FF chart question

[1moregirl]

Can anyone tell me why my BBT seems up a few days around O and then the 3 days after O they seem lower than usual? Soooo confusing...I hate how my charts seem to fluctuate. I did promise myself I wasn't going to chart analyse but it's easier said then done. here's a pic attached. 31217

[1moregirl]

I know it doesn't look promising for a BFP so far.....:(

[MrsGoodies]

I had a look at all your charts and your temps only seem to spike up a week after O which is normal bc thats when another progesterone push hapens when the embryo implants.

You have a few days yet, so chill out and get busy cleaning out the garage or something to make this next week fly by! (Easier said than done i know but really there is nothing you can do so might as well get some spring cleaing out of the way!)

[atomic sagebrush]

I actually think it may be GOOD for pink. People don't realize that part of the reason temps do the things they do is not only because of prog rise, but because of estrogen being high in the FP before O. So if you have less estrogen (which may sway pink) your temps may be higher than you expect before O, and then even when you get the prog rise it may not be as shockingly clearcut as someone who is super high in estrogen (low temps) before O and then ovulates, drops estrogen, and makes prog. I hope that makes sense it's hard to explain

[1moregirl]

Thanks Atomic. I was quite down about it this morning in bed after I'd taken my temp and I didn't even want to get out of bed for a while. And part of me is feeling angry with DH because I'm going through all of this on my own just because he selfishly wouldn't try for another. Bloody men! Right now I feel like the only thing he is really good at is being a breadwinner and providing for us. Otherwise he mostly just seems emotionally unavailable, if that makes sense. Anyway, sorry for my rant. My BBt went up again slightly today but not much. It's just strange. Last month my cycle seemed perfect for a BFP and had me convinced for a short while that I was, but nope. I'm feeling very much headachey today too, tired, fat, bloated. I'm looking forward to my app this wed with the Ob/gyn/FS to see what he recommends. I have a fertility blood test to do but am waiting til I am 7 DPO (so 7 days past CD 18, which will be CD 25). Here's a pic of my chart after this morning's BBt.
31254

[1moregirl]

This is my chart from last month. The one that gave me false hope. :( and right now, I'm feeling like I'm out this cycle as well. :(
31255

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, just to play devil's advocate here, there are a lot of guys who are emotionally unavailable and also poor providers and not good breadwinners. ;)

How sure are you that you Oed??

[1moregirl]

I don't know. I had plenty of EWCM and the two pos OPKs, but other than that, I don't know if I Oed. How would I know for sure? I also had O pains one day there before the pos OPKs. Soooo frustrating....if only DH was on board then we could get his swimmers checked out as well just to rule it out, as I'm sure the problem lies with me. And probably uterine scarring somewhere. Or I've run out of good eggs completely...or my hormones are out of whack...This just sucks and I really feel for those women who have struggled with infertility on a long term basis. Anyway, will see how my chart continues and how I get on with blood test results after tomorrow's blood tests and app on Wednesday. Thanks for putting up with me and my rants and whines. Xxoo

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, I think that at some point we learn our cycles well enough so we do have some inkling - like for me, I really have negative a bilion interest in sex for a week around when I think I Oed so I usually take that as a sign it happened (I am a terrible sleeper and don't chart) I was just curious if you felt that you had Oed or if you weren't sure. :)

Your chart today does seem to have a small temp rise and is above coverline so I do think it happened.

Remember, you may only be making a few good eggs a year so it may just take a bit longer. :)

[1moregirl]

Thanks Atomic. Yes I'm quite sure I did O. I usually only ever feel like sex around the time of O, or just before I O. My BBT this morning was 36.89 yet I had a terrible night of sleep. I was angry with DH so I slept with my daughter in her bed with the intention of trying to get our 3 year old (who shares a room with her) to stay put in his own bed. He kept waking a LOT asking for me or going out the door to start to go to my room. Plus I kept waking because my phone wasn't charging and I was worried my alarm wouldn't go off so I would miss taking my BBT at all. As it turned out, I awoke right on 7am. I also need to go out and buy some more ubiquinol as I haven't even taken it for the last week because I have felt so bummed about it all and defeated. Now I am thinking maybe my chart will turn out to be a triphasic chart with a third shift up and a BFP at the end of it, but I doubt it. Otherwise I will just chalk it up to a bad cycle. I haven't had any other symptoms and I'm not even really recording or noting anything as I think that's a waste of time. I still have soreish boobs but NO - I'm not going there. I'm not even going to test this time. Just gone wait for AF to show. Not getting my hopes again like I have these other three cycles.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ah yes I have that same 3 year old LOL. o.O

I know it sucks though. All you can do is be that Little Engine That Could and keep showing up when you can in case Goldie arrives. :)

[1moregirl]

I had really super cold feet this morning and was very anxious about s few things going on and found myself hoping I'm not pregnant this time and that maybe I should let go completely of the idea. It worries me a lot...the possibility of another horrendous miscarriage like last time, or conceiving a baby with defects or health issues. I just don't know if I'm emotionally strong enough to go there. I almost cancelled my appointment tomorrow with the FS, but I decided to keep it and go just in case. If there was/is a problem, then I would at least like to know what it is, even if I do decide that I don't want to conceive again. Does this all make sense? I think it comes from an incident that happened on the weekend when DH lost it with our 7 yr old in a way that he never has before and it made me think maybe I'm really not being fair to DH trying to conceive again. Anyway, that's where I'm at right now. Will you keep you posted.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that totally makes sense to me!! :heart: I think it's only natural to have those thoughts and yes do keep us posted.

[1moregirl]

Appointment done and dusted. He was very lovely and positive. He said for my age my AMH level was 'very good' and all hormone levels look fine. He did a quick scan of everything and said my uterus looked good and lining nice and thick (looks good for 9DPO or could be a fresh pregnancy underway). He said they could help me via having a hysteroscopy and scraping bit of lining away (hence getting rid of any possible scar tissue, which he said could be a possibility given the nasty miscarriage that I had). He also said another option was IUI after being given meds to induce O. I am nervous about the thought of a hysteroscopy as last two times I have had surgery (gallbladder removal and D&C) I had trouble breathing for a little while after coming out of the anaesthetic. I'm not sure why he didn't recommend testing DH's semen prior to the drastic measure of a hysteroscopy? Wouldn't that be a relevant step to take prior to a hysteroscopy? I don't know. Anyway, that's where I'm at. my BBT jumped to 36.92 this morning and I have had some EWCM this morning when I went to the toilet...but I'm NOT symptom spotting and I'm dfinitely NOT doing any POAS just yet. He also said there is every possibility of me being able to conceive and he has had quite a few patients my age (44) who have conceived and given birth to healthy babies using their own eggs and no meds so that's promising too. Now I'm thinking how wonderful it would be if I was pregnant this time round and didn't have to take any other measures in order to conceive. We'll see I guess....

[MrsGoodies]

I am so glad your appointment went well.

[purple]

He probably didn't suggest a SA for your DH since he has shown he can get you pregnant 4 times. It also depends what the FS is like. My first one insisted on another SA for DH when we went back again when ttc #2 but my current FS says we don't need to worry about it as I have conceived several times now.

I have been offered the option of having a hysteroscopy too but I didn't want to do anything that invasive. It is a personal choice though so if it gives you peace of mind then it may help.

What meds did he suggest for you to try? Would your DH be cooperative enough for a IUI?

[1moregirl]

I just don't know where to go from here really. I don't feel keen to do the IUI and I sincerely doubt that DH would even agree to that, since I have a hard enough time getting him to agree to damn near anything really. I would be pushing just to get a SA from him. He didn't suggest any medications for me since my hormones are all good and I am ovulating regularly. I am feeling that before I agreed to have a hysteroscopy I would get DH to have a SA first. What if I went through all the trouble of having a hysteroscopy and then still couldn't conceive because DH had too low a sperm count, for example? He also told me that there was nothing you can take or do to improve egg quality (ubiquinol - he said it doesn't help). Anyway, it's all given me something to think about. And I need to read up on hysteroscopies because, even though he did explain it, I need to just read about it again. Any sort of surgery is not something I jump into straight away that's for sure.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think he was trying to alleviate your concern with the offer of the hysteroscopy. It is not medically indicated IMO and I think it's a step in the wrong direction to have another medical procedure (with the risks inherent in that) without a positive diagnosis that anything is even going on.

I would really, really hesitate before having another invasive procedure done without a solid reason to.

Great news that your tests were so encouraging. :)

[1moregirl]

Thanks Atomic. Do you think maybe I should get DH to have a SA done somehow? Even just for peace of mind? I still have this nagging thing in the back of my mind suggesting that he could've gotten a vasectomy done while he was overseas last year in September. He was there for 6 weeks after I'd had miscarriage as one of his parents was unwell. And at my Ob app after my miscarriage he had had the audacity to bring up vasectomy (I was soooo angry as that app was meant to be about me and the miscarriage) and my Ob had told him he should not be talking about or booking any appointments for a vasectomy when me (his wife) was against it. What if he had had it done whilst he was away and was just keeping it from me? That is another reason for the SA. If all is ok with his sperm, then I will fully accept that it is me and my eggs that is the issue. I hope I don't sound like a paranoid idiot. And I'm pretty sure I'm out for pregnancy this time as my BBt dropped again this morning. Not below the coverline but it is def looking too mountainy to be a BFP chart. Otherwise maybe I am just not ovulating any where near where I am getting positive OPKs. I just don't understand how I can go from getting pregnant first try just less than a year ago to having 4 tries now and still no BFP. And I've even been taking the ubiquinol as well which is meant to help and I wasn't taking that last year. So what the hell...? I just don't understand and I feel sooo bitterly disappointed, which I know is ridiculous and selfish since there are others out there who are in this position but have never known the joy of having one child let alone three like myself. I know how lucky I am, believe me, but it is just disappointing when you have had a taste of what it would be like to be pregnant again and have another child (like I did last year in June) and then lose that and not be able to have it back again. My little girl said to me just the other day, "I want that baby back that died in your tummy last year Mummy." And it brought tears to my eyes. And I'm going through it without my DH's support. I'm starting to wonder if maybe The kids and I would be better off without him. Sorry for my rant. I'm crying as I type this as well. AF must be on her ugly bitchy way as I have felt a bit cranky and emotional today. FF marked out timing as 'high' chance for success this cycle (instead of the usual low) and nothing...no BFP once again. We BD nearly every day of my fertile window this last time (except for one day) and I thought that would nail it.

[purple]

I think you would struggle to get him to agree to a SA so I wouldn't push it in your situation. He has a good record for conception so he is probably ok.

If he had got a vasectomy without your knowledge then he probably wouldn't be worried about using condoms.

I'm sorry your little girl was sad about the baby. I have kept it from my boys as I was waiting until I knew everything was ok, plus I didn't trust them not to blurt it out! My youngest still talks about the cat that died when he was 2 so it is strange what they remember and when they randomly bring it up again.

I technically got pregnant first try with DS1 but it took 10 cycles for DS2 and I'm again on cycle 10. DH had excellent SA results too. Unfortunately it is something that just takes time.

[MrsGoodies]

No SA needed.

Simply Check out his testicles for two small scars or one bigger scar down the middle. Then you will know.

Sometimes scars are tricky to see if there us a lot of hair though.

[MrsGoodies]

Another thing you can do is get a microscope and check the ejaculate after BD. use a non spermicdal condom. They will be alive for a couple hrs at room temp. Even dead sperm show up on slides (i know when i was using TBM and once used too much lime and killed them all).

If no sperm seen at all, then ask him straight out.

[1moregirl]

I think you would struggle to get him to agree to a SA so I wouldn't push it in your situation. He has a good record for conception so he is probably ok.

If he had got a vasectomy without your knowledge then he probably wouldn't be worried about using condoms.

I'm sorry your little girl was sad about the baby. I have kept it from my boys as I was waiting until I knew everything was ok, plus I didn't trust them not to blurt it out! My youngest still talks about the cat that died when he was 2 so it is strange what they remember and when they randomly bring it up again.

I technically got pregnant first try with DS1 but it took 10 cycles for DS2 and I'm again on cycle 10. DH had excellent SA results too. Unfortunately it is something that just takes time.

Thanks Purple. Yes you are probably right about DH. I'm now a bit worried though because I'm only 10DPO today and this afternoon I have had light spotting and light cramping. Surely it's too early for AF to arrive. it has never arrived this early before. What a pain! Unless maybe I Oed earlier than I thought and what FF predicted. I wonder if it is possible to O before you get your positive OPKs? I don't know. I know it's nothing like implantation because my chart is looking too up and down and I've never had implantation spotting or dips before. I'm starting to think of discontinuing the BBT or maybe just doing it around O time and that's all because I seem to be too analytical of it during the 2WW.

[purple]

I had some cramping and spotting at 10dpo for my last BFP which I hadn't had before so sometimes it happens or sometimes it is just AF on the way.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think that pushing DH to do ANYTHING beyond what has already transpired is a major mistake and I do not recommend you pursue it.

Yes, he could have had a vasectomy while away. He could have also lost fertility completely innocently in the same time frame due to circumstances that are completely out of his control. IT DOESN'T MATTER. Pushing him to get a sperm analysis gains you nothing. I completely agree with purple here that if he'd had a secret vasectomy he would be absolutely humoring you in every way for TTC. He'd be all like "yeah sure honey, let's make a baby" and be having unprotected sex all the time with you since he'd know it was safe.

It takes fully fertile people doing everything to conceive, 3-6 months on average. If you've gotten pregnant easier than that in the past, chalk that up to good luck then, not bad luck now.

I'm going to speak to you from the heart now as someone who has been in a similar position and I really really do have sympathy. If your husband is a good provider, treats you well in most cases, and the children well, if you're happy with your life as it is, your home, your situation, and you would blow up your family over this issue - I humbly submit you may need to reassess your position here. Some of us are in similar situations except our husbands aren't and don't do those other things too and we also don't have daughters (I really hesitate to bring this up because I completely understand you can still have very severe GD for additional daughters, but still). I think you need to take a step back and count your blessings because you may not be seeing the forest for the trees any more. I mean this with a lot of sympathy and kindness intended. I'm not saying you're wrong, or that you shouldn't grab life by the balls and squeeze till it gives up everything you want, but take a moment to consider the costs that you would inflict upon everyone involved, that's all.

[MrsGoodies]

Hey atomic,

When you said you were in a simiar position as 1moregirl and could sympathize, what did you mean?

Was it ttc your first girl (which it looks like your DH finaly agreed)

or have you been wanting to ttc a sister for her but our DH refuse so you drop it?

Thank you

[1moregirl]

DH has agreed to do a SA. I just said I need to know whether it was my faulty ageing eggs or a fault with his sperm that caused the miscarriage last year, so that I can fully accept it and move on. Obviously he hasn't had a vasectomy. I did get my period yesterday and it's in full swing today so it certainly wasn't implantation bleeding. But because period showed up at 10DPO I am questioning when I actually did O. Is it possible I Oed before I got my two positive OPKs do you think? FF didn't mark solid cross lines this time to indicate O either. They were broken lines. Anyway, I am going to try fertility massage I think and keep just cruising along trying for a few months and see what happens. I am no longer going to think of it as the be all and end all. What will be will be. I'm even thinking of quitting BBTing and just use the OPK tests and just BD merrily along every second day and see what how it goes. I'm not that keen on the hysteroscopy idea and feel I should give things a bit longer naturally first. Atomic - I didn't take offence at any of your advice as I totally understand what you're saying. I am going to take a step back and just be more relaxed about this now instead of letting it consume me and take over my life. To be honest, I had even thought of buying a plan from you so I can properly stick to a girl fertility diet as I have been terrible lately with diet. I find when I am more relaxed I eat really well and cannot do without snacks, yet when I am a bit anxious I eat less and can easily go without breakfast and snacks. Anyway, that's what I'm thinking right now. Thanks for hanging in there with me ladies and giving me constant support and advice. A friend said to me not long ago, "God never gives you more than you can handle." I don't know how true this is but maybe it isn't in his plan to give us a 4th child and that's fine. I'll be ok with that.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey atomic,

When you said you were in a simiar position as 1moregirl and could sympathize, what did you mean?

Was it ttc your first girl (which it looks like your DH finaly agreed)

or have you been wanting to ttc a sister for her but our DH refuse so you drop it?

Thank you

AA omg sorry he walked in right in the middle of this! I'm going to delete this after a couple days. :p

To put this in perspective a little, DH agreed before we were even married, that we would have 5 or 6 kids. I was a functional only child (my half-sibs are way younger and I have no full bio siblings) and I HATED it. I love kids and wanted to be surrounded by them. Then, we had our first two and he made several decisions that made it all but impossible for us to continue having kids and I mostly gave up the idea because of these decisions, even though I did still crave more kids (boy or girl) and I sacrificed a lot for him to pursue a dream of his. Then after 11 years he agreed to more kids. I had to go back to work for 2 years to get us in a situation financially that this could happen and this was not pleasant work, it was in a dog kennel, outdoors in winter and summer and very hard work. So it wasn't like a huge favor he was doing me, it was something that had been promised to begin with and had worked to make happen.

We had the 4 boys and DH was done. He was never super into our first two boys as they aren't rough and tumble guys or into sports, and he was THRILLED to have another boy (I think he had a weird kind of GD for more boys). After the boys came, I still wanted to try one more time for DD since only mostly after getting pregnant with DS 4 did I really start to put it all together with my research how to do it. I decided I'd fiddle around with swaying and then I'd be ready if he changed his mind. He had no interest, he claimed the reason was because he was worried about my health and a baby's health. But despite this he just kept occasionally showing up and TTC unprotected. I did not stop him and secretly hoped I would get pregnant (it seemed a very long shot given my age 41) At the same time, my marriage was not doing very well at all (as many know his dad was dying and he had a hard time with it, not his fault of course, but not mine either). I suspected pretty strongly that we would not be married much longer. While I knew fully it could cost me my marriage if I got pregnant without DH's strict blessing, I decided not to rock the boat and confront him about what our plan really was, here, in hopes that he kept occasionally TTC unprotected, but that is because I thought my marriage was ending either way and I figured I'd rather come out of it with a baby and no husband than no baby and no husband (even if a boy). I really, truly did not think I would conceive without actively trying though, and if I did, I felt sure I'd have a miscarriage. Had I truly known in my heart and gut that I would actually get successfully pregnant I would not have done so without his blessing. I did get pregnant much to my surprise and while it has strained our marriage a lot, at least I have her. But that was in a bad situation with a marriage that was on the rocks anyway and I was willing to take the chance to keep the dream alive.

[MrsGoodies]

Thank you for your story Atomic. I'm so glad it worked out! I'm sure you admire your sweet baby girl every day and are thankful you didnt give up.

Ita that a baby wth no husband is better than no baby no husband. Good for you! Were you just dong the LE diet while hoping to ttc unprotected?

My dh was very strict with the condoms right after the miscarriage but lately he is a bit absentminded. I guess a few months seems like forever ago. I hope he gets some bad amnesia this month :)

[1moregirl]

It's nice to know there are a few of us in similar positiions. My DH has his slip for the SA so we will have to get onto that tonight...we'll get Bd or have him release and then release in 2 days time to get the fresh sample to deliver for analysis. I have got the feeling it is me and my eggs that's the issue, but at least this will put my mind at rest and I will know for sure. I will keep trying then for a few months before I even consider a surgical option. I'm even thinking maybe I didn't even O this last cycle since my BBTs were strange and my LP just on 10 days. Who knows? Am going to try the SMEP plan for older Mums from now on with BD every 2 or 3 days plus some goes around pos OPK time (except there was a bit of a diff for older Mums and Das around pos OPK time with SMEP so I must read up on that again). I haven't been taking my ubiquinol either but I doubt that would muck up my chart. Must buy some more.