Acupuncture Session

[fefecooks]

Maybe this info can help someone else as well. Just left an acupuncture session. Really relaxed now. Discovered that I am unbalanced specifically in the liver and that (my type - wood/liver stagnant) can return to normal with daily bowel movements. She said that once women like me return to normal bowel function, they become pregnant pretty easily. She doesn't think it's an egg quality issue. She gave me a cleanse to start before moving on to laxative probiotics if necessary. Maybe will insert chinese herbs to regulate cycle and maybe vitex. Recommends weekly visits and daily exercise for my type.
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[atomic sagebrush]

ok. atomic tough love warning.

Take a step back and ask yourself if this really makes any sense. Lack of pooping is preventing pregnancy. The millions of women having trouble getting pregnant is because they aren't pooping enough. No.

All "cleanses" are is laxatives that make you feel like something is happening but really you're just having a lot of BM's. That label that says "no harsh stimulant laxatives" means that they don't have chemical laxatives in them but they do have herbs that are known for their laxative qualities (and fiber as you can see right on the label)

This is what I hate about acupuncture is that then they give you the hard sell on all their other stuff. The acupuncture may help. The herbs and other stuff doesn't. I can promise you (and I swear this to you on my children's lives) that the people who come to me taking "chinese herbs" to a one, literally every single person I have had in this group, have their cycles terribly messed up and are not getting pregannt until I beg and plead and cajole them to stop the herbs. Then, virtually all of them have gotten successfully pregnant within a few cycles of dropping the herbs.

The herbs mess up your cycles terribly and while there is a group of women who do seem to be helped by them, it's because they have PCOS or tendencies that way. Their hormone levels are too high and need to be lowered and so taking a bunch of herbs that mess with hormones can appear to help them (even though they'd be far, far better off simply changing their diets and exercising) If a person who is not getting pregnant for other reasons (like egg quality or too LOW hormones) start taking those same herbs, their cycles will go absolutely berserk and I see this happen time after time after time. People don't get pregnant and start taking a bunch of herbs. Then, not only do they not get pregnant but all of a sudden their cycles are getting longer and longer, their LP gets shorter and shorter, and the herbalists start throwing more herbs at them, in this vicious cycle that wastes literal years out of their fertile window which in many cases was beginning to dwindle anyway.

The solution is to stop taking the herbs and give your body time to recover but people don't ever hear that from anyone and so continue taking this or that or trying some other thing and it's this series of screwing yourself up more and more. The best thing to do is never start the herbs, follow a good lower carb diet like the AFD, moderate exercise to improve insulin response, and keep plugging away waiting for Goldie the Golden Egg to show up.

And that doesn't even go into the potential for increased rates of miscarraige and harm to your own health in the long term by taking some of these things that either have been proven actually harmful or are simply not studied.

"Chinese Herbs" were actually a product put together by Mao Tse Tung to have something to sell to Westerners. The idea that this is a time honored tradition is simply untrue and people put way too much stock into the idea. Here's a great analysis that unfortunately takes forever to get to the point https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/retconning-traditional-chinese-medicine/

[fefecooks]

So you are opposed to probiotics as well? I only have a bowel movement twice per week and most say that that's pretty toxic. I suffer from acne, horrible constant fatigue and low mood. Do you think these symptoms have nothing to do with my liver and could be atributed to something else? If so, what do you think it could be? I have been on the AFD for some time now and I'm still sluggish and tired after 8 hours of sleep. I just want to feel good again...like my normal self.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Unless you have been to a medical doctor and had tests done on the functioning of your liver (this stuff can be tested with bloodwork!) then no, I do not believe that your symptoms have anything to do with your liver.

Acne is hormonal in nature.

It's normal to poop anywhere from 2-3 times a day to 2-3 times a week. There is nothing wrong with that and your intestine is made to have poop in there. For reals. The people who say that is toxic work for the I.M.Sellingsomething Company.

If you want to try probiotics, ok. That's fine. I take them myself. They may sway blue, and they are not a miracle remedy for pregnancy (I have all my blue swayers take them and despite this some of them still take 6-9 months to fall pregnant) but you're more than welcome to take them. That is not the stuff I am talking about. I'm talking about cleanses (which are just laxatives no matter what they claim), and herbs like vitex, licorice root, "crushed pearls" (not even sure that qualifies as an herb) white peony, dong quai, the list goes on and on. All the stuff they throw at ya that are placebos at best and at worst are going to make matters far worse in terms of fertility and possibly health (as we all know unfortunately the quality control in Chinese made medications is not stellar so you have no way of knowing if there are real contaminants in the products, additionally Health watchdog warns of 'dangerously high' levels of lead, mercury and arsenic in unlicensed Chinese medicines | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2398192/Health-watchdog-warns-dangerously-high-levels-lead-mercury-arsenic-unlicensed-Chinese-medicines.html))

Fatigue is one of those all encompassing sympoms that herbalists like to attribute to whatever thing they claim you have but it's so vague that most of us have it.

My advice is to go to a doctor and have a complete health workup if you think you have a medical condition. Have them check your liver and your iron levels and tell them about the fatigue. Do not start taking a bunch of laxatives and untested herbs until you have had this done because if you do have some underlying medical condition the absolute very last thing you need is to further tax your body by having to process a bunch of herbs and possible ACTUAL toxins that have been found in Chinese herbs.

[fefecooks]

So it's normal to just be tired ALL the time? I used to have gorgeous skin. Now no more compliments on it. Why would it just change like that? This is different for me. I will get my liver, iron and thyroid checked first but I think I'm ready to take my chances. The cleanse is only 10 days and I think my temperatures are doing a great job at predicting hormonal balance (since giving up sugar and drinking water). They are still steady and not rocky any more. If I notice more rocky stuff that would be a good indicator that it's not working for me, right? I just don't think that I would be a great mom with these low mood feelings that I'm having. I just want to get healthy. Can we agree that feeling your optimal best is high priority?


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[atomic sagebrush]

I'm not saying it's normal to be tired all the time, I'm saying that walking into an acupuncturist who tells you that on the basis of being tired that you have something wrong with your liver and tells you to "do a cleanse" is not acting in your best interests. I am also saying that many people are walking around fatigued from any number of causes that are not going to be solved by taking laxatives for 10 days (and if you are experiencing some kind of nutrient imbalance you may actually do yourself harm and end up feeling worse)

I agree totally that feeling your best is a high priority. Can we also agree that going in and receiving bad advice is not going to help you feel any better and very well may end up feeling worse and reducing your ability to get pregnant??

You seem to be operating under the assumption that this person knows what they are talking about and I do not (which is fine), and somehow doing what they say is going to fix your issues and I am trying to stand in the way of that happening (which isn't). I am telling you, that this is not a harmless endeavor you are about to undertake here and you are very very possibly about to do something that is going to make you feel even worse and may even cause you lasting harm, plus make your cycle go wacko and lower your odds of conception.

If you think there is something wrong with you, go to a doctor and get checked. That is the way to get healthy.

This has NOTHING to do with swaying. If you think this is a swaying thing, it isn't. It is the dozens of people who have come to me taking these herbs and having rendered themselves unable to get pregnant because of them. I am trying to act in your best interests here for your health and your ability to conceive.

[atomic sagebrush]

Re your temperatures, I think you're reading too much into them (people get pregnant with cray-cray temps and not with very nice even keeled ones) and I would still 110% advise against taking herbal laxatives for 10 days regardless of the effects on your temperature.

[fefecooks]

Oh no I'm saying that at all. I would never try to insult your experience and expertise in this arena. I value your opinion as well. She has been experienced in acupuncture specific to infertility for quite some time with great success rates when combined with integrative medicine. She made an assessment based on a series of questions regarding my reproductive health and history. She checked my tongue and my pulse as well. She then did acupuncture points that related to my symptoms and I began to relax which is so hard for me. I just can't argue with her experience and ability to help so many others with infertility even with these herbs. Is it possible that not every woman that takes herbs or does a cleanse ends up so wacky as you say?

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[atomic sagebrush]

I never said they all did, I said that of the women who have come to me and who have been on the herbs, they have been having wacky cycles. Both the Chinese ones and the naturopaths who love to hand out the massive doses of vitex to everyone for years at a time and then wonder why they stop ovulating (somehow the answer to this is more vitex :think:). I would say this is about 100 people by now, just to give a rough estimate. Not 2 or 3 people, dozens. No one is having fertility issues because they are having a vitex deficiency or a crushed pearl deficiency.

Some women who have PCOS issues can take herbs that basically interfere with their fertility and their hormone levels and because they kind of have "too many" hormones going on (since PCOS can be a state of too high testosterone and blood sugar) but if you DON"T have that problem going on, and you start taking herbs that interfere with your fertility even further, reducing your body's ability to make estrogen and such, you're not going to get good results with that.

A doctor will take blood tests to check and see how your liver is actually functioning. The enzymes it's making, the proteins in your blood, and all sorts of stuff. They can even go in and take an ultrasound of your liver and see if there are tumors on it. Checking your pulse and tongue cannot compare to this level of knowledge that can be gleaned from a blood test or ultrasound. I will tell you I have had several women who've been told by these practitioners that they were pregnant/not pregnant, or having a boy or a girl, ovulating or not ovulating, on the basis checking the pulse, only to find out subsequently that they were wrong. Again, numbering in the dozens of people range (not as many as whose cycles were messed up with the herbs, but still quite a few.)

I am not going to argue about this any more, if you believe in it then nothing I can say or do will talk you out of it.

[fefecooks]

Getting all blood work right now. Thyroid, Liver, Iron, Insulin. Results in a week.

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[fefecooks]

Ugghhhh! Everything came back normal except glucose, which was 100. This is the most frustrating thing ever!!! Getting a food sensitivity test done next Friday.

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[Pbn3]

Have been following fefe, just want to say I'm glad your test results came back normal as frustrating as it is. I do hope you get some answers (or a bfp) soon though.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Ugghhhh! Everything came back normal except glucose, which was 100. This is the most frustrating thing ever!!! Getting a food sensitivity test done next Friday.

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That's actually good news, they may be able to give you some Metformin which will help you to make healthier eggs and hopefully get pregnant fast!! (plus also good for pink).

[atomic sagebrush]

^^ much better than them not finding anything, or finding something hard to treat!!