Important BD question...

[1moregirl]

Hi. So I had a look at my chart from June last year when I got my last BFP and I had 3 days in a row of positive OPKs (smiley faces) - CD 15,16 and 17. FF marked my crossroads for a definite O on CD 17. DH and I BD on the night that I Oed (night of CD 17). We had also BD on CD 13 but I doubt sperm could last the 4 days to fertilise the egg so I'm guessing it was BD on CD 17 that did it. Anyway, could this be significant in some way since last month we BD the night of my first pos OPK but we got a BFN? Could it be that DH's sperm are not staying alive long enough for the egg if we are DTD at first pos OPK? Also, if we do the SMEP this cycle will his sperm count be ok with BD the 3 days in a row over pos OPK period? Thanks for your reply.

[jennypenny]

In not sure but interested to see other replies u get on this.

I'm doing every4 days again this month, but not jump and dump. Will persevere with e4d this month and hope sperm is still alive whenever I ovulate xxx


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[maidentomother]

It's basically impossible to conceive from BD on O day, and outright impossible from the night of O day. You conceived from the CD13 BD. Or you Oed later. I'd bet my life on it.

[Pbn3]

I agree with Maiden. I used to think (and right up until a few days ago) that you could even conceive day after o. Not anymore. It is way more likely the sperm survived long enough from earlier bd than that you conceived from o day. If you'd bded that early morning and oed later the same night then maybe? But more likely than not ot was from earlier bd.

519b48 Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/519b48)

[ksmom]

I agree with others, that conception was likely from sperm on cd13. I've conceived from BD three days before O so I don't think four days before is too farfetched. It is possible to conceive from an O day attempt but probably not likely as the sperm may not capacitate in time.

[maidentomother]

Dontlike, did you BD in the morning? Can you post your chart? Also, it is possible for even temps to be wrong...

1moregirl, I'd be interested to see your BFP chart too.

[maidentomother]

That's basically the night before IMO. Yes, early on O day is possible, but still rare. Most people don't know exactly when they Oed and charting apps, especially FF, often get O day wrong.

[1moregirl]

I'll try and get a screen shot of my BFP chart from last June Maiden and post it here. But this next time I am just going to try SMEP and see what happens. Last year I had tried to do a O+12 you see - the IG tactic for girl sway.

[1moregirl]

Ok ladies, if you want to see my BFP you click on my FF link and then you just scroll down until you get to the chart dated June 2015. Then you will see it. Have a look and then let me know what you think. All I know from my notes is that we BD at 8pm that night with me on top and then I laid down for a bit and then got up and put diva cup in. At about 1.30am I got up and took diva cup out to check PH of contents and I noticed a bit of egg white fluid and a bit of pink blood in the bottom of diva cup (prob coz I inserted it in a rush after BD and hurt my insides. Youch!) At some stage (possibly after BD and laying flat for a bit) I inserted a few drops of warm lemon juice with a syringe into vj prior to inserting diva cup. The morning I got my first pos OPK smiley face I had ovulation Pains that night at 8pm and took 2 panadol because it was sooo painful. Plus some mornings I was taking BbT at 6.45 and others at 7am so maybe that contributed to making my O day incorrect? Who knows? I had also noted that on CD 13 I got a pos Ovuplan OPK test strip but clear blue negative - so had BD that night. Interesting that I had Ovuplan positive on CD 13, yet Clearblue didn't show a positive until CD 15. What do you make of that? How interesting...I had completely forgotten all of this until I have just gone back and checked my notes on FF for that cycle. How bizarre! I still don't believe I got pregnant from intercourse 4 days prior to O day when I'm sure DH has low motility. But for this next cycle I am certainly going to try and cover all bases. According to this last cycle we BD 4 days prior to O and on O day somehow yet big fat nothing. I'm just going to aim for more attempts this cycle and see what happens.

[1moregirl]

I DTD at 2:30am and im pretty confident that I ovulated shortly after.
I no longer have my chart but I seriously doubt my temps were wrong when they have always been right before.

I also know several people who DTD on O day and have conceived. Most who do shettles for boy dtd on O day only.

Did those people you know who conceived from BD on O day have girls or boys? Thanks

[maidentomother]

1moregirl, I really think it was from the earlier BD. Your O day looks spot on. Low motility wouldn't lower your odds of conceiving further from O day, if anything it would raise them and make the O day batch incapable of conception.

[maidentomother]

I think the Ovuplan strips may be too sensitive for you.

[BunnyGirl19]

I have noticed that most people who DTD on O day only (with no previous attempts) usually have boys but have seen some who had girls as well.
I was doing shettles timing with diet and supps and have been tracking my cycles though BBT, CM, and OPKs, for over a year before I made my attempt. The last 4-5 months of charting I used a fertility monitor to help. Its very common for people to conceive on one attempt on O day

It really isn't though. I don't have the researched stats handy, but O day has the lowest chance of conception of any day in the fertile window, even lower than O-4. O-2 had the highest chances followed by O-1. The reason the odds are so low on O day is because it takes roughly 12 hours for sperm to start to capacitate (become capable of fertilizing). Sex the morning of O day could theoretically lead to a BFP, but it's still uncommon.

[TaytumJ]

I consider myself really lucky - after 11 months TTC and three rounds of Clomid we were able to conceive in the very small window of time before O. DH was out of town about 5 days before O and we didn't DTD within a reasonable window before that either. DH got home around 1pm on Sunday and we DTD right away with preseed and I'd been taking mucinex for 10 days leading up to that. I had a very painful O that woke me up at around 3:30am that night (so roughly 14ish hours before O) and had a temp rise that morning. We DTD that night (just to make me feel better ha). And those were the only two times we had DTD in my fertile time. Thankfully, it did work for us!

And we don't know if it's a boy or a girl. [emoji6]


Team green baby due May 21! [emoji170][emoji166]

[atomic sagebrush]

It takes fully fertile people in their 20's actively trying to conceive, an average of 3-6 months to get pregnant.

PLEASE do not go back over and over your old charts looking for some magic to reveal itself. No one will ever know, no one can ever tell you, and it may be that your chart was deceptive anyway and you don't even know what really happened.

Re sperm count, around O/positive OPK the sperm are much better able to stay alive inside you and one time a day for ONLY three days should not deplete him too much. It takes 7-10 days of daily release for FR to work, not 3 days.

[atomic sagebrush]

I conceived on O day with this baby. Im 100% sure on what day I Oed with opks and temp. I only DTD on O day and made 0 attempts the days before O.

There's a big difference between BD at 2:30 am the morning of O Day vs. the next night.

I also got pregnant with roughly this timing - like 1 am the day before (really early on O Day but I hadn't slept yet so it felt like O-1 LOL) but NO ONE can tell what hour of they Oed. So your temps can show O on a particular day, and you may have BD that day, but it can still be many hours before O even occured.

Studies have shown better odds of conception when sperm is already inside VJ waiting for egg to arrive. All people are trying to explain is that odds of pregnancy when you wait and wait around to O FIRST before having sex, are much lower than from sex before O.

[atomic sagebrush]

I have noticed that most people who DTD on O day only (with no previous attempts) usually have boys but have seen some who had girls as well.
I was doing shettles timing with diet and supps and have been tracking my cycles though BBT, CM, and OPKs, for over a year before I made my attempt. The last 4-5 months of charting I used a fertility monitor to help. Its very common for people to conceive on one attempt on O day

I also must disagree. Sorry, I'm trying not to be argumentative but most of us on here have 2-3-4 or more Shettles timing opposites and scientifically, Shettles timing has been 110% debunked by scientists using modern technology like ultrasound and hormone detection (instead of people guesstimating when they ovulated with no confirmation OR BBT alone). O Day is proven to be among the worst days to conceive on (more in line with O-3, O-4, or even worse than that, the later past O you go in the day). O-2 and O-1 are much higher odds.

I can understand that after spending that much time and energy invested in Shettles that you may not agree or want to hear from people who believe otherwise, but, the facts are what they are and we're just reporting on them. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I DTD at 2:30am and im pretty confident that I ovulated shortly after.
I no longer have my chart but I seriously doubt my temps were wrong when they have always been right before.

I also know several people who DTD on O day and have conceived. Most who do shettles for boy dtd on O day only.

Yes, most people who do Shettles for blue are aiming for O Day, but the problem inherent in this method is that you have no way to know if they BD before the egg was released or 23 hours after and are still calling that O day. There is a huge difference in terms of odds of conception.

Studies have shown that temping and monitoring CM are not reliable to pinpoint DAY of O. You can get it close, but not to the day, let alone the hour. O pain has been also proven completely unreliable to pinpoint O.

We aren't trying to be big meanies, Shettles just doesn't work, and I feel really bad for people who are relying on it and want to get the word out. No one should ever waste a year of their limited fertile years charting for a Shettles attempt. :(

[TaytumJ]

We aren't trying to be big meanies, Shettles just doesn't work, and I feel really bad for people who are relying on it and want to get the word out. No one should ever waste a year of their limited fertile years charting for a Shettles attempt. :(

I wholeheartedly agree with this! When we first started TTC I read Shettles and it gave me SUCH anxiety trying to time it just right! I would tell DH we couldn't DTD or we had to do it with a condom because it wasn't O day! Granted, I wasn't Oing on my own so that added to the frustration, but had I been, I could see where you just waste so much time obsessing over O day and chances are you still have a 50/50 chance. My BFF did one attempt right before O and just had a little girl.

Again, I'm so thankful ours worked out when it did with timing as I was going mad, but if this is a boy, I firmly believe it's because we were doing other boy friendly tactics, not because of our timing. It's such a crazy journey TTC anyway! Ahhh! [emoji854]

[MrsGoodies]

I concieved my son 36 hr after a +opk so it was the DAY OF O for sure. It was the only BD that month as dh was away on business.

I was trying to do O+12 and had unsuccessful attempts at 48 hr after +opk, 44 hr after +opk, 40 hr after + opk...i just kept moving it up 4 hr every month until i caught the egg....

Got a boy though so O +12 isnt that great imho.

[1moregirl]

There's a big difference between BD at 2:30 am the morning of O Day vs. the next night.

I also got pregnant with roughly this timing - like 1 am the day before (really early on O Day but I hadn't slept yet so it felt like O-1 LOL) but NO ONE can tell what hour of they Oed. So your temps can show O on a particular day, and you may have BD that day, but it can still be many hours before O even occured.

Studies have shown better odds of conception when sperm is already inside VJ waiting for egg to arrive. All people are trying to explain is that odds of pregnancy when you wait and wait around to O FIRST before having sex, are much lower than from sex before O.

Im thinking I will just go with SMEP this time round and see what happens. We have already started the sex every other day thing (and we'll try for every 3rd or 4th day) - and then at the first pos OPK sex every day once a day for three days, skip 4th day and an extra on 5th day. I really just hope DH goes along with the program and cooperates! Lol! I only just got him on the OLE 2 days ago so I hope that gives things a good go as well. And I have been walking every day for at least an hour. A lady on a Facebook page I'm on said yesterday that if she was me she wouldn't risk her health trying again for a baby after the risky miscarriage I had last year. But other than that, I've had mostly positive and encouraging advice about it thank heavens. Sometimes I do feel guilty and selfish for wanting to try again after the miscarriage I went through last year. :(

[maidentomother]

I concieved my son 36 hr after a +opk so it was the DAY OF O for sure. It was the only BD that month as dh was away on business.

I was trying to do O+12 and had unsuccessful attempts at 48 hr after +opk, 44 hr after +opk, 40 hr after + opk...i just kept moving it up 4 hr every month until i caught the egg....

Got a boy though so O +12 isnt that great imho.

You can O 2, 3, 4 or more days after a positive OPK. It doesn't always happen the next day. OPKs cannot tell you exactly what day you Oed. Even temps can't do that with complete reliability.

[maidentomother]

I still disagree. I didn't waste a year of my fertile time either. I was charting and doing other things to prepare for my attempt. I got very lucky and DTD ON ovulation day and get a BFP the same cycle.
I have seen on here, IG and many many other sites where ladies have done shettles timing and only DTD on O day and conceived (yes, some had girls and some had boys) and I doubt all these people are lying.

But at the end of the day you have to do what is best for your situation. Everyone is allowed to believe and do what they want. Its just one of those things where you have to find what works best for you.

Until I see your chart or the charts of all those other supposed O day conceptions, I remain unconvinced. I highly doubt all those women were temping, and as I've said, even if they were, temps aren't foolproof. If they weren't temping, they can't know when they Oed with any accuracy. I don't think they were lying, though that is always possible, most likely they were just misinformed/ignorant as to the reality of how difficult it is to accurately pinpoint O. Very few women are aware of this fact. Also, are you completely sure that none of these women who supposedly conceived from O day BD didn't BD several days earlier, but thought that wasn't worth mentioning? Sperm can survive for a week or even longer. Conception from BD 4+ days before O is much more likely than from O day BD.

You should also read this thread I posted on this exact topic: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/2ww-gathering-place/54002-has-anyone-conceived-bd-o-day-day-after-o-confirmed-o.html

[atomic sagebrush]

And that's fine, you guys can absolutely do whatever sway tactics you want to. I even wrote a book for people who want to do timing for swaying even though I don't believe in it. But I am also allowed to chime in as a person who got opposites 4 of 5 times with Shettles and say that it's been debunked again and again and again in about every way you possibly can debunk something. I don't CARE if people want to start off doing timing. Your sway, your way. I care about keeping this site factual in the face of a kajillion other sites saying Shettles works, and thus I have to give the other side of the story whenever the topic comes up.

They aren't lying and I never said they were. But it has been shown in actual scientific studies involving hundreds of women and ovulation confirmed by blood tests and ultrasounds, that charting can be wrong A LOT even in highly trained experts. That is the reason why when charting for birth control you wait 3 DAYS after you think you ovulated to start having unprotected sex. It is because no one can pinpoint day of O with anything more than 1 in 3 chance or 2 in 3 chance if you use both temping/charting and also monitoring CM and CP. People can get close but 1 out of 3 days does NOT confirm day of O and certainly not hour of O. Do whatever sway tactics you want to do, absolutely, of course, but the facts are what they are. We see people on here all the time who have weird results with charting and OPK and symptoms that do not support the idea that these things are some kind of surefire thing for pinpointing the day or hour of ovulation. We're talking hundreds of people here.

MANY people actually have wasted a year out of their fertile window charting. IG suggests 6 months at the minimum (or they used to anyway) Maybe that wasn't what you did, but I've seen people do it, and some of those people then go on to have either opposites anyway, or struggles with fertility that are very hard on them. I know of people who swayed for 2 years only to get opposites, and also people who TTC using timing for 1-2 years (after taking several months to chart first) in their late 30's and then found that they couldn't get pregnant. Some of these ladies still do not have babies today. We are getting great results within 3 months' time without emphasizing timing and I feel it's a better way, not because I am a big mean bully but because I've seen too many people end up heartbroken with timing.

[atomic sagebrush]

I concieved my son 36 hr after a +opk so it was the DAY OF O for sure. It was the only BD that month as dh was away on business.

I was trying to do O+12 and had unsuccessful attempts at 48 hr after +opk, 44 hr after +opk, 40 hr after + opk...i just kept moving it up 4 hr every month until i caught the egg....

Got a boy though so O +12 isnt that great imho.

Even OPK aren't that reliable alone. If you had a delayed O it can happen that you get a pos OPK and then it takes 3 or 4 days, or you can release 2 eggs one a few hours after the other and hit only the second one.

Again, I'm not trying to quibble about when anyone Oed. In the words of Tommy Lee Jones in "The Fugitive" I don't care! I just am trying to keep things as factual as I can, which is that unless you have blood tests and/or ultrasounds to pinpoint ovulation, even people with a high level of training can't pinpoint the day that they ovulated, and studies involving blood tests and ultrasounds have shown this.

[1moregirl]

I tried to do O+12 last year in June when I did get a BFP and I struggled to pinpoint O and I don't believe it's possible without ultrasound and blood tests. I definitely don't believe we can pin it down to a precise hour. It's just too difficult to try and to attempt. Plus as Atomic has stated before, swaying is down to much more than just BD timing. There's diet and exercise and other things that can influence our hormones and all play a role. So I'm not going to wonder about what I did last time. This is a whole new attempt with a whole new approach so I'm just going to do SMEP, since DH is only agreeing to one cycle attempt and see what happens. If it happens wonderful....if it doesn't, it doesn't and at least I have our three beautiful children who will always be my babies no matter how big they become.

[MrsGoodies]

You can O 2, 3, 4 or more days after a positive OPK. It doesn't always happen the next day. OPKs cannot tell you exactly what day you Oed. Even temps can't do that with complete reliability.

I've had several u/s monitored IUI ..all natural with no hcg triggers and I always O at the 36 hr mark...every single time. I even came in early morning at 28-32hrs after first +OPK a few times because I was sure I already O and didnt want to miss the egg, so my poor dr would humor me and do an u/ s and say "see...your follicle is still there"... Then I would show up in the afternoon at the 36 -37 hr and the follicle would be collapsing or gone (@38 hr).

[MrsGoodies]

This is a whole new attempt with a whole new approach so I'm just going to do SMEP, since DH is only agreeing to one cycle attempt and see what happens. If it happens wonderful....if it doesn't, it doesn't and at least I have our three beautiful children who will always be my babies no matter how big they become.

Oh I really hope your DH enjoys the BD so much he agrees to more than 1 try....that's unfair to put so much pressure on you. I'd be crazy stressed out the whole time if my DH did that!

[1moregirl]

I know MtsGoodies, but I can understand it from his perspective as well. He'll be 46 next week and he just feels his age I think and worries about having young kids being older. Whereas I think differently about it and feel that having young kids when you are older helps keep you younger by keeping you fit and healthy. We do already have 3 children so if another baby doesn't happen for us, I can't be disappointed. I know there are plenty of others out there struggling for years and years just to conceive their first baby, so I am very blessed. :)

[maidentomother]

I've had several u/s monitored IUI ..all natural with no hcg triggers and I always O at the 36 hr mark...every single time. I even came in early morning at 28-32hrs after first +OPK a few times because I was sure I already O and didnt want to miss the egg, so my poor dr would humor me and do an u/ s and say "see...your follicle is still there"... Then I would show up in the afternoon at the 36 -37 hr and the follicle would be collapsing or gone (@38 hr).

I tend to O around 30 hours after my firdt positive, too. It is by far the most common pattern for me. But it's not ALWAYS the case, and I've had 71 monitored cycles. If you have only a frw, it may seem that you are very regular, and indeed you may be most of the time, but there are are always exceptions, we aren't machines! But I wasn't necessarily talking to you specifically, rather all women in general. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I've had several u/s monitored IUI ..all natural with no hcg triggers and I always O at the 36 hr mark...every single time. I even came in early morning at 28-32hrs after first +OPK a few times because I was sure I already O and didnt want to miss the egg, so my poor dr would humor me and do an u/ s and say "see...your follicle is still there"... Then I would show up in the afternoon at the 36 -37 hr and the follicle would be collapsing or gone (@38 hr).

Ok, that's fine and totally awesome. You can operate under the assumption that is true every month for you if you'd like. But even if it is, I have to reply to questions for the benefit of every person who may read it and even if it is true for you, that does not then translate to every person who then reads this thread. All I can do is report on the factual findings of researchers which is that no one can pinpoint ovulation to the hour or day. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I tend to O around 30 hours after my firdt positive, too. It is by far the most common pattern for me. But it's not ALWAYS the case, and I've had 71 monitored cycles. If you have only a frw, it may seem that you are very regular, and indeed you may be most of the time, but there are are always exceptions, we aren't machines! But I wasn't necessarily talking to you specifically, rather all women in general. :)

:agree: Yeah that's the point I'm trying to get across here - even if it's true 90% of the time for someone, it doesn't mean that it is true forever in perpetuity, we know that swaying and age and hormonal medications can and do change even the most reliable patterns. and it REALLY doesn't mean that it's then true for everyone. It isn't. Even if it was true for 90% of people (which it isn't) then that would not therefore mean that someone was not in the 10% of people it wasn't true for, yk??

I recently had a swayer who has had tons of monitored cycles (like 3 dozen over the last 10 years) who always ovulated from the right and she was really concerned about possible blockage in that tube. She was so sure she would never O from the left, that she was really upset about it, but then lo and behold she did start Oing from the left on Femara. The body is weird.

It is hard sometimes for people to realize the difference between one on one communication and the way things work on a forum. Replies are not intended towards anyone personally, they are meant for dozens or hundreds of people across a population.