Another Q on ovulation..

[TTC5]

So I got my first + (peak) using a CBFM of CD 20. FF told me I "may"ovulate CD 21...
I had a slight rise in temp the following morning (cd21)and another peak test. It still told me I may ovulate CD 21.
CD 22 my monitor went back to high and my temp had a bigger rise than day before.
Today, CD 23 and my temp has soared (I am not TTC yet) and FF has put cross hairs at CD 20.

Three Q's.

Is it possible to Ovulate on the day your temp dips (I thought the day it rises is the day you Ovulate?) and the first + test, if you get 2 days of +'s.

Also..

Why was FF telling me I would most likely Ovulate CD 21 but has now put me on CD 20?

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/336025

[rainbowflower]

yes, it's possible to ovulate on the day of the temp dip

FF originally "guesses" that you will ovulate the day after a positive OPK (which is essentially what has happened when you get a "peak" on the CBFM - it means it has detected the LH surge), although it is possible to ovulate on the day of the LH surge. According to all my scans I ovulated on the first peak the cycle I conceived my DS. The CBFM always gives you a 2nd peak day after the first - not because it's detected more LH, but because you normally ovulate on that day so it is a very fertile day for you to BD on.

I think FF has put your crosshairs in the right place based on your temps and monitor readings

[TTC5]

Thankyou!! This monitor is all new to me lol, so do you think I should use dip stick opks aswell or no need?

[rainbowflower]

well, I will be! it's possible for the CBFM to miss your LH surge just as OPKs can. I had that one cycle - I had lots of "high" results in a row and never got the "peak". Thankfully I had an inkling that I might be ovulating so I used some ICs in the afternoons and picked up my pos OPK with one of those. I'll be doing the same this time. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

well, I will be! it's possible for the CBFM to miss your LH surge just as OPKs can. I had that one cycle - I had lots of "high" results in a row and never got the "peak". Thankfully I had an inkling that I might be ovulating so I used some ICs in the afternoons and picked up my pos OPK with one of those. I'll be doing the same this time. :)

Great tip!

[atomic sagebrush]

So I got my first + (peak) using a CBFM of CD 20. FF told me I "may"ovulate CD 21...
I had a slight rise in temp the following morning (cd21)and another peak test. It still told me I may ovulate CD 21.
CD 22 my monitor went back to high and my temp had a bigger rise than day before.
Today, CD 23 and my temp has soared (I am not TTC yet) and FF has put cross hairs at CD 20.

Three Q's.

Is it possible to Ovulate on the day your temp dips (I thought the day it rises is the day you Ovulate?) and the first + test, if you get 2 days of +'s.

Also..

Why was FF telling me I would most likely Ovulate CD 21 but has now put me on CD 20?

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/336025

Tamara has always said by the time the temp rises, the egg is dead, and that meshed with what my TCYOF book said as well. Altho I have since seen some exceptions to that, it usually is true.

I think the reason why FF has you Oing on CD 20 is because your temps went down again that day rather than having a steady rise. So since the rule of thumb is that once the temp goes up, the egg is dead, you probably Oed the last day your temps were lower rather than higher.

[rainbowflower]

atomic, if you search on FF for women who have DTD only on O+1 and review the charts where OV is definite, there are still a good % of pregnancies where the only BD attempt in the fertile window is in the afternoon/evening AFTER their temp rise.

In fact, quite a number who BD only on O+1 and have a definite OV day get pregnant (where there is no doubt as to when OV was based on their temps/fertile signs), although I'd say that it's half the number who DTD only on OV day. (15% who DTD only on O+1 conceive, compared to 30% who DTD only on OV day)

[Flava]

wow you got 3 high day before peak? I only ever get 1 or go from low to peak!
I think you O'd on cd 20 but we always get 2 peak days. I use the monitor and the smiley test just to make sure so I think it's best if you get some opk's too.
Anyway I ttc for a long time with DD4 and got lot's of bfn because I always tried on the second peak day. I get a bfp when I try on the first day!

[rainbowflower]

that cycle I actually had 2 "high" days before my "peak" (well, the day the peak was missed)

First ever cycle using it I had 6 highs then a peak (and got a BFP that cycle)
Second cycle was the one I only got highs on - it was after my first AF after my MC and I ovulated on CD10. Had I ovulated later I'd probably have had more highs before OV.
Third cycle I had 5 highs before the peak (and got a BFP that cycle too)

and about to start using it for my fourth cycle now! should be POAS for the first time this cycle tomorrow.

[atomic sagebrush]

atomic, if you search on FF for women who have DTD only on O+1 and review the charts where OV is definite, there are still a good % of pregnancies where the only BD attempt in the fertile window is in the afternoon/evening AFTER their temp rise.

In fact, quite a number who BD only on O+1 and have a definite OV day get pregnant (where there is no doubt as to when OV was based on their temps/fertile signs), although I'd say that it's half the number who DTD only on OV day. (15% who DTD only on O+1 conceive, compared to 30% who DTD only on OV day)

I would suspect that at least some of those gals released two eggs and hit only the second egg and that is why TCYOF says to wait until you have 3 high temps before resuming BD if you are using NPF method as birth control.

[rainbowflower]

I would suspect that at least some of those gals released two eggs and hit only the second egg and that is why TCYOF says to wait until you have 3 high temps before resuming BD if you are using NPF method as birth control.
unless anyone was having scans it would be impossible to know for sure. I'd have thought that temps wouldn't rise much until both eggs were out in that case because the oestrogen being produced from egg #2 would keep cooling the temp after #1 was released

I've seen it written many times that some eggs can survive 24-48hrs after ovulation. I guess this all comes down to egg quality.

[TTC5]

wow you got 3 high day before peak? I only ever get 1 or go from low to peak!
I think you O'd on cd 20 but we always get 2 peak days. I use the monitor and the smiley test just to make sure so I think it's best if you get some opk's too.
Anyway I ttc for a long time with DD4 and got lot's of bfn because I always tried on the second peak day. I get a bfp when I try on the first day!

Yeah i know crazy hey! It is not very common to get this many peak days?

[rainbowflower]

sorry, I missed that question. You ALWAYS get at least 2 peak days when using the CBFM - the day of the LH surge (i.e. day of the pos OPK) and the following day is an automatic one because you usually OV on that day.
If you have a long surge you might get an extra peak day.

[TTC5]

Thanks Rainbow, ok so let me get this straight, the FIRST PEAK is the day I would ovulate?

[rainbowflower]

no, usually you'll ovulate on the 2nd peak although it IS possible to OV on the first peak, but the first peak is a very good day for BDing if you want to conceive either way

[carmella_marie]

I always O on the day of the temp dip. When your temp rises, it means O has already happened (temp rises due to progesterone rise after O) FF goes by temps, so if you have three days of high temps above the previous 6 days, that is part of the way it determines O. It was guessing CD 21 but after a few days of high temps realized you O'ed on the 20th. temps only tell you when O has passed, not when you will O in the future.

[TTC5]

no, usually you'll ovulate on the 2nd peak although it IS possible to OV on the first peak, but the first peak is a very good day for BDing if you want to conceive either way

Thanks :)

[TTC5]

I always O on the day of the temp dip. When your temp rises, it means O has already happened (temp rises due to progesterone rise after O) FF goes by temps, so if you have three days of high temps above the previous 6 days, that is part of the way it determines O. It was guessing CD 21 but after a few days of high temps realized you O'ed on the 20th. temps only tell you when O has passed, not when you will O in the future.

Thankyou xx

[atomic sagebrush]

unless anyone was having scans it would be impossible to know for sure. I'd have thought that temps wouldn't rise much until both eggs were out in that case because the oestrogen being produced from egg #2 would keep cooling the temp after #1 was released

I've seen it written many times that some eggs can survive 24-48hrs after ovulation. I guess this all comes down to egg quality.

But the corpus luteum begins to release progesterone and so the first egg's CL would begin to produce progesterone on its own timetable and that would be represented in the temps.

My understanding based on numerous sources is that eggs cannot survive for 48 hours. 24 hours is the absolute max and most eggs expire sooner. The 48 hour time period for potentially being fertile, is based on the idea that a person releases one egg and it lives to its maximum lifespan and then the person just happens to release another egg that then also lives to the maximum but that is only meant to err on the side of safety in those using NFP as birth control - the possibility of that scenario actually happening is as unlikely as getting struck by lightning. Most of the time when two eggs are released they are released much sooner than that.

There is also the possibility that one of the high temps is an outlier as well which is why TCOYF and the other NFP sites want you to wait for 3 high temps when using NFP as a birth control method. That way, if your first high temp or even two is/are just a mistake, the three day pattern ensures that your egg is for sure dead and gone and you can resume unprotected intercourse. Not because you may be ovulating during those days you're having high temps!! They are trying to ensure that NPF is as reliable and mistake-proof as possible and so the three day rule exists to make sure there is an actual pattern of high temps in place and not one "oops I got too hot when I was sleeping" followed up by a low temp the next day, KWIM??