So conflicted and sad.

[Sweetplum]

I thought I would write here as I'm having trouble finding a good outlet to express my feelings on our decision to possibly have a third child. A bit of background on me...I'm 40, healthy and fit, professional mom (work as an Architect 6 hours a day / 5 days a week and I love it). We have two awesome boys. After our second son we had some serious health issues with one of our kids, once the hard times were over, hubby got a vasectomy as it scared us going through such a low point. It's been a year since the V and I'm feeling really depressed....I started feeling sad a few days after he was snipped and it hasn't let up for the past year.

My husband is tired of hearing me talk about my struggles and at this point I really want him to have a V reversal and just let nature takes it course to see if we are 'meant to have' a thrid child. He's entertaining the idea and we have appts set up with OB, Urologist and IVF dr in the next few weeks.

That said - I'm not sure moving forward with all this is smart. If I think with my head it's not. If I feel with my heart it is (I'm aching for a third baby and in particular a girl).

Below are the factors I'm considering....If anyone has insights, support, advice, anecdotes I would love to hear.
Thank you!

1. We have two beautiful boys but my pregnancies were both difficult and I have had two c sections so I worry about a third pregnancy and the toll it would take on me.
2. Hubby has a Vasectomy (obviously a huge factor).
3. Our oldest son is going to be entering Kindergarten soon. My husband and I have our hearts set on an amazing private school. We toured it last night and I was blown away by the teachers, program, students and facilities. Giving our sons an opportunity to attend this school would truly be life-changing. BUT - it's $25,000/year per kid. If we have a third child it would be 100% out of the question as we would already be scraping by with that huge tuition. Do we sacrifice our boys future for a third child?
4. My career is just taking off after a 5 year slow down with babies, nursing, pregnancies. I was just promoted in our small firm to leadership position. I don't know if I want to take a step back as I love what I do.
5. BUT - the bottom line is that I feel so sad and depressed about the thought of not having one more child, of going through this amazing experience one last time.
6. AND - I feel sad about not having a daughter to raise. I love my sons beyond belief but I can't help feel sad about this.
7. Oh and I'm 40....my window is closing fast, if not closed already.
8. I don't feel done. I want the late nights nursing, the diapers and stroller rides and all that again. I don't feel the way a lot of my friends did when they 'knew they were done'.
9. I think I would be bummed out with another boy. I hate myself for writing this as it seems so awful and I know I would LOVE him to peices but I feel like I can be honest about this feeling on this forum. I worry about making all this effort and feeling even more sad.
10. I feel guilty for not being able to decide. I'm usually very decisive and logical...I feel bad about not being able to be strong and clear with my thoughts.

[Boom]

It sounds like a lot to weigh up. I don't envy your struggle but I'm sure in your heart you will find the 'right' answer.
I just wanted to chip in with 2 comments:
1: not being able to send your boys to private school is not necessarily 'sacrificing' their future. Plenty of kids do just fine in state school so don't feel bad about that part of the decision making and
2: if you are considering IVF anyway, your hubby doesn't have to have the reversal done. If you have the reversal, it can take up to 2 yrs for it to be known if it really worked or not and then you would have to do the ivf route anyway. And if he did have it reversed and you have a boy, then how will you feel about more after that? Or will he want to have the op again?!

[nuthinbutpink]

I would go HT to guarantee a girl. You're going to give up a lot to have a third child. I would only do that if you can have a girl.

[nuthinbutpink]

#9 says everything. You can do IVF with a TESA or MESA procedure. No need for reversal.

[maidentomother]

^^^Great point.

1. Is it possible you could VBAC? What difficulties did you have with your pregnancies?

2. Would you/your husband be able to homeschool or want to?

3. Is there no way you could potentially private school 3 kids? Even if you don't have the money now, could you have it somehow in the future? Would grandparents be able to pitch in or close friends? (I would absolutely help fund my good friend's education, I set up trust funds for my best friend's boys at birth.)

4. Would you consider Donor Embryo? That would be your cheapest option of assuring a daughter.

[sunnygirl]

When I was was deciding to have a third I thought, " when my career is over and I'm old, what will I regret?". Then I thought, "no one in their old age has ever thought, "I shouldn't have had more kids" It would be more likely to be, "I should have had another child/more children" it's so much hard work and sacrifice, but it's what remains after all the other stuff passes away. I hope you and your hubby can find the right solution for you guys. Some great advice some of the girls are giving too x

[Sweetplum]

Thank you all for the insights and comments.
I'm one of these women who is so driven and successful on one hand but deep in my heart I think about what my life would be like when I'm 95 and laying on my death bed and I absolutely know that family, love and friendship are so much more important than career etc.

BUT - I also adore my colleagues and find so much love and support from them. I want a little girl so desperately but I'm also thriving in my career (and life) and I love the idea of having our family of four be able to do the private school thing, buy a very nice home and take wonderful vacations. I know it sounds petty and superficial, but I do like nice things too and I want to give my two awesome boys opportunities to travel and grow (which I do believe cost $). My husband likes nice things too - he likes the idea of us being able to sit back now and enjoy all the hard work we both put in both academically and financially to get where we are.

I do agree the IVF/PGD is the way to go but I'm just not sure how I feel about this. What is TESA or MESA?

To answer madientomother's questions....
1. I would LOVE to VBAC. The thought of it brings me to tears actually. I had desperately wanted vaginal births (I was planning on water births at a birth center) for both my boys but I have a serious autoimmune issue with both pregnancies that were very scary. With my first my water broke and was not detected for two weeks and so when I was 41 weeks he had NO fluid left and was in serious distress. I made the conscious choice to give birth via C section to prevent complications for him....I was fully awake and nursed him while they were sewing me up. With my second. Well I don't want to go into it as it is very emotional but things did not go well with the pregnancy and they had to have a team of doctors there when he was born to make sure he was OK. They scheduled the C section to have all the specialists there....I was hoping for a VBAC for him up until a few weeks before he was due when they told me that it really was important for his health that everyone knew when he was coming. It was a very hard time for us. I am meeting with my OB at the end of this month and I'll ask her this question. I think a lot of my sadness is that I've never been able to go through the 'birthing process' when I feel this is a right of passage as a woman. I would love to have this but I feel so old and I feel it's so risky.
2. No. DH and I are both Architects with very full careers and we send our boys to an incredible Montessori school. We both feel it's important for the boys to learn from educators other than us.
3. Possibly. My family has the resources but they are not as on board with private school as we are.
4. I don't think I would do the donor route. Both DH and I would like to see what a girl of our own would be like.

nuthinbutpink. I agree with you 100%.
sunnygirl. I also agree with you 100%.
Boom. You are right about the reversal...this is what I'm struggling with. But it is so much cheaper and more fun!

Anyway. I should go. I'm going to drink some wine (white as I've heard this sways girl just in case) and think more. Ultimately I feel I need to let the universe decide - I just wish we hadn't gone through with the snip and we could have fun finding out!
Thank you all so much, I cannot talk about this with friends so this helps a lot.
Sweetplum

[maidentomother]

I had this hunch it was a Montessori school...that is where I will likely send my kids. I would like to homeschool for at least a few years, how long dependent on each child and my overall situation. If they want to, i would like for my kids to go to the prep school I attended in the US (boarding school), as it was the best time of my life, that would be just for high school. If I don't homeschool up to HS, then probably I will send them to the local Montessori school or possibly the French/German/English trilingual private Catholic school (although I'm Jewish so not crazy about the religious aspect). Education is soooo important to me! I could never send my kids to public school if I had the option for private and fully admit to being elitist!

Does your Montessori school offer scholarships? Are there any other good, cheaper private schools with similar philosophies/approaches in the area (though I know Montessori is very special, and IMO the best, maybe Waldorf or Friend's School etc)? Maybe you can find a scholastic compromise. And I would seriously discuss the finance issue with anyone who might be willing to help you out.

It sounds like you have a very strong desire for another child especially a daughter. Does your autoimmune condition basically ensure complications in pregnancy? Or is there a good chance you could have a simpler pregnancy? I can understand your longing for your desired birth (I want a home water birth), too, and it would be nice for you to have that if possible.

I think you should at least get CD3 pretesting done and see how good of an IVF candidate you are. If your results are really bad, maybe try swaying or consider being done. If your results are great...I'd probably advise you to go IVF for a girl, if you think you will always wish you'd had a daughter.

Good luck!

[Boom]

TESA and MESA are procedures where the sperm are removed from your husbands testes without a vasectomy reversal. It is done under GA and they usually get enough for several IVF cycles

[Zenzazoo]

Hi-
I see we have a lot more in common than I knew about. I also have work to consider but have decided to see what happens in that front. Currently I am in a great position but it is also very stressful. They have been awesome to let me bring my baby to work and he has been there since 4 weeks. I am lucky enough to have an adopted grandma come every Wed to help with him. Now that he is bigger and more active, my husband comes and gets him after his nap and I work from home on Mondays. Not sure if where you work has that type of flexibility but my co-workers and the clients love interacting with the baby. Kids are really a good therapy. I am fortunate that way but I really don't know how it will be when I say I have another one coming. ��. Might be pushing it a bit.

[Kalea]

IVF may not be "fun" but if you want a girl with a vasectomy it is your best chance. Even with IVF at 40 getting a girl could take multiple times and the $ to go along with it. I'm 40..my husband has a vasectomy. We got 11 eggs and 1 normal male embryo. I was going for a girl. I would need to do another costly round and could still end up with poor results. I have 3 boys and because I do want a baby with this husband and I love boys I'm going to try to transfer the boy. However if I were to do it again I would really consider donor eggs. Oh and you want to freeze your husband's sperm cuz he will never want to let them touch his balls again.

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[Sweetplum]

Hi-
I see we have a lot more in common than I knew about. I also have work to consider but have decided to see what happens in that front. Currently I am in a great position but it is also very stressful. They have been awesome to let me bring my baby to work and he has been there since 4 weeks. I am lucky enough to have an adopted grandma come every Wed to help with him. Now that he is bigger and more active, my husband comes and gets him after his nap and I work from home on Mondays. Not sure if where you work has that type of flexibility but my co-workers and the clients love interacting with the baby. Kids are really a good therapy. I am fortunate that way but I really don't know how it will be when I say I have another one coming. ��. Might be pushing it a bit.

I totally know how you feel about pushing it. We really do have a lot in common!

Unfortunately I work in a design firm that has clients in throughout the day, that said, it's small and really laid back so we all bring our older kids (ages 6+) in when they are off school. It would all work itself out I know, it's just so much to think about :)

[Sweetplum]

IVF may not be "fun" but if you want a girl with a vasectomy it is your best chance. Even with IVF at 40 getting a girl could take multiple times and the $ to go along with it. I'm 40..my husband has a vasectomy. We got 11 eggs and 1 normal male embryo. I was going for a girl. I would need to do another costly round and could still end up with poor results. I have 3 boys and because I do want a baby with this husband and I love boys I'm going to try to transfer the boy. However if I were to do it again I would really consider donor eggs. Oh and you want to freeze your husband's sperm cuz he will never want to let them touch his balls again.

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This is really great advice. I wish you the best. I wonder what I would do in your position and I kinda feel like if there was one healthy egg and it was a boy I would transfer it too. Something about the thought of this little person just waiting to be born. Keep me posted.

[Sweetplum]

Hi-
I see we have a lot more in common than I knew about. I also have work to consider but have decided to see what happens in that front. Currently I am in a great position but it is also very stressful. They have been awesome to let me bring my baby to work and he has been there since 4 weeks. I am lucky enough to have an adopted grandma come every Wed to help with him. Now that he is bigger and more active, my husband comes and gets him after his nap and I work from home on Mondays. Not sure if where you work has that type of flexibility but my co-workers and the clients love interacting with the baby. Kids are really a good therapy. I am fortunate that way but I really don't know how it will be when I say I have another one coming. ��. Might be pushing it a bit.

I swear I just responded to this but it's not showing up! Anyway - I feel for you. We are very much in the same boat!

[more pink]

Bottom line advise GO for it GO and get your little girl!
Every thing can wait if you keep postponing you will end up waiting for a granddaughter ;)
40 is not too late for a third baby :)
Best wishes for a wee girl ♡♡

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[Sweetplum]

All. Thank you so much for the comments. DH and I talked a lot this weekend. Here is what we realized:
1. Private school is not very important to DH. He would rather send kids to public school and have extra $ for travel, etc.
2. DH is fine with two boys but he is open to third child, and he doesn't care if it's a boy or girl. He'd prefer a girl for novelty, but doesn't really care.
3. We both are intrigued by the idea of PGD but feel there are too many roadblocks with my age. Those being : a. at age 40 there is only one clinic near us that would do PGD, and they require you to donate any unused healthy embryos (you cannot transfer them at other points in your cycle). We both are a bit uncomfortable with the idea of creating a bunch of embryos and then having them in a lab somewhere or donating them (even though I know this would be wonderful for some family). DH said he would have huge regrets if he knew there was an unborn child of ours out there, I can understand him feeling this way. b. The amount of procedures seems like a lot for me with my career and our current schedule. I honestly don't want to be at the dr. that much. c. The expense. d. My timeline at 40 is limited and my odds for IVF are not great. So we basically have come to terms with the fact that IVF is not a good option for us. That leaves us with two choices:

1. Stick with a wonderful little family of four.
2. Go for the VR and accept the 50/50 chance of a boy or a girl being added to our family.

Right now I am still leaning towards the VR and coming to terms with the fact that ultimately I can attempt a sway but the universe will decide.
Thank you again for the notes back and all the insights, I look forward to hearing all your thoughts and will keep in touch as we meet with my OB and urologist to see how this whole decision unfolds :)

Have a wonderful week ladies.
Sweetplum.

[WannaGirl]

Good luck, I hope you do get the VR and s daughter but hey, we got a third boy and he is the most loving, sweet, adorable child I've decided it doesn't matter and I'll just spoil the other girls in my life (all my closest friends have a daughter or two it's very hard to think about that when I am the only one who had a preference!!! Karma??) the HT didn't work for us and I was sure it wasn't meant to be

[Sweetplum]

Good luck, I hope you do get the VR and s daughter but hey, we got a third boy and he is the most loving, sweet, adorable child I've decided it doesn't matter and I'll just spoil the other girls in my life (all my closest friends have a daughter or two it's very hard to think about that when I am the only one who had a preference!!! Karma??) the HT didn't work for us and I was sure it wasn't meant to be

I love this. I know if we have a third son it would be amazing, despite my longing for a female in the house. When I was a young girl I always told my friends and family that I wanted to be a mom of three boys....there is something so sweet about it. Congrats to you and your beautiful family.

[Wantanother2017]

In an ideal situation you could have a surrogate carry your little girl! No health/age related issues for you. However, mostly out of reach for most people I know.
Have you ever considered adoption? I know that decision is deeply personal, however it could be a viable option as it would displace all of the health risks for you and assure the gender of your choice. As well as make one little girl amazingly lucky. Just a thought.
Good luck in whatever you decide. This must be such a hard place to be in.

[pinkfairydust]

I hope this isn't bad advice but I personally think that it sounds like you have a lovely life at the moment and that you should think about leaving things as they are (as you already have been)

Whilst I know people don't think about their careers on their death bed...if you are happy at work and have nice colleagues and good prospects that's a huge contributor to overall happiness and shouldn't be downplayed. Your happiness at work will benefit your relationship with your husband and 2 boys.

Having said that I would find it hard to take my own advice in your position. But it really does sound like you are very content with everything you have going on and the benefits for your family of continuing down this path are huge.

Good luck with it all x

[Sweetplum]

In an ideal situation you could have a surrogate carry your little girl! No health/age related issues for you. However, mostly out of reach for most people I know.
Have you ever considered adoption? I know that decision is deeply personal, however it could be a viable option as it would displace all of the health risks for you and assure the gender of your choice. As well as make one little girl amazingly lucky. Just a thought.
Good luck in whatever you decide. This must be such a hard place to be in.

Thank you for the comment and thoughts Wantanother2017. We could afford a surrogate but honestly I want to carry another child, nurse another child and go through this again despite the difficulty for me. I know it sounds crazy...

Adoption would be wonderful and we've discussed this quite a bit too. Unfortunately I don't think it would be a good decision for us right now since our boys are so young (2/4) and I'm wary of adopting a child in between or older than them.

We will get through it, I appreciate everyone's notes so much.

[Sweetplum]

I hope this isn't bad advice but I personally think that it sounds like you have a lovely life at the moment and that you should think about leaving things as they are (as you already have been)

Whilst I know people don't think about their careers on their death bed...if you are happy at work and have nice colleagues and good prospects that's a huge contributor to overall happiness and shouldn't be downplayed. Your happiness at work will benefit your relationship with your husband and 2 boys.

Having said that I would find it hard to take my own advice in your position. But it really does sound like you are very content with everything you have going on and the benefits for your family of continuing down this path are huge.

Good luck with it all x

Pinkfairydust. I REALLY appreciate the honesty. You hit on the crux of the issue for us. Our life DOES feel complete, it's happy and fullfilling and I actually LOVE being a mom to boys. It's just that both my sister in laws are pregnant now with girls (both due this summer), my best friend is pregnant with twin (identical) girls, my neighbor just had a baby girl last week and my cousin is having a baby girl next month and well, I'm immersed in a world of baby girls and I feel sad I'll miss out on this....I had never thought of being a girls mom and now I'm feeling like the door is shutting on my chance and will I regret not giving it a shot.

I also feel that the vasectomy was a decision we made because I was older, we had gone through hard health issues and I had in my mind that "Doing this vasectomy will help me move on and just enjoy life instead of thinking of more babies". Well, that BACKFIRED. The vasectomy has shut the door physically but it's opened up a huge can of worms emotionally for me....it's made me feel depressed that we can't even just 'try' casually if we wanted to.

Just so you all know...my husband seems to be more supportive than I originally thought. He said if we do the VR he plans to sway with me (he understands the desire for a girl) and will do anything it takes to be healthy and prepared for a pregnancy and baby. He is a really good man and I am also considering his position in all this. I feel bad that our decision didn't help us move forward as I was anticipating and I really appreciate that he's listening to me and helping me through this process where ever it may lead us. I know ultimately I'll be happy no matter what once I allow myself to feel all the emotions necessary to move forward.

Thank you so much for this note, it brought up a lot of feelings.
Sweetplum.

[maidentomother]

It does sound like if the pinksplosion among your friends & family hadn't happened or even that once it passes, you would and will be content with your 2 boys and life overall. And I definitely think the (at very least seemingly) extreme 'finality' of the vasectomy could be a huge factor in how conflicted you're feeling.

If neither of those 2 things had happened, let alone BOTH, how differently do you think you'd feel? Obviously you can't help being affected by these circumstances nor can you live in a vacuum but consider the fact that acknowledging their effect may improve how you perceive things, bc you can choose how (to want) to feel to some extent. I think your life sounds pretty awesome FWIW!

[Sweetplum]

It does sound like if the pinksplosion among your friends & family hadn't happened or even that once it passes, you would and will be content with your 2 boys and life overall. And I definitely think the (at very least seemingly) extreme 'finality' of the vasectomy could be a huge factor in how conflicted you're feeling.

If neither of those 2 things had happened, let alone BOTH, how differently do you think you'd feel? Obviously you can't help being affected by these circumstances nor can you live in a vacuum but consider the fact that acknowledging their effect may improve how you perceive things, bc you can choose how (to want) to feel to some extent. I think your life sounds pretty awesome FWIW!

madientomother...this is again right on the nose. The thoughts in my head related to all the baby girls being born and the fact that "I 100% can't try even if I wanted to" is probably causing me more angst than the reality that I don't have a girl/can't get pregnant. I honestly feel like I'm in the midst of a big 'awakening/breakdown' - it probably is a mid-life crisis even though I don't think that is the right term....I'm sure it looks like that to you all reading (there is no way I could discuss this with family)...Three of my girlfriends know and I think they can sympathize a bit as they are older moms too....but I still feel a little breakdowny.....

I don't want to go back in time and change anything, I don't feel like I've missed out, I'm not scared of death, I'm not afraid of getting older...I'm just feeling like I'm REALLY going to miss the birth/nursing/baby phase and I feel a bit slighted as mine were so incredibly difficult despite the fact that I tried to educate and take care of my babies and myself so well...I feel like I want one more shot at it and would like a girl if possible. Just to close out this phase. I don't FEEL done even if the universe (and everyone in it) is telling me I am. I realize there are no guarantees and another go could result in the hardest pregnancy/birth/health stuff of all....but I can't help but dream it wouldn't be. It's almost like this fantasy world I'm living in when I escape and think about it (and browse online for girl stuff).

The problem with this struggle is I'm feeling selfish too. My husband is just going with my flow (which I realize is not really a flow but a crazy scribble right now) and I don't want to do anything that would negatively impact the awesome vibe we have with the boys. I don't think a third child would ultimately be bad for them, but it could create stress for them at times when they may need some extra love (starting elementary school....).

Current Emotion: I am feeling in my heart that maybe hubby should just get the VR (with the intention that this would be final and I could use pill or something until menopause) so that I we could try casually and see what the universe would decide for us.

Is that a cop out? To not make the decision really? Is that an awful way to approach such a huge decision?

I don't know.

But what I do know now at this point in the process:
1. I definitely don't want to force the VR and then get all stressed about TTC just to have it not work out.
2. I do think I would have lingering regret if he didn't reverse the V and we didn't give it one last shot.
3. IVF/PGD (although sounding so amazing on paper and an incredible option for so many) isn't for me (us).

I feel so wishy washy and blah. Not me. But in a way it kinda feels good. I was reading Brene Brown last night (The gift of imperfection) and she was talking about living "Wholeheartedly" which has a lot to do with just having 'faith' and trust in the universe. That has always been a struggle for me and I'm really feeling like this whole "awakening/breakdown" I'm experience is ultimately about me going through a process to come to terms and settle into a more mature version of myself...whether or not I happen to do this with a new baby is TBD I guess....

Sorry for the long musing/rant. Writing is really therapeutic. I'm glad I found a place to express stuff without judgement.
Sweetplum.

[maidentomother]

I definitely wouldn't call it a mid-life crisis, more of a 'period of reflection' and 'awareness of the mother/pregnancy stage of life ending' that were at least partially externally triggered,

I understand leaving it up to the universe, so to speak and I absolutely don't think that's a bad or weak decision. I actually think it reflects a lot of strength. Faith and acceptance are very much rooted in strength IMO. Especially for those of us for whom letting go of control doesn't come easily!

From my perspective you've made clear progress in your thinking, so I don't think you give yourself enough credit. <3

[Sweetplum]

I definitely wouldn't call it a mid-life crisis, more of a 'period of reflection' and 'awareness of the mother/pregnancy stage of life ending' that were at least partially externally triggered,

I understand leaving it up to the universe, so to speak and I absolutely don't think that's a bad or weak decision. I actually think it reflects a lot of strength. Faith and acceptance are very much rooted in strength IMO. Especially for those of us for whom letting go of control doesn't come easily!

From my perspective you've made clear progress in your thinking, so I don't think you give yourself enough credit. <3

Thanks so much for the vote of confidence. I'm meeting with my OB on Tuesday and we will see what she says on a third pregnancy.

I really don't want to be the one to make the call, wish she could just tell me "go for it and it will all be great" but I know that it's going to be more like "sure you can try for a third baby but it probably will be really risky" and then what do I do? Gamble with my health and future baby health? It could go great though and I really want to take a shot.

Hubby seems much more open to the idea of a VR to the point where he said "We're going to do this aren't we?" on Friday night when we were chatting/watching movies/drinking wine And I just started balling. Only for the reason that he's so willing to do ANYTHING to make me happy and listen to my feelings. No matter what goes down, I feel more in love with him than ever...this whole thing is bringing us close, when I know it could easily go the other direction...thankful for that.

Feeling kinda low and depressed this morning despite the fact that I'm having an incredible weekend with DH and the boys, watching them play and enjoy eachother so much and the incredible sweetness of a 2 year old and 4 year old. Wishing we could add another to the mix but that dream seems so impossible right now. Our friends came over last night with their three kids (two are the same age as ours and they have a 4 month old baby)...they asked "What are you guys thinking about three?", I just looked at my DH and he says "It's complicated" and smiles. It is, but like I said, at least we are on the same page.

DH has also already come up with these ridiculous jokes he plans to tell his buddies who know he had the Vasectomy if I was to get pregnant. I can't mention them here as they are NOT PC but pretty hilarious and I love the fact that he sees the humor and the absurdity in us making this decision and changing our minds a few months later.

On a good note, I've lost 5+ lbs since the beginning of the year. Just not super hungry really and eating the LE diet suits me right now...feeling low and it feeds my sadness a bit.

[maidentomother]

Your DH sounds amazing and I really want to hear his jokes!

[Dreamsister]

Just want to say hello and welcome. My comment: Go ahead and become our swaying buddy. You got pg with your boys very easily so you are probably still very fertile. I have done ivf/pgd 1 attempt at the age of 40 and realised that it was too expensive and too diffucult to succed with this method - and I realised that I don't want a daughter that badly that I wanted to go through that process.
Re gender: Do your best to sway hard for a pink bean, but don't worry if you get a boy. Having 3 sons is fabulous.


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[Sweetplum]

Just want to say hello and welcome. My comment: Go ahead and become our swaying buddy. You got pg with your boys very easily so you are probably still very fertile. I have done ivf/pgd 1 attempt at the age of 40 and realised that it was too expensive and too diffucult to succed with this method - and I realised that I don't want a daughter that badly that I wanted to go through that process.
Re gender: Do your best to sway hard for a pink bean, but don't worry if you get a boy. Having 3 sons is fabulous.


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Thank you for this note :)

[Sweetplum]

Just go a big thumbs up from my OB. I was a bit shocked. She said she wasn't worried at all with a third pregnancy for me. Internal C-section scarring was almost non existant (she's done both of them for me), she's confident they can manage my autoimmune issues, the health issues with my kids were flukes and have totally resolved. Biggest issue for me is my age and she went through testing we can do and is going to do 2 blood tests to take a look at my "ovarian reserves". Did first blood test today, will do the second one on the third day of my next period. I think the test results will give us more direction.

She wasn't really phased by Vasectomy issue either, she seemed to sympathize with my desire to just reverse and 'leave it up to fate' until I'm 42 or so.

Feeling truly hopeful for the first time in months.

Sweetplum

PS. When I was in the lab getting blood test done there was a first time mom with her 2 month old daughter. I'm not one to go goo-goo over babies that are not mine, but the baby was very very cute and seeing her fumble around with a crying newborn didn't phase me or turn me off which I think is a good sign ;)

[more pink]

Great news best wishes for a successful pregnancy and a pink bean :-)

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[Dreamsister]

Great news. So happy for you. You are now in process. Go for it [emoji106]


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[Boom]

Have you researched vasectomy reversal success rates?

[Sweetplum]

Have you researched vasectomy reversal success rates?

Great question. We are meeting with urologist next week. The V is only 13 months old so I'm guessing my age is a bigger factor than the reversal but we will get more info next week.
My OB seems to feel that my health is fine, my egg supply is fine (although old) and my DH seems to not be excessively resistant to talking about a reversal.

Honestly, I feel deeply sorry that we did the V in the first place. We should have waited. There was so much going on when we did it and even though I was very unsure but I didn't want to derail the train so I let it go. This is a life lesson I would have preferred to have not learned the hard way (I should have listened to my girl friend who told me to think about it more) and I wish DH and I could just let nature take it's course instead of me feeling awful about the V.

I will update after the Urologist appt. i'm guessing the stats for DH as a 36 year old with only 13 months in and no issues are good but we shall see.

[Sweetplum]

Great news. So happy for you. You are now in process. Go for it [emoji106]


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I want to. If it's the right thing to do. Believe me. Do you have a 'group' of some sort I can join for support if we decide to take the leap?

[bigbump]

Hi Sweetplum
I hope you don't mind me jumping in late. I have just joined this site and am reading around and your post stood out. It stood out because we have some similarities. So your soul searching sounds very like my own at the moment.

Like you, I have 2 boys and am 40 years old. However my youngest is only 7 months old. I love my boys very much but honestly, I am really struggling with the fact that I won't have a daughter. For whatever reasons it seems that having a female child is massively important to me and I am in the strange place of being so in love with my boys but yet gutted to not have a girl. I too have a lovely life, a loving husband, and I have lots of be thankful for, but I am not in a great place.

I have spent the last year (since I found out my 2nd was a boy at the 20 week scan) trying to get myself into a positive place about my family make up, with some success. However this week my sister (I am 1 of 3 sisters) has announced she is pregnant with a girl. My other sister had a girl a year ago. So maybe like you I am questioning if I am 'done'. I have friends who are 'done' and are so happy with that decision, but I'm not there.

Unlike you my husband isn't so on board. He is 12 years older than me and already had a son and 2 daughters before we met. That obviously complicates things and I have struggled with him having daughters with someone else very much. I love my stepkids (2 are adults) but the relationship I have with them doesn't assuage my desire for my own children. I had to convince him into having our 2nd baby and obviously he is now OLD to be having babies so that's a factor too.

I'm just very conflicted. I don't know how to give up on my dream of a daughter. I have been looking at pgd but the odds at my age are awful. I could sway but honestly I am deep down after a daughter. I'm struggling with giving 'her' up, although two children is better, simpler and easier for us, with the logistics of step children too, in so many ways.

Im really pleased you have reached your decision. Do you think if you were in my situation you would have reached another? I think I need to really decide what I want to do before I can focus on getting my head around whatever that decision is, but then there's my husband too. I genuinely wish I didn't care. I used to be so happy. If anyone has any advice on coming to terms with a family picture they didn't envision I'd really appreciate that too. I know I probably sound really selfish. Thanks for reading.

[1moregirl]

Big bump - I am in a different situation again to yourself. I just wanted to say that no way are you being selfish. I am sure it is every woman's natural desire to have at least one baby girl to cherish, not that we don't cherish our baby boys either. I totally understand where you are coming from. I had my last baby 2 months before I turned 41 (a boy) so it is possible for anyone else as well. Have you had a deep discussion with your DH about your desire for a daughter of your own? Surely he would have to understand it from your point of view. Perhaps you could both come to some sort of compromise where he doesn't have to get up to the baby during the night, for example? Maybe if you could get your DH on board you could do a high tech girl sway with Atomic's help? Sorry if I'm not too helpful here. Just wanted to say I understand and that you are def no selfish. Others like myself who are wanted a sister for a daughter they have already could perhaps be called selfish but certainly not yourself (hope I don't offend anyone with that last comment. Certainly not meaning too.)

[atomic sagebrush]

I find that when the door is REALLY, TRULY closed it gets easier for people.

There is something about the possibility that is tortuous.

I have seen tons of women who started this journey with me, NOT get their DG and just make the decision to move on with their lives and they all seem to be having way more fun than I am. They post pictures of themselves with their husbands drinking margaritas on vacation in Hawaii, and it looks great.

I have a DD and I'm happy of course but it isn't this trancendent experience that changes everything.

[1moregirl]

That's sooo true Atomic. It's all such a personal thing isn't it? I mean, I have friends in their mid 30s who are settled and don't want any more kids - one has 2 boys and another has 2 girls, and they couldn't be happier. Isn't it interesting?

[bigbump]

Thanks 1moregirl. I don't think you are selfish either. The heart wants what the heart wants. Having had two boys I think my ideal would be two of each! I'm glad I had my boys bc they have taught me how fab and fun boys are, which I hadn't learned from my exclusively female upbringing. So I do consider myself lucky to have learned that lesson.

Ironically after typing this yesterday my sister text me last night (the one preg with her 1st girl after 2 boys) she asked me if I was ok and was just so sweet. She told me I was the first person she thought of when she was in the scan and found out. That made me feel pretty bad. She shouldn't be worrying about me. She should be enjoying every second and celebrating. It set me off being very upset which opened up the conversation again with my hb. I think he might be open to going HT. Just one go to know we tried. I need to look into it some more but at my age it might be pointless. It actually really helped just knowing he cared about me enough to even discuss it. That doesn't necessarily make it the right decision tho.

I agree with you Atomic. It's uncertainty which is so hard. I envy those women who have found their peace. I wish I was there. Maybe this questioning is just part of that process.

Thanks so much for your replies ladies.

[atomic sagebrush]

Would you consider donor eggs, BB??

[bigbump]

I don't know Atomic. As I learn more I see the success rates are much higher. A lot of my fantasy is about having a mini me so I guess the genetic bit is important to me, but obviously the experiences and potential relationship are more important. So perhaps. I wondered if I could do 1 round with my own eggs, and if (when) it failed, do a donor egg round. Then that would have to be it. Have you ever heard of a 40 year old OHW?

[Babygirlquest]

.

[bigbump]

So put in 1 of each? Then if 1 stuck, you wouldn't know which...but if both did one would be yours and 1 would be from the donor egg, they'd be twins but half siblings? Wow! And I thought my family was already complicated! �� Is that a common choice babygirlquest?

[Babygirlquest]

.

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't know Atomic. As I learn more I see the success rates are much higher. A lot of my fantasy is about having a mini me so I guess the genetic bit is important to me, but obviously the experiences and potential relationship are more important. So perhaps. I wondered if I could do 1 round with my own eggs, and if (when) it failed, do a donor egg round. Then that would have to be it. Have you ever heard of a 40 year old OHW?

If you look up Jany1025's posts http://genderdreaming.com/forum/members/jany1025.html she did have success later on (although her journey has been a very long one.) I don't know that she was in her 40's though??

Just giving it to you straight here - I would buy a lottery ticket instead of expecting to be a OHW at 40.

I think egg donors are going to be by far and away your best bet. I understand the temptation to want a minime but in reality even when you get a DD naturally there's no guarantee of that. My daughter looks just like my husband (has same coloring as me but I could have got that from an egg donor) And my stepcousin's daughter looks like her mother in law (it's really crazy because my stepcousin is Mexican with black hair and dark skin, and her daughter is blonde and blue eyed.)

[1moregirl]

What is OHW ladies? Pardon my ignorance. ;)

[XXforhubby]

What is OHW ladies? Pardon my ignorance. ;)

One hit wonder = getting pregnant first cycle without much effort


[emoji170]DS1[emoji1379], DS2[emoji577], & DS3[emoji602] completes our family![emoji170]

[Jany1025]

If you look up Jany1025's posts http://genderdreaming.com/forum/members/jany1025.html she did have success later on (although her journey has been a very long one.) I don't know that she was in her 40's though??

Just giving it to you straight here - I would buy a lottery ticket instead of expecting to be a OHW at 40.

I think egg donors are going to be by far and away your best bet. I understand the temptation to want a minime but in reality even when you get a DD naturally there's no guarantee of that. My daughter looks just like my husband (has same coloring as me but I could have got that from an egg donor) And my stepcousin's daughter looks like her mother in law (it's really crazy because my stepcousin is Mexican with black hair and dark skin, and her daughter is blonde and blue eyed.)

Yes a million cycles in my late 30's I always said my stopping point is 40 no matter what I will never ever ever cycle after 40 as you might as well just open the window and just let the money fly out. But anyone who's done HT will tell you it's not that easy to stop the more you do it the closer you get you can just taste it and then you get the rug taken from under you and it's terrible!!

I had ONLY two transfers after 40, and bam 2 daughters at 40 and 42, I am now 43 with an 8 week old. I will say though I had good ovarian reserve and that's what kept me going...there are a lot of factors to consider when cycling at such an advanced age..

[1moregirl]

Well I got pregnant easily when I was 40 naturally and gave birth 2 months prior to turning 41. I've read of it happening quite a lot now - women having babies naturally in their 40s. I've also joined a Facebook page of women in their 40s having babies. Some are conceiving naturally and others are using donor eggs. And even if you do have a low ovarian reserve that doesn't mean that you can't conceive naturally.

[bigbump]

Thanks for sharing Jany. I admire your perseverance and determination. Your girls are gorgeous!

Thanks for your honesty too Atomic and your story 1moregirl. I think I would do donor eggs but my husband is totally against it. I won't get into the irony as he had 3 kids before meeting me that I already care for and they aren't genetically mine either! However, he is totally just considering all of this for me and I am blown over that he would even contemplate a third child with me at our ages and in our circumstances so I have to respect his thoughts. Just because he is considering it doesn't make it the right thing to do. If it were legal here and I could fit it in around my life more perhaps I would try 1/2 times to know if tried but to head off to the US would be £40K to go twice and that's totally unfeasable.

This is so hard. I feel as if the only realistic thing to do is to try and find some peace and forget about having a daughter. But I just don't know how.

[more pink]

Thanks for sharing Jany. I admire your perseverance and determination. Your girls are gorgeous!

Thanks for your honesty too Atomic and your story 1moregirl. I think I would do donor eggs but my husband is totally against it. I won't get into the irony as he had 3 kids before meeting me that I already care for and they aren't genetically mine either! However, he is totally just considering all of this for me and I am blown over that he would even contemplate a third child with me at our ages and in our circumstances so I have to respect his thoughts. Just because he is considering it doesn't make it the right thing to do. If it were legal here and I could fit it in around my life more perhaps I would try 1/2 times to know if tried but to head off to the US would be £40K to go twice and that's totally unfeasable.

This is so hard. I feel as if the only realistic thing to do is to try and find some peace and forget about having a daughter. But I just don't know how.
Would you give swaying a good shot [emoji166] and hope you'll get your little girl[emoji176]

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[bigbump]

I just don't know. I've seen so many failed sways. And much as a third son would of course be very much loved, the void I feel is for a daughter. I am still breastfeeding my baby anyway so I have some time to decide. But not much, being so flipping ancient ��

[more pink]

40 is the new 20 ;-) you still have time I've read some pretty good sways for girls it can still happen ♡♡ I hope it'll be you next :-)

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[bigbump]

Thank you. That means a lot. I feel pretty lonely in this. X

[more pink]

We're here to support you I really pray you find peace and happiness in whatever decision you make :-)

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[atomic sagebrush]

Well I got pregnant easily when I was 40 naturally and gave birth 2 months prior to turning 41. I've read of it happening quite a lot now - women having babies naturally in their 40s. I've also joined a Facebook page of women in their 40s having babies. Some are conceiving naturally and others are using donor eggs. And even if you do have a low ovarian reserve that doesn't mean that you can't conceive naturally.

But we're not talking about conceiving naturally, we are talking about doing IVF/PGD and that is just not good results at 40. Not only are way, way less eggs retrieved, they're more likely to be abnormals, end in miscarriage, and with PGD for gender you lose half of them because they're the wrong gender right from the get go. And that first cycle can be almost a practice cycle anyway because often even young women don't conceive from the first one, the doctor many times needs time to tweak the medication to see what you respond best to.

I got my daughter at 42 and I am not trying to deter anyone from TTC naturally over 40. But unless a person has unlimited financial resources, ya may as well light a pile of money on fire and dance around it naked while praying for a baby girl to descend from the heavens on a cloud of pink glitter as expect to get pregnant from one cycle over 40 using your own eggs. It can happen but I would certainly not bank on it!

[atomic sagebrush]

We're here to support you I really pray you find peace and happiness in whatever decision you make :-)

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:agree: THIS!! :)

[bigbump]

Ok, I hear ya Atomic! I only asked if anyone had ever heard of a 40 year old OHW, I don't think I'm under any illusions! And if I was in certainly not now!!! I might try the dance thing tho ;)

[more pink]

:agree: THIS!! :)
You're the greatest support here for sure[emoji12]

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[ever hopeful]

I had 3 of my 4 children over 40.......and arguably (by start stats!) I was a IVF/PDG OHW at 44 but sadly m/c at 9 weeks (it was only a FISH tested embie though), so it can happen....I went on to do a tanden cycle and also amazingly got one healthy fully tested XX but decided to put back two (mine and a donor FISH tested embie, as had promised DH this was it and we'd walk away). I had no idea how shocking the stats were when I decided to go this route considering I had concerived my DSs so easily and naturally over 40. It was only when HRC initially refused to treat me because of age and pre-testing (Dr P subsequently agreed to after my M/C and Savvas gave me a 10% chance that the penny started to drop). Anyway, my DD was born when I was 45 and is now 2, so it can happen. However, I do think luck played a huge part in all of this, but if I hadn't of tried I'd never have known and would always wondered wtat if.....and she is the best thing that has ever happened. Good luck xxx

[coralsky]

I have been around on the HT boards for a while, and can only remember one true OHW at age 40.. so it is possible, but highly unlikely as atomic and others have described. I can think of another 2 ladies (ever hopeful included) who have been successful 2nd time round (the other one was almost 40 at the time)... there obviously may have been others too, but these are the ones I remember. It is a huge gamble at any age, but more so at 38+ and certainly 40+ (but not impossible). If you are seriously considering trying IVF/PGD with your own eggs, then you should def. plan on at least 2-3 cycles, and choose your clinic carefully. If you are on the fence about it then it might be worth spending some $ in order to get pretesting done at least, as this will give you a better idea of ovarian reserve, and therefore a better guess at your chances of success (still no guarantee though obviously, even with good test results). Good luck xx

[1moregirl]

It can and does happen. I had my first at 36, my second at 38 and my third at 40 (2months prior to turning 41). I also got pregnant first month of trying last year in June but did miscarry at 10 weeks. It definitely can happen but there may just be a extra miscarriage or two before you hit a good egg.

[atomic sagebrush]

Again, I feel like there is a hint of confusion here and just need to clarify we are NOT talking about natural conceptions, we are talking about IVF.

I would be the world's most ginormous hypocrite ever deterring anyone from TTC over 40 since I did it myself.

[bigbump]

Thank you ladies for all your input. Please don't worry Atomic, I understand 1moregirl is talking about natural conception and I understand the chances of conceiving are totally different.

I guess I am assuming that if we tried naturally again it would work, having fallen pregnant easily with both my sons aged 35 and 38. I turned 40 in December, so I am at the optimistic side of my 40s. The question is really if HT is worth a shot at all.

I am still feeding my 7 month old so I can't really test anything yet but I think I'll see how fertile I am and decide if it's worth potentially having 1/2 tries at HT, even if just to know I had a go and gave it my all. It's such a hard thing when potentially we could try natural and have a girl relatively easily. My sister is pregnant with a girl after 2 boys. My other sister had a girl last year after a boy. A mum at school just had a daughter after 2 sons. It does happen. It's a risk tho. Of course a son would be loved and cherished but it is a daughter I am dreaming of.

Ever hopeful, those are the two clinics I am looking at. How did you find them compared to each other? I must admit I never considered I wouldn't be accepted...

[bigbump]

Do the clinics consider the man's age at all or just the woman's?

[ever hopeful]

No, they don't consider men's age, as certainly wasn't mentioned to me (DH is 4 years older than me), your DH will have to do some pre-testing though......I didn't actually get to talk to Dr P initially (hadn't found this wonderful site then) just contacted HRC after coming accross them on-line and was advised by the co-ordinator that I was realistically too old to give it a shot at 44 with my own eggs - my AMH was also pretty low (age appropriate though), so I didn't pursue with US and moved to Cyprus (initially looked at North) and then found Genesis. You are younger though. Savvas was always very honest with me and gave me low odds at the outset (he doesn't with lots of people though). I think if you can afford HRC and get logistics to work I would give them a go above Genesis - cost isn't actually that different, although travel and logistics obviously are a little more complicated. Dr P's stats are great at the moment and knowing what I know now, on balance think I'd choose HRC over Genesis, despite the fact that without Savvas I wouldn't have my DD (reason I went back for a 2nd cycle to Genesis was because he had got me pg against all of the odds first time, so I thought he could do it again and at the time, there were a few no transfers at HRC - and this was my last shot). However, over 40, you really need to stop feeding asap and get your pre-testing done and, if all is ok, ideally aim to do this quickly as each month can make a difference - even if you do ER sooner and then wait a few months until you are ready to go back for a FET if you are lucky and get healthy XXs. Good luck xx

[1moregirl]

Thanks for that Atomic. I really got confused about the whole topic I think and obviously trying to just let Bigbump know that it certainly is possible to conceive naturally at 40. I didn't realise that the stats and that all the other ladies were talking about were IVF OHW. IVF is certainly out of my area so I will bow out of the discussion gracefully now and just wish Bigbump all the best of luck in being successful in getting a little girl no matter what path she embarks on to achieve it. Good luck Bigbump. :)

[bigbump]

Thanks 1moregirl and best of luck to you too. Xx

[wattle]

i am going to be in a similar situation with trying IVF/PGD close to 40 (39 probably) and also breastfeeding and not wanting to stop until i really have to. can someone advise what is the minimum time you have to have stopped breastfeeding before you can do this procedure? or is it you must stop a certain about of time before pre-testing?

[atomic sagebrush]

Wattle I think you're best off asking this in the HT forums, I am not totally sure and they'll know more accurately than me.

[coralsky]

You have to completely stop BF, wait for AF, then get pretesting done with next AF. So the actual timeframe depends on how quickly your natural cycle returns after completely stopping breastfeeding, which can be different for everyone. But baby should be a minimum of 6 months old too.

You must be completely finished with BF (and also not be on hormonal birth control) in order to have pretesting done and/or begin a IVF cycle.

Hope that helps :)