Swaying Blue Nov/Dec

[TanyaW]

Hi everyone. I currently have two beautiful daughters who are 5 & 3. We agreed we were happy with 2, and didn't think twice. Until recently. My husband keeps expressing strong want for a son. It doesn't help that his brother just had a little boy. I don't mind having a 3rd child, but I will admit 3 daughters scares me a little lol. We both would really love a boy, so we are going to try. I am so nervous. I already eat very healthy, however I will probably need to increase my calorie intake and red meat.
I do a lot of cardio, right now I'm training for a half marathon in November. Hence, hence why we are not trying until after that, plus we are doing it in Disney World!
Any advice as I am so nervous. I know my husband would be ok, and absolutely love a third girl. However, I literally feel giddy thinking of his face if we had a boy!

[TanyaW]

So I am looking into some insight:
I plan on doing the HE diet. I don't think this will be hard for me, my body might be confused although. So currently I eat about 1200 calories a day because my metabolism is slow. How much should I do with the HE? Is 2000 enough?
Second, will the intense cardio hurt my sway? I don't want to back off of the cardio too much because of running the marathon, any input would be great

[Throwaway_panther]

You're training for a marathon on 1200kcal? Your metabolism only seems slow then because your body is probably one of the rare cases of starvation mode! That, and you've probably got minimal lean body mass, which helps fuel metabolism as well.

You should be eating 2000kcal like... yesterday, haha.

ETA: I don't mean to sound like I'm laughing at you btw! I'm just really concerned for you, and your goals, with where you're at. If this was one of my normal fitness forums, I'd throw a lot of jargon at you. But in terms of swaying, DEFINITELY be eating more regardless of cardio, then definitely add in more if you're still doing tons. There's a fine balance between running and weights I know (I used to be a sprinter, and we have even more wiggle room there than you distance runners), but you definitely would benefit from them in HE.

[TanyaW]

I know I take in low calories, but my metabolism is really slow. I've tried all different calorie intakes, ranging from 2000-1200. Only ever when I went to 1200 did I start to see a difference in my weight. I am currently trying to lose some of the weight I gained over winter. I know I said I'm training a marathon, but currently I'm only running 3 miles/5x a week. I'll increase as I get closer, I do plan to obviously increase my calories when I'm trying, and eat a healthy amount during pregnancy. But literally my body won't respond. I eat super healthy, only lean meats, nuts, fruits and veggies. I am pretty low carb, hence why I want to lose weight before ttc because my body easily gains weight.

[MiaMelb]

Hey fellow blue swayer. We also have 2 DDs with the same age gap, however, I'm probably the one twisting DPs arm to trying for the boy.
I'm not a fitness expert and the exercise side of swaying seems a little finicky at times so these are just my opinion. I definitely think waiting til after the marathon to sway is a good idea. I was doing 6-7 hrs of cardio with DD1 and I definitely think the high cardio contribured. My aim would be to engage in some more tradition weights exercises for swaying. Anacdotally the calories do seem low and will need to be higher for the HE diet. It's hard though as Atomic recommends noy putting on too much weight. GL.

[TanyaW]

Hey thanks for your input. I honestly can't remember how I ate with my daughters, but my first one I was super unhealthy. My second I was getting better, but still not like I eat now. I'm eating low calories to lose weight so I can feel okay to gain weight for the HE diet. I'm hoping to incooperate weight lifting as I get closer to ttc. I appreciate your input I'm quite nervous

[Throwaway_panther]

I know I take in low calories, but my metabolism is really slow. I've tried all different calorie intakes, ranging from 2000-1200. Only ever when I went to 1200 did I start to see a difference in my weight. I am currently trying to lose some of the weight I gained over winter. I know I said I'm training a marathon, but currently I'm only running 3 miles/5x a week. I'll increase as I get closer, I do plan to obviously increase my calories when I'm trying, and eat a healthy amount during pregnancy. But literally my body won't respond. I eat super healthy, only lean meats, nuts, fruits and veggies. I am pretty low carb, hence why I want to lose weight before ttc because my body easily gains weight.

So I understand your mindset, so I might tangent from swaying convo for a second here. How tall are you?

There's no such thing, really, as slow or fast metabolisms. People always think these things, but outside of certain hormonal conditions, everyone's metabolism works at the same rate (and I'm one of those anomalies, too, since I don't have a thyroid at all). Yes, even men.

What differs among us are a variety of factors that alter our body needs. Our TDEEs and NEATs are different: the former (total daily energy expenditure) is how many calories total we need to function/maintain our weight, the latter is all of the small burns that go into the TDEE (literally if someone fidgets more type stuff is what makes the people who swear they "can eat whatever they want without exercise" actually be able to eat more -- that, and they usually overestimate their calories;).) Additional factors that influence these? Height. Age. Exercise. This is also where sex comes into play, where men get more leeway.

And to top it all off? Muscle, or lean body mass. It takes calories to build, and most especially, maintain LBM.

So bringing it back to you: 1200 is too low. Period. Unless you are severely morbidly obese where severe, rapid weight loss is necessary to live, or you're a very short post-menopausal woman, 1200 is too low. Running 15+ miles a week, particularly if you're doing back to back days with no recovery, is a LOT of exercise. With those low calories, you're hemorrhaging away muscle, which is what's going to make it seem like you have a "slow metabolism."

So in terms of HE -- sure, wait until after your marathon. But the calories needed with no muscle after a long term low calorie diet is where you'll find yourself not only gaining more weight than you want on it, but specifically fat. And gaining too much weight sways pink.

In terms of overall health -- you're shooting yourself in the foot. Truly. You have to be patient with calorie changes, too -- so gradually upping to 2000 now (1400 next week, 1500 week after that, and so on).

It can take up to SIX-EIGHT weeks for your body to get to a "comfortable spot" -- there's a reason swaying isn't instant, and that can be applied to the scale in general. 1-5 pounds of water weight (specifically glycogen) in fluctuations is normal even from day to day, and chronic low calorie/high cardio people see the biggest temporary scale jumps since they've been depleting glycogen constantly -- but it's not true fat gain, it's just water. I'd even stay off the scale period for the first two months of this to not psych yourself out.

I'm sorry I talked so much here, but I see you say, "I'm eating low calories to lose weight so I can feel okay to gain weight for the HE diet," and I hear tires screeching in my brain. I've been in your place, relapsed into my ED, and got a girl (though granted I didn't yet know about swaying). I was an insane cardio machine eating on average 800kcal a day because I thought, "Well, I'm an anomaly with my thyroid issues" and "I have to lose weight before I gain with pregnancy!"

Atomic's got a sticky somewhere on here about weight, I'll try to find it if she doesn't make it in here first, but I think it would be good for you to read it.

Overall, gradually eating more now -- especially with adequate protein -- will help ALL of your goals: marathon running, getting your TDEE to a heathier spot, and eventually swaying for a boy.

[TanyaW]

Thank you for your honesty. I am very neurotic about my weight. I am 5'8, weigh roughly 185. So I am technically overweight. I try to be positive because 2 years ago I was over 300lbs. I have tried eating more and have always gained. I have slight hypothyroidism, but it is very slight. If eating more is needed I will do it. I didn't think that 1200 was that low, I am curious as to what atomic thinks. I was going to start uping my intake around July. If it needs to be sooner I am willing.
I have tried many diff intakes in 3 month increments. At one point I was eating around 1800 a day, running 5x a week and nothing after 3 months. I will give it another go being that I am a much healthier weight. I truly am trying to get healthy, not so much of losing weight. Over Christmas, I worked full time to cover maternity and I stopped exercising and kind of ate bad and easily gained 20lbs. I just wanted to get back to 165 before giving it a go. I really appreciate your help.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi and welcome Tanya!

Yes, atomic agrees that 1200 is too low. 1200 is the absolute barest minimum I allow for PINK swayers! Anyone training for an athletic event should not be eating that little for all the reasons Panther has already gone over. Anyone swaying blue should never be eating that little either.

BUT. I understand that once you've lost a lot of weight the idea of regaining that is terrifying.

What I'd start off with, while you're training, is upping your cal intake GRADUALLY. Don't go right to 2000. You have the time to spare, so up to 1500 for now, let your body adjust for a few weeks, then to 1800 and see what happens. Do this over the course of the next several months. AT the same time I want you to start lifting weights (if you can only do this on your arms due to your running, that is ok too. For right now I don't want you to go nuts overtraining with weights, 3 days a week arms only or arms and abs is fine.) So while you may gain some weight, it should be mostly muscle. Muscle is good. Muscle helps you burn up the extra calories and will allow you to eat more (and get more nutrients for your blue sway!)

I agree with Panther that you need more calories. But I also do understand you're afraid of gaining. We need to do this smarter so you end up getting what you want (because I KNOW if you feel you're gaining too fast, you'll probably just cut back again!) Go up to 1500 right now. Start the weights. See what happens. You are probably going to be very surprised that you don't gain or if you do, it's only a very small amount (and it looks good on you!)

Cardio does sway pink but you have the time to spare. We will get this sorted out over time and please don't panic, you don't need to go from 0 to 60 here, we have the time to make slow and gradual changes and your body will adjust.

[atomic sagebrush]

So you're still trying to lose an additional 20 lbs before swaying? That, I don't think we can have you do for your sway. Even if you held steady I would feel much better. I do not, x a million, want you to lose 20 lbs and then gain 40 on HE Diet. That is a sway killer. I would so, so much rather you hold steady at 185 while adding in weights.

Another easy thing you can change right here today is adding in a multivitamin or prenatal - are you taking anything like that?

[TanyaW]

Yes I take a prenatal every day. I do actually do weights that incorporate legs and arms 2-3x a week. I've been working out pretty regularly for 2 years so I have a good build up, but my muscle is the most lacking. I'm afraid to not lose the 20 because it was so unhealthy how fast I gained it. I can go up in calories slowly starting now that's no problem. I will focus more on eating more calories, while maintaining my cardio and weights, than losing weight. But if I lose while doing more calories is that bad?

[atomic sagebrush]

Unfortunately that's one of those crystal ball questions I don't have the answer to. I don't recommend losing weight before TTC a boy, and I certainly don't recommend losing 20 lbs. It is up to you, though. We have had some pink swayers who lost that much and did get boy opposites anyway, but it's not something I can sign off on as I do not think it's going to be your best shot at a boy, if that makes sense.

[TanyaW]

Ok so I'm confused. Doesn't the blue sway call for exercise and high calories. If that incidentally causes weight lost, I think only cause I'm training for a marathon, then that's bad? Ugh I really wanted to start as soon as the marathon was over. I did eat a lot more today and it was rough lol. Mainly because it took so long to train myself not to constantly snack, but I tried to make sure it was all natural healthy options. I'm trying to decide about purchasing I think it might be necessary with all the questions flying through my head. Thanks for getting back, I think for right now I need to continue my cardio but I'll work on getting my calories up and incorporating more weights.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, it calls for exercise and high calories. But we have NEVER once had any data or evidence that shows that the best way to do this is to lose a bunch of weight and gain it back again (and in fact some anectodal evidence that indicates that is NOT the best way to go about it.)

We also have a pretty big collection of evidence that intense cardio may sway pink. It is absolutely fine and dandy to exercise cardio 3 or even 4 days a week, but you CANNOT be eating 1200 cals a day! Again, that is the barest minimum I allow pink swayers to eat.

I am trying to optimize your chances of getting a boy. Doing what you're doing is not going to IMO be your best chance and so I would like to see you try to gradually eat more. I do not mean that you should now spin 180 degrees and stuff yourself, but that over the course of time you need to start boosting that # of calories up.

[TanyaW]

I agree! I mean if I gradually up my calories and still lose weight (because I'm hitting cardio 5 days a week) is that bad. I'm not going to lie my plan was to try to lose fast and then gradually increase. But I don't mind doing it the way you think I should. Like I said my main goal in life is healthy. I know 1200 is low to some people, it's just my body has always gained on more.
My question, do you think cardio 5x a week will hurt me if I gradually up to 2000 calories? I don't want to cut below that, although the last two days I've only done 2 miles, with longer weight training and up'd my calories. I don't want to put off ttc too long, but I don't want to die running this marathon either lol. Just curious on your opinion I'll have to make a decision obviously.
Btw I hope you didn't feel like my last post was negative, just trying to wrap my head around it.

[atomic sagebrush]

1200 is low to ALL people LOL. :)

5x a week cardio (as long as it's 45 min or less) is fine on blue sway.

Then, you can add in weights TO that, but try to do them at a different time of day and eating at least one meal between. Again, no more than 45 min on that, 5 days a week max.

If you are gradually upping cals while doing this, and NOT losing weight (at least not much) you will be better off than doing what you're doing. Even if you gain a small amount you will be better off. I don't have a crystal ball to know if this is enough or if you'll get a boy doing this or not, but I do know you will have a better chance than eating 1200 cals a day and doing tons of cardio.

[TanyaW]

Yeah I do 5x a week but I mostly do 3 miles, which only takes me 27 mins, so it should be easy to stay under 45 min, I only do 10 miles+ a couple times a month to be sure I can still handle it.. I've been trying to do weights mid morning and running at night.
I also plan on taking coq10, wheatgrass and maybe a vit D supp but not until aug. I'm also a big coffee drinker, I plan to slowly come down to only 1 cup and switch to creamer from almond milk. If I up my calories, does that seem like a decent sway or am I not doing enough?

[Throwaway_panther]

Yes, it calls for exercise and high calories. But we have NEVER once had any data or evidence that shows that the best way to do this is to lose a bunch of weight and gain it back again (and in fact some anectodal evidence that indicates that is NOT the best way to go about it.)


I have a feeling it might have to do with the muscle issue. The "90% of people regain all of their weight and more" statistic on weight loss in the west can be attributed to the frequency of fad/crash dieting. People shed their muscle along with the fat because they lost so fast/cut too many calories and protein, etc., and fat is SO much easier to gain and attain than muscle that when they resume "normal" eating, they're further in the hole than before.

Tanya, like atomic said -- go at this gradually. I think you probably COULD still train and go for the marathon and not hinder a blue sway completely IF you got about it the right way. I know plenty of distance runners, especially marathon addicts, who got boys, but they were also fueling themselves properly.

You'll see the "cults" of people who swear 1200 is enough, or ok. It's not :( It kills me to see (mostly) women trap themselves in a cycle that so severely impacts health and quality of life.

So just to reiterate -- if you're in this for health, too, gradually up the calories from 1200 onward. Maybe don't even add in all the different HE steps from the get go -- no need to stuff yourself from day one. Maybe a snack a day. 100 calories more a day every week or so. Etc.

But yeah, 'losing fast so then I can gain' IS about as unhealthy as you can get!! It's not good for your body composition, it's not good for your hormones, it's not good for an eventual boy sway, it's not even good for your gall bladder -- it's why pregnant women have a higher incidence of issues with it, pre and postpartum!

[Throwaway_panther]

Yes, it calls for exercise and high calories. But we have NEVER once had any data or evidence that shows that the best way to do this is to lose a bunch of weight and gain it back again (and in fact some anectodal evidence that indicates that is NOT the best way to go about it.)


I have a feeling it might have to do with the muscle issue. The "90% of people regain all of their weight and more" statistic on weight loss in the west can be attributed to the frequency of fad/crash dieting. People shed their muscle along with the fat because they lost so fast/cut too many calories and protein, etc., and fat is SO much easier to gain and attain than muscle that when they resume "normal" eating, they're further in the hole than before.

Tanya, like atomic said -- go at this gradually. I think you probably COULD still train and go for the marathon and not hinder a blue sway completely IF you got about it the right way. I know plenty of distance runners, especially marathon addicts, who got boys, but they were also fueling themselves properly.

You'll see the "cults" of people who swear 1200 is enough, or ok. It's not :( It kills me to see (mostly) women trap themselves in a cycle that so severely impacts health and quality of life.

So just to reiterate -- if you're in this for health, too, gradually up the calories from 1200 onward. Maybe don't even add in all the different HE steps from the get go -- no need to stuff yourself from day one. Maybe a snack a day. 100 calories more a day every week or so. Etc.

But yeah, 'losing fast so then I can gain' IS about as unhealthy as you can get!! It's not good for your body composition, it's not good for your hormones, it's not good for an eventual boy sway, it's not even good for your gall bladder -- it's why pregnant women have a higher incidence of issues with it, pre and postpartum!

[atomic sagebrush]

Why not until August on the supps?? Start those bad boys now, especially the Vit. D.

Almond milk, I feel like we've been seeing quite a few opposites with people drinking that in high amounts.

If only running that 30 min. or so I think you're golden on that. But do up cals anyway.

Tea may be bluer than coffee so I'd switcheroo those. I got my 4 boys drinking lots of tea, and then my girl with coffee.

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: with Panther - another thing I did when I got my girl is that my 4th boy was a failed sway, I did lose quite a bit of weight before conceiving him but I was still pretty buff. Then, I gained a ton of weight when I was pregnant with him, and lost it all again, and conceived a girl.. So it was only after I lost, gained, and lost again that I got a girl.

[TanyaW]

Ok I wasn't sure about supplements, especially vitamin D only because in the summer months I live outside, but I will start those asap. As for tea, I do have a cup of green tea every single day. I have coffee in the morning and tea in the afternoon. I only use 2 tbsp of almond milk, but my husband uses half and half and I can easily switch to that. Is one cup ok to continue w/ coffee or should I try to come off it all together? I did it for both my girls so I know i can, I just enjoy it a lot. One last question, I know you said lay off artificial sweeteners, how do you feel about stevia? Organic, if that matters lol
Eating more is going ok, I eat 3 meals and 3 snacks everyday. Just been uping my portions a little bit, and also uped my weight lifting. How long do you recommend lifting weights if I'm doing it 4-5 days a week, with abs added in?

[atomic sagebrush]

2 T of almond milk will not hurt anything but I personally think the half and half is better. Up to you.

RE coffee - while I do think 1 cup is ok, we have been getting great results for pink with coffee. Personally I'd probably switcheroo them but it's totally up to you.

Stevia: It's an unknown. I know on the other site they say that it sways blue, but I've not seen any convincing evidence that indicates this and so I would probably not load up on the stuff.