Not sure what to do... HELP!!!

[maggie84]

So, I have been TTCing for the past 2 months with no success.

Prior to TTC start, I was not ovulating on my own (or ovulating around CD 30) so my doctor put me on Femara CD 5-9 and progesterone 2-12 dpo. I have had my progesterone checked 7dpo and I ovulated on both months, but no BFP.
July: ONE atempt 3 days prior to O + jump and dump = BFN
August: ONE attemp 1 day prior to O + pull out = BFN

So this time around I just want to get pregnant more than swaying, but I don't want to adopt tactics that sway too blue. This will be my 3rd cycle on Fermara which sways pink and that is great. Also I have regularly been skipping breakfast, and slowly losing weight. And I guess that's about it as a pink sway tactic.

I am 32 and husband is 33 and he did lose (and still is losing) A LOT of weight in the past month. Does this sway blue? He was IMC 29 and now he is more close to IMC 25, he wanted to go back to a healthy weight. He also won't abstain for 7-10 days prior to O, so I was thinking about DTD frequently using condoms (without spermicide), he won't do it daily or twice a day on his own.

So basically I want to increase my changes of getting pregnant but without going too much into blue territory. Does this make sense? What do you suggest? I think I would feel more comfortable with 2 attempts this month. How should I time them? How can I have more attemps in the fertile window and still sway girl? Can I DTD using condoms and then BD in the same day like some hours later?

HELP! I can't figure it out on my own! :)


P.S. - Just some background on me, I have a 3 year old son and he was conceived with ONE attempt 3 days prior to O! But I was not losing weight and gaining a lot of muscle in the gym. Also he was conceived naturally since I ovulated on my own at the time.

[Erin514]

First off, two months TTC is no reason to panic. Many fertile couples take longer than that, and your first attempt was pretty far from O to have good odds, so I would think you've really only had one month with a good attempt and a BFN. One month is very early!
What do you mean by pull-out? That you had a single attempt where he released inside you and then other sex that cycle was pull-out method of birth control? Or that he pulled out and did a shallow release on your single attempt? If you're trying to get him to do anything like hot baths, shallow release, abstain, frequent release, just drop all that. I would stick with a single attempt at positive OPK (NOT days before the OPK), for a few more cycles before adding attempts, but if you are determined to add attempts then I would start by spacing them at least four days apart. Good luck!

[maggie84]

First off, two months TTC is no reason to panic. Many fertile couples take longer than that, and your first attempt was pretty far from O to have good odds, so I would think you've really only had one month with a good attempt and a BFN. One month is very early!
What do you mean by pull-out? That you had a single attempt where he released inside you and then other sex that cycle was pull-out method of birth control? Or that he pulled out and did a shallow release on your single attempt? If you're trying to get him to do anything like hot baths, shallow release, abstain, frequent release, just drop all that. I would stick with a single attempt at positive OPK (NOT days before the OPK), for a few more cycles before adding attempts, but if you are determined to add attempts then I would start by spacing them at least four days apart. Good luck!

Thanks Erin! I know 2 months are not much but I will get 3 cycles with Femara before I have to pause TTC for a month (after that either I keep doing Femara or my doctor might change medication) and so I really think that too much sway could hurt my chances of getting pregnant soon enough. About the second cycle: yes I meant one attemp with a shallow release. The first one was off because I thought Femara would make me ovulate on CD 14 and we BD in the weekend before I had a positive OPK - and then we had no more chances for more attempts - but it turned out I Oed on CD17.

I really think you are right and one attempt at positive OPK sounds great. If we want to DTD more than that would it be ok just to use condoms? How would it affect DH sperm count to DTD often up to the positive OPK? I am asking because he is just tired of abstaining and I know that in this cycle he will want to DTD whenever he feels like it, but also I don't want to go into blue territory by BD everyday up until O.

What about DH losing weight? Does it sway blue?

[Georgia_Peach]

I think heavier dad's slightly sway pink so maybe yes. I have been told to have my hubby stay at current weight (not lose any) for my current sway.
Hope this helps. Good luck! 😊

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[atomic sagebrush]

Well, 2 months is nothing to panic over but you are certainly doing things that do not sway at all and are really cutting your odds of conception (for no reason since they don't work!!) Additionally, I am at a loss as to how you can be sure you really BD 3 days before O since Femara can change your cycles a lot. it may have been much longer than that beforehand.

Timing DOES NOT SWAY. It has been debunked in numerous studies, the last of which was done in May of this year using modern knowledge and technology (all the studies that supposedly supported timing were done 40-50 years ago without modern knowledge or technology). You cannot go on any longer with a cutoff. It has to go. Drop jump and dump too. I would have you do one attempt at positive OPK (not a day before that or 3 days before, the night you get the positive OPK) this upcoming month (month 3). If you don't get pregnant that month, I would have unprotected sex every 4 days (month 4) and then Month 5, do BOTH every 4 days plus one more attempt at positive OPK. If you still have not conceived and you're on your 6th and final month of TTC on Femara, go to SMEP (sperm meets egg plan)

you do not need and should NOT have your husband do either abstain or DTD a lot with a condom or on his own (frequent release). It cuts odds of conception to nothing and has not been effective. just have him do regular release, on his own or with you, with a condom, every 2-4 days to "clean the pipes". This will ensure he makes a decent number of sperm to find the egg with that one attempt this upcoming month.

I personally think you should give it a month trying with one attempt at a time in your cycle that you actually have a decent chance of conceiving. You can't have attempts 3 days before O (or longer even since it's impossible to predict 3 days before ovulation when you're on Femara) and then decide you can't get pregnant from one attempt, you CAN, you were just putting that so far before O that all the sperm died long before the egg showed up. But if you prefer, then just skip ahead to the every 4 day method and BD unprotected every 4th day starting after AF ends and going through till when you are 110% sure you've ovulated, even if this means going straight on to AF.

[atomic sagebrush]

A guy who loses a LOT of weight will sway pink. I tend to advise husbands with a little "junk in the trunk" to stay where they are as being overweight may sway pink, but losing a lot may ALSO sway pink for him. It's the guys who drop 5 lbs that may inadvertently sway blue.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks Erin! I know 2 months are not much but I will get 3 cycles with Femara before I have to pause TTC for a month (after that either I keep doing Femara or my doctor might change medication) and so I really think that too much sway could hurt my chances of getting pregnant soon enough. About the second cycle: yes I meant one attemp with a shallow release. The first one was off because I thought Femara would make me ovulate on CD 14 and we BD in the weekend before I had a positive OPK - and then we had no more chances for more attempts - but it turned out I Oed on CD17.

I really think you are right and one attempt at positive OPK sounds great. If we want to DTD more than that would it be ok just to use condoms? How would it affect DH sperm count to DTD often up to the positive OPK? I am asking because he is just tired of abstaining and I know that in this cycle he will want to DTD whenever he feels like it, but also I don't want to go into blue territory by BD everyday up until O.

What about DH losing weight? Does it sway blue?

Do not ever do shallow release. It has never been proven to help at all and REALLY cuts odds of conception. I can't tell you how many people I have seen who went on and on not getting pregnant and I was trying every trick in my book to help them, only to find out they were doing shallow release all along. drop that right away.

Ok so now reading this post, since you do only have this one more month on the femara I would have you go straight to the every 4 days plus one more attempt at positive OPK. And if your doctor wants to pull you off Femara after 3 months and try something different, I strongly urge you to confess to him/her that you did try timing the first couple months and had literally no chance of pregnancy and tell them that you are doing things differently from here on in. If s/he knows those first two months were poorly timed, they will ~probably~ let you continue with the Femara another few months (may make you take a month off, but that is ok, since even the month after coming off Femara seems to sway pink even if you don't take it that month) instead of urging you to go to stronger medications that you probably do not need to be on.

DH release on his own or with you with a condom OR the unprotected BD, every 2-4 days. no more than that. It's the ideal frequency for making healthy sperm.

[squigglepink]

My DH is almost 39 so abstain not an option.. He didnt want to release on his own either and i had mixed feelings about FR and how it effects sperm and the whole thing just made me worry too much and possibly swaying blue so i just forgot about all that and we DTD when we felt like it (protected). Im in the 2ww currently but at our attempt my opk's were getting lighter every day rather than stronger towards a positive opk as usual - so we took a chance and BD on CD13 and then of course the next day got a positive so im not very hopeful but i was trying to BD on a positive opk and will do so next cycle if BFN this time! x

This thread might be helpful because i asked the same questions xx
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/5007-lowering-sperm-count-without-daily-bding-abstaining-11.html#post841992

[maggie84]

Do not ever do shallow release. It has never been proven to help at all and REALLY cuts odds of conception. I can't tell you how many people I have seen who went on and on not getting pregnant and I was trying every trick in my book to help them, only to find out they were doing shallow release all along. drop that right away.

Ok so now reading this post, since you do only have this one more month on the femara I would have you go straight to the every 4 days plus one more attempt at positive OPK. And if your doctor wants to pull you off Femara after 3 months and try something different, I strongly urge you to confess to him/her that you did try timing the first couple months and had literally no chance of pregnancy and tell them that you are doing things differently from here on in. If s/he knows those first two months were poorly timed, they will ~probably~ let you continue with the Femara another few months (may make you take a month off, but that is ok, since even the month after coming off Femara seems to sway pink even if you don't take it that month) instead of urging you to go to stronger medications that you probably do not need to be on.

DH release on his own or with you with a condom OR the unprotected BD, every 2-4 days. no more than that. It's the ideal frequency for making healthy sperm.

Thank you so much atomic, you have indeed been very helpful! In my first cycle I was not aiming at a cutoff 3 days before O, my doctor told me I should O around CD 14-15 and it was a weekend so I did BD on CD14 without a positive opk. I did not worry about it because I was not used to opks and thought I maybe had missed the surge. Then hubby went to work away for some days and it turned out i got a positive opk on CD16 and therefore I believe O to be on CD17.

So this month I will jump right into DTD every 4 days with one of them being at positive OPK. I believe my doctor will keep me on femara since I am ovulating, but she wanted to check on me after 3 months TTC if I am not pregnant and to pause for 1 month (in which I might or might not ovulate on my own).

My husband already lost 10-12lbs and continues to drop, so that is great that it sways pink :) Good news! :)

[maggie84]

Ok so now reading this post, since you do only have this one more month on the femara I would have you go straight to the every 4 days plus one more attempt at positive OPK.

Atomic, just to clarify, what happens if I DTD every 4 days and then get a +opk like the day after DTD? Shall I have then 2 attempts in a row during the fertile window? Doesn't that sway very blue?

I believe that after 2 cycles on Femara I can guess what day I will be ovulating with some confidence. I will try to time the every 4 day attempts so that one of them falls into the +opk day, but if O delays a day or two I might have 2 attempts during the fertile window... Is that OK?

[atomic sagebrush]

Gotcha! :) Doc was wrong on that as you obviously know - you O an average of 5-10 days after your last Femara dose and NOT on CD 14. Some people O even later than 10 days after their last dose.

There are two different methods we use involving BD every 4 days. One is just BD unprotected every 4 days, and then the other method is doing BOTH every 4 days plus then adding in one additional attempt at positive OPK (this is better odds of conception but possibly lower odds of pink - but remember, you have the Femara working for you too!!) In that case, yes, you would BD every 4 days and then add in that attempt at pos OPK no matter what. Even if it's the very next day. Do NOT try to "time the attempts" to fall on a certain day. That has never worked and just causes people tons of stress, plus doesn't up odds of conception anyway (since you end up really just having one attempt that way most of the time). Just BD every 4 days and then add in the attempt at pos OPK.

If you think that doc will re-up your Femara (and I do urge that you mention how the timing was off that month due to hubby's work schedule) then in that case, if you really feel like you want to give it a month with just e4d, then in that case skip the pos OPK attempt, and just BD every 4th day. Don't try to make it come out a certain way. That is lower odds of conception but may be better chances of pink.

[atomic sagebrush]

My DH is almost 39 so abstain not an option.. He didnt want to release on his own either and i had mixed feelings about FR and how it effects sperm and the whole thing just made me worry too much and possibly swaying blue so i just forgot about all that and we DTD when we felt like it (protected). Im in the 2ww currently but at our attempt my opk's were getting lighter every day rather than stronger towards a positive opk as usual - so we took a chance and BD on CD13 and then of course the next day got a positive so im not very hopeful but i was trying to BD on a positive opk and will do so next cycle if BFN this time! x

This thread might be helpful because i asked the same questions xx
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/5007-lowering-sperm-count-without-daily-bding-abstaining-11.html#post841992

:agree: this is a possibility too. We like to call this "do what he does" method and you just let DH do what he wants either on his own or with you, with a condom, and then BD unprotected only one time. It's also a viable option for people whose hubbies are just not interested in doing anything or even hearing about anything to do with swaying. :)

[maggie84]

If you think that doc will re-up your Femara (and I do urge that you mention how the timing was off that month due to hubby's work schedule) then in that case, if you really feel like you want to give it a month with just e4d, then in that case skip the pos OPK attempt, and just BD every 4th day. Don't try to make it come out a certain way. That is lower odds of conception but may be better chances of pink.

Yeah I will go either way... If DTD every 4 days make BD day fall on the positive opk (I will not time it) then I will have 1 attempt, if not I will have another attempt at positive OPK just to up the odds of conception. As I've read here in the forum 2 attemps still might sway a little pink and I also have Femara for my sway :)

About the diet, I found that I do not lose weight or even gain weight on the LE diet because it will just have too many carbs for me. What is more important for swaying pink: eating in a specific way or losing weight? Because I am losing weight by skipping breakfast and eating a lower carb diet (meaning a little more protein and fat than what is reccommended in the LE Diet). I have 2 meals a day, lunch and dinner. So, if I am losing about 1/2lbs a week shall I keep up with what I am doing?

About exercising I am doing "couch potato exercise", since I know there is no way I could keep up with 1hr cardio 6-7 times a week! I am the laziest pink swayer you can get :)

Also I am taking coffee once every morning (I never drank coffee before) and then 1 glass of wine every night to help me fall asleep (otherwise the coffee would just keep me up until dawn).

How's that for a lite pink sway? Would you add/remove anything?

[foxtrotmama]

If you are having trouble with the carbs on the regular LE, I would check out the PCOS variation. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

You need to be on a different form of LE Diet in that case. 50-60 g protein, 50-60 g fat, and then get your carbs from whole grains, fruit, and vegetables instead. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

You MUST do some exercise. You cannot go couch potato in this situation because it's really bad for your blood sugar. People who gain weight on standard LE need to do exercise even if it is moderate since the benefits to your blood sugar outweigh any risks of building muscle. I urge you to do what you can do.

Coffee and wine are fine on both types of diet.

[maggie84]

You need to be on a different form of LE Diet in that case. 50-60 g protein, 50-60 g fat, and then get your carbs from whole grains, fruit, and vegetables instead. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

You MUST do some exercise. You cannot go couch potato in this situation because it's really bad for your blood sugar. People who gain weight on standard LE need to do exercise even if it is moderate since the benefits to your blood sugar outweigh any risks of building muscle. I urge you to do what you can do.

Coffee and wine are fine on both types of diet.

Nice! Thank you! Without knowing i was pretty much eating like the PCOS diet already! And I will add some walks, that's probably easy to find the time to do!

[atomic sagebrush]

That's great! :)