Am I losing too much weight? Also diet vs. exercise question

[A Mad Swayentist]

Delurking yet again. We will finally FINALLY start to TTC end of October 2016! I'm obsessed since I've wanted a baby for 10 years, and even though I'm happy with the decisions we've made before TTC (career changes and financial security, and getting DH ready to be a father), I am so excited to finally just get going on seeing if we actually can make babies! For numerous personal reasons I've decided to try and add a light pink sway to my TTC planning - I'd love a son as awesome as DH, but my heart is set on a girl for our first (and possibly our only). The only things I've done so far starting in June are switching to nearly-vegetarian diet from a more "flexitarian" diet (I did eat meat about once a week and fish once or twice a week before; now I'm mostly eating legumes, grains or soy for protein, low-fat dairy or eggs a few times a week and am allowing myself clams or oysters no more than twice a month, for a little lo-cal B12 boost), doing only daily folic acid and a teensy amount of iron once a week(I have a history of low-iron stores and low vitamin d (though my doc tests me in Feb, which obviously skews my D #s), but I've spent the spring weaning myself off the D - summer is my "happy" time of year, so I'm not feeling any ill effects from no supplemental D), and dropping my weekly strength training (though I know Atomic disagrees on this - honestly this is just a time-saving move for a stressful job situation and I'm hoping to reintroduce low-impact strength training 1-2x/week mid-pregnancy). Finally, I began skipping breakfast (only having black coffee) and avoiding oats in June. In April and May I started weighing myself weekly because I knew I was starting at a low-normal BMI. I'm a little surprised to find I've lost 10 lbs in one month! I'm a beanpole, so this only shifts my BMI down to 19.4 from 20.9. But as someone who's never conceived before and is turning 34 in August, I'm a bit nervous about starting out TTC underweight and/or undernourished. Also, I'd really like to add exercise to my sway, but I'm guessing I've got to up my calories to do so. I haven't counted calories and haven't stopped myself from snacking after lunch/before dinner, so I'm guessing I'm at 1700-1800 cals/day (pretty sure I was 2000-2200 when I was eating breakfast and high-fat dairy - I haven't tracked calories recently but I have a good idea from previous times where I've tracked them). I think given my activity level I won't drop too much more weight if I just keep things where they are (I've certainly been this skinny before in my life), but I'd like to try and add 30 mins of power walking or jogging in the morning to my 30 minute walk to work, to equal 60 mins cardio total (and do a 60 minute walk, jog or bikeride on one of my days off from work every week, to equal 6 days of 60 mins cardio). I'm going to continue to weigh myself weekly, but I'm not sure if there are any other tweaks I should do before upping my exercise, or if I shouldn't bother? Is 60min frequent cardio + higher cals a better sway tactic than lower cals without formal cardio?

And yes, I know some ladies on here have conceived at very low BMIs. Personally, I'm just not comfortable with dropping below 18.5, which for me is only 7 lbs away. I'm tracking BBT now, to see if there's any wonkiness in my cycles (when I ovulate and luteal phase normalcy, esp since we hope like everyone to get a BFP quickly!). So yeah, any input on cardio + higher cals vs. lower cals without cardio would be appreciated. I've seen Atomic frequently reference cardio 6-7x/week as one of the best "simple" sway tactics, but how important is it for those of us who have fast metabolisms?

[Beau82]

Are you eating many carbs? Just from what you've described, I can't see how you'd be at 1700-1800 cals daily. Maybe you would benefit from counting calories just to make sure you are getting enough. Even if only for a few days. Some people overestimate how much they actually eat and when they do count, they find they are eating much less.

To answer your question, yes exercise is a great sway tactic. So it's definitely beneficial to add in daily cardio if you can and then up cals so you don't lose anymore weight. You should maybe up cals anyway since it sounds like you're losing pretty quickly and still have a ways to go before your first attempt.

[Erin514]

If losing too much weight is a concern for you, I agree that you should definitely track for a while to make sure you're getting enough. And yes, you will need to up cals more to stop weight loss if you decide to exercise, but I don't think this will hurt your sway. Think about it, it can't be the case that you magically get a girl at 1600 cals and a boy at 1800 cals. Swaying is about telling your body times are either lean or plentiful, and what determines that is whether you're getting just enough or way extra (both in quantity/total cals and quality/macros) for your body type and activity level. Some people only need 1500 to maintain weight, some need 1800, some need 2000. If the number of calories swayed regardless of anything else, we would expect that boy moms should all be big and girl moms should all be skinny, which isn't the case. Don't be scared to eat the number of calories that you need to stop losing weight! :)

[A Mad Swayentist]

Hah, thank you guys so much! My inclination was that I should be upping calories, maybe making sure I had at least a 200cal snack every afternoon. If exercise is a good sway tactic, then it sounds like it's worth higher-calorie intake to maintain a fertile (not too low) weight.

Here's a quick calorie count estimate:

Lunch -
Lentil soup with brown and white rice (my go-to lunch, easy to make in huge batches, and high in micronutrients and minerals so no worries about missing my multi. I get anxious about eating too many low nutrient foods, which is why I'm not thinking strictly LE, more just healthy vegetarian + skipping breakfast):
340 cal (according to nutritiondata's recipe analysis), 59g carbs, 6g fat, 17g protein
1-2 pieces of fruit (pears, kiwis, oranges are my faves, but it's whatever's on sale at the grocery store) 80-200 calories, largely carbs
Water 0 cals
Total: 420-540 cals

Snack: varies hugely, but most days it's around 6 crackers (looks like 180 cals on the box), some hummus (probably at least 120 cals worth, about 1/4 cup I think?). Sometimes a glass of orange juice or garden patch juice (I know, more HE than LE but I loooove Trader Joe's Garden Patch. I should probably just boy sway, I love so many HE foods!) Sometimes some extra fruit. And then some days I'm too busy to snack. So 0-400 cals

Dinner -
This varies way more day-to-day. Now that I'm cooking only vegetarian recipes I'm pretty sure calorie counts for the foods I cook are lower on average by about 100-200, but I still had at least one night last month that DH and I split a medium deep-dish pizza (that's gotta be like 1500 cal each, right?). The increased veggie foods have meant more fiber, too, though I use white pasta when I make a pasta dish (as opposed to whole wheat). Any recipe I get information on I usually make us both double portions: due to his working late we frequently eat late and are crazy-hungry by the time we eat. Cooking for DH drives me nuts because I can eat "anything" and he's overweight, so I've been cooking many healthy foods and lower-calorie foods for years (well, aside from the white pasta). I'll drink a beer or two as well, 1-3 nights per week (I love beer, but get terrible sleep after drinking so tend to skip it if I have work in the morning and just do water). I have "something" for dessert almost every night, usually 3-5 pieces of a chocolate bar (150-250 calories), or ice cream (1/4 pint serving - looks like 270 cals on the Ben & Jerriy's container) a couple times a week. So. The main dish varies, but the ones I've tracked show 600-900 calories for the portion sizes I serve, and then up to 270 calories for dessert. So a total of 675 to 1400 (to even 1700) calories for one meal? I mean, that just doesn't seem right! My body is weird.

Total: 1170 to 2640 (I don't think I actually hit that number, but that would be my max, by this estimate) calories a day.

And the mornings are just 14oz black coffee, no sugar. So probably max 10 calories. I've been waiting until 11AM-1PM to eat lunch and we eat dinner around 9PM, so I guess 14-16 hrs of fasting each day?

Oy. I'm hoping I stay stable at this weight, but will definitely keep weighing weekly to make sure I don't lose too much when I start exercise, and watching my BBT to ensure I'm ovulating. It sounds like everyone is in agreement that exercise is better than no, so yeah, definitely going to do what it takes to add that in. I lead a fairly active life (prefer to walk or bike to driving), so I know I burn more calories than probably most Americans, though maybe not most Europeans. And not enough calories burned to explain my weird metabolism. Unless alternating 1200 calorie days with 2500 calorie days sways? And if longer fasting periods sway, should I consider eating a bigger lunch instead of or in addition to my (sometimes) snack?

[Beau82]

I would add in a meal in between lunch and dinner for sure. Is around 3 or 4 o even 5 too busy to sit down for something? Maybe a salad with dressing or cheese and crackers?

[atomic sagebrush]

I just don't know the answer about which is better, diet without cardio or eating more and doing cardio. It's just not in my ability to tell anyone that.

I do know that cardio has gotten great results, but then again time on diet has also gotten good results too so it's a bit of a toss up. (keeping in mind that most of the people doing cardio were also doing diet!!) My gut instinct is for you guys to up cals and add exercise while trying to stick in the limits for protein and fat (esp since you are doing moderate exercise already with your walk to work), but I do not have a huge body of data to back that up, it's just my gut.

I don't want anyone dropping below BMI 18.5 anyway. I prefer (VASTLY) that upon hitting BMI 21, people stop losing and try to hold steady there. Most people will find a small amount of weight creeps off after that and stopping at 21 means you ahve a nice little margin for error. So up cals till weight loss stops.

[atomic sagebrush]

If losing too much weight is a concern for you, I agree that you should definitely track for a while to make sure you're getting enough. And yes, you will need to up cals more to stop weight loss if you decide to exercise, but I don't think this will hurt your sway. Think about it, it can't be the case that you magically get a girl at 1600 cals and a boy at 1800 cals. Swaying is about telling your body times are either lean or plentiful, and what determines that is whether you're getting just enough or way extra (both in quantity/total cals and quality/macros) for your body type and activity level. Some people only need 1500 to maintain weight, some need 1800, some need 2000. If the number of calories swayed regardless of anything else, we would expect that boy moms should all be big and girl moms should all be skinny, which isn't the case. Don't be scared to eat the number of calories that you need to stop losing weight! :)

:agree: that is the primo grade A number one with a bullet reason why I encourage tracking. Everyone assumes it's for the sake of swaying, but it is to be sure you're getting enough. Over time people have an unconscious tendency to cut back more and more and get ever more restrictive.

Excellent explanation on the cal intake, Erin. I HAD TO make a specific set of guidelines for LE Diet because before that too many people were eating 800 cals a day and saying they were doing LE. But they aren't set in stone (well the minimums are, don't drop below them) but the maximums are going to be wildly different for a woman who is 6 ft tall vs 5 ft, and there are of course many other variables as well.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok I do want to be sure of something - you know that low carb veg are free and unlimited, you can have as much as you want and do not have to count them for anything at all. And high carb veg and fruit are free for protein and fat, but you do count the cals for those. A lot of people don't know or forget about this and so you end up needing to eat more to compensate for it.

Also, you do not need to eat only low-nutrient foods on LE Diet, that's a misconception. The foods you're eating are all great. What you really need to avoid is only things that are fortified. Then, just stick in limits for the day (you'll do more cals of course) it's the limits that lower nutrient intake for the most part. Then, beyond that, if you have the choice between a lower and higher nutrient food, pick the lower, but the idea that you should be eating only rice cakes and cucumbers on LE Diet simply isn't true. Lentil soup and juice occasionally are ok.

One thing that jumps out at me right away as an easy way to increase cal intake is by upping fat. Are you tracking your fat intake at all?? It may be quite low and this is an easy thing to improve upon because it's so simple to sneak in a little more fat with a meal. Vegetable based fats are better than animal.

I think it's TOTALLY normal for your meals to vary that much in cal intake. Calories are very easy to get and I can easily pack away 1000 cals a meal and not even feel full haha.

[atomic sagebrush]

I would add in a meal in between lunch and dinner for sure. Is around 3 or 4 o even 5 too busy to sit down for something? Maybe a salad with dressing or cheese and crackers?

:agree: one solution is to add a meal. Even a 4th meal. 2 or 3 meals are both 100% fine and acceptible on LE Diet (you just push back your first meal to 10-12 and then still have 3 meals in the remaining time.) and those who cannot stabilize on weight even with 3 full meals (or can't fit enough in their tummies that way because they eat lightly) are welcome to go to 4 meals (so resuming breakfast). It's still a very different pattern of eating than what we boy moms usually do, which is eat like Hobbits, "first breakfast, second breakfast, elevensies, lunch, tea, dinner, supper, bedtime and midnight snack". :)

[A Mad Swayentist]

Thank you Atomic- so many replies! I do realize I don't have to eat only low-nutrient foods on LE diet; in fact I was avoiding telling myself (and friends/family) that I'm eating the LE diet by just saying, "I'm vegetarian now" and then doubling my (nutrient rich, calorie poor) veggies on my plate. I thought just doing that and skipping breakfast would be OK without counting cals - I didn't think it would lead to such a quick drop in lbs! RE: fat, I've never been a big milk drinker in adulthood, but switching to nonfat dairy (my dairy staple is yogurt in cooking, plus a little cream cheese - I've been subbing Neufchatel) and cooking more vegan or cheeseless foods has probably weakened my sat. fat intake, which is otherwise just cocoa butter from dark chocolate, 1-3 eggs a week and maybe a bit of coconut milk (like probably one entire cans worth this past month). I probably also ate the equivalent of half a stick of butter in cooking this past month; I've mostly been using sunflower oil or broth to sautee veggies or make salad dressing. I loooove fat, though; my favorite chocolate bar is the Trader Joe's truffle bar because it's super rich in cocoa butter as well as dark chocolate (it tastes the way I wish milk chocolate tasted). Prior to this past month I also cooked with butter or cream at least once a week (and I did treat myself to some heavy cream this past weekend to make alfredo sauce). I guess I better make sure I get my ice cream in on days where I was only planning a salad for dinner?

I'm currently having my afternoon snack (70 cals crackers and 160 cals hummus). I will definitely keep trying to keep track of calories fat and protein but I find it overwhelming, particularly since there's so much I cook from scratch. That's part of why I eat the same thing for lunch (lentil soup) 5 or 6 days a week - one less thing to think about!

Also, like I said it drives me crazy that my DH can't lose weight eating the foods (and portions) I cook and serve, and meanwhile I'm struggling to hold on to lbs. We've tried switching him to smaller plates or portions than me but then he feels hungry. I'm sure it's just because I am more active overall; there's only so much about our bodies - and our DPs - we can control...

[A Mad Swayentist]

RE: Hobbit-eating - are the breads and goodies everyone leaves around at work the sort of thing I should be avoiding? I've been pretty strict about that (and before I never was - I would totally take whatever folks had left to share in the office maybe 3 times a day).

[Beau82]

Ha, I have your DP's problem and my DH has your problem! I swear I've been having nothing but salad or raw veggies for lunch the last few weeks and I doubt I've lost any more than a pound or 2. Meanwhile my husband can have 2 or 3 days where he hasn't eaten much plus maybe a bit more activity and he looks like he's lost 4 or 5 pounds.

I've stopped tracking for that reason too. For instance, I make a pretty light version of Shepherds Pie but MFP would show it as hundreds of calories when I know it's not.

[Beau82]

RE: Hobbit-eating - are the breads and goodies everyone leaves around at work the sort of thing I should be avoiding? I've been pretty strict about that (and before I never was - I would totally take whatever folks had left to share in the office maybe 3 times a day).

Yes, probably. You want to avoid having little things every couple of hours. That's exactly how I ate when I conceived my boys. A brownie here, piece of toast there, an hour later some nuts, etc etc etc.

[A Mad Swayentist]

Thank you for your replies Beau82! I know a few couples who have the opposite problem of DH and I, where the DW can't look at food without gaining and has to put in tons of effort to lose, and the DH only has to skip a meal to have people worried about his weight loss. I've always been naturally "skinny" and kinda hated it, only because it was pure luck and I feel for people who have to struggle to lose or maintain ideal weight. Oh, and because it took a ton of bike riding and squats to even get a butt (seriously, my butt was so bony in high school that it was painful to sit). I'm hoping that I can increase DH's exercise and work on tweaking his diet further after I get a BFP...but that may be wishful thinking, if I end up having an exhausting pregnancy. I only want to help him lose weight because he says that's his ideal and because I want him to live a really long and healthy life (preferably while staying married to me). He's still the cutest, sweetest guy I ever married :) and still has the sexiest voice I know (weight gain or loss won't change that, thank goodness).

[atomic sagebrush]

I think I meant to answer this and then didn't.

Yes, the idea you have to only eat low nutrient foods on LE is a misconception. This is one of those "time machine" things that I'd probably rename if I'd known then what I know now. Avoid fortified foods and vitamins, and then beyond that, if you have a choice between two options and one isnutrient dense and the other is not then if all things are equal, pick the one that is less nutritious. But that doesn't mean you can never have higher nutrient options; after all, you'd have to eat a mountain of spinach before getting anything like the nutrients in a Big Mac!

I think adding in a bit of fat is a nice easy way to ensure you continue ovulating and to also get more "bang" for your calorie buck there in terms of adding cals in a way that doesn't leave you utterly stuffed.

Too many people cut back on fat too far. I actually upped the minimum fat from 25 g to 30 because too many people were stopping O on 25 g fat. Minimum 30 g and you guys have up to 60 to use if you need to.

[atomic sagebrush]

RE: Hobbit-eating - are the breads and goodies everyone leaves around at work the sort of thing I should be avoiding? I've been pretty strict about that (and before I never was - I would totally take whatever folks had left to share in the office maybe 3 times a day).

Hobbit eating refers to eating all day every day - breakfast, first breakfast, second breakfast, elevensies, lunch, tea, etc and not what you're eating per se. So I'd avoid the nibbling but a lot of people can still have goodies as a part of LE Diet (esp if you're losing too fast.)

Geez I'm really sorry I never swung back to reply, always give me a bump if it goes beyond a week cause I open posts sometimes and then have to shut down and then it looks like I already replied.

[atomic sagebrush]

AMS, the interesting thing is that it can also switch as we get older - my hubs used to be rail thin and could eat whatever he wanted and never gains, now he can't lose weight and I just hang out at my average as long as I don't live on beer and birthday cake. :)