Need advice, not ovulating I think :(

[Traci25]

So I'm 40, I have 3 kids last one is 16 mo. I've been ttc girl for 4 months, but husband had been out of town working so missing a lot of bd times. Had to do 3+ Days bf ovulation. So I started using opk test the last 2 months and I have only tested once a day and it would get dark but never pos. I never had a problem concieving before so I'm new to this. Should I try one more month using opk and waiting or try the clomid route and see my ob. I have ewmc so we have tried the night I had the most but I know this month I'm out again unless divine intervention! I will try charting next month I'm just horrible at it! Has anyone had this issue???

I'm short on time and scared it may not happen :(

[1moregirl]

Hi Traci. I don't know much about not ovulating Hun sorry but have you tried using a different brand of OPKs? I know quite a few ladies (myself included) have bought cheapo ones in bulk from eBay and they just didn't work. I bought a chemist one which worked great or I've found the Clear Blue digital ovulation test (WITHOUT the dual hormone indicator) fantastic for detecting O. Another thing I do is use the Fertility Friend app on my phone to record down all my cycle details and this helps you to detect O. Plus taking your BBT helps to pinpoint O. You've still got plenty of time too by the way. I had my 3rd child when I was nearly 41 so don't give up just yet. I'm now 44 and hoping for one more (yes...I must be nuts as a few people have told me...lol). Good luck and I hope you get your little girl.

[Traci25]

I didn't know they didn't work I awesome they all would.
That gives me hope, thank you so much. I really would love this last child and I feel so blessed to have my other children. But love a dd!! I have to relax when I don't see a + opk or preg test. How long would you wait to see a me. Il add charting this month. Maybe that will give me a little more detail

[1moregirl]

I would try at least another cycle on my own before seeing a doctor or Ob if I was you. Try some different OPK test strips first, the BBTs (more accurate if you take your BbT vaginally than orally) and record it all on Fertility Friend app. You need to take BBT at same time every morning. I usually set alarm for 6.45am so I get it accurate. You mention that you are still getting CM so still sounds like you are Oing - maybe just dodgy OPK strips. Good luck.

[purple]

Are you getting your period regularly? If you are getting a period then you are probably ovulating.

The cheapie ebay OPKs are useless, you can get positives with them but it is very easy to miss them if you don't test really often. I have tried OvuPlan tests which work better and a lot of people on here like the clear blue fertility monitor ones but they are quite pricey.

I have ordered some Wondfo opk tests from Amazon which are supposed to be good but I won't know how they compare until next cycle.

[maidentomother]

What purple said. If you are getting regular periods you are almost definitely Oing.

I almost never (like 2x in 6 years) get positive OPKs, not even with proper Formosa Medical Wondfos, the best OPKs available. But I definitely O. There are a significant minority of us who rarely get true positives. I do get 1-2 days of OPKs that are clearly much darker so I consider those my positives, and they line up with temps and ultrasounds confirming O.

[Traci25]

Wow!! I feel so much better. Yes I have regular periods every 31 days. I did get darker lines so when I temp next month Il take it that that's maybe my O. I missed it this month :( I was waiting for the pos opk. So next month il give it a shot. I can't say thank you enough I was so worries I was premenopausal!! I was gonna try vitex but maybe il wait a month. Has anyone tried vitex?

[maidentomother]

I was on Vitex for several cycles in 2014. If you click on my chart/link below in my signature you can look through my past charts, I always note in the title the cycles I was on Vitex. It really helped lengthen my naturally short LP (from 10 day average up to 14 days) but it also delayed O by 1-2 weeks whenever I started or stopped taking it, just that one transitional cycle but still highly annoying, so I dropped it. Plus I am on fertility meds now which can't be mixed with V.

[Traci25]

That helps a ton, I'm gonna hold off this month on vitex I did make ob apt got clomid next month just so I have it scheduled. But I'm hoping with temping il be able to pin point more accurate O. I'm contemplating Ivf I really would love a healthy dd to complete our family but so nervous on such a huge step.

[maidentomother]

I think you'll do great on the Clomid! Very strong pink sway tactic combined with diet/exercise and one attempt.

[1moregirl]

Why do some women use Clomid? I've seen it a lot here on this website but I don't actually know what it's purpose is. Thanks

[maidentomother]

There are many reasons. Some women need it bc they aren't Oing on their own/lost O due to being too strict on diet/losing too much weight, some women use it bc they have irregular and/or long cycles - often due to PCOS, sometimes caused or exacerbated by swaying. Some of us want to O earlier, possibly release 2 eggs, or improve quality of O. Some of us have short LPs or actual LP defects or low progesterone, all of which Clomid generally fixes. A few of us have a damaged/missing ovary or tube, or a possibly damaged dominant, primary ovary (as in my case), and are hoping to stimulate O from the opposite, undamaged, and/or lazy ovary to improve odds of pregnancy significantly if not dramatically. Some of us have simply been TTC for so long (over a year, or 6 months if 38+) without even a hint of BFP and Clomid/Femara is often used in such cases of 'unexplained infertility'.

And then some are using it purely for swaying purposes bc it is such a good pink sway tactic, though by no means a guarantee or magic bullet. Note that there are some blue swayers on Clomid for some of the aforementioned reasons as well.

Most of us are probably on it for more than one reason. I'm using it primarily bc I O late and have a short LP, have been TTC almost 4 years without ever seeing even a squinter BFP - and 10 of those cycles have been swaying cycles, half with well timed BD, my right, dominant ovary may be damaged and I almost never O from the left on my own, I am concerned about the quality of my O due to (non--TTC, required) meds I'm on, and of course, I certainly don't mind the pink sway bonus!

I would actually prefer to take Femara, or at least have it as an option, as it is likely better for me (fewer serious side effects I'm prone to on Clomid) and it may sway pink even more than Clomid while also having slightly higher odds of conception as it doesn't reduce/prevent fertile CM as Clomid usually does quite aggressively. Unfortunately my dr won't give me it and online pharmacies won't deliver to my country/most of the EU.

[Traci25]

I was just reading about femera, it sounds like positive I couldn't fun if it swayed pink or blue but that's great it sways pink!

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi again Traci.

I concur with what others have said, I doubt your OPK is working. If you're getting EWCM and then AF in a normal, regular time frame the odds are all but 100% you're ovulating.

I woudln't bother charting, I'd start having sex every 4 days (and if hubs is away, then just DTD before he goes and when he gets back) and then you can also do OPK if you want to and try to get in another attempt at positive OPK. OR, you can try to just DTD when you see a lot of EWCM in addition to (not instead of) e4d. At 40, time is not our friend here and after 4 months it's time to move up the schedule a little bit here.

Clomid is also not going to be your best bet at 40 anyway because it can cause egg quality issues for those of us 38 and up.

[atomic sagebrush]

I would try at least another cycle on my own before seeing a doctor or Ob if I was you. Try some different OPK test strips first, the BBTs (more accurate if you take your BbT vaginally than orally) and record it all on Fertility Friend app. You need to take BBT at same time every morning. I usually set alarm for 6.45am so I get it accurate. You mention that you are still getting CM so still sounds like you are Oing - maybe just dodgy OPK strips. Good luck.

What a doctor will tell you when you go in at 40 is basically "you're too old, go home and count your blessings" so I suggest holding off seeing them until we've at lest tried to get it ironed out. They are very dismissive and mean a lot of times, and will tell you that you can't conceive when you totally CAN. I totally think this is just cruddy OPK strips and/or not testing often enough. We can work around it.

[atomic sagebrush]

Wow!! I feel so much better. Yes I have regular periods every 31 days. I did get darker lines so when I temp next month Il take it that that's maybe my O. I missed it this month :( I was waiting for the pos opk. So next month il give it a shot. I can't say thank you enough I was so worries I was premenopausal!! I was gonna try vitex but maybe il wait a month. Has anyone tried vitex?

DO NOT TAKE VITEX. It is completely not indicated for you at all and it will make matters worse.

[atomic sagebrush]

That helps a ton, I'm gonna hold off this month on vitex I did make ob apt got clomid next month just so I have it scheduled. But I'm hoping with temping il be able to pin point more accurate O. I'm contemplating Ivf I really would love a healthy dd to complete our family but so nervous on such a huge step.

If IVF is an option then do it sooner rthter htan later, but honestly your odds are not going to be stellar (and they will prob. be very discouraging.)

We saw terrible pg rates with vitex for moms over 35 and even worse over 38. I really do not recommend it for you at all.

[1moregirl]

Totally agree with you Atomic. Obstetricians can be very negative and scientific with us older Mums. I wouldn't see one again if I was to fall pregnant again. Good luck Traci and definitely try a diff OPK or just BD every 4 days with a def attem when you notice EWCM, like Atomic says. :)

[maidentomother]

Traci, if you can get Femara I would probably try BD every 3 days on it (I will be doing this myself next cycle), I think that would give you nice odds of fast, healthy pink conception! Femara is fine for older women, it doesn't have the issues Clomid can often have.

[Traci25]

Thank you all! That's great info. I will forgo vitex and clomid, if I can't concierge next few months il ask for femera I have an amazing ob she conceived her
Last In her 40's so she totally gets it. I'm gonna dtd like atomic
Said and then if bfn go for femera. I did look at Ivf but the results look bad at viable embryos. If I can get a dd i would
Be over the moon but I do have 3 healthy kids
That I feel so blessed with. I adore this site and all the amazing women I feel so blessed to find it! Just to verify femera doesn't decrease quality of eggs?

[maidentomother]

No it doesn't, Femara may even increase quality.

FWIW, while I agree that Clomid is best avoided by older women (due to its potential to thin the uterine lining, at the very least, if not possibly for other reasons as well), I don't believe it can negatively affect egg quality in women of any age. There is no evidence supporting that idea, if anything rather some that suggests both Clomid & Femara can improve the quality of egg that is released as well as other factors that up odds of conception, in general.

[Traci25]

That's interesting, il let you know what Ob says but it seems as femara has better outcome than clomid I could be wrong! I'm just praying for a healthy baby and dd would my lottery!! I'm sure I missed it this month but hoping for next month!
I've learned so much on this website it's amazing! I had no idea about list stuff!

[atomic sagebrush]

There actually is plenty of evidence that Clomid can raise FSH to such an extent that it causes egg quality to tank. I have seen people with FSH of 7 go onto Clomid and suddenly within 2 months their FSH is in the 30's. Some doctors like to tell people, "that was happening anyway" but it's happened to thousands of people who then went off Clomid and had their FSH return to normal and now most doctors do recognize that it's not right for everyone. It's something that a person with already highish FSH like 10 or above should not be on and most of us ladies "of a certain age" may do better on another medication.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you all! That's great info. I will forgo vitex and clomid, if I can't concierge next few months il ask for femera I have an amazing ob she conceived her
Last In her 40's so she totally gets it. I'm gonna dtd like atomic
Said and then if bfn go for femera. I did look at Ivf but the results look bad at viable embryos. If I can get a dd i would
Be over the moon but I do have 3 healthy kids
That I feel so blessed with. I adore this site and all the amazing women I feel so blessed to find it! Just to verify femera doesn't decrease quality of eggs?

Femara is better all around. THe downside of Femara is that it has to be used off label, meaning it hasn't been approved for fertility uses and so you can't always find a doctor who is informed and willing to prescribe it.

maiden, you probably know this but chemically what is the difference between Clomid and Femara that prevents Femara from causing the issues that Clomid can???

[maidentomother]

I'll do some research, but I know one HUGE factor is the dramatic difference in half-lives, I.e. how long each drug lasts in the body. Clomid has a much, much longer half-life than Femara so the estrogen blocking effects are much more long-lived too. Femara acts more like a quick trigger; after you stop taking it your hormones rebound and (over)compensate then quickly return to normal. With Clomid, there's a much longer estrogen blocking effect which the body often can't recover from as easily/quickly so you can see more serious issues that develop due to long term low/suppressed estrogen. Plus, the hormonal rebound on Clomid is generally weaker than on Femara bc there is no real break from the estrogen blocking effect; thus why many women who respond poorly or not at all to Clomid do well on Femara.

And that's not even addressing potential effects on progesterone levels, and surely there IS an effect simply bc of how interactive/interdependent E & P are. Like dance partners as atomic recently described so eloquently.

Hope that makes sense! I definitely want to learn more about their differences as that may shed light on why Femara may sway pink even more than Clomid, at least in some groups of women (PCOS).

[atomic sagebrush]

I am very curious about that as well for the reason that on paper, using old school sway tactics, Clomid "ought to" sway blue (because it raises T and blocks estrogen) In fact they used to be down on it on IG and some blue swayers were even thinking about getting it, another example of the pitfall where people get so hung up on the speculative reasons of why things are supposed to sway that they lose sight of just doing what is actually WORKING (because when I read the studies, it was profoundly obvious to me that Clomid on its own was swaying at least 3-5% because that's what was found in several studies)

[maidentomother]

And they just ignored the drying effect of Clomid? Seriously? I'm 2dpo on my first Clomid cycle and I have never been so dry except for on birth control. Thankfully I had SOME EWCM for about 24 hours.

Btw, I've noticed that my body produces a lot more EWCM in response to sex/exposure to semen. Like, 6 hours later, BAM I have globs of it, even if I was really dry/had infertile CM before. That time frame is pretty consistent too, 6 hours. It is generally in my fertile period but cycles when I was swaying but not TTC I usually have less EWCM.

I'll let you know what I find. I really miss being at university and having access to unlimited free studies! And it's so expensive to subscribe as a private individual.

[atomic sagebrush]

You prob. already saw that study from about a month ago that showed more intercourse = higher rate of conception, I also notice that too. Even in my LP sometimes if we're having lots of fun I find I"m much more in the mood with EWCM. Bodies are weird LOL.

I'm sure on IG they thought they could just use egg whites and somehow that would magically be the same thing. But no.

[1moregirl]

You prob. already saw that study from about a month ago that showed more intercourse = higher rate of conception, I also notice that too. Even in my LP sometimes if we're having lots of fun I find I"m much more in the mood with EWCM. Bodies are weird LOL.

I'm sure on IG they thought they could just use egg whites and somehow that would magically be the same thing. But no.

Atomic - is this the theory behind more BD equals higher chances of conception equals higher odds of a boy? So that's why it's recommended just one BD shot to sway girl? Soooo interesting....Good Lord - imagine if you used egg whites for lube and came up with an allergic reaction down there? Youch - not nice. ;)

[atomic sagebrush]

Atomic - is this the theory behind more BD equals higher chances of conception equals higher odds of a boy? So that's why it's recommended just one BD shot to sway girl? Soooo interesting....Good Lord - imagine if you used egg whites for lube and came up with an allergic reaction down there? Youch - not nice. ;)

Weirdly, no it isn't. My original thinking was based on studies dating back to 1800's that women who have a regular, live in male partner have more sons, plus the fact that release every 2-4 days = max sperm numbers and also men having regular sex (not release, but sex) may have higher T and sperm count as well. Then this study came out a month ago and added yet another twist on that because everything that ups fertility, seems to sway blue.

The big concern i have with the egg whites is salmonella. It can 100% live in the repro tract of female mammals and it causes miscarriage in animals so I feel very much to be avoided.

[Traci25]

So interesting! I love all this stuff!!

[1moregirl]

Me too Tracie. It is all soooo interesting. Even sometimes when I'm with friends who have boy and girl kids I ask them if they and/or their partners did anything differently when they got the boys and the girls. It is all super interesting to me. I find genetics really interesting too. For example, we have good friends whose first two children (girl, then boy) are red-heads and neither of the parents are redheads. They have just had their third and he is brown-haired so far. Extraordinary. Or instances where you have both brown-eyed parents, yet they have at least one child who has beautiful blue eyes. It's soooo amazing!

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree:hubs and I both have brown eyes and 2 of our 4 sons have blue!?! That used to really piss me off as well because I'd think - 50-50 boy vs. girl odds over 4 kiddos, I haven't gotten lucky with, and 1 in 4 blue eyed child odds, and I've managed to hit twice?!? Annoying!!!!!

[maidentomother]

I haven't seen that study but I will look for it now!

I shared a small studio apt with a good (platonic) male friend in college for several months. We slept together in a small double bed. My 28 day cycles became 21 days while I lived with him! They returned to normal as soon as I moved out. I wasn't temping at that particular time but I would guess I was Oing earlier than usual and obviously there was a significant hormonal shift to affect my cycles so significantly. I really think it was due to pheromones as he had strong body odour, not bad but not good, just strong neutral.