Feeling sad.......

[1moregirl]

So I did a First Reponse on Friday and it looked good, then did another one this morning (both with FMU) and the second line this morning looks fainter than the one on Friday. Is this a sign that the pregnancy is not going to work out? I've only had one blood test so far and the beta was 50 (that was taken just over 3 week Mark). Now I'm scared this is going to turn out to be a chemical pregnancy or a pregnancy that is on its way out. Or is it possible these tests can vary like this? :( here is a pic of both Friday and today's tests.
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[ksmom]

Tests can vary in amount of dye and sensitivity, even those in the same box. It can also depend on how concentrated your urine was. NOT to scare you but with my chemical pregnancies, my tests did get lighter BUT they got lighter really fast, like as in a week after my BFP the line was almost nonexistent. Blood hcg levels are MUCH more reliable than a HPT. As for your beta result, you can't look at it in isolation and know if it's a "good" number without having a repeat draw to see if levels are rising. For example, with this baby my first beta was only 16 and I was told by the nurse that I'd likely miscarry again but then 72 hours later it increased to 86. I know how incredibly nerve-wracking it is in the early days, but please just take a deep breath and stop taking tests. It only worsens the anxiety overanalyzing the darkness of every line. I wish you a healthy and happy pregnancy. :)

[1moregirl]

Thanks sooo much for your reply KsMom. Yes I guess we just have to sit tight and hope and pray for the best, be also be prepared for the worst at the same time. Plus if I am going to miscarry again I would much rather it be sooner than later on at the 10 week Mark like last time. How did you manage to make it through your first trimester without too much anxiety? I do have a slip of paper for blood test to get tomorrow so will see what that beta level is I guess. Will try not to worry in the meantime. What will be will be anyway, regardless of how much worrying we do... Thanks again for sharing your experience. :) xx

[MrsGoodies]

Ok well i tried to post a pic of my hpt but i dont think it worked.

My lines were fading in & out all the way thru 12-16 dpo even though my betas were doubling. It drove me crazy ....and my dr crazy bc i was going in every 48-72 hrs until 6 weeks.

He said everything was great blah blah but he finally gave me an ultrasound when my levels hit 10,000...

All it did was cause me stress.

If did it again i would just chill out until 6 weeks and pretend my period was just late and go about my business instead of obsessing all the time bc in the end NONE of it helped or changed the outcome.

[oceancitymom]

I have had 3 miscarriages and in each one of them my line got progressively lighter. I was peeing obsessively on sticks. I think the darkness does matter, although yes, it can vary with the time of day/concentration. Fingers crossed for you!

[ksmom]

Thanks sooo much for your reply KsMom. Yes I guess we just have to sit tight and hope and pray for the best, be also be prepared for the worst at the same time. Plus if I am going to miscarry again I would much rather it be sooner than later on at the 10 week Mark like last time. How did you manage to make it through your first trimester without too much anxiety? I do have a slip of paper for blood test to get tomorrow so will see what that beta level is I guess. Will try not to worry in the meantime. What will be will be anyway, regardless of how much worrying we do... Thanks again for sharing your experience. :) xx

I just took it one day at a time. Every day I would tell myself TODAY I am pregnant and that is what matters. Also, having an ultrasound at 6 weeks really helped ease my mind a bit because there was a strong heartbeat and baby measured spot on. My anxiety is getting better now that I'll be in the 2nd trimester tomorrow. Remember, today you are pregnant so celebrate it!

[nuthinbutpink]

How many dpo was the 50?

[signingmommyfor3]

It does matter but it doesn't. At some point your urine is so concentrated with HCG that the line will actually be lighter. This time around I only got a positive on a digital then gave in at 6 weeks because I was worried that I wasn't haven't any symptoms and the FRER line were very very light but went yesterday and bub is there with a strong hb of 171.

[1moregirl]

How many dpo was the 50?

Hi there nuthinbutpink. My blood was taken on the 14th June when I got the 50 beta level, and that was 12DPO. I've just had more blood taken this morning (all the standard preg blood tests they do) for a beta level and other things. Fingers crossed that today's beta is a good one. I'm 18DPO today so it will have a 6 day difference from the last blood draw. I don't have nausea yet but light-headed, some mild period cramping off and on (none today so far), tummy bloating, sore breasts, and hungrier than usual. For me, the nausea usually kicks in at week 6 which is still another 2 weeks away yet. all early days so just trying to take one day at a time and not stress about it. Nothing I can do either way anyways. :)

[1moregirl]

It does matter but it doesn't. At some point your urine is so concentrated with HCG that the line will actually be lighter. This time around I only got a positive on a digital then gave in at 6 weeks because I was worried that I wasn't haven't any symptoms and the FRER line were very very light but went yesterday and bub is there with a strong hb of 171.

Congratulations Signing!!! That's great news! So are you 6 weeks or further than that? That is a nice strong heartbeat. When I had my 6 week scan last year (prior to miscarrying) they said there was a heartbeat but they didn't give me a measurement of it. Maybe it wasn't that great? I got a nice strong positive on a FR digital at 10DPO - no lines one that one tho, it just said 'YES+'. I shouldn't have bothered with doing these line ones as they've just caused me a bit of anxiety. Anyway, thanks for posting and good luck for you with this pregnancy Hun. Hope it's a healthy sticky Bub you've got in there. :)

[signingmommyfor3]

Congratulations Signing!!! That's great news! So are you 6 weeks or further than that? That is a nice strong heartbeat. When I had my 6 week scan last year (prior to miscarrying) they said there was a heartbeat but they didn't give me a measurement of it. Maybe it wasn't that great? I got a nice strong positive on a FR digital at 10DPO - no lines one that one tho, it just said 'YES+'. I shouldn't have bothered with doing these line ones as they've just caused me a bit of anxiety. Anyway, thanks for posting and good luck for you with this pregnancy Hun. Hope it's a healthy sticky Bub you've got in there. :)

I'm 8weeks 1day now. Thank you! And crafts to you. Until yesterday I was a nervous wreak and thought I was miscarrying again. It was great to see and hear.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's all about the concentration in your urine at this stage of the game. That can vary pretty dramatically even going back and forth from pos to neg sometimes. Obviously you don't want to see a dark pos go to negative at like 8 weeks or whatever but this early on it does not mean anything.

[1moregirl]

I don't know what's the matter with me this morning....hormones? I've been crying off and on all morning soooo far. My poor older two kids have seen me as well and asked what's wrong. I had one of those stupid First Response tests left you see so I used my first wee of the day, which was nice and yellow, and the test is still positive but the second line is fainter than the last one was. This shouldn't be happening. I'm 19DPO today. Surely these lines should be getting darker instead of fainter if everything was OK? Clearly I'm thinking the worst already. And what makes it all worse is that I'm going through this on my own because I haven't told DH. I had another blood test done yesterday but I don't know if the beta results take one or two days to come back. My beta was 50 on 13DPO. I can't bear the thought that if I lose this one too I will have had more losses than I have actual live babies. And I know many other ladies have experienced this and loads more losses than myself...how do we get past that? I'm already beating myself up because I had slacked off with the ubiquinol towards the end last time as I just never seemed to have the money to buy it. Anyway, here is a pic of those three tests. The bottom test without red writing on it is this morning's test. All three control lines are the same darkness...only thing changing is my second positive line. I really believed that if everything was OK this morning's line would be nice and dark. Now I'm just sitting here crying like I'm already grieving.
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[1moregirl]

Also,with these tests it also says in instructions that you should only dip the sticks into your urine for 5 seconds. Could it give you a darker positive if you've held the stick in the urine for longer than 5 seconds? Just wondering if that's the case as Friday's test looks quite yellow in the test window, whereas the others do not. I guess I'm just grasping at straws. :(

[MrsGoodies]

I'm very very sorry 1moregirl, but it looks like you are having a very early miscarriage. :(

At 19 dpo those tests should be dark, dark... like they should be in reverse with the bottom first and then Friday for today.

You will probably start to bleed within the next couple weeks as your betas have to reach zero first.

[1moregirl]

I think you're right MrsG. Just got back from my doctor and my beta from yesterday was only 64. It should be about 500 from now. She even said I may need a D & C. It's soooo devastating and I can't stop crying about it. I will probably have to tell DH now as well to top it all off. I really thought I had nailed it this time. I just don't want to haemorrhage again. And I don't think I can put myself and my family through this again either, so it's probably the end of my ttc journey. I'm heartbroken. :(

[MrsGoodies]

No way do you need a D&C with betas that low!

Your Dr is a quack!

You will very likely bleed ON YOUR OWN within the next week or so. I give your chance of hemmorrage 0.00000000000001%

Seriously, that supid dr of yours needs to give their head a shake!

[essnce629]

I'm so sorry 1more. My beta with #3 was 48 at 12dpo and my doctor said it was low. It was 520 at 17dpo which was perfectly normal and my digital CB tests progressed nicely from 1-2 wks, 2-3 wks, and even 3+ weeks right on time. I still miscarried just shy of 7 weeks and my beta was 6000 at that point, which was definitely low then. Bleeding started on it's own and I miscarried naturally.

You will not need a D&C and at this early of pregnancy it shouldn't be much more than a heavy period.

I'm so sorry. I know how much it sucks. I would be devastated. (((HUGS)))

[purple]

I'm so sorry :(

I don't think you need a d&c. I also lost lots of blood with my m/c last year and needed 2 units of blood so when I started to m/c at 10wks earlier this year I was quite nervous. Because I was further along I was advised to have a d&c or have it medically managed in hospital as a patient. I opted for medical management and was closely monitored. I had a lot less blood loss even though the baby measured 3 weeks bigger than the other m/c and I was a week further along so every m/c is different.

[1moregirl]

Thanks lovely ladies. I feel a lot more reassured now and I feel a bit relieved that this loss will be happening earlier on than last time. I have a good friend coming along to my app tomorrow with Ob/gyn/FS and he will probably go over my full blood work results and tell me where I go from there. Keep on slogging it out for Goldie or move on and just stick with my three precious Cherubs. I'm not sure at this stage. I'm now worried about how many times I would have to go through a loss to get that healthy pregnancy. Maybe it's just not in the cards for me? Anyway, I certainly have felt irritable and emotional today so maybe period will commence shortly. I hope so....I just want it over and done with. I have to have another blood draw on Thursday and back to my GP on Friday to get the beta reading (I really will now be hoping that it has dropped below 50 instead of going up further as I don't want to be left waiting in limbo). Thanks for all of your support and kind words, and for sharing your own experiences as it helps immensely. I probably just need to toughen up a bit in this ttc thing but I had already pictured myself this next summer with my three children plus a little baby girl (or boy). So when the doctor tells you, "it's really just a bunch of cells at this stage" you think to yourself "it might just be a bunch of cells right now, but it had the potential to become a live baby...my flesh and blood..." What if there is just no Goldie the Golden egg for me? What if the rest of my eggs are all just old and dodgy? :(

[atomic sagebrush]

I do want to reiterate that even though in this case the pregnancy test did indicate a pregnancy having issues that is not necessarily the case and I don't want you worrying over pee sticks at this stage of gestation as a general rule.

No one can know if Goldie is still on her way or not. You did have pretty spectacular numbers though, much higher than I expected you to, and that's the best indication we can have about your potential to get and stay pregnant.

i think you're asking yourself a valid question there about if it's worth the cost. You may very well get pregnant and have a healthy baby but it may take months of agony to get there. It may not be worth it and only you can answer that. I wish you all the wisdom in the world because it's such a hard decision to make.

I agree you should not need a D and C at this stage, I suspect doctors do see people who think they are a certain gestation when they aren't and that was probably why she said that. (you could have possibly been further than you realize and so she wanted to prepare you for the possibility)

[1moregirl]

I do want to reiterate that even though in this case the pregnancy test did indicate a pregnancy having issues that is not necessarily the case and I don't want you worrying over pee sticks at this stage of gestation as a general rule.

No one can know if Goldie is still on her way or not. You did have pretty spectacular numbers though, much higher than I expected you to, and that's the best indication we can have about your potential to get and stay pregnant.

i think you're asking yourself a valid question there about if it's worth the cost. You may very well get pregnant and have a healthy baby but it may take months of agony to get there. It may not be worth it and only you can answer that. I wish you all the wisdom in the world because it's such a hard decision to make.

I agree you should not need a D and C at this stage, I suspect doctors do see people who think they are a certain gestation when they aren't and that was probably why she said that. (you could have possibly been further than you realize and so she wanted to prepare you for the possibility)

Thanks Atomic. I think my GP is just aware of how petrified I was of a repeat occurrence of last year's miscarriage. I just keep wondering if I have any good quality eggs left at all in there and how many more tries it would take me to get a healthy pregnancy with a baby at the end of it. Clearly the whole IVF thing isn't for me anyway due to lack of money and lack of participation on DH's behalf. Maybe it's my hormones contributing to all of this as well? I don't know, but I'm not going to start torturing myself with 'what if' scenarios. I think it all boils down to how much I can take emotionally...I really have to weigh up if going through all of this and risking my anxiety levels going up is worth it. I'm just not sure if I can put myself through it again. And what if I just kept having miscarriage after miscarriage if I was to keep trying? I could take other supps like DHEA, but then that is supposed to sway boy. Anyway, my mind is all in a bit of a muddle today so I will finish up for now. I have to go to my app soon so will update again after that. Is it worth drinking raspberry leaf tea to help get the miscarriage started? Or can that make you bleed a lot as well? Thanks. Xxoo

[MrsGoodies]

Red raspberry leaf tea TONES the uterus (ie. makes it contract and expell the tissue more efficiently)

It doesnt START a miscarriage or labor as women are advised to drink it in third trimester in preparation for labor not as a catalyst.

I drank 2-3 cups per day (iced RRL tea) starting as soon as there was no HB and carried thru from when my mc started 8 days later until my bleeding stopped so about 3 weeks total. My cramps were rythmic and controlled and the blood loss was managable. I highly recommend it as it was my easiest miscarriage as far as m/c go...even easier than my 6-7 week loss where i wasnt drinking the tea and the bleeding would come in fits of gush. Stop. Gush. Stop. All over the place.

How to Use Red Raspberry Leaf Herb | Wellness Mama (http://wellnessmama.com/5107/raspberry-leaf-herb-profile/)

[1moregirl]

can anyone take a guess as to what language that is in the above post by Vienthong? Or is it some sort of spam message?

[squigglepink]

I think its spam. Its on our Jolly July thread as well! Such a pain when they waste our posting space and interrupt our discussions. Thinking of you in your personal matter and hope it all works out for you. Fingers crossed for your golden egg too xx

[atomic sagebrush]

For reasons we don't understand even in women with plenty of ability to get pregnant naturally, IVF is not good results over a certain age. Even with proven fertility and relatively good pretesting anyway. WE just don't respond as well to the meds.

There are tons and tons of women desperate to fall pregnant taking everything under the sun. These things may make some difference for IVF when you need to make 20 eggs but to make one egg, I really do not think they help much if at all and all have additional risks and side effects far beyond possibly swaying blue - like delaying ovulation or even stopping it!

I'd give the RRLT a go, it does cause some cramping (at least it did for me) and maybe it might help.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think its spam. Its on our Jolly July thread as well! Such a pain when they waste our posting space and interrupt our discussions. Thinking of you in your personal matter and hope it all works out for you. Fingers crossed for your golden egg too xx

It's just spam. We delete it as quickly as we can but sometimes takes us a minute.

DON'T click on any links they post, that's for sure.

[1moregirl]

Beta level from yesterday's blood draw was only 16 so hopefully bleeding will commence very soon and will be just like a normal period but maybe just a little bit heavier and longer than usual. So far I have just had a bit of discharge in pad that is a pale French mustard type colour (sorry for tmi, as I know it sounds revolting) - is this normal before bleeding starts? I'm feeling quite scared After last year's miscarriage. :(

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, it's called serous fluid and is a component of blood, it's common to have it just before AF or a loss begins.

[MrsGoodies]

Hi 1moregirl,

I am so glad your hcg levels are dropping so quickly. When i had my 7 week mc my hpt kept getting lighter but the beta numbers were rising....slowly but rising....21...23....56....65....85... It was driving me bonkers!

Finally the bleeding started ...brown spotting at first and then like a very heavy period and my beta numbers dropped.

I think you will be surprised at how "normal" this mc will be just like a regular period.

[1moregirl]

Thanks for your replies Atomic and MrsG. So far so good. The next stage was some brown spotting and discharge, then this morning the bleeding started and it hasn't been too bad. Just like a period...I'm not bleeding too badly - it is nearly midday here and I haven't needed to change pad yet and I haven't needed to take any pain relief either. On one hand, this freaks me out and makes me worried I have uterine scarring a bit and that's why I'm not bleeding too much and why this one didn't stick. Or am I just paranoid? Anyway, if only every miscarriage could be this cruisey (touch wood)...I think may just be nuts enough to try again. Should I try again straight after this? Or would that be too soon? Isn't the risk of miscarriage again lower if you ttc again straight after a miscarriage? I dunno...

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh that's good I'm glad.

Again, I have witnessed hundreds of women's miscarriages and I have never seen anyone with scarring from a D and C.

IT's early and I think you are fine to try to catch the first egg. Most doctors would allow you to TTC now. A few like to be more conservative but they are often trying to just cover their butts and don't put a premium on women's fertility.

Risk of miscarriage is not lower after a loss, it's very complicated really and I think getting into it all would just give you more and more to worry about.

[1moregirl]

Thanks Atomic. It's day 2 today of the bleeding and it's ok. I took a couple of panadol yesterday coz the pain was a bit much but otherwise it's ok. I seem to bleed more into the loo when I go to pee, but not as much in pad. I've been a bit teary and emotional today. I think coz I've had my Mum here staying for a couple of nights and she was trying to tell me just to give up and accept that I'm too old to keep trying for that last baby, to be grateful for the three I already have, what if I got pregnant again and had another 'life-threatening miscarriage' or a second trimester loss due to aged egg. Maybe I should just give up and quit now instead of potentially subjecting myself to loss after loss? I don't know....I do know that I was really desperate for it to be a girl. If I was going to try this again should I pay to get a personalised plan atomic with a diet I can stick to? My diet has been a real let down to be honest...I'm pretty hopeless. How come my pregnancy made it to 8 weeks last year but barely 5 weeks this time? I don't get it...its soooo darned confusing and I keep going over what I've done and what I didn't do, etc. I hadn't been exercising at all, my diet probably has not been a highly fertile inducing one. Any ideas what I should do? Should I just call it quits and admit defeat? Or should I try again and go all out in one last attempt for a girl with a diet I can stick to and the one shot at pos OPK, etc? I don't know and for the life of me, I can't find a decision that I can be at peace with. I do know though that if I try again I have to UP my intake of the ubiquinol and consistently take the Elevit daily for my own peace of mind. I get worried that I could be doing more as there a few ladies on that 40s fbk page I'm on that keep pushing for us ladies in our 40s to get onto progesterone and baby aspirin as soon as we get a BFP (which I don't like the idea of). If only there was some thing in our OPK tests that could tell us if that egg on its way was a good Goldie egg or an old dodgy one...:(

[essnce629]

I don't think the weeks at miscarriage mean much. Like I said before, my best friend who had 2 pregnancies and boys easily went on to have 3 miscarriages in a row after swaying. She was 33 years old with the miscarriages vs in her 20's with her boys. Her miscarriages were at 12, 6, and 5 weeks. She did see an RE and have a hysteroscopy after her 3rd miscarriage and she did have adhesions and inflammation that the RE said was from her 12 week D&C. RE broke up the adhesions manually and put her on a strong course of antibiotics. She got pregnant the cycle after the hysteroscopy with a healthy baby girl who is now 8 weeks old. If it's really stressing you out, just do the hysteroscopy for peace of mine. I'm actually having one done in 3 weeks.

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[atomic sagebrush]

But we ALL have that risk really regardless of age. There are tons of girls on here who in their 20's and 30s had dreadful losses that ended up in the hospital, had to have tubes removed, etc.

Personalized plans do not come with diet. We would have to charge a bazillion dollars for me to make a personalized diet plan for everyone. I work with you in the coaching forums to iron out the diet stuff as much as you need me to.

I am on that FB page and about 97% of them are idiots doling out terrible advice (and a large reason why I quit going on there is that it was such an uphill slog against bad information and I have enough to do just on this site.) Progesterone has never been shown to improve your chances of getting or staying pregnant. Aspirin, in addition to I STRONGLY believe playing a huge part in why your loss was so terrible the last time, has not ever been proven to help anyone without clotting disorders get or sway pregnant, and some data even indicates it may even CAUSE miscarriages for some (in addition to having serious health risks to you personally)

Not I nor anyone else can know why one pregnancy ends at 5 weeks vs. 8. Most likely is just been a different chromosomal abnormality with a different ability to hang on till it wasn't able to any longer. :heart:

[MrsGoodies]

I agree about the progesterone NOT helping pregnancy.

Progesterone is produced by the corpus luteum YES, but there is a feedback mechanism between the CL and the embryo after implantation which keeps progesterone levels high!

If an embryo is healthy, it sends signals to the CL to keep pumping out progesterone and levels stay high,

If an embryo is not healthy, the CL doesn't receive the signals and begins to shut down and drop progesterone levels which in turn begins the process of miscarriage. Taking progesterone artificially can prolong miscarriages.

This is why my progesterone levels were great and then started dropping off by 5-6 weeks. I was on 300 mg progesterone per day and my levels got raised but the embryo was not normal (proven by genetic testing) and the mc was delayed until 10 weeks about a week after i stopped the supplements.

[1moregirl]

Atomic - I didn't take aspirin with that 10 week miscarriage pregnancy, but I did take cranberry which you said is a blood thinner. I'll never take it again, that's for sure. And I won't be taking aspirin or progesterone either, unless it was advised as necessary by my doctor, which it hasn't been. I'm staying off that 40s Facebook page for a while now because quite a few of the ladies have had miscarriages lately, even some second trimester ones and I just find it too disturbing to read about.

Essence - can I ask why you are having the hysteroscopy Hun? I would have it, but I am just scared of the GA, as the last two surgeries I've had (gallbladder removal and D & C), I have woken up from the GA finding it difficult to breath (even though I have an air mask on). It scared the hell out of me both times now. My father has since told me that my Grandmother had an allergy to opium-based GA, so that has made me feel even more scared about it. Yet I had a gastroscopy a few years ago (with a 'twilight' anaesthetic - much lighter than a GA) and I woke up fine. And I do admit since my D & C last year my period pains have been minimal, my bleeding a lot lighter, and I see lots of tiny clots on the pads (yuck...tmi sorry).

Anyway, I think I need to take one cycle off after this just to really weigh everything up and work out what I want to do from here. MrsG - maybe I will be more fertile after this miscarriage, but that doesn't guarantee a good egg with it does it? If only it could....

I don't know if I'm being negative here, but I'm just worried that I don't have ANY good eggs left and that if I keep trying I am just setting myself up for repeat losses. But then, maybe the egg that was just fertilised was a good egg, but it couldn't implant due to scarring? I don't know. If only this could all be easier.

I hadn't been on here for a few days as I got struck down with gastro 2 nights again so one whole night of vomiting (with period pains in between). And then last night our birthday boy got struck down with it. Just at the start of our school holidays. Oh well... As far as this loss goes, I am doing really well. I had prayed to God that if I had been going to lose this one too, that it would happen earlier on, so I was relieved with that. I'd decided that whatever happened with the pregnancy, I had to be OK for my other 3 cherubs.

[1moregirl]

Also, do you think it might be a good idea for me to suggest a HSG (those scans they do where they inject something into your uterus to get better look) to my Ob/gyn/FS prior to considering a hysteroscopy?

[MrsGoodies]

Also, do you think it might be a good idea for me to suggest a HSG (those scans they do where they inject something into your uterus to get better look) to my Ob/gyn/FS prior to considering a hysteroscopy?


No i definitely would not.

1) HSG is to determine if your tubes are open. You just had a pg so we KNOW your tubes are open.

2) HSG injects radioactive dye into you and then they X-ray your pelvis....you dont need any extra radiation at your age

3) it is painful

[essnce629]

1moregirl-- I have a golf ball sized endometrioma/chocolate cyst (blood and tissue filled cyst) on my left ovary that they are going to remove surgically. They put me on high dose progesterone hormone replacement therapy to see if it would shrink it but it did nothing. The pills have allowed me to skip two periods which was also a goal in order to build up my iron stores that I was depleting every month with my periods. My doctor will be looking for endometriosis in other places as well and she's doing the hysteroscopy to look for fibroids inside my uterus because I have super heavy periods each month and a "lumpy uterus."

You do not need to be put under general anesthesia for a hysteroscopy. My best friend was awake for the entire procedure.

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[atomic sagebrush]

I agree about the progesterone NOT helping pregnancy.

Progesterone is produced by the corpus luteum YES, but there is a feedback mechanism between the CL and the embryo after implantation which keeps progesterone levels high!

If an embryo is healthy, it sends signals to the CL to keep pumping out progesterone and levels stay high,

If an embryo is not healthy, the CL doesn't receive the signals and begins to shut down and drop progesterone levels which in turn begins the process of miscarriage. Taking progesterone artificially can prolong miscarriages.

This is why my progesterone levels were great and then started dropping off by 5-6 weeks. I was on 300 mg progesterone per day and my levels got raised but the embryo was not normal (proven by genetic testing) and the mc was delayed until 10 weeks about a week after i stopped the supplements.

:agree: thanks you worded this just perfectly.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh I'm sorry I thought you were taking cranberry plus aspirin, I am obviously mixed up, but yes aspirin is a blood thinner just like the cranberry so the effects are the same and I would not recommend for you.

The odds are very much that the egg was a bummer and that this was not a scarring issue. I'm sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear but it's just statistically speaking that is the case.

You and I are of similar age and I have not had a D and C but also find my periods very light too. I think it may just be where we are hormonally. I mention this because I feel like you're looking for evidence of scarring when it's probably just a natural change. I did get pregnant with my daughter after a month where I had a super duper barely there AF (sorry TMI!!) so I do know it does not mean that you can't still get preggo. :)

[MrsGoodies]

I agree Atomic.

Lighter periods just show how much the lining built up in the cycle prior.

High Estrogen = Thick lining = Heavy period

But as we age our estrogen levels fall, less CM produced, more vaginal dryness etc., also shorter follicular phases all add up to less estrogen and lighter periods.

I used to have a good 4-5 days of EWCM and now I'm lucky if I have a single day and I have to dig around up for it. It used to be a great clue on how close O was and now I haven't even got that to rely on...boo! I obviously have some up there or I couldn't have gotten pg but still it drives me buggy.

But low estrogen also sways girl so that is in our favor. Yippiee!

[MrsGoodies]

:agree: thanks you worded this just perfectly.

I would only add about the progesterone that the reason IVF women have to take it for 8 weeks is because when they suction out the eggs, ALL of the fluid is removed as well as a lot of the supporting granulosa cells which damages/destroys the corpus Luteum...... so RE's need an artificial mechanism to replace the job of the CL.

I guess so many women see hi-techers using progesterone to "support" pregnancy they assume it is accomplishing the same in natural cycles but it is not.

[1moregirl]

Thanks ladies. I'm just scared I think. I mean, this most recent loss was disappointing, but it was doable. Yet, anything over the 8 week Mark where you have a loss and need a D & C...I'm petrified of that. I feel like I almost have PTSD an I guess my biggest fear out of all this ttc business and miscarriage is death. My death, and leaving behind my 3 sweet little ones. I have a fear of hospitals, ambulances and I just don't know if I can continue to do it. If only I knew what the next egg was going to be like. I do know with my miscarriage pregnancies (the two of them) that I had light-headedness (almost dizziness) from early on and I'm quite sure I never had that with my three healthy pregnancies. Wonder if that's a sign for me it's a dodgy egg? I don't know. I just wish I could decide one way or the other and have peace with that decision. :(

[1moregirl]

1moregirl-- I have a golf ball sized endometrioma/chocolate cyst (blood and tissue filled cyst) on my left ovary that they are going to remove surgically. They put me on high dose progesterone hormone replacement therapy to see if it would shrink it but it did nothing. The pills have allowed me to skip two periods which was also a goal in order to build up my iron stores that I was depleting every month with my periods. My doctor will be looking for endometriosis in other places as well and she's doing the hysteroscopy to look for fibroids inside my uterus because I have super heavy periods each month and a "lumpy uterus."

You do not need to be put under general anesthesia for a hysteroscopy. My best friend was awake for the entire procedure.

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Thanks for replying Essence. How did your friend tolerate the hysteroscopy without the GA do you know? Did she get a local aesthetic into her cervix? I will def find out about that when my FS comes back from his leave. It's the GA that terrifies me the most. After my third baby was born I had a strange growth on my face (some sort of cyst) and in the end I had to see a plastic surgeon and get it removed. They wanted to give me a GA just for that but I was like....no way, so they just gave me a few local injections in my face and then cut it out and stitched it up. It wasn't pleasant, but I managed. It was down to money at the time though, as a GA was going to cost me a $500 fee, which I didn't have to pay if I opted out of the GA. Anyway, I will look into it. Doctors just seem to want to give us a general anaesthetic for every little surgical procedure they do on us these days. Anyway, if I don't have any scarring or adhesions, then they won't have to do anything too painful anyway right?

[atomic sagebrush]

I would only add about the progesterone that the reason IVF women have to take it for 8 weeks is because when they suction out the eggs, ALL of the fluid is removed as well as a lot of the supporting granulosa cells which damages/destroys the corpus Luteum...... so RE's need an artificial mechanism to replace the job of the CL.

I guess so many women see hi-techers using progesterone to "support" pregnancy they assume it is accomplishing the same in natural cycles but it is not.

:agree: :agree: :agree: and weirdly it is controversial in HT rounds too because they are not sure it is helping people get and stay pregnant even in IVF!!! Totally agree there is a real reason why tehy use in IVF

[atomic sagebrush]

I had extremely high levels of dizziness and lightheadedness nearly fainting with only my last pregnancy in the first trimester and I did end up with a baby. It was just a pregnancy symptom, please don't go looking for signs of bad eggs because you really cannot tell.

[1moregirl]

What do you think the odds are that my next BFP will be a dodgy egg as well?

[MrsGoodies]

What do you think the odds are that my next BFP will be a dodgy egg as well?

50 %

So i guess it would depend if you are a glass is half -empty or half-full kinda gal....:think:

[atomic sagebrush]

What do you think the odds are that my next BFP will be a dodgy egg as well?

No one can know that and the odds are really meaningless anyway. Embrace your inner Han Solo..."Never tell me the odds!" :smoke:

[1moregirl]

Can you have a shot at answering this one thing I'm really confused about? Last year in June I got a BFP first proper attempt, but miscarriaged. Then I was taking ubiquinol and it took me 5 cycles to get a BFP, but still it was another dodgy egg. Surely the five eggs that passed that cycle were dodgy as well and that's why they didn't get fertilised? Why can't dodgy old eggs just be completely unfertilisable, so that when we do get a BFP we know it's a good egg? Not fair. Also, do you think I'm risking my life ttc again? Do women die from miscarrying?

[atomic sagebrush]

No, that's not necessarily true, it may have been just that sperm didn't meet egg those months.

It is believed that eggs may have the ability to self-correct for abnormalities, and so fertilization can occur but the embryo may be able to fix or repair them (this is possibly why there seems to be a disproportional number of abnormals with IVF - some of those may have self-corrected in utero.) It may be that we older moms have not only more dodgy eggs but also a reduced ability for embryos made from those eggs to self-correct.

People do die in childbirth or from complications of pregnancy, it's not common but it happens (and far more often than anyone dying from a miscarraige, which is also possible, but not likely). Every time we get pregnant we do "risk our lives" a bit but at the same time people do things that risk their lives all the time. You have a higher risk of death every time you get into your car to drive to the grocery store, statistically speaking.

[sharon]

So sorry 1more girl + fingers crossed for this month for you x

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