Newbie - advice welcome!

[tiptoesway]

Hello! I'm 34 years old and have a three year old son. I am interested for any input into my sway because my husband and I will start TTC in either February or March and would like to try the girl sway. Here is everything I can think of that could influence my sway
1. I breastfed until just shy of my son's 3 year bday - just stopped in September. I quickly lost 5 lb and toned up considerably without doing anything differently just by dropping breastfeeding.
2. I am very active and it will be a challenge for me to reduce my calories! I think I have a naturally boy friendly diet: eggs, avocado, quinoa, tomatoes, loads of leafy green veggies, almonds, yogurt, bananas, pasta, tofu, cheese, oatmeal, almond butter, coffee, chocolate, and celtic sea salt on everything ha! (it's an ayurvedic thing - we try to eat all the mineral dense salts like grey or pink, not just stripped down to Na like the white salts) but I'm pre-disposed to over salt I think!
3. I have been a strict vegetarian (no meat or fish) since age 8 but JUST started taking Fermented Cod Liver Oil with Butter Oil in it per "MamaNatural"'s (an online spokeswoman for pregnancy and fertility) advice.
4. I do 60 minutes of very active vinyasa yoga about 5 days a week. JUST this week, after learning the benefits of cardio I have added 30 miutes of cardio a day to my plans.
5. I am a fitness instructor and so my job is very physical (hence the point on #2 about reducing calories being hard for me!)
6. I am 5'8" 135 lb.
7. Dietary Changes so far for my sway:
Whole Milk yogurt every day
Pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, walnuts, cashews on all my salads
I wake at 7:30 am and drink coffee with honey and half and half. I eat a cup of whole milk yogurt around 9 am and try to limit my breakfast to just that but feel I need a little something since my work is so physical, but maybe i could try better to go without. Open to advice around that!
I stopped eating bananas and potatoes and tomatoes this week.
Trying to eat loads of hard cheeses.
8. Supplements: I take all of these every day. Please let me know if I should do anything differently or tweak anything? Or stop taking any of these after ovulation on the cycles where I TTC as I'm clueless with that, just taking them all all the way through my cycle each day!
Rainbow Light Prenatal One Vitamin (I've read here I should just take folic acid - eep)
Liquid Vitamin B6/B12 complex (I need this as a vegetarian - but does it sway boy?) (has 50% folic, 100% b6, 17,000%!! B12, Niacin 100%, Riboflavin 100%, Vitamin C 30%,
Vitex 1,000 mg/day
Evening Primrose Oil Capsules 1300 mg
COQ10 Capsule 300 mg (as ubiquinol)
Acidopholus Capsule 2 billion
Fermented Cod Liver Oil with Butter Oil
Calcium Chocolates 1000 mg/day (100% dv calcium, also includes 250% dv Vitamind D - no no for girl sway from what I remember from other boards on here, right?!)
Calcium/Magnesium Liquid Supplement 1200 mg CA (120%) /600 Mag (150%) a day, also includes: 250% Vitamin D (is this bad or needs to be in there to absorb cal/mag?)
Ancient Minerals Magnesium Body Spray (most bioavailable form of Magnesium) - 15 sprays each night.
Red Clover Leaf and Nettle Tincture Tea
*I know these are not all recommended on this site from what I have seen on the boards, but a lot I have seen boost overall fertility which I worry about at my age*/
Cranberry Extract 4,200 mg fresh fruit equivalet/day

My husband is doing
Licorice Root
Fermented Cod Liver Oil with Butter Oil
COQ10

9. Charting: I have been charting my ovulation on Fertility Friend for 6 months. Cycles were pretty irregular with breastfeeding (even though just naps and night mostly into the late twos) but since weaning my cycle is about 27-29 days and I ovulate on Day 14-16. I get the first faint line reading on the lh test about 4 days before I ovulate. My plan was to try in February - just once on Day 12 of my cycle or the second day I see a faint line on the LH test to shoot for the 3 days before Ovulation plan for swaying girl. Then if that doesn't get us pregnant, I might go all out and not do Shettle's timing in March bc I really want my kids to be closer to 4 year age gap and not try for 6 months since girl stuff makes TTC timeframe longer it seems.

10. Miscellaneous : Where I live now we have cold snowy winters. In March I'll be in a tropical environment. Would this in any way affect a sway?....

Thanks so much for picking apart my sway and telling me your advice everyone!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok just super quick and please bump this for me for tomorrow to answer more indepth -

at 34 you have NO worries about your age. Please proceed with caution before assuming "I must boost fertility" because I have seen tons of people do this, and end up with boys. It is not necessary (and in fact, many of the herbs and vitamins said to "boost fertility" actually end up messing up your cycles hugely - such as EPO and B6) IMO you are taking a huge and unneccesary amount of supplements and yes, I would have you wean off of 99% of them. If you are not comfortable with that, drop back to 3x a week.

Even as a vegetarian you do not need to be taking 17000% b12. That may even be harmful to you. Rainbow light already HAS a massive amount of nutrients in it and I find what you are taking to be frightening and concerning. Too many nutrients are just as bad, if not worse, as too few (and I mean for a healthy pregnancy, not your sway) I would definitely wean off that additional B because you do not need it if you're on Rainbow Light anyway. Your body is actually quite good at storing B12 and you probably have more stored than you could use in 10 years even if you stopped taking it now. Barring underlying health problems, chronic alcoholism, or being elderly, only very strict vegans that never take supplements and never eat animal or fortified foods for 2 years or more develop b12 deficiencies.

I personally don't believe in cal-mag for swaying but if you do, that's fine, but you have to find something without the Vit. D. it sways hugely blue.

Drop probiotics as that was a huge blue swayer for us

[tiptoesway]

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my post! Yes - I agree - it is too much! I hadn't realized how compulsive I'd become taking all these supplements until I put the dosages together for this thread. I would read about something online and then add it to the Amazon cart and it all started piling up. Not sure exactly how to wean off but I will start by reducing the B vitamins to every other day this week and then none at all next week. I think it's ok to stop the Evening Primrose cold turkey since I've only been on it a month and CoQ10 too. I will drop my probiotic starting tomorrow. And, I will swap back to just using the magnesium spray from Essential Minerals instead of the chews and liquid cal/mag supplements that all have Vitamin D added in for absorption. I have been doing the magnesium for 6 months now, also having read it helps prevent future morning sickness if you take it in advance of pregnancy. ha! I am even considering ditching the rainbow light prenatal for a folic acid like you have suggested on other boards.
Eagerly awaiting your more indepth feedback whenever the time allows.
OK - I feel I need to chill out a bit around this all. I think the timing of a waiting window has me a bit stir crazy doing everything I can to optimize my fertility and everything and I hope I haven't gone cukoo overboard in a harmful way on these supplements!! Now wondering how long they take to clear out of my system...

[atomic sagebrush]

BEst way to wean off supps (IMVHO) is to take them every other day one week, then back to every 2, then 3, till down to one per week then drop them. :) Don't go from every other day to none, that will mess you up.

EPO IS safe to just drop as are probiotics and Vit D is much more forgiving (since it's stored in fat and not water soluble)

Coq10 you may continue if you'd like. I often use that for pink sways because it may lower blood sugar and we've gotten decent results with it (at worst, it's neutral)

[atomic sagebrush]

1)That's great, I think the effects of breastfeeding continue a few months after stopping so that will still be working for you.

2)Don't worry about the salt - most of us totally gave up on that and our results have only gone UP. Makes it much easier to stick to diet, that's for sure.

Most of those foods can have a place in your LE Diet, just maybe less of them and less often. I'd prob. only drop oatmeal and avocado, keep the other stuff in moderation. Low carb veg are completely free and unlimited you can have as much as you want.

Coffee has been a great pink sway for us. The claims they make about coffee and swaying were debunked totally and then we've had huge success with it for pink so keep drinkign your coffee.

3)I'd skip the cod liver oil

4) and 5) you can get girls with other types of exercise too, the more you do, the more it may sway. The important thing is not to be gaining weight and adding muscle on a higher protein diet while doing musclebuilding exercise. :agree:

6) Start off eating 1800-2000 cals, 50-60 g protein and fat, unlimited low carb veg, and high carb veg count only cals, not protein or fat in them. This gives you a lot more food to eat and will help you keep weight on. (has still gotten great results for swaying at that nutrient intake)

7)I would do skim milk and not eat "loads" of cheese. IF you beleive in cal-mag for swyaing, that's fine, just do it through supplements and not eating a lto of dairy which has lots of nutrients in it.

If you need breakfast, eat it. it's just one little thing that may help some people. We still get girls even with breakfast.

You can have potatoes, bananas, and tomatoes. the only reason those were ever "banned" was because the mineral-type diets were doing so much dairy, they got tons of potassium that way. Since we aren't doing that, we have to get ptoassium from other sources and it's important not to cut out potassium foods as you can die from not getting enough. My daugher is like 30% potato!!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

8) Re vitex, I'd only take that from AF-CD 12 or positive OPK whichever comes first. Then take the rest of the month off of it and restart it again on CD 1 (after taking a pregnancy test even if you're sure you aren't pregnant)

Red clover and nettle have to go. Red clover is not safe for premenopausal women and both can really mess up the menstrual cycle. Both of them may possibly sway blue. MANY things claimed to be "good for fertility" are only for people with moderate to severe PCOS or who are close to menopause. When peopel who are not in this group take them, they are actually very detrimental to fertility (especially when swaying pink, because the diet itself can reduce hormone levels, as can vitex). So just because something is said by herbalists to "help fertility", if it only helps fertility for people in a certain group, and you're not in that group, then they make things worse. Trust me, red clover and nettle are not prereq's for a heatlhy pregnancy!!

9)most of us on here have SHettles opposites - in fact 2-3-4 of them haha. but it's fine if you want to give it a try. But just be really really sure that you have only one attempt. DO NOT have attempts on O-3 and O-2 thinking that timing sways - because we have found that it doesn't (and like I mention most of us have the kiddos to prove it!) It's number of attempts and that is probably the only reason why anyone ever thought Shettles worked. Keep the one attempt as long as you can, even give up timing before you give up that one attempt. :)

10) I can't speak to every scenario of course, but living in the N. Hemi, March tends to sway pink (probably due to cues your body is getting right now!!), and also couples TTC around the equator are more likely to conceive girls, so that's a win-win as far as I am concerned. There could always be some bizzare thing that I don't know about yet but that is what the theories claim.

[tiptoesway]

Wonderful, thanks again for the thoughtfulness and time in your response, Atomic Sagebrush!
A few follow up questions:
1) How long does it take most couples on here with wife in my age range to conceive at all trying the girl sway method? (With my son, we conceived the very first month of trying: I was taking prenatal, royal jelly, ashwagnda, doing yoga every day, not drinking alchohol or coffee, and had sex every day of my cycle from menstruation to 3-4 days past ovulation). I am hoping we will conceive quickly this time but the girl sway strategies seem to make it harder to conceive so I am wondering if it typically takes longer?
2) Is it safe to drop the Fermented Cod Liver oil cold turkey? I've only been on it a month and the only supplement I am thinking I need to "wean" off of at this point is the Prenatal Rainbow Light Vitamin and the B Vitamins. I also swapped out the clover leaf and nettle tea for peppermint tea (I got those herbs from Susun Weed's Wise Woman Herbal for the Childbearing Year to boost fertility but don't want anything that might sway boy. I think one of the most interesting things for me in reading these boards and posts is that I notice before educating myself my lifestyle, diet, mindset is very boy sway. ha!
3) Should my husband keep with the COQ10, licorice pills, and fish oil?
4) Re Vitex: I am taking in every day of my cycle at 1000 mg daily other than when I menstruate. I am confused about the advice to only take it until Cycle day 12 or positive OPK. I thought it was to extend the luteal phase, in which case I'd assume you need to take it after ovulation, not before, though I know very little. I had a short luteal phase 7-10 days while I was breastfeeding. The combo of weaning and vitex has finally stretched my luteal phase to 13 days as of last cycle! :) So I'm nervous to affect that since it's important for pregnancy to stick and not miscarry. I also read on this site Herbal Infertility Treatments | Herbs to Get Pregnant (http://natural-fertility-info.com/fertility-herbs-fertility-supplements.html) "Re: Vitex and Pregnancy, German research shows Vitex can be taken safely through the end of the third month of pregnancy and may help prevent miscarriage. It is stopping it suddenly in pregnancy that is not suggested." But I too have read conflicting studies and other midwifes who recommend weaning off of it once pregnant. This worries me a bit.
3) Do the 50-60 grams protein and fat mean 50 grams fat/50 grams protein or combined 50 grams?
4) The piece I am most unclear on is the timing and ONE ATTEMPT concept. Is there a post I could read about that? I have read perhaps here or perhaps elsewhere that we should try every day with a condom between menstruation and ovulation and then pick ONE day during the fertile O-3/4 day window to try without a condom. Is that what this means? Just want to be sure I'm clear.
Thanks again for all the wisdom!

[tiptoesway]

Thanks so much Atomic Sagebrush!! Lots of good insights from your response. I tried to post a response yesterday but it didn't post, so hope these don't double up a bit later, ha! Sorry if they do.
1) It sounds like I should wean off of B-Vitamins and Rainbow Light Prenatal (exchanging it for 800 mg folic). The fish oil, evening primrose oil, calcium chews (w/ vit d), calcium/magnesium liquid (w/ vit d), nettle tea, red clover tea are ok to stop cold turkey? I will keep the vitex, 4,500 fresh fruit equivalent cranberry pills (w/67% daily value vitamin c - is that ok?), coq10, and magnesium body spray, and switch to folic acid and peppermint tea.
2) I am confused about the vitex. I had a short luteal phase while breastfeeding (8-10 days). Vitex and weaning have stretched it to a nice 13 day length last cycle! :) I am using vitex to lengthen my luteal phase, primarily, I didn't even know it swayed girl til I came on here and saw that recommendation. So my concern/confusion is: if I stop taking it after ovulation, it might not help lengthen the luteal phase/prevent miscarriage. Here is what I have read on that, though I should also consult my midwife, I suppose. I am curious to hear more about your recommendation to not take it after ovulation? (here is the passage I read on vitex that lead me to think it would be safe after ovulation):
Vitex use During Pregnancy
It is believed that Vitex’s ability to increase progesterone levels has explained the positive results seen by herbalists and midwives who used it to help prevent recurrent miscarriages in women. No studies on humans have been done yet supporting this, only traditional use. There have been reproductive toxicology studies with female rats where they were given up to 80 times the concentrated used clinically in humans, showing no difference in offspring compared with the rats given none.

German research shows Vitex can be taken safely through the end of the third month of pregnancy and may help prevent miscarriage. Vitex is still considered safe to take after the third month, but it is thought that it may stimulate lactation too early, so for this reason it is suggested to not continue after the third month of pregnancy. Also, during the third month of pregnancy the placenta takes over progesterone production, so Vitex most likely won’t be needed.

If you are deciding to use Vitex during pregnancy, we suggest you consult with an herbalist or midwife for guidance and supervision.

3) Is that 50-60 grams Each of protein and fat daily?
4) As for the one time only try per cycle, I have read elsewhere to have sex every day from menstruation to ovulation to reduce sperm count to sway girl. SO should we do this but with a condom and then have unprotected sex one time (or every 4th day) within the fertile window?
5) Looking at my last chart when I start taking the LH detecting strips, I see a very faint line 5 days before ovulation that got it's darkest (but never technically "darker than the test line" as package said it would 2 days before ovulation. My Egg White Cervical Mucous also is weird that it is produced days 9-13 of a cycle ovulating on day 16! and no egg white leading right up before ovulation, just wet/watery cervical mucous. Will this affect my sway?
6) Shettles recommends missionary position and no female orgasm!?! Is this recommended here too?

Interestingly, upon reading the boards more, I realize how very boy-friendly-sway my diet/lifetsyle/mindset are. I am very muscular naturally, eat super healthy nutrient dense foods and loads of raw oils and salts, and when I conceived my son I was textbook: no coffee, no alchohol, lots of vegetarian but nutrient dense foods (avocadoes, eggs, kale, no tofu/soy products), and sex every single day from after menstruation until 3 days after ovulation. Even though it would be amazing to have one of each, I will be honestly be so happy whatever gender my baby is, but I am glad to read this information to see that just by living the way I do I was unintentionally swaying boy! ha!

[atomic sagebrush]

It takes an average of 3 months for everyone. I don't break it down any further than that but 34 is really right in the fertility wheelhouse. I know "they" put the fear of God into people over "the 35 thing" but it really isn't true.

As a general rule it's safe to stop any fat-based stuff cold turkey. HOWEVER I do want you to wean off of it as it can be thinning to the blood and stopping blood thinners cold turkey is never a good idea.

Anyone putting that much thought into their supps is yes, in a blue mindset. :) But that's ok, most of us boy mamas are like that, myself included.

3) Those are fine if you want him to take them. what pattern is he taking the licorice root in?? I want to be sure he's doing it safely. Coq10 and fish oil both have evidence pointing both ways for swaying (when taken by guys and taken on their own- I give them to blue swayers in combo with other stuff ) so it's up to you - I do not have the data to know for sure

4)All I can tell you is based on my experience of lo these last 9 years that vitex has serious downsides that are not realized by 99.99% of herbologists from any country. I've seen gobs of people miscarry while taking vitex during pregnancy and it is among the main reasons why I do not recommend anyone taking it during pregnancy. Vitex is pretty much my mortal enemy at this point because I've seen so many people either inexplicably not conceive while taking it (it used to be used as a birth control pill back in the olden days) or have losses taking it during pregnancy. We also have a study about chimpanzees that eat vitex berries naturally and none of them conceived successfully while eating them.

What you do in the first part of your cycle actually has far more to do with your LP than you might think, because it is the hole that the egg comes out of (so formed in the first part of the cycle as the egg develops) that turns into the corpus luteum and makes progesterone, and also a secondary surge of estrogen released about 7 DPO that maintain your uterine lining. I have seen tons of people start taking vitex and develop a short LP so it is not the miracle cure that some claim. since vitex suppresses estrogen production possibly making more progesterone, it can actually interfere with the secondary estrogen surge and cause a shorter LP.

You can get pregnant with a short LP of even 10 days. Anything 11 days and up is fine. My suspicion is that your LP got better from weaning and not vitex, but if you do decide to come off it after ovulation, or continue into pregnancy, be sure to wean off it when you want to stop. The ONLY safe point to stop vitex suddenly in a cycle you may be pregnant, is prior to ovulation because at that point, your body stops making estrogen and starts making progesterone anyway, and it's a safe "cutting off" point since it mimicks what your body is doing naturally anyway.

All that having been said, I myself did take Vitex twice, and got a boy and a girl doing that. If it was a miracle fix for fertility issues, or a miracle pink swayer, I'd be more on board with it, but it causes more problems (by far) than it fixes and it also gets barely better than 50-50 results for pink, so I'm not a fan.

50-60 g fat and 50-60 g protein. not combined.

There are many different ways people do one attempt. What the core principle is, is that you have only one round of unprotected sex in your fertile window. Beyond that, it's largely up to you what additional strategies you tack onto it. If you wanted to BD with a condom beforehand, totally up to you, although it may cut odds of conception to do that since your husband will be making fewer sperm than he might have been otherwise.

[tiptoesway]

Great - thanks! A relief about the age/fertility quandary. Now a bit concerned about the vitex. I have a history of taking it for years before pregnancy it was prescribed to my when I lived abroad by an Austrian ObGyn to help with my really bad PMS symptoms (and it worked like magic). I have probably been on it for 6 months straight now. Now at 1000 mg/day except when I menstruate. I wonder if it is safe to stop taking right at Ovulation day of the cycle in March where we start trying to conceive.

What is the recommended dose of licorice root for my husband? I'm pretty sure he is just taking one pill each day. (450mg)

[atomic sagebrush]

Yeah, if you've been on it for 6 months straight then I'd probably do something more along the lines of cutting back on it over a month or two instead. I have to say that I have only ever seen a handful of people take that high of a dose and it makes me nervous, but it's your sway, your way. :)

Since licorice root can cause high blood pressure we have come up with a pattern of taking it where he takes 450 mg 1-3x a day from your CD 1 thru CD 14 and then takes the rest of your cycle off. He should take it no longer than 6 months straight and then he needs at least a month or 6 weeks off it. Usually, I have people stop using it at this point anyway because at that point I like to start dropping things that are not super effective in favor of odds of conception.

[tiptoesway]

Thanks for all the great Atomic. And - let me know if I am doing this right - do I start a new thread or keep on with this one so you can see all the previous details? Thanks!/Sorry if I'm doing it wrong!
Anyways - it's been a while since I posted. I am weaned off EVERYTHING except for:
4,200 fresh fruit equivalent Cranberry pills
300 mg CoQ10 as Ubiquinol
and 450 mg folic acid
500 mg Vitex
magnesium chloride body spray every night to help with sleep and hopefully ease nausea when I do get pregnant and also to perhaps sway girl?...

Hubby is on
300 mg CoQ10
4200 Cranberry
and 450 licorice root.

I have also started running 60 minutes every morning and skipping breakfast - I try not to eat until noon and on early rising days or days where I teach yoga in the morning I have just some pineapple or a Noosa Yogurt a few hours after rising. I spoke with my midwife who said that vitex is safe for pregnancy but that she prefers progesterone creams for luteal defficiency if I truly have a luteal defficiency. My last luteal phase (according to Fertility Friend) was 10, the cycle before that was 13 (before I weaned off my B vitamins and 1000 mg vitex to 500) and I am currently on day 9 of luteal phase. I hope these shifts rebalance and I am able to conceive the first go like I did with my son.
Here is my question: should I wait another cycle (would be three months) to start Trying for a daughter to strengthen the sway and reduce vitamin overload from all the supplements I was taking just a month and half ago (esp. that MEGA does of B vitamins!) or would it be ok to start trying in Feb with a STRONG sway. I am open to advice. My husband wants to wait til March but I want to start in Feb. because I know with the every 4th day timing it might take longer to conceive and so I want a little head start so we stay close to our ideal 4 year age gap we are hoping between children. In the end, I would prefer a larger age gap and one of each though, so am open to advice!

[atomic sagebrush]

whatever's more convenient for you. I try to answer all posts (except in support threads) so I will see them eventually no matter how you post them.

thoughts on magnesium - if you need it that is fine. I do want to mention that the reason why people take mag for swaying is to help calcium work better. Magnesium has never been thought to sway pink on its own. But if it is helping you sleep that is up to you if you wish to continue it.

I personally disagree with your midwife about vitex being safe in pregnancy (not saying it isn't safe but it certainly isn't proven) but totally up to you. DO wean off it when you're ready to stop, don't just quit cold turkey.

Can you get Clomid or Femara?? that will benefit your sway and your LP.

Whether to try in Feb or Mar is one of those darn crystal ball questions that I honestly can't say. There's just no way for me to know if Feb. is soon enough or you should wait till March. If you do wish to have a strong sway in other ways then what many people do, is sway very strictly the first month and then just count on getting BFN. If they get pregnant, they are happy to have done a strong sway (altho be warned many of the "strict" tactics have not seemed to really do anything other than cut odds of conception) and if htey don't they have that much longer on diet. :)

[tiptoesway]

Thanks Atomic! I always appreciate your info. :) :)

Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking: a STRICT sway in FEB: cut calories, loads of exercise, and sex once every 4 days. Is there anything else you would add to make it a strict sway??...

Then maybe once every 3 days in March if Feb doesn't do the trick.

I am currently on day 11 of Luteal Phase - which is a good sign that I don't have a luteal defficiency. I think I will taper off the Vitex then. Do you have a recommended way of decreasing and tapering? Currently taking 500 mg/day and plan to not take when I get my period in the next day or so (I usually don't take it when I bleed). Then start again but start with tapering. Also might be the cycle I try to conceive!!

Since Luteal phase is strong, I would rather not mess with clomid etc since I am an all natural kind of mama.

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, that's not really a strict sway. What a strict sway is, is doing things like jelly, timing, frequency that cuts odds of conception a lot. I actually don't generally recommend doing those things but we can go over them if you want.

Diet, exericse, and one attempt is a NORMAL sway. :)

I would just go to every other day, then every 2, then 3, till down to one per week, then drop.

[tiptoesway]

Oh ha! Felt strict to me, guess bc I love eating so much ha! Tell me more about the strict sway timing and frequency and ??JELLY???
In terms of cutting down vitex - is it one week with one every other day, then one week one every three days, or more like Day 1 vitex Day 2 none Day 3 Vitex Day 4 none Day 5 none Day 6 Vitex Day 7 none Day 8 non Day 9 none Day 10 vitex...etc. til I'm down to none?
Also with the timing once in a fertile cycle - is it ok to aim for the one time the day before ovulation to increase odds (goes against Shettles, but I get from these boards that that is ok!)

[atomic sagebrush]

It would be using Shettles timing plus either abstain or daily release for hubby (or "hurry up FR" as a last resort) and the jellies are things like Acijel, Sylk, RepHresh, or if you REALLY wanted to be strict, some even douche or use spermicide, but I don't recommend that. You'd also want to do shallow release and immediate J and D.

However you want to do it. The point is jsut that you're gradually letting your body adjust to not having it instead of shocking it by dropping totally. Should take about 3 weeks.

Yes yes it's fine to DTD the day before O. That is what got me my daughter. Most of us on here have 2-3-4 Shettles opposites.