What is UP with the BD thru O for pink lately?

[atomic sagebrush]

Updated 1-31-18 Please scroll down a few posts below where I have an indepth explanation about why not to EVER do this method OR BD to a cutoff for pink OR for blue. IT DOES NOT WORK and you really, really put your sway at massive risk by doing so. I also have another thread in which I go over this very topic that has a lot of good explanation in it here, mostly on the second page: Super Confused about Frequency!!! (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/55303-super-confused-about-frequency.html)

Did IG change their recommendations or something?? This past month I have about 20 new people all of whom are trying to do daily BD thru O or to a cutoff for pink and I've barely ever had anyone do that before???? Where is this coming from and what is their reasoning?

[oxox2013]

I don't really know where it is coming from but reading through a few sways I have noticed people doing it to and it appears to work. I have started considering it if we don't get pregnant soon. I know it's probably not the smartest given everything I've read and what you would recommend, but dang if it isn't tempting!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[maximbella]

Atomic, can you explain what that is? I'm not familiar...

[MiaMelb]

Yes have definitely seen a few newbies asking for advice on their sway and this has been in their strategies. Curious.

[kc15880]

when I did my monitored cycle both my doctor & pathologist advised BD everyday in the fertile window - I think they generally worry about people not having enough attempts but 1 at +opk works well for me

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't really know where it is coming from but reading through a few sways I have noticed people doing it to and it appears to work. I have started considering it if we don't get pregnant soon. I know it's probably not the smartest given everything I've read and what you would recommend, but dang if it isn't tempting!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NO ONE DO THIS!!!!!!!!

Seriously, please, in the name of all that is good and holy, Ladies, do NOT NOT NOT do this. Don't do it for blue. Don't do it for pink. DO NOT DO BD DAILY THRU O or to a cutoff anyone on this site ever ever ever. NEVER!

It does not help you get pregnant. It doesn't help anyone do anything. All it does is prevent conception when done correctly for many, many men (this is among the #1 things that people do "wrong" when TTC) because by the time the egg shows up many guys are shooting nothing but dust. all the big batches of sperm will be dead and gone before your fertile window even opens. PLUS a lot of guys "run out of steam" and then cannot perform for your actual fertile period!

For blue swayers, it's really risky because frequent release may sway pink, so by the time the egg shows up they're basically doing a pink sway ESPECIALLY because some blue swayers' hubbies do run out of steam and cannot perform in the fertile window, and this has ended up causing many people to end up with not only many days of pointless release, but one attempt in the fertile window often with a cutoff because hubby runs out of steam on O-3 and can't go again till after the egg is dead and gone!! DO NOT DO THIS STUPID METHOD FOR BLUE.

For pink swayers, it's really risky because not only can some guys be rendered basically infertile by it as described above, but also because some guys are actually not that affected by it and can just shake it off, then you end up having three attempts in the fertile window which sways hugely blue. Additionally, things invariably go wrong when people try it (hubs is tired, can't perform, kid in bed, people get sick) and this all too often ends up morphing into every other day, which not only can be 2 or even 3 attempts in fertile window, but is also a huge blue sway on the frequency end of it. DO NOT DO THIS STUPID METHOD FOR PINK. And do not think that by doing a cutoff you are changing anything because you can't predict in advance when you will ovulate and so it is very very VERY easy for you to ovulate 1-2-3 days early and whammo there you are you BD 3 times and on O day ANYWAY.

Plus, both of them are VERY stressful for DH and may make him burn out on swaying sooner rather than later and some husbands get so fed up with swaying that they will even refuse to TTC any more.

If you want to up odds of conception, do SMEP. That is the best way to up odds of conception. Yes, it may sway a bit blue, but at least it helps you get pregnant. trying to do BD daily thru O does NOT help you get pregnant and it also may sway blue (and not a little bit either especially if something comes up and you end up having EOD attempts plus 2-3 in the fertile window). It is a dumb, dumb, dumb method. I don't care if it seems to work out sometimes for people. It won't work out for most people most of the time and I cannot and will not ever recommend it because the practical application is impossible and doesn't even work!!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

when I did my monitored cycle both my doctor & pathologist advised BD everyday in the fertile window - I think they generally worry about people not having enough attempts but 1 at +opk works well for me

^^^^^^ This is what I have read and been told by several people "in the know" - it is the FIRST thing that doctors and RE's rule out when people are having trouble conceiving, because so many people do exactly that and render themselves functionally infertile because there is barely any sperm by the time the egg shows up.

DO NOT DO THIS STUPID METHOD for anyone TTC!!!

[kc15880]

I totally agree!!! Frequent BD had us trying for months to conceive DS1 - & I am sure that it just reduced his supply too much. DS2 was a 1 hit wonder first month trying & the last 2 BFP have been the result of 1 attempt at opk. For my hubby at least releasing E3d seems to have a much better result at keeping a supply for the "attempt".

[oxox2013]

Awe well glad you shed some light on this issue and it's cleared up. As for me, I won't be putting this obviously stupid away tactic into motion either way because I am staring at a positive pregnancy test right now.... I may be in shock after like 8 or 9 months trying!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oxox2013]

Awe well glad you shed some light on this issue and it's cleared up. As for me, I won't be putting this obviously stupid away tactic into motion either way because I am staring at a positive pregnancy test right now.... I may be in shock after like 8 or 9 months trying!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AshFind]

I don't know where I seen it at I did a bunch of random googling before I found this site. Maybe this is my issue my husband is a machine lol and we have 4 boys it just scares me that I'll miss it with one shot

[AshFind]

The theory I had read and I don't remember where was that xx sperm lives longer than xy so the frequent release would lower sperm count plus there would be more xx hanging out waiting for the egg. It was BD as much as possible then cut off when O came. But now that I type it that's scary also so easy to miss it ��

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, the trouble is, X and Y sperm have been definitively proven to live about the same amount of time. So this idea doesn't work.

Dr. Shettles looked through a microscope and saw big sperm and little sperm. He assumed the big were X and the little were Y. But he was wrong. What he saw were capacitated (ready to fertilize an egg) and uncapacitated (dormant) sperm. Capacitated sperm are fast and tiny and don't live very long. Uncapacitated sperm are dormant and slow and live for a long time, until they lose their protective cap and are ready to fertilize an egg. But it had nothing to do with X and Y, it's been completely debunked and proven 100% that idea is not true.

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't know where I seen it at I did a bunch of random googling before I found this site. Maybe this is my issue my husband is a machine lol and we have 4 boys it just scares me that I'll miss it with one shot

Then have your husband release 7-10 times, but DON"T BD!! You're just adding more and more sperm to the mix that way even under ideal circumstances where it actually works out without missing a day.

[atomic sagebrush]

Awe well glad you shed some light on this issue and it's cleared up. As for me, I won't be putting this obviously stupid away tactic into motion either way because I am staring at a positive pregnancy test right now.... I may be in shock after like 8 or 9 months trying!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh huge congrats ox!!

[atomic sagebrush]

RE "I can't get pregnant with one attempt" YES YOU CAN. Everyone says this but men make enough sperm in one shot to impregnant all of us here on this site in one batch, provided that they are not BD or releasing day after day after day.

[AshFind]

Thanks for the info lol everything I'm doing seems wrong haha maybe it's been a blessing in disguise that hubby has been gone all week and I'm in my fertile window

[AshFind]

So basically xx and xy and the same speed it just depends who makes it fastest but us trying to alter our diet can play a huge roll. Can you tell me how? Since I read somewhere here ph doesn't matter as much. I thought that was why we were changing our diets

[lovellcute]

So to try for a girl what should we do??? I'm so confused x


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AshFind]

Me to love lol so confusing!

[atomic sagebrush]

So basically xx and xy and the same speed it just depends who makes it fastest but us trying to alter our diet can play a huge roll. Can you tell me how? Since I read somewhere here ph doesn't matter as much. I thought that was why we were changing our diets

We don't know. That's what the reality is. All those people who claim pH or timing or "ions" or whatever sways - they were just guessing. They never knew any of that to be true or not, it was just their guess, and unfortunately then people took those guesses as proven fact and ran with it. But new evidence shows that while swaying IS true (or we wouldn't get good results with it) that all those old guesses are probably not true after all.

The newest science shows that it is probably a combination of lowered fertility (by fertility I mean the ability of sperm to make it to the egg) for you both as a couple, your overall maternal condition, and your blood sugar. Possibly hormones for you and sperm quality for your husband. But those things are just guesses too!

I think it's best for us to do what seems to be working for most people most of the time and not get too hung up on whys and wherefores, because then we end up with people doing all this stuff to follow a theory and overlooking things that are actually working!! So we have people taking tons of herbs for "lowering testosterone" or whatever but then they can't get pregnant doing that and end up giving up swaying totally, dropping everything and having another boy. I think it is best to just do the things that work for people, let go of the stuff that isn't (even if it supposedly is supported by a theory) and get pregnant quickly!

[atomic sagebrush]

So to try for a girl what should we do??? I'm so confused x


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The things that are really seeming to work are:

LE Diet plus fiber, coffee, alcohol, and dropping probiotic/Vit D (12 weeks or longer is best, at least 6-8 weeks) If you have PCOS or are over 38-40 or have more than 30 lbs to do you should do PCOS-type LE Diet instead

Cardio exercise 60 min a day 6-7 days a week (at least 4-5 days a week)

Clomid or Femara if you can get it

ONe attempt or every 4 days

Jogging and biking for DH and Smoking for DH

Things I'm less sure about but may still help:

OLE for DH and Soymilk for DH

The rest of the stuff all just seems to be either totally ineffective or lowers odds of conception so much for such low results that they're not even worth it.

Now this doesn't mean you can't use the tactics you want to, of course you can, but just that you should't rely on them in lieu of more effective tactics and additionally, you can start off doing whatever you want but drop the things that don't work FIRST instead of the things that do.

[AshFind]

Thank you for the response! I read you link on exercising and before swaying I was exercising (running) 3-4 days a week with my long run on saturdays being 12 miles. I know I had some pretty good muscle tone built up so I quit exercising all together. Do you think that's best for someone who had a lot of muscle tone to start with?

[AshFind]

And I have one more question. I'm taking Zyrtec but am curious why we want cm to dry up?

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you for the response! I read you link on exercising and before swaying I was exercising (running) 3-4 days a week with my long run on saturdays being 12 miles. I know I had some pretty good muscle tone built up so I quit exercising all together. Do you think that's best for someone who had a lot of muscle tone to start with?

Ok, what I have come to believe about exercise is this: Since we don't KNOW that muscle mass is even doing anything (that's just one of those guesses I was talking about) and we DO know based on results that exercise is a very effective tactic with many people having successful sways while doing it, I am now erring on the side of having you guys continue exercising if you're doing it already. I would have you pick it back up again.

[atomic sagebrush]

And I have one more question. I'm taking Zyrtec but am curious why we want cm to dry up?

It is one of the theories of swaying, that thicker CM may be more girl friendly. We don't know if it's because it makes it harder for sperm to get through or if it actually communicates something to the sperm that makes X "wake up" and Y stay dormant, or both, or neither. It's the theory. Now unfortunately Zyrtec has been neutral in our results, getting the same results as the overall success rates of the site and seemingly not adding anything, and plus it cuts odds of conception. So it's fine to start off using it but then it will probably be one of the things you'd drop sooner rather than later after a BFN or two. :)

[mummaofboys]

Hi, newbie here, and trying to sway pink. This site has been amazing and I have gotten so much information from it, so thank you so much Atomic. Since my cycle is irregular we have dtd e4d since af... following this sway method we dtd Sunday night, and then Monday I got a OPK+... (and I think I ovulated today, Tuesday), so my question is, if we follow on with dtd e4d meaning Thursday would that end up being twice in my fertile window?

[MiaMelb]

Hi, newbie here, and trying to sway pink. This site has been amazing and I have gotten so much information from it, so thank you so much Atomic. Since my cycle is irregular we have dtd e4d since af... following this sway method we dtd Sunday night, and then Monday I got a OPK+... (and I think I ovulated today, Tuesday), so my question is, if we follow on with dtd e4d meaning Thursday would that end up being twice in my fertile window?

To the best of my knowledge sperm will not last more than 4 days (I'm sure I've read an Atomic essay on this) so that by the time Thursday comes around there won't be any sperm that's left from bd on Sunday. The e4d rule is supposed to be a easy way of ensuring only ever 1 attempt.

[atomic sagebrush]

We know based on results that e4d has been working for people. so in all honesty it doesn't seem to truly matter, it's working regardless.

BUT to answer your question, then YES that is one attempt. The egg is either dead and gone, or fertilized by that point after O. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

To the best of my knowledge sperm will not last more than 4 days (I'm sure I've read an Atomic essay on this) so that by the time Thursday comes around there won't be any sperm that's left from bd on Sunday. The e4d rule is supposed to be a easy way of ensuring only ever 1 attempt.

:agree: and yes, let's say you didn't O yet. Let's say you O on Thursday. It's still one attempt really. Because the sperm from the Sun. attempt would be dead and gone and if there was any left, it would be capacitated and fertilize the egg before the Thurs. attempt could even capacitate. Going from Sun all the way to Fri is a very, very longshot - probably impossible.

[mummaofboys]

Thank you!! Really appreciate you getting back to me :)

[Mummatog]

I'm confused... Correct me if I'm wrong.. but in this post, atomic http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/5636-frequency-bd-pink-blue.html Don't you recommend frequent BD?

[MiaMelb]

I'm confused... Correct me if I'm wrong.. but in this post, atomic http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/5636-frequency-bd-pink-blue.html Don't you recommend frequent BD?

The best results for a girl sway are to BD just once during your fertile window.

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm confused... Correct me if I'm wrong.. but in this post, atomic http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/5636-frequency-bd-pink-blue.html Don't you recommend frequent BD?

Some people want to do EVERYTHING under the sun to sway. That is their choice. This is not "Swaying Atomic's Way or Else", it is a clearinghouse of sway tactics that people can use if they want to. So I have writeups of lots of different sway tactics and then people pick and choose what they want to use.

We started off thinking that frequency would be a huge swayer for people. But over time it became apparent that frequency patterns really did not do a whole lot and it was the number of attempts that swayed for reasons we can only guess at. People were doing frequency and adding attempts and ending up getting opposites doing that. So we have backed off of frequency and focused on one attempt and our results went way up and stayed up.

People want to do frequency + one attempt. Totally fine if you want to start off doing that. But over time you have to drop things to boost odds of conception, and I believe that based on our results it is most sensible to ditch frequency before adding attempts. It doesn't mean you can't try frequency if you'd like to, just that in our results it's not been a heavy lifter in terms of results. :)

[Elsie]

This is super helpful and the complete opposite of what I planned to do from previous reading! Thanks so much. What kind of success increase did you see with the 1 attempt?

So, if we DTD a few times before O, I should have my husband not finish inside? If there was one day in the cycle that was best for the one attempt, what would it be?

[ABC.2606]

We BD'd for 5 or 6 days straight through O with our last baby thinking it may sway pink... It didn't :) It did give us our 2nd sweet boy though!

[atomic sagebrush]

This is super helpful and the complete opposite of what I planned to do from previous reading! Thanks so much. What kind of success increase did you see with the 1 attempt?

So, if we DTD a few times before O, I should have my husband not finish inside? If there was one day in the cycle that was best for the one attempt, what would it be?

HUGE. We went from 58% the year we were having people do everything (like jellies, frequency, etc) and then add attempts to get pregnant - to an IMMEDIATE increase up to about 65% and then people are getting into the 70% and up with 12 weeks on diet and exercise on top of that.

[atomic sagebrush]

We BD'd for 5 or 6 days straight through O with our last baby thinking it may sway pink... It didn't :) It did give us our 2nd sweet boy though!

:agree: this is true for SOOO many of us!! People got BOYS this way! I just want to screech when I see people trying this for a girl!!

[4blue2pink]

i got my 4 boys by BD right through the whole month, not quite every single day but certainly most days.
all 3 of my girls came from 1 attempt, the first 2 unintentionally and the last one as part of a sway.

[atomic sagebrush]

I have had literally 10 more people JUST IN THE LAST 24 HOURS asking me about this!!

DO NOT DO BD THROUGH O EVER! Pink or Blue! explanation on first page

[atomic sagebrush]

This is super helpful and the complete opposite of what I planned to do from previous reading! Thanks so much. What kind of success increase did you see with the 1 attempt?

So, if we DTD a few times before O, I should have my husband not finish inside? If there was one day in the cycle that was best for the one attempt, what would it be?

Whoops I think I missed part of this, yes, you can do pullout or have him wear a condom.

Most of us do the one attempt at positive OPK just for the sake of convenience. But you don't have to. If you ahve a regular cycle and want to do a cutoff, feel free, just be sure it's only 2-3 days as any longer than that cuts odds of conception to practically nil, esp. with using other sway tactics

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm going to start posting links to threads that show firsthand the stuff that goes wrong when people try to do frequent BD. IT JUST DOESN"T WORK in a practical sense for the vast majority of people who try it.
Husbands cannot DTD and end up shooting dust! http://genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/58663-not-sure-if-i-should-use-rephresh.html

[honeybee]

I have had literally 10 more people JUST IN THE LAST 24 HOURS asking me about this!!

DO NOT DO BD THROUGH O EVER! Pink or Blue! explanation on first page


When you say Din not BD through O, do you mean do not BD the entire fertile week, or like don't BD everyday from AF-O? We usually have sex 2-3x in the fertile window. With the last two being the day of the positive opk, and the day after. I was swaying blue, and got my daughter that way. I'm trying to sway blue again, but that's pretty much always our frequency. Should we be doing something different?

[atomic sagebrush]

I mean do not start right after AF ends and/or don't start like a week before you expect O. Once that fertile window opens, the more the better, but what people are doing is starting BD too soon, so all the spermies die off, and then BD every day (or sometimes more than that) so by the time the egg drops, there are not many sperm left alive to fertilize the egg. All the "good batches" lived and died 7-10 days prior, and just not enough is coming out per batch to make it to the egg (it takes millions of sperm to fertilize one egg!)

What I like blue swayers to do is BD unprotected every 2-4 days and then once the fertile window opens, hit it with 2-3 additional attempts. You're doing great, but do continue with that BD every 2-4 days, or even a few days with every other day after the pos OPK attempts if he can, even after you think you Oed in case it's delayed for some reason.

[atomic sagebrush]

bump

[atomic sagebrush]

HUGE. We went from 58% the year we were having people do everything (like jellies, frequency, etc) and then add attempts to get pregnant - to an IMMEDIATE increase up to about 65% and then people are getting into the 70% and up with 12 weeks on diet and exercise on top of that.

As of this year, 2017, 77% success rate for pink. (some of these people did other frequency patterns like e4d) Our results have only gone up since we started emphasizing the one attempt.

[hopetoswaypink]

The stats this year are amazing!! What are the successful swayers doing that works so well??!!

[XXforhubby]

The stats this year are amazing!! What are the successful swayers doing that works so well??!!

In general, here is what has been getting the best results for pink (some of the successful sways this year had a mash up of different combinations of these):

LE diet 12+ weeks, cardio exercise 60+ min 4-6 days a week, one attempt via at first positive opk OR BDing E4D, fiber before fatty meals, coffee, alcohol, and some of us needed to take Clomid to conceive.

FX and GL to you!

[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]Baby Girl [emoji254]EDD 9/30/2017 [emoji178]

https://lmtm.lilypie.com/kIlmm5.png (https://lilypie.com)

[hopetoswaypink]

In general, here is what has been getting the best results for pink (some of the successful sways this year had a mash up of different combinations of these):

LE diet 12+ weeks, cardio exercise 60+ min 4-6 days a week, one attempt via at first positive opk OR BDing E4D, fiber before fatty meals, coffee, alcohol, and some of us needed to take Clomid to conceive.

FX and GL to you!

[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]Baby Girl [emoji254]EDD 9/30/2017 [emoji178]

https://lmtm.lilypie.com/kIlmm5.png (https://lilypie.com)

I have been doing all that for 11 weeks, just hoping it will work and at 41 I'm not too old! :fx:

[XXforhubby]

Well here is any of the pink baby dust I may have [emoji597][emoji92][emoji178][emoji254][emoji178][emoji94]!!


[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]Baby Girl [emoji254]EDD 9/30/2017 [emoji178]

https://lmtm.lilypie.com/kIlmm5.png (https://lilypie.com)

[MiaMelb]

What great stats so far this year, well done pink swayers.

[atomic sagebrush]

In general, here is what has been getting the best results for pink (some of the successful sways this year had a mash up of different combinations of these):

LE diet 12+ weeks, cardio exercise 60+ min 4-6 days a week, one attempt via at first positive opk OR BDing E4D, fiber before fatty meals, coffee, alcohol, and some of us needed to take Clomid to conceive.

FX and GL to you!

[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]Baby Girl [emoji254]EDD 9/30/2017 [emoji178]

https://lmtm.lilypie.com/kIlmm5.png (https://lilypie.com)

:agree: and please note - I think a BIG part of the key to our rising success rates is getting rid of the crap that ISN"T working. Up till this past year, most people were still doing a lot of the stuff that wasn't really doing any heavy lifting (such as timing, jellies, frequency, antihistamine, herbs) This ends up with people in situations where they either go on swaying and not getting pregnant so long that they panic and start doing lots of things to boost conception (and possibly swaying blue) or end up with their ovulation delayed or stopped because they lost too much weight on diet that they had to stop dieting and eat more fertility friendly foods just to get pregnant at all. Additionally, the kind of maniacal attention to detail it takes to manage all those things (that remember, aren't even helping!!) may also really undermine a pink sway and sway blue via the "control freak" factor.

[rjp123456]

I'm also so confused! I thought frequent release was a 'thing', or has that been debunked? I thought the frequent release swayed pink? Now to sway pink we will BD every 4 days from O and have one last attempt at positive OPK (2-3 day cut off)? Will that sway pink?

[Bridgetjones]

Hello,
So I have a pretty regular 28 day cycle sometimes 1 or 2 days earlier. We are trying for a girl when would be the best time to BD in my cycle? and from what i'm reading just once is best for a girl?
I already have two girls and now looking back I am pretty certain we only did BD once prior to O.

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm also so confused! I thought frequent release was a 'thing', or has that been debunked? I thought the frequent release swayed pink? Now to sway pink we will BD every 4 days from O and have one last attempt at positive OPK (2-3 day cut off)? Will that sway pink?

Our results have shown it doesn't seem to be working for us - but the thing is, that doesn't mean "debunked". It isn't "debunked" until an actual study has been done in random people who are not doing 50 other things to sway at the same time, with hopefully some science explaining why or why it does not work. Some people want to start off using it and that is fine, just should be among the first things to drop.

The thing that seems to matter appears to be the one attempt. We don't know why. It's just something our results seemed to show, and then once we all started doing it, our results went up.

I do not want anyone to start OFF using e4d plus one more attempt at positive OPK or cutoff (unless they're in a super huge hurry to get pregnant). I want people to start off doing one attempt at pos OPK (with or without frequency, totaly up to you) , then go to every 4 days, and only after that point try to combine the two.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hello,
So I have a pretty regular 28 day cycle sometimes 1 or 2 days earlier. We are trying for a girl when would be the best time to BD in my cycle? and from what i'm reading just once is best for a girl?
I already have two girls and now looking back I am pretty certain we only did BD once prior to O.

Yes just one BD in your fertile window (for most people this is O-3 thru O day, some prefer to stretch it an extra day and do only one BD at some point O-4 through O day). Outside of that you can have protected sex or in your safe time if you want to although you may want to avoid exposure to your hubby's semen as the hormones may sway slightly blue.

When to BD - most of us on here are not believers in timing as we got opposites that way. If you believe in it, then you'd want to have that one attempt on O-2 or O-3. If you don't believe in it, O-1 (or day of positive OPK) has best odds of conception with the one attempt and swaying.

[rjp123456]

If we aimed for one attempt in the fertile window, at 0-2 or positive OPK, is that getting the best results? What do we do from AF to that point? BD protected every 4 days or abstain? Sorry for the questions, I feel so silly for not understanding straight away. I suppose if it was easy we wouldn't need you!

[atomic sagebrush]

Before I launch into this explanation what you have to understand is that different groups of people use various sway tactics so I cannot totally compare them to each other.

One attempt, we know for a fact, has gotten better results than 2 or 3 attempts. For several years, we were getting 75% with one attempt, 65% with 2, and 45% with three. That I can say for sure even though that has been kind of swallowed up with more and more people doing one attempt and is no longer as glaringly obvious as it was for a while there. I can state this as a fact because we got disappointing results prior to when I realized it was working, and great results after that. It was dramatic, going from 58% to 70% and up and there it has stayed for 4 years straight.

What I cannot do is compare one attempt to e4d. That I cannot say which one is best because 2 different groups use them. People who get pg using one attempt tend to be more fertile, get pregnant more quickly (possibly with less time on diet) and may be more set for blue. Not only is e4d a much smaller sample size, but it is also done by people who have been TTC for longer, may have lower fertility or lower sperm health, possilby longer on diet, etc. I don't know which is better between the two but since I have a good feel for the one attempt being successful, I have people start off with that.

Frequency, you have to think of as being totally separate from the one attempt. People do one attempt with abstain, with FR, with regular release, or even with just ahving their hubby do whatever they want to do. We don't know which, if any of those things is better. BEcause like as I said, we aren't doing a study here. We don't know what would have happened if, for example, 1000 randomly people did abstain and 1000 did FR and 1000 did reg. release. We just don't know. All we know is that both abstain and FR got lousy results, quite a bit lower than one attempt. Plus, abstain and FR really cut odds of conception with that one attempt which can sometimes make people get into a panic where they actually will give up on things that sway (like diet and one attempt) in a mad rush to get pregnant faster. So they have definite downsides that should be taken into consideration. And husbands HATE doing them.

So do whatever YOU want to do, but take into account that neither abstain nor FR has seemed to help, and they do have downsides. You very well may want to start off having hubby just do regular release every 2-4 days (and he can do this on his own or with you, with a condom) while keeping one attempt. That is fine to do. Others may really feel they need to at leaast try a month with abstain or FR. That is ok too. The important thing is that one attempt!

[atomic sagebrush]

^^^ Oh and I can also say that it does not matter what DAY you have your attempt on. Clever scientists have studied timing a lot and found that the whole idea doesn't work. 50-50 b and g conceived on every cycle day. So what I want you guys to do is aim at having your attempt at a point in time that is good chances of conception. O-1 and O-2 are best odds of conception, and since swaying can sometimes lower sperm health and dry up CM, I think we see better odds of conception with swaying, on O-1 (since sperm may not live as long with fewer of them, and dried up CM, I mean). O Day is actually NOT a good day to TTC because the odds of conception are low.

Long story short (too late!) if you MUST do timing, O-2 will be a good shot of conception with one attempt. O-3 is possible but i would not count on it since it will be much lower odds of conception. If you can live without timing, O-1 is a good day to attempt because with swaying, it's very likely best chance of conception with one attempt. Most of us will just do our one attempt at positive OPK not because it sways, but because it is an easy way of timing that one attempt at a point in time that is a good chance of conceiving.

[maximbella]

Atomic, so you are seeing the exact same same success rate for pink on one attempt on 0, 0-1, and 0-2? The day makes no difference?


https://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/24dd4d

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atomic sagebrush]

Atomic, so you are seeing the exact same same success rate for pink on one attempt on 0, 0-1, and 0-2? The day makes no difference?


https://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/24dd4d

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It doesn't matter what I have seen or anyone on any sway site has seen, scientists have actually studied it and shown definitively 50-50 b and g conceived on every day of the cycle.

Our statistics and observations are just this side of crap when it comes to timing, because people DO NOT KNOW when they ovulated. Even highly trained experts using cutting edge technology could not pin down their day of ovulation any better than 1 out or 3 times using temping/charting, and 2/3 times using charting + Bilings method. We have no way to know for sure if people on this site or others have their O day right.

The only thing that matters when it comes to timing is the real live studies where scientists showed, when day of O was proven with blood tests, timing did not sway. And this has been as proven as something can be proven in science.

[atomic sagebrush]

Here is yet another of the threads where someone tried this STUPID METHOD and it did not work out. Ttc soon - is there anything to be done anymore? (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/64120-ttc-soon-there-anything-done-anymore.html)

In the real world, this does not work out for many people. We are living in the real world and need to operate in real world parameters instead of fantasyland where everything goes according to plan.

PLEASE, PLEASE do not even try BD through O or to a cutoff, for ANYONE swaying pink or blue. You are undermining your sway hugely by trying this and even if you have seen other people seemingly do it, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that it will not work for you. It is also ENTIRELY in the realm of possibility that they are fudging or misremembering what actually occurred - they may have skipped days and forgot or stopped many days before they even ovulated and only the last BD even counted!! (aka one attempt in the fertile window)

And just by trying it, you have then ruined your sway for any other method that month and will often have to skip the month. It does not help your sway and in fact harms it in several ways (refer back to my explanation on the first page) whether you are swaying pink or blue!! Do not BD daily through O or to a cutoff for any swayer!

[mamaloveskai]

Well, the trouble is, X and Y sperm have been definitively proven to live about the same amount of time. So this idea doesn't work.

Dr. Shettles looked through a microscope and saw big sperm and little sperm. He assumed the big were X and the little were Y. But he was wrong. What he saw were capacitated (ready to fertilize an egg) and uncapacitated (dormant) sperm. Capacitated sperm are fast and tiny and don't live very long. Uncapacitated sperm are dormant and slow and live for a long time, until they lose their protective cap and are ready to fertilize an egg. But it had nothing to do with X and Y, it's been completely debunked and proven 100% that idea is not true.

Could you show me the link where dr. Shettles Method is %100 proven not true. I can’t find it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atomic sagebrush]

https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

And I'm not sure I put this in that particular essay but last year they did a study where someone went back through all the old timing studies using modern knowhow and even using Shettles and others' own data, proved that the days when the study subjects had thought they ovulated, they hadn't. And when their errors were corrected for, even using Shettles and other old data, timing did not sway. All based on a bunch of mistakes.

Science can rarely debunk anything 100% but Shettles is as debunked as it is possible to ever debunk anything in science. We know he was wrong, we know why he was wrong, and using his own data we have proven the conclusions of his studies are wrong.

I got 3 of my 4 boys with Shettles girl timing (other boy was a sneak attack, I don't know when I got him!) and gave all that up and got my girl with Shettles blue timing.

[AHAM23]

Sorry I’m new here! By one attempt was does this mean exactly? Does hubby release any during af-o before the one attempt?

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi and welcome! One attempt means just one attempt, unprotected, in the fertile window of O-3/4 through O Day (some people worry about O-4 counting as an attempt, others don't. I'm undecided) You only have sex ONE time and not many times.

You can then add ON something like frequent (daily) release in addition to the one attempt, but you don't have to. The one attempt is the key, nothing else has really worked, including the FR.

A couple essays that you may find helpful: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/2728-abstain-frequent-release-cutoff-o-12-one-attempt.html?2728-abstaining-frequent-release-and-mixing-cutoff-with-O-12=

https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/5636-frequency-bd-pink-blue.html?5636-frequency-of-BD-for-pink-and-blue=

[AHAM23]

Did you BD at all after AF for your girls or did your husband release any during that time?

[atomic sagebrush]

who me?? I only have one girl and my husband and I did e4d without really intending to (I hadn't invented that yet, LOL)

So BD about every 4 days after AF thru O Day.

[Jessirberger]

:agree: and please note - I think a BIG part of the key to our rising success rates is getting rid of the crap that ISN"T working. Up till this past year, most people were still doing a lot of the stuff that wasn't really doing any heavy lifting (such as timing, jellies, frequency, antihistamine, herbs) This ends up with people in situations where they either go on swaying and not getting pregnant so long that they panic and start doing lots of things to boost conception (and possibly swaying blue) or end up with their ovulation delayed or stopped because they lost too much weight on diet that they had to stop dieting and eat more fertility friendly foods just to get pregnant at all. Additionally, the kind of maniacal attention to detail it takes to manage all those things (that remember, aren't even helping!!) may also really undermine a pink sway and sway blue via the "control freak" factor.I feel a bit dumb here... So the 1 attempt, I get that's 1x unprotected sex on O-1 preferably. But are we celibate AF-O? Does frequency of DH's release matter (i.e. every 3 days vs 10 days, not a FR pattern) e4d may be 1 attempt for women's fertile period, but how is it affecting sperm production?

I get why you can't really compare 1 attempt to e4d statistically, but man that's my burning question!

And thank you for answering so many of my questions on various threads- I'm reading and learning a lot!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[atomic sagebrush]

I understand it's everyone's burning question, but till I strike it rich and can fund studies we can't compare the two. We'd need to do a study in people doing nothing else to sway to find out if either of them really alters the gender ratio, and if so by roughly how much. :) Till then my recommendation stands to start off at one attempt for most people and go to e4d, but as we've talked about when you've got a limited time to TTC it makes sense to start off at e4d, too.

Timing, frequency (number of times hubs releases) and number of attempts are all three different methods. You can use them together or alone. I have a good indepth explanation of all that here in this thread https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/2728-abstain-frequent-release-cutoff-o-12-one-attempt.html?2728-abstaining-frequent-release-and-mixing-cutoff-with-O-12=

having hubby release every 4 days is, on paper, said to raise sperm health, and theoretically sway blue. But I PrOMISE it is no magic bullet at all and lots and lots of people get girls both with regular release + one attempt and e4d method (or I'd not recommend it, of course) And indeed, even lots of blue swayers still get pink opposites with regular release.

While I don't yet have the data to prove it, I have a strong suspicion that frequency patterns do little for pink OR blue. I'm just not seeing how, if abstain and FR don't work, how regular release would strongly sway blue, either. I have a pretty good vibe now that if any frequency works it gets swallowed up by the things that are much more effective. If they were doing anything we'd be seeing it make huge differences now, and frequency just doesn't seem to be making huge differences.

[Abygailjo3]

As of this year, 2017, 77% success rate for pink. (some of these people did other frequency patterns like e4d) Our results have only gone up since we started emphasizing the one attempt.

Is this one attempt the day after O?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PadrePioidevotemyfirstson]

Sorry what does e4d mean?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry what does e4d mean?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Having unprotected sex every 4 days without any additional attempts.

It is something we do for pink swayers, whereas blue swayers would always have additional attempts from pos OPK through O day

[atomic sagebrush]

Is this one attempt the day after O?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll have to go back and look up what I was saying in context as that was 2 years ago.

No one should attempt the day after ovulation. There has never been ANY confirmed pregnancy the day after ovulation. Sex the day after ovulation will yield a BFN

[atomic sagebrush]

As of this year, 2017, 77% success rate for pink. (some of these people did other frequency patterns like e4d) Our results have only gone up since we started emphasizing the one attempt.


Just to put that in context, we ended up with 71% overall for 2017 (we had some opposites that year after I posted that) and 68% in 2018

Our overall success rates of the site are at 69% with 540 people reporting

This is in comparison to 58% when we had more than one attempt.

do one attempt! at least to start with

[atomic sagebrush]

I'll have to go back and look up what I was saying in context as that was 2 years ago.

No one should attempt the day after ovulation. There has never been ANY confirmed pregnancy the day after ovulation. Sex the day after ovulation will yield a BFN

It is doing just one attempt regardless of timing. No matter what day you BD in the fertile window, having one attempt is much more successful than doing other sway tactics and adding attempts.

[Ff12345]

Hi Atomic,

I understand the 1 attempt. But when you say that if DH releases every day he will eventually be ‘shooting dust’, does that mean that he shouldn’t do FR and then 1 attempt? We were planning for him to release everyday by himself for 7 days prior to our 1 attempt! Confused now!

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi Atomic,

I understand the 1 attempt. But when you say that if DH releases every day he will eventually be ‘shooting dust’, does that mean that he shouldn’t do FR and then 1 attempt? We were planning for him to release everyday by himself for 7 days prior to our 1 attempt! Confused now!

Some of the advice in this thread is for blue swayers who want absolute max sperm count. Daily release does deplete sperm numbers. Many men can shake this off and still get a woman pregnant anyway, but it does lower odds of conception considerably. I answered more about this in light of your personal situation in your Custom Coaching Forum.

[Naj90]

Then have your husband release 7-10 times, but DON"T BD!! You're just adding more and more sperm to the mix that way even under ideal circumstances where it actually works out without missing a day.

I just had a question about this. Is it also okay to do less than 7 times? Just to be sure there will enough sperm count with the one attempt?

[atomic sagebrush]

I just had a question about this. Is it also okay to do less than 7 times? Just to be sure there will enough sperm count with the one attempt?

Yes, it's certainly ok to do that, but it doesn't count as doing the frequent release. That is fine since the frequent release doesn't work, and the one attempt does. I would LOVE to be able to convince everyone to drop abstain and FR and focus only on the one attempt since FR has not worked and cuts odds of conception with one attempt.