Do PP families "get" to have GD??

[babypinkno3]

Even if I ever end up getting my DG, will I ever be able to stop the urge to roll my eyes at people who have one of each right off the bat? I see people with one of each and I think, man, they'll never know the feeling of GD. Or if they did, it was very short lived. I'm just wondering what it must feel like to be able to experience having different genders so soon. I myself feel like I am unable to make a girl so when I see someone have one of each I feel like they assume all pregnancies are 50/50. Right now I feel like my odds are 95/5. I don't know. I guess people with one of each can still have GD if they were hoping for all same-sex siblings. Ugh. Stupid feelings.


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[purple]

I have a friend who has a PP and she experienced gender disappointment when she found out the gender of her 2nd. She grew up as part of a PP and didn't have a great relationship with her brother so she didn't want that for her kids.

She actually expressed her disappointment on Facebook and got given a hard time for it. At first I was thinking she had no right to be disappointed like me but who am I to say how someone else feels.

I still think it is harder for those who desire to have at least one child of the other gender and never do but we can't completely own the GD feeling.

[familymatters]

I had some pretty significant GD when I found out DS2 was a boy. And because I have one of each I felt even worse because no one understood why I would possibly feel any disappointment. Every time I looked at my beautiful DS1 I would kick myself and think 'how can you not be happy to be having another beautiful little boy?' but I had really really wanted another girl for a variety of reasons. 1) when I had DD I was young and it was a surprise pregnancy. The whole pregnancy was a blur and I was very anxious. I also suffered with PND for the first 6 months of her life so I felt like I never got the chance to be excited or celebrate having a little girl. 2) I always wanted a sister desperately (my brother and I are like chalk and cheese) and naturally I really want my DD to get the opportunity to have a sister, 3) I had always seen myself with two girls and a boy. Silly I know but it was my *dream* family and 4) my very best friend in the world was pregnant two weeks ahead of me with a girl and I really wanted to have a girl too so they could grow up together and hopefully be best friends as well!
So you see I had all these hopes and dreams all intermingled in with the gender of my third baby, so when she was in fact a he all this came crashing down. It was so hard to reconcile because I already had a girl, and I also had a gorgeous little boy who I was obsessed with, so I felt like I had absolutely no right to experience GD. Sometimes on this forum I still feel like that because I see women so desperate for just one girl and I am in the nice position to already have one.

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[GirlieCat]

I don't have any children. I am one of the few on this site swaying for baby#1 and even childless I fully understand GD. We are getting older (me 35, DH 38) and the decision to start our family now has brought a lot of fear for me because I am so afraid that once we get pregnant if I found out the baby is a boy, that I will regret the decision to have kids.

I know logically that I will love a boy and still be a good mom but I can already tell you based on how I feel now that GD can be felt by first time moms, 2x moms, moms with one of each, or whatever the situation. You may want one of each so you see a PP family and think they are so lucky, but that mom may have wanted two DS or two DD and you will never know. Woman are not as honest about their GD because like purple said about her friend, people are harsh to woman who express GD. That is why forums like this are important so we can have support from complete strangers who actually understand. (This site has been a huge blessing to me during this journey).


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[GirlieCat]

GD- I meant gender dreaming....I realize now you might have meant gender disappointment.


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[trifecta]

It's a unique kind of turmoil to have to consider going over the number of children you thought you could parent well and happily while knowing there is still a significant likelihood of having another of the same sex.

[atomic sagebrush]

I must admit this is one thing that still needles me sometimes. I did not ever even CARE about pigeon pairs, I never wanted one and never have seen them as "ideal"; I always wanted a bigger family of 5 or 6 and just figured that I'd get at least ONE girl in there somewhere. But once ya get to 4 boys over 20 years it does seem kind of unfair how many people are walking around out there and just poop out a boy and a girl and then they're like "we're totally DONE!" as if they've achieved the cure for cancer or something. so long story short, even after finally getting my girl on try #5, that does get to me because literally EVERY family in my real world circles who has had a child since then, has had a boy and a girl without even trying for it.

[atomic sagebrush]

GirlieCat - yes absolutely gender desire OR disappointment can absolutely be felt by people TTC #1 and I actually think that for many of those gals, it cuts the deepest. They never really get to have that joyous pregnancy experience without gender desire/disappointment messing with it, as those who have no real preference do with their first, at least.

[babypinkno3]

I thought about this after I posted and I agree that no matter how many children or genders you have, you can still have GD. I love that this site helps open my mind to different perspectives, and I'm definitely seeing GD through only my perspective. I guess I'd be ignorant to not understand why a person with one of each would have GD, and it's not fair. There certainly are families that desire all of one kind, or at least two of the same. I love the way you put it Atomic, I think this is certainly what I feel as well. Regardless if I get my DG next, I will still feel like I didn't "succeed" the first three times.


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[GirlieCat]

GirlieCat - yes absolutely gender desire OR disappointment can absolutely be felt by people TTC #1 and I actually think that for many of those gals, it cuts the deepest. They never really get to have that joyous pregnancy experience without gender desire/disappointment messing with it, as those who have no real preference do with their first, at least.

Atomic- this post made me cry because you get it. I wish more than anything that I just didn't care but I can't make that desire go away. What you describe is my fear- not just enjoying the wonders of my first pregnancy and REALLY fear how I will feel if the gender isn't what I am hoping for. All the more reason I want my girl with pregnancy #1 so pregnancy #2 I don't have to sway or care. Thank you for this post.


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[Debahlgrim]

I had some pretty significant GD when I found out DS2 was a boy. And because I have one of each I felt even worse because no one understood why I would possibly feel any disappointment. Every time I looked at my beautiful DS1 I would kick myself and think 'how can you not be happy to be having another beautiful little boy?' but I had really really wanted another girl for a variety of reasons. 1) when I had DD I was young and it was a surprise pregnancy. The whole pregnancy was a blur and I was very anxious. I also suffered with PND for the first 6 months of her life so I felt like I never got the chance to be excited or celebrate having a little girl. 2) I always wanted a sister desperately (my brother and I are like chalk and cheese) and naturally I really want my DD to get the opportunity to have a sister, 3) I had always seen myself with two girls and a boy. Silly I know but it was my *dream* family and 4) my very best friend in the world was pregnant two weeks ahead of me with a girl and I really wanted to have a girl too so they could grow up together and hopefully be best friends as well!
So you see I had all these hopes and dreams all intermingled in with the gender of my third baby, so when she was in fact a he all this came crashing down. It was so hard to reconcile because I already had a girl, and I also had a gorgeous little boy who I was obsessed with, so I felt like I had absolutely no right to experience GD. Sometimes on this forum I still feel like that because I see women so desperate for just one girl and I am in the nice position to already have one.

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I have a girl and two boys. I definitely experienced GD when I found out about DS2. I just have a little brother and we were close when we were little but not since. I see how close sisters are and I wanted (and want) that for my DD. I was so sure that DS2 was a girl that when we found out I was devastated. I convinced DH to try for baby #4 and I am really hoping for a girl but even with all the swaying I'm convinced it will be a DS3. That being said, especially after being on this site, I am very thankful I have a daughter and even if I end up with three little boys in a row, I have my daughter. I cannot imagine how upset I would be if I only had boys.


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[familymatters]

I have a girl and two boys. I definitely experienced GD when I found out about DS2. I just have a little brother and we were close when we were little but not since. I see how close sisters are and I wanted (and want) that for my DD. I was so sure that DS2 was a girl that when we found out I was devastated. I convinced DH to try for baby #4 and I am really hoping for a girl but even with all the swaying I'm convinced it will be a DS3. That being said, especially after being on this site, I am very thankful I have a daughter and even if I end up with three little boys in a row, I have my daughter. I cannot imagine how upset I would be if I only had boys.


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We are kindred spirits! My brother is younger too and although we were close as kids unfortunately that didn't continue into adulthood. I never longed for a sister as a child but as an adult I'd give almost anything to have a sister! Im forever jealous of my friends with sisters. It's nice know I'm not the only one with both genders who are still desperate for another DD. I agree that we are very lucky to already have a DD though. DH doesn't get it though at all. However he's reluctantly going along with me if I insist on having another. I'm really frightened to though because I'm worried about how I'll feel if I have another DS. I don't want 4 children to be honest, but I want one more DD to complete our family. When are you having your first attempt?

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[Debahlgrim]

We are kindred spirits! My brother is younger too and although we were close as kids unfortunately that didn't continue into adulthood. I never longed for a sister as a child but as an adult I'd give almost anything to have a sister! Im forever jealous of my friends with sisters. It's nice know I'm not the only one with both genders who are still desperate for another DD. I agree that we are very lucky to already have a DD though. DH doesn't get it though at all. However he's reluctantly going along with me if I insist on having another. I'm really frightened to though because I'm worried about how I'll feel if I have another DS. I don't want 4 children to be honest, but I want one more DD to complete our family. When are you having your first attempt?

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Yes exactly! I feel guilty because I think I would have been content with three if DS2 was a DD. DS2 is so stinkin cute and he is the most cuddly boy ever! Im completely in love with him so I'm SO happy now! And looking at my sweet adorable boys makes me feel like it would be ok if I had DS3 but I feel like four kids would be totally worth it if it was a girl! My hubby is absolutely only going along with baby #4 because of me and I just want to make it extra worth it ya know?

I'm waiting to get my personalized plan but I have been dieting with weight watchers since June and I have lost 12 pounds so I'm reeeeally hoping Atomic thinks it's a good idea if I start TTC in October! I just started the 60min cardio. What about you? When are you going to TTC? What have you been doing to sway?


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[familymatters]

My DS2 is so cute I get stopped all the time to be told by strangers just how delicious he is. Both my boys are delightful, and besides my obsession with having another daughter I am very very happy and thankful for the 3 kids I have. Good on you for loosing weight! I have been on the diet (vegetarian) and exercise since June. I'm truly over it. We missed ttc this month cause hubby had a freak out but should be back on track in October.

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[Debahlgrim]

Awe sweet little boys!!

I haven't been doing the vegetarian route at all but I haven't been eating too much protein either so hopefully that's ok. I hope you get your girl!! Keep me updated!


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[Debahlgrim]

And I am SO over it too!! I want to try soon so I can stop this madness!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes I think you're good to go in Oct. Deb.

It is really interesting to me because I DID always long for a sister (I have two, but they're 11 and 13 years younger and I'm an only child really since my parents divorced and remarried) but I also longed for a brother. I would love to have ANYONE haha. I would have always thought that I would be really in mourning for my poor daughter having 4 big brothers and no sisters, but I'm strangely ok with it. I know of a lot of people who have sisters they don't get along with, and brothers that they do, and I also think that another girl would be just another division on the time that I have to spend with her. I like it being just her and me, and overall it just doesn't bother me that much. :)

[Debahlgrim]

Yes I think you're good to go in Oct. Deb.

It is really interesting to me because I DID always long for a sister (I have two, but they're 11 and 13 years younger and I'm an only child really since my parents divorced and remarried) but I also longed for a brother. I would love to have ANYONE haha. I would have always thought that I would be really in mourning for my poor daughter having 4 big brothers and no sisters, but I'm strangely ok with it. I know of a lot of people who have sisters they don't get along with, and brothers that they do, and I also think that another girl would be just another division on the time that I have to spend with her. I like it being just her and me, and overall it just doesn't bother me that much. :)

Yes! That is why although I would prefer to have a girl, if it was a DS3, I would get just Amelia and mommy time! And she loves that :)


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[trifecta]

Growing up, I HATED having sisters. My relationship with my brother was much less competitive. My husband is half of a PP and his relationship with his sister is very peaceful and affectionate. I pretty much thought, "We'll have one of each and then we won't have to deal with sibling rivalry." What a joke! We all definitely bring our own skewed, clouded vision to the experience of parenthood.

My boys DO have a lot of sibling rivalry, BTW, and it's something that really exacerbates my GD. I know brothers and sisters fight all the time but it's very, very hard to see the jealousy and competition and not feel like I've been singled out to deal with the very problem I hoped to avoid. I feel like I have too much baggage to deal with it well. They are also very close, which helps, but somebody is always out to prove his superiority.

[atomic sagebrush]

Growing up, I HATED having sisters. My relationship with my brother was much less competitive. My husband is half of a PP and his relationship with his sister is very peaceful and affectionate. I pretty much thought, "We'll have one of each and then we won't have to deal with sibling rivalry." What a joke! We all definitely bring our own skewed, clouded vision to the experience of parenthood.

My boys DO have a lot of sibling rivalry, BTW, and it's something that really exacerbates my GD. I know brothers and sisters fight all the time but it's very, very hard to see the jealousy and competition and not feel like I've been singled out to deal with the very problem I hoped to avoid. I feel like I have too much baggage to deal with it well. They are also very close, which helps, but somebody is always out to prove his superiority.

My first two boys did have sibling rivalry (and yes, I did think it was a boy thing originally) and then my second two are really close.

I think this may be one of those things that we think is a gender thing, when in reality it's an "individual kid" thing. My husband seems to get along great with his sister. I'm jealous of them!

I love these types of threads because I think (and I count myself right there!) for many of us, we have an ideallized vision of what the other gender would be like. The flaws we see in our kids, and we all have them, even our precious kids do, it's all too easy to think "well a girl would be neater" or "a boy wouldn't be such a drama queen". But those of us who do end up getting their desired gender - it's just a kid. With flaws still. I actually think that is partly why some people do crave another, is because they STILL didn't get to experience some specific element of motherhood that Child #1 did not bring to the table.

My mom was a cheerleader and really super popular. I am a shy nerd and as a kid I was also hideously ugly (true story). While she would deny it endlessly I know she felt disappointed that I wasn't like that. She could have stuck a pink bow on my head from now till the end of time and it would not have fixed that disappointment. Me being a girl did not cure the disconnect between her expecting a kid that did not arrive and instead getting some other person that she didn't relate to.

This gender stuff is deep LOL!

[trifecta]

.

This gender stuff is deep LOL!

I was (and am still) glad I have a boy for my oldest, even if I never have a daughter.

I think it would have much worse for me to have a girl first with my personal baggage because my oldest sister was always such a problematic, destructive force in our house. My mom really treated her like a princess, too. I would have been afraid that doting too much would create a dysfunctional person.

I just really didn't want that pattern because think I would have been even worse at handling sibling rivalry with an oldest girl, and probably worse still with two girls.

We all have our own individual neuroses about these things.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think the whole "pigeon pair conundrum" is a very important point to consider because it is very unfair of us to say on the one hand that infertile people or those who "just want healthy children" or have pigeon pairs and don't get any of this, are big meanies when they resent us, and yet then turn around and resent people who have GD for a second daughter or for only girls. Ya can't have it both ways; either you extend understanding to others that same understanding which you desire for yourself, or you have to understand where others are coming from when they have a hard time understanding you. Preferably both.

This idea that only people who have X number of Y gender are allowed to express any kind of emotions over having Y number of X gender is to me not something we need to be indulging IMO. It ends up not only controlling your life and those of other people but it isn't good for YOU. Not IRL and not on this site, either. Challenging the assumptions we make in the throes our gender disappointment helps them to heal. A climate where people isolate themselves from pigeon pairs and focus only on how sad they are and how this is the worst thing that ever happened to them is not conducive to getting past it. Honest discussion, even debate, exposing ourselves to things that make us feel uncomfortable, is the key to getting past these false gender related assumptions that cause many of us so much pain. The idea of "safe spaces" is not supported by science, you have to challenge your thought processes to recover from trauma. Holing up in a world away from pigeon pairs is not gonna help.

There are women with 4,5,6 boys or girls who have less severe GD than some having GD for a second girl or for only girls or boys. There are also women with 4,5,6 of one gender who think people with only 2 or 3 have it "easy" and are jerks for complaining. Number of desired gender is clearly not a prerequisite for experiencing these feelings. This is not a "your pain is inferior to my pain" scenario. There is not a litmus test for having GD feelings and they are absolutely possible and for some people, cut just as deep or even more so, than those who have 2 or 3 or 10 of one gender. Is it not possible to envision and have compassion for people who have strong GD with a first pregnancy (they never get to enjoy their pregnancy at all!) or for those who have strong GD for a second girl (imagine the pressure of wanting so badly to make this happen for your child!).

The fact is that at least some of us are going to have to move on and never get our desired gender. We can address that up front and try to get over it, or not. We could also wallow in it and feel sad and bitter constantly for the rest of our lives. The fact is that we will be faced with a lot of people in life some of whom have pigeon pairs and feel all kinds of ways about that. At some point, the anger and bitterness ends up hurting only yourself.

[atomic sagebrush]

I was (and am still) glad I have a boy for my oldest, even if I never have a daughter.

I think it would have much worse for me to have a girl first with my personal baggage because my oldest sister was always such a problematic, destructive force in our house. My mom really treated her like a princess, too. I would have been afraid that doting too much would create a dysfunctional person.

I just really didn't want that pattern because think I would have been even worse at handling sibling rivalry with an oldest girl, and probably worse still with two girls.

We all have our own individual neuroses about these things.

Me too. In retrospect though I know I would not have walked down this road (GD wise) I am so thankful I had a son first. I think I really would have messed up a girl!!!!

[nuthinbutpink]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/member-lounge-off-topic-discussion/56447-how-do-i-delete-my-posts-account.html

[atomic sagebrush]

Just apropros of nothing, here is my opinion on people deleting their accounts. They are of course your accounts and you're all welcome to delete them if you so chose, but I don't delete people's posts for them. I have better things to do and it REALLY screws me over, quite frankly, because after I've spent hour(s) replying to people's questions, this work and information that I put a lot of effort into answering is then erased and no one else can ever access or learn from it.

[atomic sagebrush]

For those who really want to delete their posts, Nuthin posted a link on how to do it above. I really would like to say, though, that you are basically taking hours of my life energy and setting it ablaze when you do that. I have gone out of my way to answer many questions for tons of people on this site, information that is the benefit of everyone and then that is entirely erased when people start getting delete happy.

Misunderstandings happen and in a day or two or three no one remembers "hot" threads nor who was involved in them. Interpersonal issues only continue when people choose to continue them.

[nuthinbutpink]

This thread is dead but YES, Anyone is entitled to feel gender desire and gender disappointment. Who are we to judge. If you live in a glass house, it is best not to throw stones.