Where did the monster come from?

[ChezIBY]

Hey all,

Thought I would tentatively open a new thread following a discussion on hopper’s thread ‘Green-eyed monster’ here on the ‘Gender Desire’ forum, because very interesting issues had been raised there that (in my opinion, moderators can decide otherwise of course) merit further attention.

Question for anyone who has thought about it and feels comfortable with sharing their findings: where does your GD come from? (The ‘D’ here can stand for both ‘desire’ and ‘disappointment’.) Had you thought about it?

I love the idea of swaying, I find it amazing that the people behind this website have put/keep putting so much effort and consistent work and research into it (not to mention supporting their community). But I do also wonder where this wish comes from, whether it is the same or not for different women/families depending on where it comes from and whether we can do something about it combined with swaying to ultimately ‘get better’ regardless of the final ‘outcome’.

I tried going over my own thoughts/feelings on the subject more or less, and here is what I established (formal resume of the results, without going into the long and winding analysis): it’s not just GD in my case, it’s my character in general. I have this trait, that I have had since I am a kid and that got more pronounced when I was a teen, to set myself impossible (or very very near impossible) standards, yanking some idea out of the sky (e.g. ‘I must have a perfectly gender-balanced family’) and then pushing myself to get there, ultimately beating myself up about it if I do not (so the more impossible the goal, the better, cause there is more chance I will never reach it and can keep beating myself up about it ;) )

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not like I enjoy this :) But I think it is not just about the goals themselves, because I have noticed this pattern – soon as I achieve one of those impossibilities (say, closing the school year with perfect grades as a child) I can never ‘relax’, or just for a couple of days, and then I immediately find some new goal to obsess about.

Thus, if Atomic and team handed me a box of pills on a silver platter this same day, and I had only to pop a pill in my mouth each time I wanted to have a baby and the pill would magically give me a baby of my current DG, 100% guaranteed, I think I’d be thrilled… for a week. And then I’d probably tell myself that I have to teach all my kids to speak five languages and play three different musical instruments by the age of two or something like that, and feel like a failure for not achieving THAT goal next.

I’ll try and dig a little deeper, hope I can work on this in such a way that will enable me to be in excellent shape for when I do sway, give it my best go and enjoy the result whatever happens.

Very curious about what everyone else thinks about their own GD; persuaded that each woman has her own story.

Ta!

[Artisam]

I can very much relate to this, and it's very easy to get caught up in achieving things that sometimes you lose sight of the end goal (for me anyway!).
My own reasons for swaying are slightly different, I think to create a kind of mother-daughter relationship I consciously feel I missed out on. My own mother was abandoned by her mother at a young age and taken into care. They reconciled years later however I always felt, as did my sister, that we've never had a 'mumsy' mum, and I know we've both envied friends who have very close relationships with their mothers. Some parts of our childhood were difficult, and I know we often feel we look after our mother, as we would a child.
It perhaps sounds selfish, and I know how blessed we are to have a son already. And I know if we have another son that we will cherish him too.
It's difficult to put into words, and other than this site, I know it's not something many of us share with others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ChezIBY]

It doesn't sound selfish!! It sounds so beautiful! It totally makes sense. That's a really great dream you have, about having a real bond with your own little girl. I really hope your dream comes true, and all the best to your great DS and DH in the meantime :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok there are two questions here:

First of all where does GD come from?? This I've spent much thought on and I truly believe it's NATURAL. It is born into us and just because most people have one of each, they don't feel it. They may be a little disappointed if they had a preference at the start but if they end up getting their boy or girl in the end they'd forget that. I rem. wanting a boy very badly with my first, and I got him. It doesn't feel like a big thing in my mind now, but I suspect that if I had then gone on to get 3 more girls after that I would still look back at that first time and think "oh how awful that was" but because I did get my boy, it just fades away in my emotions.

I have seen people go over and over their lives looking for THE reason. Some people will say "I had bad experiences" and others will say "I had such wonderful experiences growing up I want to recreate that". But what I think it is, is that it's simply natural to want boys and girls both and then our brains work overtime trying to find some justification for why. But we all have some kind of baggage going on. I think the GD is innate and then we try to find the "reason" that doesn't exist.

Yes, some people do want one or the other but back to my first point again, I suspect that MOST of those people would not feel it so deeply. If you come into having children with a strong boy preference, and have 2 g and a b, even if you'd rather have had 3 b it just doesn't HURT the way it does having NO boys does, if that makes sense. I don't mean to minimize anyone's feelings at all, and of course many have strong gender preferences with their first, or for a same sex sibling. My point is that when people look back in retrospect having mixed gender families, MOST people do not feel the same level of cutting pain that comes when you have zero. It's just not the same thing.

RE personality issues, yes, that comes into play too. For many of us it's not quite as much about gender but is about having a "dream family". I know some people who have gone into a tailspin because they didn't get the "right" kids in exactly the "right" order.

The good news is for you Chez, that kind of personality seems associated with more boys so it may very well be that you will get a little boy easily the next time.

[kittendreams]

Really interesting thread Chez.
I think about this more than I should and battle with my GD demons daily trying to understand 'why?' when I love my two boys endlessly and really quite love boy personalities, energy and interests.
Why aren't they enough?
Why do I want something that doesn't actually exist so consumingly?
Why am I putting such unrealistic expectations on my future happiness?

There are so many aspects to my GD and so many causes for it from being left by my own mum to dealing with people's comments and expectations about my family make up and everything in between.
But I am honestly stumped why this has taken over my life, my experience as a mother and why I am letting something so insidious control me.
I have a long ways to go but one thing is certain I love my boys- not for their gender or because they fulfil some societal expectation but because they are mine, they are vulnerable they need their mum and I need them.

Big hugs to all the parents feeling any kind of GD its a b*%+#!

[kittendreams]

I really feel with you about your mum. My mum was left by her mum and put into care and then my mum left my youngest sister and I.

It is such a complicated and emotional bond between mothers and daughters at times and I really feel like this is a common cause of GD.
My own mum had GD with my two eldest brothers and then went on to have 3 girls in a row with what she thought was shettles timing.
She has always been so open about wanting a girl and tells us often we were "planned" to fulfil her desire so I have been exposed to GD issues from a young age and I really think it contributes to my own feelings of GD.
What I struggle with is that mum left us... It's like she got what she wanted and then threw it away? How do you even begin to understand that?
I have a relationship with my mum now amd have "forgiven" her to help ease her guilt but she is not "Mumsy" and suffers huge demons of her own that make all our interactions so fake and polite just so we can have a relationship at all.

I so long to have a daughter to be real with, to experience womanhood with in all it's facets- the good the bad and the ugly lol!
I know I shouldn't feel like this but I think why can't I have just one daughter I would never throw her away! And then I feel so guilty because it's like my boys aren't good enough and that makes me like her....

[kittendreams]

I really feel with you about your mum Artisam.
My mum was left by her mum and put into care and then my mum left my youngest sister and I.

It is such a complicated and emotional bond between mothers and daughters at times and I really feel like this is a common cause of GD.
My own mum had GD with my two eldest brothers and then went on to have 3 girls in a row with what she thought was shettles timing.
She has always been so open about wanting a girl and tells us often we were "planned" to fulfil her desire so I have been exposed to GD issues from a young age and I really think it contributes to my own feelings of GD.
What I struggle with is that mum left us... It's like she got what she wanted and then threw it away? How do you even begin to understand that?
I have a relationship with my mum now amd have "forgiven" her to help ease her guilt but she is not "Mumsy" and suffers huge demons of her own that make all our interactions so fake and polite just so we can have a relationship at all.

I so long to have a daughter to be real with, to experience womanhood with in all it's facets- the good the bad and the ugly lol!
I know I shouldn't feel like this but I think why can't I have just one daughter I would never throw her away! And then I feel so guilty because it's like my boys aren't good enough and that makes me like her....

[kittendreams]

Sorry for the double post!
Was trying to reply to Artisams post about her mum- went back to edit and posted twice instead lol!

[Artisam]

I feel for you kitten. I don't think anyone can understand unless they too long for one gender or the other. I remember finding out my DS was a boy at 20weeks and once I got over the relief he was healthy I was so upset. I remember my sister told me the same thing with her first ds (she has two DS). After that I accepted it and was fine. Even when he was born, I was fine and in too much of a new baby bubble.
As time goes on there's that little niggle though, and for me doing the sway is my attempt to try and have a little 'control' and be like 'well, at least I tried' kind of thing.
It doesn't mean we don't love our boys, it's just different.
In an extremely selfish way my close friends both have 2 boys, my sister has 2 boys and another friend just found out she is having a boy. I find myself panicking sometimes when people close to me are pregnant and that I won't be able to deal with what they have (completely irrational!)!!
I think we get what we are supposed to have, and there is something very special about families with one gender!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ChezIBY]

Kitten, I agree with Artisam here and I feel for you; I also agree a hundred percent with Artisam about how your desire for a daughter does NOT mean that something is lacking in your relationship with your sons. You sound like a great mom, and I am genuinely impressed that after having such a complex history with your own mom you want to 'set things right'. I have a complicated relationship with my mom too - not abandonement, like you, more the opposite, she feels she has to control everything that me and my sisters do and we have to 'win her approval' ;) - and it left me feeling more like 'what a messy story, mother-daughter relationships are super hard to get right'; while you, your approach is very brave in wanting to tackle the whole thing and build something great with a DD of your own.

This has actually inspired me quite a bit in regards to my own DD, like, I can see it from an angle similar to yours now - 'maybe the universe wants me to get a DD to get it right this time?' So thank you very much for sharing and I hope, in a sort of 'balancing out fairness in the universe' way, that you get your DD down the road :) let's be patient and keep going for it!!

PS We're going to be sway buddies kitten! I see you're planning on TTC in 17/18 (though you'll be swaying the other way lol). High-five :)

[ChezIBY]

Isn't it amazing how we can already get deep into our GD when we only have one kid/are having our first kid Artisam? When I see some of the veterans on this sire, who had like five or six kids of the same gender and then finally get what they want, I'm blown away by their patience and resilience!!

We're already prepping for an opposite outcome down the line, but let's give it our best shot, if only to say we did our best like you said. :D

[ChezIBY]

Thanks so much Atomic, a great relief to read what you have to say, both about GD being natural (so we can stop beating ourselves up about it!) and about the fact that you had strong GD yourself and a preference with your first kid even. Do you have any tips whatsoever about how to feel closer/more connected with the kid you already have/are having please? I feel like currently I am more focused on my eventual sway than the DD I am already expecting, which doesn't feel very fair towards her - maybe I'll just fall in love with her once she arrives the way others say they did and I should just wait patiently till then? I don't feel crazy about the 'go shopping for baby clothes and you'll get excited' advice, I am not much of a pink-frilly girl, meh.

[Burakoam]

Thanks so much Atomic, a great relief to read what you have to say, both about GD being natural (so we can stop beating ourselves up about it!) and about the fact that you had strong GD yourself and a preference with your first kid even. Do you have any tips whatsoever about how to feel closer/more connected with the kid you already have/are having please? I feel like currently I am more focused on my eventual sway than the DD I am already expecting, which doesn't feel very fair towards her - maybe I'll just fall in love with her once she arrives the way others say they did and I should just wait patiently till then? I don't feel crazy about the 'go shopping for baby clothes and you'll get excited' advice, I am not much of a pink-frilly girl, meh.

Not atomic, and not sure how you will feel about this from an all girl mom (but to be fair, i wanted all my girls to be boys, and its why i have 4 and not 2...)

I feel like in some situations its one of those things where as they get older you bond more...The way you describe yourself i feel like if you had a boy first you would still be obsessing over these very same things for your girl sway and wondering if you were missing out on things with him. All we can do is our absolute best for all of our kids wether we have a preference or not, no matter the order we get them in, etc..

and chez, as another who is not a pink and frilly kind of girl..there are MANY ways to shop for a daughter that doesnt involve pink and frilly. Make her YOUR little girl..not someone elses :)...you think she looks better in black? put her in all black. Dont want her in hair bows or accessories? who needs them! Some of the cutest little girls i have seen are the girls in sweat pants and hoodies with long hair thats brushed well but not styled or done up all girly. My DD1 is this kind of girl :) My DD2 on the other hand i have to kind of grit my teeth with because she loves pink and frilly everything. DD3 is a mixture of both and for DD4 its too soon to tell :)

All of my girls love boy things and boy colors...my oldest two are heavily into video games like me and their father..

I didnt start getting close to DD1 until she was about 9. Before that i was kind of in 'survival mode' where i just did the best i could with her. She has never wanted for anything and she has always been a big mamas girl regardless...all you can do is your best, and yes i promise you will have 'something' take over you when your little girl is born..I personally dont call it love, i feel human beings take a while to bond with anyone even our offspring but thats what hormones and a family setting is for..it really cements that bonding and when you do fall in love with your baby its the kind of love that feels like its 'always' been there and i think thats why so many people have the mindset of "when they are born you will love them no matter what"

7 years into DD2 and still waiting to really and truly feel a bond with her but again she is a great kid and you wouldnt know it if you met her or me that we dont already have that bond....and yet on the other hand i have had this bond with DD3 since before she was conceived. It happens at different times with different kids i am certain of it..its not all related to gender disappointment and i think that just makes the whole thing more confusing especially with our firsts!

dd4 and i are struggling a tiny bit but only because she is a really hard baby. I still feel very close to her considering my failed sway and how i felt the first two times i became a mom...id say im not doing too bad right now.

I either came off as a completely terrible person or (hoping) i gave you something to look forward to and to have some hope of your own. at the very least some understanding that your feelings are normal and you arent the only one

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks so much Atomic, a great relief to read what you have to say, both about GD being natural (so we can stop beating ourselves up about it!) and about the fact that you had strong GD yourself and a preference with your first kid even. Do you have any tips whatsoever about how to feel closer/more connected with the kid you already have/are having please? I feel like currently I am more focused on my eventual sway than the DD I am already expecting, which doesn't feel very fair towards her - maybe I'll just fall in love with her once she arrives the way others say they did and I should just wait patiently till then? I don't feel crazy about the 'go shopping for baby clothes and you'll get excited' advice, I am not much of a pink-frilly girl, meh.

It's different when it's your first. It is totally natural and normal to have a HUGE feeling of disconnect from "motherhood" when you're carrying your first baby anyway, then throw GD onto the top of it and it really makes it hard. Even when you want a baby and plan the pregnancy, your "mommy feelings" don't kick in until there is a real live baby present and not just an ultrasound image.

I remember when I had my first, I wanted a baby desperately, got a boy which I wanted, but never felt that "connection" when I was pregnant. He came out and I clearly remember thinking "OMG it's a baby!!!" I knew I was having a baby of course but it didn't hit me till that moment that at the end of it there would be a real live baby person that was going to be MY CHILD for now and forever. After I had had him for about a week, I suddenly looked at him and felt this huge rush of love and then realzed OH ok that's what everyone is talking about. But I never felt it when he was in my tummy and even after he was born I didn't feel that head-over-heels feeling till he was about a week old. And that was with a baby that was my desired gender!!

[ChezIBY]

You don't sound like a terrible person at all!! (in fact everyone who has replied so far on this thread has been so kind and open and has shared amzing info, it's mind-blowing). What you have said is REALLY encouraging and I thank you.

A relief, reading that the pink/sparkles/flowers won't necessarily be required daily with a DD. And a huge relief, reading your confessions about how your bond with your DDs grew and changed over time, this is just great. I feel like this is something I will be able to fall back on, if I feel weird at times, and remind myself that other folks have felt the same thing and that sometimes it takes time, even several years, but I will get there and if I feel some way now it doesn't mean it will last forever.

It's crazy how you felt a bond with your third DD before she even made an appearance! (I wonder why??) And how different it is from one kid to the other.

It's great that you're doing so well with your youngest (who must be very young considering she was born this year). Thanks for taking the time to share this and to give encouragement - this is whqt blows me away in this community, how unselfish the ladies are; I mean, your family is complete and you are taking the time to help me go over my questions, bothering to read this through and write out answers and advice.. thanks :) :) Warm wishes to you and your family :)

[ChezIBY]

Thanks Atomic :) That's great to read :) I feel kinda happy when i feel the kid moving around inside, bu that's the only 'connection' I've felt so far; it feels alien talking about an actual little girl coming over to live forever.. but knowing it was like this for you and that you went on to become this great mom is super, it's really reassuring :) :)

[kittendreams]

Kitten, I agree with Artisam here and I feel for you; I also agree a hundred percent with Artisam about how your desire for a daughter does NOT mean that something is lacjing in your relationship with your sons. You sound like a great mom, and I am genuinely impressed that after having such a complex history with your own mom you want to 'set things right'. I have a complicated relationship with my mom too - not abandonement, like you, more the opposite, she feels she has to control everything that me and my sisters do and we have to 'win her approval' ;) - and it left me feeling more like 'what a messy story, mother-daughter relationships are super hard to get right'; while you, your approach is very brave in wanting to tackle the whole thing and build something great with a DD of your own.

This has actually inspired me quite a bit in regards to my own DD, like, I can see it from an angle similar to yours now - 'maybe the universe wants me to get a DD to get it right this time?' So thank you very much for sharing and I hope, in a sort of 'balancing out fairness in the universe' way, that you get your DD down the road :) let's be patient and keep going for it!!

PS We're going to be sway buddies kitten! I see you're planning on TTC in 17/18 (though you'll be swaying the other way lol). High-five :)

Oh what a sweet post Chezi thank you so much you sound like a wonderful mum yourself and such a compassionate person.
I can't even imagine living in your situation with your mum, feeling like you need to win her approval. I really feel for you in that and I hope you know you don't need anyone's approval but your own. You know who you are and if others can't see it or appreciate it then that is their loss xx
Just reading your posts makes it clear what an intelligent witty kind and generous person you are and any mum would be proud to call you her daughter.

Yes we will be sway buddies and I'm so glad because you are such a positive person it will be great to share the journey with you and to help eachother out!
I certainly know how to make beautiful boys so ask me anything you like xxx

[lindz]

Gender disappointment for me comes from feeling like everyone else gets what they want, why is it so hard for me? I always wanted both a boy and girl, but know that if I had gotten three girls instead, I would have been ok. Not having a girl though has been so hard for me. I feel like less of a woman having two boys as though that makes me more masculine or something. I love all things girly, so buying boy clothes and toys, while looking longingly at all the pretty girl dresses and dolls makes me sad. I have so many dreams of things I would love to do with a daughter, whereas for a son there was no specific dreams in mind, just thought it would be fun to have a boy. If I don't have a girl, I'll have to watch everyone else do the things I dreamed about doing, and feeling like I'm missing out on so much. There's some people I just feel have a "charmed life". They get everything they want without trying or even caring. When they get pregnant, they would be happy either way, but I just know they'll get the perfect girl/boy combo. So it's the feeling of why can't everything in my life be that easy? I try to step back and remind myself that I'm very lucky to even be able to have children, and I still have a chance of being able to have a girl


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Throwaway_panther]

Warning! LONG post hahaha

I'm glad you started this thread Chezi, because I think it's a really valuable topic to discuss -- because, truly, I wouldn't wish GD on anyone. It reminds me of the saying, "Worry is the thief of joy" -- I feel having such strong desire/preference strips the joy of pregnancy (though I'd argue for many, there's only so much joy to be had during the experience, haha). Even for those who get what they desperately want, there's still the first trimester more or less of worry, and for many, all the way until 20 weeks or so of, "What if this fetus is not what I desire?"

That said, I will disagree while agreeing on one topic: I think GD (as in, gender desire) isn't wholly natural in the same way it's not wholly "baggage." Academically, we know that now -- nothing psychologically is really 100% one or the other. The nature vs. nurture debate has shown that, more often than not, an interplay of BOTH is what leads to whatever. Not everyone tossed into a warzone gets PTSD; not everyone who loses a loved one develops full blown clinical depression; not everyone who drinks alcohol becomes an alcoholic.

And that's where the sort of "natural" disposition might come in -- truly, not everyone develops GD. For some, maybe it's because the statistics show that people DO tend to get one of each most of the time... so we'll never know if someone would have developed a strong desire for a child of a certain sex, or would have gotten so depressed for not having the sex they desired. For others, yeah, maybe they had a preference and it got fulfilled and that was that. For others, maybe they really were happy with what they got -- there's plenty of one kid families out there, and again citing statistics, sticking to one kid is on the rise even in the U.S. (where we seem to have the means to have bigger families in terms of space, religion, etc.).

Or, there's the argument of maybe everyone has that natural drive, but even for those who don't get both (or at least what they want in the first place), they are able to get over it better than us.

And that's where I think the nurture might come in. Some of us are willing to really put work into getting not just a baby, but a SPECIFIC baby. Some of us get literally suicidal when we don't get what we want (I'll NEVER forget the article I read back when I hung around IG of the mother who killed herself while pregnant with boy twins because she so desperately wanted a girl and already had two boys -- I was literally that low at points while pregnant with my DD; this stuff can be serious). Even for those who aren't that extreme, we're here, right? Fundamentally trying to alter our diets, our bodies, sometimes even our personalities.

THAT is where I think we have both nature and nurture coming into it. For every person that goes, "Well, I just wanted both," there's so many more saying, "Well, ____ childhood." Every psychologist worth their salt knows: almost everything comes back down to the family. How we were raised affects how we grow, on levels so minuscule that some argue it even alters our DNA (see: studies on depression in the generations of descendants of people who lived in warzones!)

So, my long drawn out thesis? I think there is no one answer. I don't think it's just solely an instinctual drive; I don't think it's just solely "wanting girly things or being a tomboy." We're all fundamentally approaching this from different angles, and that's why -- like most things -- it's multifaceted and difficult to cope and fully conquer.


But! Talking about it, like on here, I think can only help all of us get there, too. Talk therapy helps for a reason! And I think the more we discuss this, the more we can hopefully at least help even one person either learn to move on beyond their GD and live a happy, fulfilled life.

Now, I say all this from an "outside of myself" perspective: I, like you Chezi, have a deep rooted desire to set impossible standards for myself but still get them. Be as thin as possible. Then it was as strong as possible. I worked multiple jobs in university while holding all honors and was hellbent on getting two PhDs at one point (which money eventually showed me, "Okay, impossible standards!").

Complex Emotions is a user on here who I really love her thoughts, so I hope she pops in, because she's said similar to you: for some of us, would it just be the next obsession after we get what we want? I've felt that. I've literally thought, "After I get my son, I can go back to getting as skinny as possible like I've always had. I don't think I'd care as much about a second girl so long as I got my boy first." And, afterall, we have swayers on here who already have at least one of their DG -- and no shade to them, because I get it and do still harbor desire for more than one boy. But they got what they want... and still comes the desire for "giving my daughter her sister" or "giving my son his brother" and so on.

You had argued in another post that maybe it's a consumerist drive, which I thought about, and I don't know if I fully agree with that so much anymore. We have so, so many swayers on here from countries that don't have quite the same capitalistic culture of certain Western countries (like the U.S., Canada, Australia, etc.). Old Wives Tales to try and GET certain genders and predict certain genders pre-date that capitalist/consumerist economy, too (which I think supports atomic's claim on the more natural/biological element, too).

I don't know, it's multifaceted. But good to talk about.

[Throwaway_panther]

Thought I'd make this in a separate post:

My specific reasons for wanting a DS?

I've detailed this elsewhere, but it's always a downer. Came from a GGG family where we were abused by our father, me sexually abused by him as well, and told and shown in multiple ways how much we were not wanted because we weren't boys. I have a long history of sexual abuse on top of that from others, as well, and have experienced about every element of violence and discrimination because of my gender -- I feared having a daughter. It brought up, despite already being in therapy, the deepest rooted issues and forced me to work through them. Which is hard; it is very, very hard to work through that trauma in normal times, let alone when pregnant. I felt I wouldn't be able to protect her because I couldn't even protect myself; I felt she'd never be safe or valued in this world because I and so many women don't seem to be. It was hard.

On the flip side, I also am a very typical boy mom personality. I actually am very good with kids and have no worries with any gender in terms of sharing their interests, fostering their love, etc. But boys have ALWAYS seemed attached to me, and I wanted one for my own -- a boy who loves me not as his aunt or his teacher or his babysitter, but as his mother. And for me to have a male who would finally not hurt me.

And, opposing how I was raised, I want to raise boys into feminist men -- men who see women as equals, men who treat women well, men who feel able to follow whatever their hearts and minds want regardless of gender stereotypes.

But my super secret selfish desire? A gay son. Which IS playing into stereotypes, haha.

But Chez, I will echo what others have said: I was and am like you to an extent, though thankfully you don't seem quite as... unhinged... as I was when pregnant. I was on here at 20 weeks pregnant with my DD, learning about and planning my sway for my son. I was despondent over having my DD and convinced I would be reliving my own upbringing: a feeling like I was resented for existing.

It's different for everyone, but my bond with DD was immediate upon birth. I don't exaggerate -- I opened my eyes after pushing her out (which, haha, don't want to scare you with that but... whew!) and saw her as my DH handed her to me, and someone even snapped a photo of me. It was enthralling. I am still enthralled to her. I sit here, with best friends from childhood around me, and still feel like my 10 month old DD is somehow my best friend. She still feels a part of myself despite being on the outside... and if you saw some of my posts when I first came to this site, I think you'd be amazed to see me writing this haha. I was NOT bonded in pregnancy at ALL.

I sometimes wonder if I needed to have my DD in order to finally tackle and conquer the darkest parts of myself. If I had had all boys like I dreamed, would I have ever fully examined and worked through my childhood sexual abuse? Would I have really been the best parent to all boys still not being my strongest, best self? I don't think so.

It's hard, and I've said this elsewhere: GD is awful for everyone, but there is a certain sort of torture for those who have it with their first and don't yet know that there IS a bond that will happen -- maybe at different times, like Buro and atomic showed, but it will come. There's also a hard part in not quite realizing that hormones alter and exacerbate our emotions and thoughts in pregnancy that's hard to stay apart of. Having at least one pregnancy and child under your belt can put that in perspective for the next kid, for sure -- I've been pregnant twice since DD, both losses, but I was already in a different place mentally than I was before and during DD with them.

You DO seem like you have a good handle on everything though, and I think that's wonderful to see.

[Throwaway_panther]

Thanks so much Atomic, a great relief to read what you have to say, both about GD being natural (so we can stop beating ourselves up about it!) and about the fact that you had strong GD yourself and a preference with your first kid even. Do you have any tips whatsoever about how to feel closer/more connected with the kid you already have/are having please? I feel like currently I am more focused on my eventual sway than the DD I am already expecting, which doesn't feel very fair towards her - maybe I'll just fall in love with her once she arrives the way others say they did and I should just wait patiently till then? I don't feel crazy about the 'go shopping for baby clothes and you'll get excited' advice, I am not much of a pink-frilly girl, meh.

I was this person on here at exactly this time last year :P

Honestly, following HE stuff for a sway is only a good thing for pregnancy and breastfeeding, haha. So it's not a BAD thing to be so invested into a sway before you've even had your first kid, because you're not shortchanging her now. If you take care of yourself, you're taking care of your DD and that's about all there is to do when still pregnant! Even my mental anguish while pregnant with DD didn't seem to affect her as I was VERY concerned would happen -- she is very, very happy and people constantly comment on what a smart, aware, happy and "good" baby she is. And she's INSANELY attached to me, too. Which really was fortunate for me, as it helped me extinguish any and all disappointment with her. As others have said, bonding while pregnant anyway is... not always a thing! It's very common.

When she's here, you will discover a balance of sorts between the two!

And you also might surprise yourself with the pink and frilly... I am very not that. I didn't want to do that. I still have stuff gifted to us that I dress her in and get excited to match headbands and things. Who knew? But she's also still in lots of other not conventionally "girly" things all the time. And I can tell you that, based on her personality, she is very unlikely to be the "very girly" stereotype, either. She's very active and "sporty" even, I'd say, at this young. Very interested in reading and exploring and animals and mischief and so on.

But, I was like that myself, and I still enjoy makeup every so often and I like dresses and what not. We're not all black and white. There's gray everywhere :)

[ChezIBY]

Panther,

You're bloody amazing!! (Also, you're me, aren't you? ;) Jokes aside, it sounds like we have a lot in common, the overachieving since an early age, becoming obsessed about getting things 'right', coming from a GGG family - I'm just happy to report that abuse was not a part of my childhood and.. it's incredible how calm you are, discussing this, you sound like you've worked through a ton of things - wish I could give you a hug though <3) And you're so funny too, I literally burst out laughing at your phrase 'you don't seem quite as... unhinged' OMG, ROFL!! :D

It's very reassuring to read what you've got to say about how you felt once your DD was born, particularly reassuring given that I feel like we have a lot of common traits :) :) I am so sorry for your losses too, yeah, I saw that in your signature earlier :( Why does this have to happen... you're so resilient! How are you feeling now? Are you going to have to take a break before TTC again? I'm sure you'll get there Panther, but yes, it seems like life is throwing you a lot of hurdles - you seem like the kind of girl who is ready to keep on fighting though, that's great (and sways blue I guess ;) )

The origin of GD - multi-faceted, like you said I guess. I started this thread because (genius that I am ;p) I was like, 'haha, we can pinpoint where this comes from and then we'll have everyone feeling better in a moment!' except that, yes, seems there isn't just one reason for everyone, seems it varies in degrees of impact and personality has an influence.. I'll have to go over what people said and think on it again. But one thing is sure - no quick fix here!

But I am SO happy that I started the discussion because people's ideas and stories have been great, and I agree with you that talking about it opens up a lot of new angles.

Crossing my fingers for your future TTC attempts - it's just great how accepting and mature you are, how you've worked through all this stuff that has happened to you, and it sure sounds like you are a wonderful mom and ready to give your kids just what kids need - loving and accepting them unconditionally, the way they are! Bravo, it is VERY hard to get through something so unfair that happened when you were so young and not hold a grudge on the world and 'get back' at your own family or other people.

Oh yeah - don't you worry about scaring me about childbirth, numerous are the women at my work who have already tackled that task ;) Since I told everyone at work I was expecting, every woman I know and don't know has found it her duty to have a chat with me detailing the horrendous experiences she/a friend/a neighbour/Aunt Maggie had in the delivery room. It's so nice how folks can be supportive! I might have disappointed many a soul with my lack of appropriately horrified reactions though... ;)

[ChezIBY]

I was this person on here at exactly this time last year :P

Honestly, following HE stuff for a sway is only a good thing for pregnancy and breastfeeding, haha. So it's not a BAD thing to be so invested into a sway before you've even had your first kid, because you're not shortchanging her now. If you take care of yourself, you're taking care of your DD and that's about all there is to do when still pregnant! Even my mental anguish while pregnant with DD didn't seem to affect her as I was VERY concerned would happen -- she is very, very happy and people constantly comment on what a smart, aware, happy and "good" baby she is. And she's INSANELY attached to me, too. Which really was fortunate for me, as it helped me extinguish any and all disappointment with her. As others have said, bonding while pregnant anyway is... not always a thing! It's very common.

When she's here, you will discover a balance of sorts between the two!

And you also might surprise yourself with the pink and frilly... I am very not that. I didn't want to do that. I still have stuff gifted to us that I dress her in and get excited to match headbands and things. Who knew? But she's also still in lots of other not conventionally "girly" things all the time. And I can tell you that, based on her personality, she is very unlikely to be the "very girly" stereotype, either. She's very active and "sporty" even, I'd say, at this young. Very interested in reading and exploring and animals and mischief and so on.

But, I was like that myself, and I still enjoy makeup every so often and I like dresses and what not. We're not all black and white. There's gray everywhere :)

I know, you're me and I'm you, right?? This is amazing :) :)

I'll have to look up some of your old posts from last year and read through them :)

Oh, and if you can believe it - I've also ALREADY gone over how I'll lose any excess weight gained on the HE diet - I am also rather fit and skinny as it is, and bent on staying that way, I'm bent on being the Mom with the family of my dreams AND the body of my dreams.. Gawd, we're nuts, aren't we? ;)

I've kept on exercising during pregnancy, stuff approved by the doc, so a lot for the arms and legs, sparing the tummy obv - and am very proud about people praising me about how fit I am staying at this time and how I am consequently energetic etc. I bet you were like that.... and are like that :)

Weight lifting is authorized for blue swayers, score that :)

Pink rubs me the right way, but.. after reading everyone's posts and feeling a hundred percent better I found myself looking at little headbands with flowers, like sunflowers and stuff :) I thought they were real cute! I hope I have such a great connection with my DD, like what you've got :)

[ChezIBY]

that was my question, which you partly answered in the end - are you planning on trying for a girl again? And how do you feel now that some time has passed, does the GD change over time or is it a constant?

[Lindzter]

Such interesting and varied reasons for experiencing GD, thanks for sharing everyone.

For me, it's several things. I have two amazing boys, I grew up with two brothers, and my husband has two brothers as well. It just feels like our family is missing the energy and presence of a girl at this point. We get together with the extended fam and the lack of women or girls is almost comical. So there is that weighing on us.

I am actually really close with my mom and have almost like a friend relationship with her at times. I always casually assumed when I thought about having kids that there would be at least 1 girl in there somewhere. Now I am getting into my late 30's (I'm 36) and realizing it might not ever happen and I might not have that dynamic with a daughter like I have with my mom and I feel incredibly bummed about missing out on that relationship. Of course I have a special relationship with my boys too but it will continue to evolve and change as everyone gets older. I see my husband having buddies to do "guy stuff" with for the rest of his life, and I want that buddy to do and talk about "girl stuff" with too...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[subban]

The thing that hits me while reading this thread is that a lot of us really seem to have similar aspects in our personality / character. For me, as pointed out before, setting goals and achieving them has been my objective since I was a kid. GD has been the one thing that I felt I had no control over: despite how hard I would work to achieve my goal, at the end I was not the one to decide. I must say that I had really bad GD. When I compare to my friends that have same gender family, no one had it as deeply as me (or it was never discussed, I certainly never mentioned it, I was way to ashamed).

Looking back I can definitely say that GD was a big part of my like for 10 years. I still wonder how I will look back to those years because it seems that all this time I was just waiting and working toward getting my daughter. The last two years before she was born, I was so obsessed by the HT process we had finally engaged in that it seems like I don't remember anything I did during those 2 years. I must say it feels pathetic as I had a career. A DH and 3 adorable DS to fill my life.

Now that she is here, I feel like I don't know what is my goal anymore and I feel this big hole in my life. I'm happy it's over but it makes me realized how all my like was centred around this project.

GD is so underestimate and I feel so deeply for anyone that is stuck with this *%^>. ❤️


3 beautiful boys [emoji970] (10) [emoji970](7) [emoji970](4) and our HRC HT DD [emoji166] (2016)

[ChezIBY]

I think you're on to something with this: '(or it was never discussed, I certainly never mentioned it, I was way to ashamed)'. Here we're all really honest, but you know what it's like 'in real life', so I would not be at all surprised if many people hide their feelings about GD (and heck anything else) from those around them including significant others and close family/friends and even from themselves.

It's this way about almost every other subject that matters - statistically, half the of the married couples living in Paris end up breaking up. Yet, except for very close friends confiding things, I never seem to see it coming. There's so-and-so married to so-and-so, and they are the happiest couple ever, and every time you meet up they are telling you about their great vacation and their new home and their future plans, and then some time later you hear they've both gotten lawyers and dividing their assets :/
Why the appearances, why do we feel we have to keep them up and say/do 'what we are supposed to'?

It's obvious why in this case of course - like you said, GD is kind of taboo I guess, of course you'd never have spoken about it - imagine if you had gone on and confessed as openly as here what your feelings were, I can just imagine the horrified reactions and lectures on 'be thankful you have a healthy kid, what does it matter what gender it is'. ;p

I'm real glad for you that your long journey is over though and kudos on sticking it out :) :) Don't worry, I think it must be natural to feel some emptiness after pursuing a goal for so long and with so much energy! You'll probably relax over time, enjoy the family you've fought so hard to create and also get excited about new goals, personalor professional, don't you think? Give yourself time, you've worked so hard!

[ChezIBY]

Such interesting and varied reasons for experiencing GD, thanks for sharing everyone.

For me, it's several things. I have two amazing boys, I grew up with two brothers, and my husband has two brothers as well. It just feels like our family is missing the energy and presence of a girl at this point. We get together with the extended fam and the lack of women or girls is almost comical. So there is that weighing on us.

I am actually really close with my mom and have almost like a friend relationship with her at times. I always casually assumed when I thought about having kids that there would be at least 1 girl in there somewhere. Now I am getting into my late 30's (I'm 36) and realizing it might not ever happen and I might not have that dynamic with a daughter like I have with my mom and I feel incredibly bummed about missing out on that relationship. Of course I have a special relationship with my boys too but it will continue to evolve and change as everyone gets older. I see my husband having buddies to do "guy stuff" with for the rest of his life, and I want that buddy to do and talk about "girl stuff" with too...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't know what your particular circumstances are, but 36 is not too late is it? I'm the third kid in our family and my Mom had me at precisely that age :)

Something else that I noticed and you'll maybe agree - it's the difference between gender desire and disappointment, already undelined by the forum moderators - some people seem to have a particular yearning for a certain gender while others are worried about having a gender for specific reasons (e.g. difficulties they went through at an early age) so they want the other one 'by default' - so it is slightly different I think.. you can see it in the reasons listed on this thread.

[atomic sagebrush]

Gender disappointment for me comes from feeling like everyone else gets what they want, why is it so hard for me? I always wanted both a boy and girl, but know that if I had gotten three girls instead, I would have been ok. Not having a girl though has been so hard for me. I feel like less of a woman having two boys as though that makes me more masculine or something. I love all things girly, so buying boy clothes and toys, while looking longingly at all the pretty girl dresses and dolls makes me sad. I have so many dreams of things I would love to do with a daughter, whereas for a son there was no specific dreams in mind, just thought it would be fun to have a boy. If I don't have a girl, I'll have to watch everyone else do the things I dreamed about doing, and feeling like I'm missing out on so much. There's some people I just feel have a "charmed life". They get everything they want without trying or even caring. When they get pregnant, they would be happy either way, but I just know they'll get the perfect girl/boy combo. So it's the feeling of why can't everything in my life be that easy? I try to step back and remind myself that I'm very lucky to even be able to have children, and I still have a chance of being able to have a girl


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This plays a huge part for me as well (the feeling like everyone else gets at least some of what they want fairly easily and I have had to fight tooth and nail for it). I wish it didn't, but it still messes with my head sometimes. Literally everyone I know IRL just has a boy and a girl. They have happy families with loving parents and money (not only are they making good money, but their parents will just buy or give them houses and cars and trips to Vegas and shit) and perfect houses and fantastic clothes and go on all these vacations and all look like they are having way more fun than me and they are like 27 years old and I just think how can I be approaching 50 years old and my life sucks THIS much? It's so unfair.

Granted, I've had kind of a bad week this week so please excuse my rant but I"m really feeling pretty shitty about it right now.

Sometimes it felt like my parents were on a mission to make me completely insane, moving every year and expecting me to be perfect at everything all the time and that they didn't care about me at all for anything other than what I could do for them. My husband is not kind or supportive and sometimes seems almost to take delight in my unhappiness.
Total strangers online are pretty much always nicer to me than my so called loved ones. We're poor because my husband lost his job for no other reason than just sheer dumb luck - not because he did anything wrong, he was a hard worker, everybody liked him, it was just his shift that happened to get cut, of course. I was born ugly and had to have facial reconstructive surgery and painful braces for 4+ years to look normal and that was after years of vicious and constant teasing. I have these weird mysterious health issues that no doctor can ever figure out. I have allergies and migraines and a heart problem that make me miserable. I did finally get a daughter but it was after 4 boys for 20+ years and only after I had to do all this work and research to get her and I'll be dead or elderly before she's even grown up. I could go on for like 4 hours writing all this stuff down (like I said, having a pretty bad couple of weeks)

I know logically and rationally there are people who have things way worse than me, and I count my blessings all the time, don't get me wrong but MAN sometimes it just really, really sticks in my craw watching these people who have never had 1/110th of the life challenges that I have met, kicked the butt of, and overcome, just get handed whatever they want. Rant over

[coralsky]

Aw atomic, I want to send you the biggest virtual hug... you're right, life can be so shitty and unfair sometimes, and I'm so sorry you're dealing with all this..
It is tough seeing others having seemingly 'perfect' lives I totally agree. But I am willing to bet that those people do not have 1/100th of your compassion, determination, strength, or beauty- both inside & out. (I've seen your family picture, you are ALL beautiful, and suzie is a vision of her mom! ;))
Not to mention that you have pretty much single-handedly and anonymously helped thousands of ladies all over the world achieve their dreams. How many other people can say that? That's pretty extraordinary. You are wonderful. An amazing mom, and a beautiful person, don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. We all love you ❤️
Feel better soon xxxx

[kittendreams]

:agree:To everything coralsky said!

It really does sound like life has dealt you some tough cards and lessons atomic but oh my how you have played them!!!
You are are an inspiration and goddess to thousands of women looking for fulfilment in their life's dream. YOU amd only you are responsible for the happiness of countless women who would otherwise never know the pure joy in getting their desired gender.
Never ever underestimate your worth or the amazing gifts you have shared with the world.
I honestly hope that you know your true worth and how talented you truly are xxx

[kittendreams]

And btw it is absolutely impossible for someone as compassionate, patient and insightful as you to be "ugly" no way, no how!

[ChezIBY]

:agree::agree: with everything Coralsky and Kitten said!!

Atomic, wish I could give you a huge hug, you've obviously been going through some rough times :/ For what it's worth:

No WAY can you possibly be or have been ugly!! OK, I've never seen you, but the little girl on your avatar is your DD I guess? She's gorgeous (!!) and no way can she have been born from a mom who was 'born ugly'. We have these impossible standards of what is 'beautiful' blown around, and if you look over the decades and centuries it seems they have always been there, albeit changing; women had to be plump to be attractive, then super duper skinny, wear wigs, pile on the make-up, be blonde, be brunette, follow the current fashion, UGH. Exhausting!

That being said, one extra thing on looks - I feel for you regarding the braces! If it can make you feel better, I had them for a total of like eight years, no exaggerations! First all through my adolescence, taking up a bunch of time and money, changing retainers I don't know how many times and taxing me and my poor parents - and then when they came off, my FRONT teeth were crooked!! I mean, if some teeth in the back had been, that would have been 'acceptable', but this!! I remember being outraged at the time, at age 18 (the doctor had been no good obviously, but there had not been much choice close to home at the time, and dental is still surprisingly often bad quality outside the US I feel, unless you really are a hundred percent sure you have a great doctor. It costs a fortune in the US too, I'm sure - but at least I feel like almost all the doctors are giving you guys that Hollywood grin in the end, so you know you'll get your money's worth!) So then I had to wait till I was an adult and earning my life, set money aside, find a good practitioner and go in again - two years, finally off last year and finally a good result at age 27 after living for so long with crooked teeth (even at my wedding, I was smiling without showing my teeth, sob).. and I am grateful!! Because, being a bit obsessed with this at the time, it's something I pay attention to - and I often notice people having crooked teeth in photos, say some Japanese people (cause I like following Japanese TV shows), even celebrities like news spokespeople, who must earn decent money, sometimes have teeth that are SO crooked! Making me wonder whether it doesn't cost an impossible fortune there, or whether there are very few doctors available or something.. so at least I'm in a country where a solution *can* eventually (if expensively) be found, I try to tell myself, phew.

Jokes and talk on teeth aside, there are people who seem to get things handed to them on a golden platter with fries on the side, while we're here working our butts off for a fraction of that result. (Sophie Kinsella, is she popular in the US? I've read her last book, 'My Not So Perfect Life', recently, it should be available in libraries your end if it is already in France - a great pick-me-up if you like chick flicks, all about a girl struggling to make it in London while her friends/co-workers surf along with Mommy and Daddy's cash, argh.) But you know what Atomic? Your example is the best thing EVER for your kids right now. Seriously; the economy is in a rut, it's a global trend, recession everywhere in the western countries, the easy life is over! Your kids, they're going to have to learn to fight for everything, just like every other young person these days, and damn is it a good thing for them to see you tackle the problems you're dealing with now. It's not a very amusing picture, but trust me, the kiddies of your happy-go-lucky friends will run into problems eventually, just like your kids - except it's YOUR kids who will be better equipped to find good solutions, fast! The easy life just doesn't breed strong children, it just can't! And life isn't going to be easy for anyone in the coming years and decades (unless you are Paris Hilton or Brad Pitt I guess, but I'd draw the line there). So there's that, you'll definitely raise fighters and what you'll give them will be much more valuable than any material wealth just falling in their lap.

On that note - we all come into life as we are, we'll all leave one day just the same, and when that final day comes individually for each person, YOU, Atomic, you can be so proud that you will definitely have something to look back at and say, 'Yes, that was worth it, it's a great thing I was born and lived my life'. Every single day, when you get up and see yourself in the mirror, you should be proud, you should hold your head up high, you should say, 'Here I am, Atomic Sagebrush, I have helped hundreds, thousands of women out in a major way, so few people will ever do what I have done'. You're such a star, such an inspiration, you did all this work and you're sharing it all instead of selfishly hogging it up, supporting all of us - I wish wish wish I can have such a positive impact on people one day, like what you did. It's just so much more important in the end than chalking up things you only did for yourself like buying stuff or getting expensive gifts.

Finally - I really hope your hubby works things out, it sucks that he got laid off, but that too is a global trend, cuts everywhere, people fired left and right :/ Wait till the people who are 27 now get to 50, there will be even more lay-offs.. but that is irrelevant at the moment at this point of course, we're here and now and the situation is what it is. Argh, Atomic, it seems it's always the strong ones who get all the hurdles in life, 'burdens are for shoulders strong enough to carry them.'

You hang in there and you rant here anytime you like, kay? You have the right to at any moment, given how you're always OUR rock.

Sending love and hugs and thinking of you, hoping you feel a bit better!

PS I was actually thinking about you on waking up today, before reading your post, thinking over everything the women share on here and how honest they are about their thoughts and feelings - and I really think you should write a book sometime Atomic, you must definitely have the material gathered by now, and it would be quite a sensation. I feel like GD is something a bunch of people encounter and just never talk about because it is sort of 'taboo', and you have built up this unique place where we can share our innermost thoughts on the subject.. thanks btw :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks, ladies, I really appreciate your kind words. :hugs::hugs::hugs:

[foxtrotmama]

For me, personally, I think the GD is a pretty clear combination of two factors.

I was raised in a home that (subconsciously, unintentionally) didn't value femininity. It's not like anyone actively discouraged it, but neither my mom nor my stepmother (my Dad remarried when I was very young) is "girly". No one in my life really styled their hair or wore makeup. I don't think I owned a dress between the year I begged to be Belle for Halloween (3?) and the first semi-formal dance I went to in high school. I think that may be part of my burning desire to buy hair ribbons and party dresses.

The other factor is my first baby. While I'd always pictured myself with a boy first (and eventually got that), my first pregnancy was a baby girl. Ultimately, I lost her in the second trimester, but I had time to fall in love not only with her but with the idea of raising a little girl.

On the other hand, I think it's pretty natural to want to have a child of a certain gender or to want to have children of both. But those two things feel like they've impacted how deeply I feel the GD. I know that while I can be detail oriented, I'm not someone who tends to be focused on a specific goal or who gets hung up on achieving something specific. I mean, I have goals going all the time (like saving for a new vehicle, finishing the bathroom, reading a certain number of books a year), I'm just not someone who tends to have that kind of thing consume my life. I do get obsessive, just not goal oriented.

[ChezIBY]

Thanks for your insight Foxtrot and I'm so sorry it went that way with your first pregnancy :( A colleague of mine (who's more of a friend now) and who has GBB ended up telling me that she had lost a first too before her three kids (talks tend to turn to kids and pregnancy naturally around me these days for obvious reasons and somehow being pregnant girl seems to inspire more confidences than usual). I had had no idea about her having gone through that (and a subsequent depression apparently) and just I've been completely in the dark before about how common miscarrying occurs; since being pregnant and reading up here and talking to folks I'm realizing what a common occurence it is and for no apparent reason at times it seems. I am so glad you could go on to have your DSs!!! <3

[4blue2pink]

im not sure how helpful my input can be here but for me personally i was raised in a house where my mum made no secret of the fact that she ONLY wanted girls (she had me then wanted another girl but for health reasons wasnt able to have #2 though her name was picked out etc) she was apparently a complete nightmare during my pregnancy going on and on and on about how the baby HAD to be a girl, no-one could talk her round to the idea of a boy, her parents were very worried about what she would do if i did come out a boy, there was huge relief all round for various reasons when i was born a girl.

my mums parents had one of each but hugely favour girls, i think this came about as their son has lots of health issues and has to have carers as he cant live alone etc and he lived with them until he was in his 40's so they never got to really enjoy their retirement and i think they resented it a bit. my mum grew up with her brother having all these issues and causing all these problems and i think it turned her off having boys completely..

then my mum passed away young and it just destroyed her parents, my grandma was telling everyone at the funeral that "the wrong one died.."

just to add my dad had grown-up sons from a previous marriage, i dont think he was bothered gender wise either way..

having my mum openly talk ALL THE TIME about how horrible and disgusting little boys are and how she pitied women who had sons etc i had mega gender desire for a girl with my first baby and when he was confirmed a boy at 20 weeks it turned into gender disappointment. my mum died when i was a child and maybe that played a role too. add in the general public feeling here that favours girls and it felt like only baby girls were acceptable. i honestly think that if my mum had been alive when i had my boys she would have been openly disappointed, my grandad (mums dad) certainly was/is but he is over the moon with our girls.

with my first baby i wasnt bonded with him but my DH really wanted boys so i was glad that he was happy and we wanted more kids so i was lucky that it wasnt my only shot.

then i got pregnant with number 2-a girl who we lost half way through the pregnancy and this is where it became complete desperation to have girls.

but we went on to have 3 boys in a row, it felt like a cruel joke as everyone around us was getting girls no effort and in some cases they were open at how they were drunken mistakes and they smoked and drank during pregnancy, one person i went to school with and still knew of mainly due to her very sad downward spiral even continued to use heroin during her pregnancy and her daughter was born addicted.. her little girl still made it full term and healthy despite all that but ours died for no apparent reason.

it honestly seemed like we just weren't good enough for girls or something.. and other people were being awful, having an all boy/4 boy family here is NOT ok, i had constant comments from strangers about how horrid it was and how we didnt have a girl etc which hurt even more because we did have a girl but of course no-one could see her because she had died, it was like she only existed inside our house which killed me.

so for me its a combination of coming from a family that favours girls, with a mum who really pushed that on me. then later losing my daughter and having 1-2-3-4 boys just fuelled the fire. i felt i had to prove to myself and everyone else that i could have a healthy living daughter(s)

however if we had had all girls i do think i might be here swaying blue, all be it in a very different place.. overall i think the desire to raise both genders would have kicked in with me and my dh would have been desperate for a boy/s and i would have wanted to give him that. i think the desire to experience both is very natural, hence one of each been seen as *perfect* (though ive never thought that about PP's tbh its not my idea of perfection at all..no hate intended)

we have since gone on to have 2 girls in a row so i could do a post about how that has affected things if people want me too.. but its off topic and i dont want to upset anyone writing about how things are/GD/why im still swaying even after we got what we wanted-twice, as i am well aware that so many women on here would kill for just one girl and i wish all of you the best on your pink and blue swaying journeys xx

[Hopefullmummy]

This plays a huge part for me as well (the feeling like everyone else gets at least some of what they want fairly easily and I have had to fight tooth and nail for it). I wish it didn't, but it still messes with my head sometimes. Literally everyone I know IRL just has a boy and a girl. They have happy families with loving parents and money (not only are they making good money, but their parents will just buy or give them houses and cars and trips to Vegas and shit) and perfect houses and fantastic clothes and go on all these vacations and all look like they are having way more fun than me and they are like 27 years old and I just think how can I be approaching 50 years old and my life sucks THIS much? It's so unfair.

Granted, I've had kind of a bad week this week so please excuse my rant but I"m really feeling pretty shitty about it right now.

Sometimes it felt like my parents were on a mission to make me completely insane, moving every year and expecting me to be perfect at everything all the time and that they didn't care about me at all for anything other than what I could do for them. My husband is not kind or supportive and sometimes seems almost to take delight in my unhappiness.
Total strangers online are pretty much always nicer to me than my so called loved ones. We're poor because my husband lost his job for no other reason than just sheer dumb luck - not because he did anything wrong, he was a hard worker, everybody liked him, it was just his shift that happened to get cut, of course. I was born ugly and had to have facial reconstructive surgery and painful braces for 4+ years to look normal and that was after years of vicious and constant teasing. I have these weird mysterious health issues that no doctor can ever figure out. I have allergies and migraines and a heart problem that make me miserable. I did finally get a daughter but it was after 4 boys for 20+ years and only after I had to do all this work and research to get her and I'll be dead or elderly before she's even grown up. I could go on for like 4 hours writing all this stuff down (like I said, having a pretty bad couple of weeks)

I know logically and rationally there are people who have things way worse than me, and I count my blessings all the time, don't get me wrong but MAN sometimes it just really, really sticks in my craw watching these people who have never had 1/110th of the life challenges that I have met, kicked the butt of, and overcome, just get handed whatever they want. Rant over

Whenever I see someone who is seriously amazing and someone I look up to struggle or go through a bad time it reminds me that we re all human at the end of our day. With our insecurities and all.

You are by far one of the most selfless and giving women out there. Every day on this site answering questions one after another like a broken record. The same questions again and again. You're a.mn amazing woman, human and so many people are thankful for everything you've done for them. Just the level of research you've done on its own is so impressive. You're some woman atomic. You really are. This world is lucky to have you. All these women are lucky to have you. Everything you've done and the hardship you Ve been not only has helped you get your daughter but it's helped heal so many people's hearts. Whether they've got their desired gender or not you're given people more than a 50/50 chance. Which is more than anyone has. Know that you are truely special. One of a kind. And we re so thankful to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atomic sagebrush]

:heart: Thank you.

[ChezIBY]

im not sure how helpful my input can be here but for me personally i was raised in a house where my mum made no secret of the fact that she ONLY wanted girls (she had me then wanted another girl but for health reasons wasnt able to have #2 though her name was picked out etc) she was apparently a complete nightmare during my pregnancy going on and on and on about how the baby HAD to be a girl, no-one could talk her round to the idea of a boy, her parents were very worried about what she would do if i did come out a boy, there was huge relief all round for various reasons when i was born a girl.

my mums parents had one of each but hugely favour girls, i think this came about as their son has lots of health issues and has to have carers as he cant live alone etc and he lived with them until he was in his 40's so they never got to really enjoy their retirement and i think they resented it a bit. my mum grew up with her brother having all these issues and causing all these problems and i think it turned her off having boys completely..

then my mum passed away young and it just destroyed her parents, my grandma was telling everyone at the funeral that "the wrong one died.."

just to add my dad had grown-up sons from a previous marriage, i dont think he was bothered gender wise either way..

having my mum openly talk ALL THE TIME about how horrible and disgusting little boys are and how she pitied women who had sons etc i had mega gender desire for a girl with my first baby and when he was confirmed a boy at 20 weeks it turned into gender disappointment. my mum died when i was a child and maybe that played a role too. add in the general public feeling here that favours girls and it felt like only baby girls were acceptable. i honestly think that if my mum had been alive when i had my boys she would have been openly disappointed, my grandad (mums dad) certainly was/is but he is over the moon with our girls.

with my first baby i wasnt bonded with him but my DH really wanted boys so i was glad that he was happy and we wanted more kids so i was lucky that it wasnt my only shot.

then i got pregnant with number 2-a girl who we lost half way through the pregnancy and this is where it became complete desperation to have girls.

but we went on to have 3 boys in a row, it felt like a cruel joke as everyone around us was getting girls no effort and in some cases they were open at how they were drunken mistakes and they smoked and drank during pregnancy, one person i went to school with and still knew of mainly due to her very sad downward spiral even continued to use heroin during her pregnancy and her daughter was born addicted.. her little girl still made it full term and healthy despite all that but ours died for no apparent reason.

it honestly seemed like we just weren't good enough for girls or something.. and other people were being awful, having an all boy/4 boy family here is NOT ok, i had constant comments from strangers about how horrid it was and how we didnt have a girl etc which hurt even more because we did have a girl but of course no-one could see her because she had died, it was like she only existed inside our house which killed me.

so for me its a combination of coming from a family that favours girls, with a mum who really pushed that on me. then later losing my daughter and having 1-2-3-4 boys just fuelled the fire. i felt i had to prove to myself and everyone else that i could have a healthy living daughter(s)

however if we had had all girls i do think i might be here swaying blue, all be it in a very different place.. overall i think the desire to raise both genders would have kicked in with me and my dh would have been desperate for a boy/s and i would have wanted to give him that. i think the desire to experience both is very natural, hence one of each been seen as *perfect* (though ive never thought that about PP's tbh its not my idea of perfection at all..no hate intended)

we have since gone on to have 2 girls in a row so i could do a post about how that has affected things if people want me too.. but its off topic and i dont want to upset anyone writing about how things are/GD/why im still swaying even after we got what we wanted-twice, as i am well aware that so many women on here would kill for just one girl and i wish all of you the best on your pink and blue swaying journeys xx

Hey there 4blue2pink,
And holy guacamole, where do you guys live?? I just can’t believe the amount of pressure some women on here seem to be experiencing from their social environment, like you said that having all boys and four boys ‘was not acceptable’ where you’re at – that is so awful!! It makes me so mad that anyone could make you feel that way and put that sort of pressure on you, and it is really heartbreaking what happened with your first DD :( I am so happy for how you seem to be feeling now – it really seems that despite all of the pressure you underwent, you have remained serene and focused, and you went on to have your DDs and your family (including DH) sounds really great, so many kids! And bravo on staying sane despite all of those berks around you piling it on. I would be curious to know why you keep on swaying and about how the attitude towards you and your family has changed since you had your DDs, if this isn’t to private? Wishing you all the very best for your current pregnancy (this is your eighth pregnancy then?? You are a marvel!! Great job!)
All the best, warm hugs :)

[ChezIBY]

Whenever I see someone who is seriously amazing and someone I look up to struggle or go through a bad time it reminds me that we re all human at the end of our day. With our insecurities and all.

You are by far one of the most selfless and giving women out there. Every day on this site answering questions one after another like a broken record. The same questions again and again. You're a.mn amazing woman, human and so many people are thankful for everything you've done for them. Just the level of research you've done on its own is so impressive. You're some woman atomic. You really are. This world is lucky to have you. All these women are lucky to have you. Everything you've done and the hardship you Ve been not only has helped you get your daughter but it's helped heal so many people's hearts. Whether they've got their desired gender or not you're given people more than a 50/50 chance. Which is more than anyone has. Know that you are truely special. One of a kind. And we re so thankful to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:agree::agree::agree: Huge thumbs up for this post, you said everything that I'm thinking Hopeful, agree with every word.

[frankie2017]

Really interesting thread Chez.
I think about this more than I should and battle with my GD demons daily trying to understand 'why?' when I love my two boys endlessly and really quite love boy personalities, energy and interests.
Why aren't they enough?
Why do I want something that doesn't actually exist so consumingly?
Why am I putting such unrealistic expectations on my future happiness?

There are so many aspects to my GD and so many causes for it from being left by my own mum to dealing with people's comments and expectations about my family make up and everything in between.
But I am honestly stumped why this has taken over my life, my experience as a mother and why I am letting something so insidious control me.
I have a long ways to go but one thing is certain I love my boys- not for their gender or because they fulfil some societal expectation but because they are mine, they are vulnerable they need their mum and I need them.

Big hugs to all the parents feeling any kind of GD its a b*%+#!

Perfectly written ! Exactly how I feel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk