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[Complex Emotions]

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[3'sacharm]

You'll never regret a child that's for sure, you may grieve for the daughter you never had, but you're highly likely to regret never having tried for your girl! Only you can make that decision.x

[squigglepink]

Complex - you will never regret another boy. You will more than likely, by the sounds of it, have GD - BUT that will fade as your boy grows up to be amazing like his older brother! After my first lovely son i was only expecting a girl next. There was nothing else i was meant to have but a daughter. At our 20 week scan when baby was confirmed a boy, i cried. Hard. For two days. I was bummed the remainder of my pregnancy. Its safe to say now, however, he is the apple of my eye. I cannot tell you how important it is that he is here, in our family. He totally makes sense and ticks all the boxes. My husband and i are constantly saying how delighted we are he turned out a boy. Him and his older brother play cars and trucks. They play in the garden with their spades and dig for worms and bugs. They are buddies and brothers and i know a brother is what my eldest son needed in his little life. The real reason im going for a 3rd is my own desire to have a girl. That is all. Even my DH is fine with another boy. I just wanted to let you know how you do not stand alone in your anxiety to have a second boy after already having one, as i was there. As for having only one child, i think that is totally ideal in many ways. I can only speak for myself and say that whilst raising two boys is tough, i dont think its any easier raising two daughters, or BG. I almost want to say, go on, have more, because here i am at 39, trying for a 3rd, wishing i had started this process years ago! I personally am rather pleased i have a brother and a sister. I would like my kids to have each other, for many reasons later on in life. But, some only children have big families and cousins etc which works out fine too.
I wish you all the very best in your decision. I think all of us on here have had similar feelings to you re GD. I even have days when i think im crazy to want to add a possible 3rd boy into our mix. But im running out of time to contemplate this much longer.. and also - i look at my second boy and think he will make a great middle child and older brother! :)

[Erin514]

I would say that if you're feeling this way, you should give yourself a break from ttc. LOTS of women have kids after 35, and you don't have to close the door permanently. But it really sounds like you're not in a healthy place physically or emotionally right now. Could you maybe just agree to take 6 months off where you don't have to focus on a second baby and then see how you feel after that?

[trifecta]

I would say that if you're feeling this way, you should give yourself a break from ttc. LOTS of women have kids after 35, and you don't have to close the door permanently. But it really sounds like you're not in a healthy place physically or emotionally right now. Could you maybe just agree to take 6 months off where you don't have to focus on a second baby and then see how you feel after that?

I agree that you should take a break, maybe just a brief one to take the pressure off, and try to reframe how you think about some of these issues. It might be ideal to have kids when you are under 35 but it certainly isn't dangerous to have kids over 35, or to put it off for a little bit to decide what you really want. There's no emergency, only a gradual decline in fertility and I think it's more dangerous to rush into something you don't want.

I also think nobody ever needs to justify not having another child. Studies have been pretty clear that children benefit more from the attention of their parents than from adding more children to the household. I'm glad my kids have each other but I don't think anyone should ever feel guilty about not reproducing.

I don't think you should expect the decision to suddenly become clear--it's never clear--but I think you should find a way to relax and not spool yourself up too much over these issues. If you can I think you should try to relax about the gender issue as well. I have GD, you have GD, everyone here knows what that absence feels like, but separately from that there is nothing awful about raising two boys.

[atomic sagebrush]

No, that is NOT what I said (regarding genetics). In fact I have said the opposite on many occasions, that gender is NOT genetic in the way that we think about it - it is very, very unlikely to be a heritable trait and there is complicated science and math backing this up. Starting with how such a trait could have possibly come to be (because humans have lived in small tribes historically, how could such a trait have possibly evolved, it would quickly spread through the genome and the gender ratio would be completely out of balance), secondly because of all the men that have ever lived only 40% of them have survived to have living ancestors today (80% of all women that ever lived have living ancestors today) so any gene that linked itself to male offspring would be putting itself at a huge disadvantage to begin with, and finally because men so much more often are killed off young, any gene that linked itself to male offspring would run an astronomical risk of completely being wiped out in one fell swoop. Genes are weirdly "smart" and they don't link themselves exclusively to things that put them at such an impossible disadvantage as "male only".

There may be qualities such as height, muscle mass, etc. that may be somewhat linked with gender and genetics, but if a tall man married a short woman and had short, slight sons, those short sons would NOT be at a reproductive advantage and thus it would make more sense for their offspring to be more female dominant. It is all about what gives the genes the best chance of being handed down to future generations and the best chance lies with remaining flexible and open to receiving signals from the environment and conceiving the gender with the better shot. It makes NO sense for a gene to link to only one gender or another.

[atomic sagebrush]

I too am concerned about your anxiety level but at the same time I have found, with my anxiety, the longer I drag things out, the higher the anxiety becomes. It grows and grows and does NOT improve with time. I suspect that if you postpone the decision, it won't get any easier and may even get worse. But that is just me and you may be different.

My opinion for whatever it is worth is that I concur that an only child boy is also something that I really, really wanted to avoid based on my personal observations. I'm not trying to color your decision but just that I have formed a similar opinion from my own life experience. It is not impossible to raise a male only child well, I'm sure, but it's just not been my experience that they turn out very good. :/ I think boys should come in pairs like shoes. :) (But yes trifecta has it so right that there is no reason to ever feel GUILTY on behalf of others for following your own heart.)

I think you're overthinking the 2 boys idea. I had my first two boys for 13 years before my little batch came along and while I of course love all my children equally and my oldest son is and will forever be my baby, my second son and I have a very special relationship that I cannot imagine not experiencing. They have both always been unbelievably sweet, loving, and supportive sons and I can't imagine life without them. It's like you're saying no to a new best friend that you don't even know yet.

They are only little for a short while. The yelling and bouncing and running and hollering (and let me tell ya, girls do that too) that is only for the blink of an eye. If you've only been around multiple little boys at a party or event or the McDonald's playplace, well, of COURSE they're worked up and energetic then. That doesn't mean that there aren't many many other times where they are peaceful and calm and you can enjoy them one on one just like you can with any child boy or girl.

I think we talked about this already but the "35" idea is really not true. It's based on data from the 1600s that doctors are taught in medical school (without ever learning the source) and they report as fact when it isn't. As more and more women are successfully having healthy babies at older ages it's become impossible to believe this hype any more and the science does not support it. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/later-moms/52766-older-moms-must-read-article.html

[Babygirlquest]

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[Pink Pony]

Hi Complex, I just want you to know that what you are feeling is so normal for an "over thinker" type personality. When I heard I was having a boy for my first I was ok with that and that I would just try again as I always believed I was destined for a daughter, 7 years passed before I fell pregnant unexpectedly ( thought we couldn't due to a surgery on my husband) anyway, I was devastated to find out I was pregnant as I hadn't planned for my girl and was terrified beyond anything it would be another boy. I didn't tell anyone I was pregnant apart from hubby. I truly believed in my gut that the universe was giving me my girl and that my years of prayers were being answered. I was so scared for the scan at 19 weeks that I told my husband not to come because I knew I wouldnt be able to hide my dissapointment if it was another boy and I couldn't bare the thought of trying to pretend that I wasn't completely and utterly gutted!

Sure enough... It was another boy!!! Honestly I cried for about 2 months, everyone knew how much I wanted a girl so I felt I was being pitied by everyone when I told them it was a boy. Time passed and I the day arrived to have him and once he was there, my heart melted, you couldn't not love him. Before I was stressing about how I could possibly love another boy as I had one already, I didn't want too.

My point is.. I love my second boy more than life itself, he is a real mummy's boy and when I do look at him and he is smothering me in kisses I feel so guilty for thinking I didn't want him.

Honestly, GD doesn't go away because I still want my girl and I have been trying since October, on the diet since May 15 and still haven't fallen pregnant, but I will keep trying. I am 38 in June.

Sometimes I think when we are given the choice to plan, we overthink everything and it makes the decision so much harder. I think you should just try to better the odds of having your girl through the diet and exercise.

My view is that I feel like swaying is like preparing for an exam where you can study your heart out and be confident in your ability in what you can possibly do to achieve your goal, but then circumstances at that time might be more powerful than what u can control. Hope that makes sense.

I promise you that you can love another boy, I am living proof of it. Sometimes you have to face your fears because when you do, they don't seem that big anymore.

Overthinking kills your mind and your happiness! I constantly pull my mind out of the "what if " gutter everyday!

Hugs and good luck.

[tata]

I m a mom of 2 boys . Im like you was terrified of having a second boy and now my little man is the best . I know the feeling . I'm preg of my third and I'm terrified of having a third boy . I would love him but I would always miss having a girl . This is my last baby . My husband already scheduled his vasectomy. That is how serious he is about this issue , so I know how you feel . Well think positive . You will get your girl :) I'm on my third try so I guess I forgot about my disappointment .
Good luck



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[Kittybear]

I Hun, I just wanted to quickly add my perspective:

I was CONVINCED I was having my much wanted, longed for, swayed for daughter when I was preggo with #2; all the OWT said so. Well went for a private scan at 17 weeks (without telling anyon else) and there we saw, sure enough, the little turtle that said that my 'girl' was actually my boy. ;) I felt like such a fool for thinking I could change anything and I had all the thoughts of 'how can I go through pregnancy/ labour/ nursing/ sleepless nights (etc. etc. etc) all for ANOTHER BOY?!' and I totally pulled back from my (really pretty good pregnancy).

Let's ff to the birth as I don't want to give anymore time unnecessarily to that GD b*tch.... His birth was very good - very healing for me actually as my first experience had been quite traumatic. My body showed me that, whatever my brain was busying worrying about, this body could do it... The love I felt for him didn't hit me like a truck (as was my experience with ds1) but was like when you find something you love and had lost but didn't realise you had lost it.... because it was there all along :)

I can see why he exists. He is SO bright, curious, determined - even if 99% of the sperm around his egg were girls he elbowed them all out of the way he was so certain he had to exist ;) he is right for us and our family. He is completely different from ds1 and yet so similar.... It is fascinating to witness :)

This comes to the 2nd part of what I was going to say: I am an only child. I 'expected' I would repeat my experience and probably just end up with one girl myself (WRONG ;) ) and I'm pleased for that as I would not recommend an only child experience in the main.... As a kid I'd ask if I was getting s brother or sister (as most do and most get) until it became obvs that it wasn't going to happen. I was t sad though as I had loads of friends. As a teen, I'm not going to lie, I LOVED it! I was spoiled rotten! Haha! However there was a little part of me that felt 'lonely' I guess. As I have gotten older, this part has grown. Unless you are an only child yourself, you cannot understand the feeling that you are missing a part of your history and shared experiences by not having a sibling (girl or boy). I definitely miss it now than at any other point in my life so far, hence why I was determined, GD or not, to give my son a sibling... And truly, they are so super cute together and to see the was ds2 idolises his big bro... My heart swells with love and pride just at the thought :)

Of course it is your decision. I can assure you though, as you have already found, GD is a pregnancy ruining ar$e h0le BUT the love you will feel for your CHILD is absolute (boy OR girl). If you are unfortunate to go through GD again the pregnancy is the worse bit. Mine is BAD and as another poster said, if I can get through it, you can too! :) (and you could have a dd next so not even have to go through this!)

No child is defined by their gender. Yes there are masculine and feminine traits, but let's be frank, even as male and female heterosexual humans, we are all actually a mishmash of these traits (I for one know I have some parts of my thinking and behaviour that I would say could be described as more masculine and I am 100% a girl ;) )

Good luck with whatever you decide. There is no 'right and wrong'. We can only do our best with the info we have at hand. Xxx

[atomic sagebrush]

No not at all Complex, I'm sure I said something along the lines of "there may be something genetic involved in it" but I meant in terms of height or muscle or whatever. It just doesn't make sense that there would be boy genes, biologically speaking. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: I just want to reiterate what Kitty says - while I do have half-siblings that are 11 and 13 years younger, I was an only child all that time and I really, really do feel the lack of history and shared connection with a sibling, particularly on my dad's side since his daughter I never lived with and barely know at all. It is a strange experience to have no one you can compare notes with about things that happen. I also felt like my parents were overly invested and focused on everything I did or didn't/couldn't do, and I never had a moment of peace from them. Every expectation that parents have was put onto me. (I'm not saying you would do this of course) Good student, sports star, popular, cheerleader, etc etc etc everything was expected and it was too much for one child. They didn't do it deliberately, it was just a side effect of having only one, and being the first. Being an only wasn't good for me. But again, that was my experience and not a universal one.

[squigglepink]

:agree: I just want to reiterate what Kitty says - while I do have half-siblings that are 11 and 13 years younger, I was an only child all that time and I really, really do feel the lack of history and shared connection with a sibling, particularly on my dad's side since his daughter I never lived with and barely know at all. It is a strange experience to have no one you can compare notes with about things that happen. I also felt like my parents were overly invested and focused on everything I did or didn't/couldn't do, and I never had a moment of peace from them. Every expectation that parents have was put onto me. (I'm not saying you would do this of course) Good student, sports star, popular, cheerleader, etc etc etc everything was expected and it was too much for one child. They didn't do it deliberately, it was just a side effect of having only one, and being the first. Being an only wasn't good for me. But again, that was my experience and not a universal one.

This reminds me of a time many years ago, i went to Paris with a friend (only child). Day 4, walking in Paris, she kept walking behind me and didn't say much the whole day. I eventually asked her why she keeps walking behind me - she said she needed space! Lol! ;) I dont think she was used to spending that much time with another person! (shared a bed for 10 days total).. She's amazing however and loved being an only child and we are still friends to this day. She had an incredible relationship with her late mom and her dad! She went on to have a son and then a daughter. Go figure!!

[skillet04]

I am glad my first son finally got a sibling....sure a half sibling when he turned 13! Yes a baby brother but being around lots of "wild" boys doesnt bother me...they usually play a ballgame or videogame and yes those "stuntman" antics can cause heart palpitations...praying for a sense of self preservation to be in them ....
My oldest for a few years would always have a friend or two around and i liked knowing he had that "surrogate" sibling interaction....
Them being 13 yrs apart seems like raising two only children...hubs and i are aging as well and knowing it took 13yrs for this body to ovulate and conceive, no guarantee that ds#2 will get a younger sibling(s)...we are not preventing but not holding our breathe either.
My sister and i are half sisters but only 2yrs apart so seems like whole ;)

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[atomic sagebrush]

Complex, if you have a spare moment we have a new member who I feel is very much in the same place you are at. I think you guys may benefit from exchanging notes since you're both in identical places right now. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-desire/55004-preparing-disappointment-even-before-ttc.html#post830212

[atomic sagebrush]

I just want to clarify that my intention is not to cause hurt feelings for people with secondary infertility, I think there may be a very different mindset between people like my parents who choose to have only children because they think they'll be more impressive or something and then act like "Tiger Moms and Dads" with these sky high expectations that are too much for one child to fulfill. It just wasn't good for me and them and OUR dynamics, that's all. :)