TTC Girl after Two boys - with PCOS and short timeframe for prep!

[Taz]

Hi Atomic

I am hoping you can help me! I have been reading your threads for weeks now and taken in so much information and its all fascinating yet overwhelming!

I have two gorgeous boys and my last chance now to try get get a baby girl!

I am pre menstrual and hoping to start trying when I next ovulate as I have a 5 year age gap between my boys and as my youngest is already 3 I am not wanting another large gap so need to get knocked up asap!

I have PCOS - been plateaud at my current weight since june last year despite a healthy active lifestyle so I put it down to hormones. I have started the LE diet but struggling and think I am consuming too little calories in a day. I do no breakfast, greek yoghurt and berries or a salad for lunch and a salad with some brown rice for dinner. If I am peckish I have corn thin crackers and a smudge of peanut butter. I just dont know what else I could eat - I can't have much of bread and pasta due to it causing tummy issues.

I have been taking:
magnesium and calcium and cranberry
I take evening primrose oil for hormones - should I stop this?
I take metagenics Plift which I think contains vitex for my PCOS - should I stop this?


I have liquorice root on its way for hubby and I will get him on the cranberry too. He is very active but not really on LE diet.
I have replens, acigel to use after my period and I will use silk as lube.

I fell pregnant straight away with both boys - DS2 was with chinese meds and acupuncture to get regular. Hubby seems to be super fertile despite my bung ovaries!we are both 28

I get really confused on the timing and frequency thing! I have read all info on here but still left not knowing our best option. I initially thought DTD every day after period till a couple days prior to ovulation? Then I thought maybe abstaining till a couple days prior to O? is there a specific number here? can it be too long between times for this method? Is longer better? What would you suggest for us?

I would love any insight and advise. is there anything I am doing that needs to be changed? what method would you suggest to give us the best odds.

I only started the diet this week and did my first PH test today and came back at 5. I know we are going into this a little rushed and unprepared but I hadn't realised how much would go into it and I dont really want to wait too long in case it does take a while to conceive due to PCOS as I did have surgery on my ovaries last year so that may have changed things? that and the age gap issue. And I have finally got hubby on board and we dont want him backing out!

he was all excited at the thought of DTD everyday but Im sure I can talk him round if there are better options for us! I won't need persuading, especially as I won't be able to O :P

I hope thats all the info you need!

Thank you so much!

*Note I am now day 2 of my period as I wrote this last week.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi again Taz, thanks for reposting

I have two different versions of PCOS-friendly diet, either of which will be better for you than the really carby version of LE. You can find them in this thread. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

Is there any way to get Clomid or Femara? Those will be much better both for your sway and for your fertility challenges.

Do you find the EPO actually helps? If so, I'm willling to consider having you continue with the warning that this is a bit of an experiment. We used to use this for boy sways but I've noticed lately a lot of opposites with those taking it (so they swayed blue but got pink) and if you're already on it, and like it, I'm inclined to let you continue.

I would stop the cranberry as it hasn't worked for us and may not be safe. If you must continue with it, PLEASE stop it at ovulation since it may cause miscarriage

Calcium and magnesium at your discretion - did not work for me but hope you have better luck with them.

p-lift...I am not a fan of that because the b6 in it has seemed to make opposites for us.

Hubs does not neeed to do full LE Diet, if he's willing to come off meat that's great. Also you may want to give him soy milk 12-48 oz. a day starting right away and going thru BFP at which point he can just drop that.

The important thing with both timing and frequency is the ONE ATTEMPT. For reasons we can only guess at, one attempt in your fertile window O-3 thru O Day has been very strong pink swayer for us. Timing hasn't worked, frequency hasn't worked, so if you want to do those things that's fine, but you need to drop them (and the jellies, which also have not worked) BEFORE you start adding attempts.

I have an explanation about why I am not a fan of BD thru O in this thread, not the first post but a few posts down http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/58359-what-up-bd-thru-o-pink-lately.html

Re pH, I've seen so many pH testing opposites including my own it's really tough for me to believe that measuring it is really helping us at all. It is totally normal for people who are not around ovulation to have pH in the 4-5 range and it only matters what it is at ovulation anyway.

2 things I do want to mention for you to ponder: If hubby is not enthused then making him do a bunch of stuff for swaying can super backfire on ya. So if he wants to BD every day and all of a sudden you're saying abstain, this can be a disaster. So you may want to have him do daily release with protection (like a condom) and then have the one unprotected attempt, and go very easy on asking him to do things like give up meat and have the soy milk. What we do matters way more since we will carry the baby!

Secondly, I also want to mention that it's best not to go in expecting 'well, I'm probably infertile'. This idea undermines more sways!! People go in assuming it will be hard to get pregnant and thus are giving up on things fast, in a rush to TTC (12 weeks or longer on diet has had best results!!) and especially, especially important, are adding attempts almost right away when one attempt has been a pretty consistent pink swayer for us. So please don't go in with the mindset that this will be harder than it was when you got your boys, because it may not be. Give it a month or two with everything and then start dropping the things that don't work FIRST (timing, jelly, frequency, herbs, antihistamine) starting with what bugs you the most and only after you've dropped all those things should you start thinking about BD 5 times around O or whatever. We do have a couple other patterns of BD that we can also use if need be, but just be sure you don't immediately decide "well I obviously can't get pg with one attempt" and then start having 4 LOL. :)

[Taz]

Thank you so much for your reply.

first off I personally don't think I will have any fertility issues. I mentioned the PCOS incase there was any specific things I need to do. I am in touch with my cycles and 90% sure I am now ovulating each month with smaller and regular cycles. (I get terrible ovulation pain!) I dont think I need clomid etc ??

I am not too sure if the EPO helps with anything but i am regular now with 28ish day cycles compared to the 40-50 day cycles I was having and my pain issues have subsided so it could very well be the EPO helping?

I will be sticking with everything dont you worry, I attract those boy sperm like nobodies business and wanna do my best to get my baby girl this time- diet unfortunately I have more trouble sticking too which is why I am doing it now but also want to start trying asap as the diet is the complete opposite to what I usually eat like (obviously hello all the boy babies!) and I dont think I could do 12 weeks without any attempts to conceive. The age gap is also chewing at my ear as I need to get preggo ASAP and hoping it will be first time round like my boys were. But understand it may take a few months too.

I will get hubby on soy milk - is this to up his oestrogen?

I am all for the one off DTD. We dont get much time to be DTD all the time anyway at the moment so hubby shouldn't mind too much. although he was excited about 'trying' and getting in loads of attempts :P is there too long an abstinence here? lets just say its been a while already - should we do it as soon as my BFP is over and then wait till just before O or just wait till just before O with a long abstinence?

I will stop the Plift - I only started it a week ago in order to try help with symptoms so thats fine.

I read your post on exercise - I usually do weights 3 times a week and walk daily. I do moderate exercise at the gym. Should I stop all this in the lead up to trying to try and lose some muscle and drop some weight with the LE diet? Or should I drop the weights and keep up the walks?

Anything else I should think about? hot baths and showers etc?

Thanks so much....I am starting to get nervous now!

[atomic sagebrush]

Even if just the suspicion of PCO you need to be on that alternate diet. It works! Going on the standard LE Diet when you need to be on the alternate one will raise your blood sugar and testosterone and may sway blue.

Re Clomid - it's the best of the best pink sway there is. So sometimes if people can parlay a history of PCOS or other issues conceiving into a scrip for Clomid, I recommend giving it a try. If you'd prefer not to, no worries, just tossing it out there so you're aware of it.

12 weeks + does have best results but like you say, you never know, you may not get pg the first month or two. Up to you

Yes, that's what we ~think~ the soy milk does, but it's all just guessing and theorizing. We have seen good results with it not only on this site but also observationally (lots of vegan males have girls)

RE time to abstain, I like you guys to keep it to 7-10 days, no more than 14

Re when to attempt, it's up to you really. Since you're having a regular 28 day cycle you're prob. Oing on CD 14 so if you want timing then have attempt CD 11 or 12, if you don't care about timing, have that one attempt CD 13. Then, just in case you aren't Oing on CD 14, I'd have attempts every 4-5 days after that. This isn't totally necessary the first month or two but it does keep you in with a real attempt every month even if your O is delayed.

EPO - no EPO after ovulation in months you are TTC.

:agree: glad you've only been on Plift a short time

Drop the weights, keep the cardio (walking is fine) do NOT stop cardio even if you can't get up to the full amount that others do.

Hot bath or shower at your discretion, doubt it does much

Good luck!

[Taz]

I just went back and re read the diet for PCOS panicking that I have been doing it wrong and I think thats actually more like I was eating anyway as I avoid white breads and those sorts of carbs as they cause tummy issues.

So I have been fasting from dinner through to lunch. I have been having greek yoghurt with blueberries and sometimes a sprinkle of homemade muesli made with no sugar and wholegrain oats and nuts and seeds, loads of salads with hummus as a dressing and brown rice. veggie sticks and hummus. small amounts of chicken with salad for some dinners. after dinner treat (yoghurt and berries)

That sound about right? I have added some things to my shopping list now such as egg whites to mix things up again but my focus is loads of veg as my carb options.

I am off to the dr now to go try my luck with clomid - any suggestions with using this? Will it affect my timing etc that I currently have. My last period was 21-25 march and I ovulated 10th April with my period coming again on the 24th April. I think that actually makes my last cycle 35 days...the one prior was 29, prior to that 32 and before that 31. so It still isn't like clock work, but my symptoms help me figure out whats happening when.Should I be doing ovulation tests when we try? does Clomid mess with those results at all?

Thank you again. You are such a wealth of knowledge!!

I want to do the one attempt so just worried that I won't know my exact ovulation day in advance as I get a bit crampy but sometimes only get ovulation pain on O day and I would like to DTD 3 days prior to O for our first attempt. should I just be waiting for the first signs of O such as vague cramps....DTD then and keep track of actual O pain to make sure it wasn't too soon? GAHHHH so confusing? Or should I be temping to try pinpoint when to go about it?

Thank you again!

[Taz]

Just an update - I went to get Clomid today from my GP but got told they can't prescribe it, only via a specialist so I asked for a referral and she gave me one even though she was strongly against it and strongly against me going on any meds. I was hoping to use it after reading up about it but I will have to wait and see when the specialist can see me, I would say there would be a wait so I probably won't be able to get it in time to use this cycle. :(

[Taz]

Sorry Atomic - I know I am bombarding you with questions but its easier to get them all here now with the time difference so I hopefully wake up to replies!

Metformin? Something else I should look at? I have been at 72kgs (I'm 172cm tall) since June last year and have struggled to lose weight no matter what my attempts have been. I am fit and strong and healthy and hardly ever eat junk but the weight just stays the same and while the doc I just saw told me this is my weight and I shouldn't lose anything, I was at my healthiest when at 65kgs and hormones etc were all in order with acupuncture and chinese medicine before I conceived DS2....is this the insulin resistance keeping me at a plateau?

I want to be sure I have all the info I need if I manage to get in with the specialist asap!

If I can't get onto either Metformin or Clomid - Is there anything else I should be doing? I am starting to worry that the PCOS is not going to be doing me any favours in my girl sway!

Thanks again! and sorry for all the questions!

[atomic sagebrush]

Re diet - perfect!!! Sounds very much like the PCO-type diet.

Sorry to hear about the Clomid, doctors are very hit and miss with it. Some will just hand it over (even to people who don't need it!!) others will require your left arm and right leg even when it's medically indicated

Yes, Clomid would mess with when you ovulate in a rather unpredictable way so we'd do OPK and/or have regularly scheduled attempts every 4 days to make up for that.

I need to explain a bit about O pain. You actually can't tell on the basis of O pain when you ovulate. Timing is going to be difficult if not impossible for you to do with irregular cycles. If you really want to do timing, what you'll need to do (and this is true with or without Clomid) is get a fertility monitor like Ovacue or the CBFM and then BD on the second day of "high". Be aware though that you can have many days of high, or NO days of high and go right to "peak" fertility. So have a plan about what you want to do if that happens.

Re timing: Most of us on here, myself included, have 2-3-4 or more timing opposites. Timing has actually been fully debunked and you can read about that here. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html It's fine if you want to use it (although it will be more difficult for you, you can use the fertility monitor method if you want) but please don't get hung up on it, because it really does nothing to help you conceive.

[atomic sagebrush]

Metformin may help but if you can't get that, you may want to try myoinositol instead, it's like a "poor man's metformin" and has been an effective pink swayer for us (others, if you are reading this and now want to use myoinositol, it's only for those who have PCOS and/or trouble shifting weight, not for people who are already petite!! not for everyone!!)

We actually get quite stellar results with our PCOS swayers so hope is not lost. It may be even easier for you to send a signal to your body than it is for someone who has BMI of 17 and still has boys despite that :)

[Taz]

Hi Atomic

no luck first month of trying - I had gotten a referral to specialist from my gp when trying to get climid from her and the appointment was a month away - which was today. Turns out I'm likely not ovulating as my last 2 cycles were 34 days each so I have been prescribed clomid.

Can you please advise what you would be doing to sway pink. LE PCOS diet, clomid, one attempt after abstinence, soy for DH.

Anything else??? My diet has been shit - I dont know if it was hormones or what but sugar cravings hit hard and I got addicted to it again! I am cleaning up my diet again though as I know its really important.

Thanks again!

[atomic sagebrush]

Well...I don't think 2 cycles of 34 days bears out that you aren't ovulating at all but hey, if it got you the Clomid, excellent. :)

I would not have DH do abstain. It hasn't worked anyway and really cuts odds of conception. Let's have him do regular release every 2-4 days starting right away, and keep the one attempt for the first month.

Drop soy after next month if BFN.

[Taz]

Hi atomic

a quick update and some advice please!

So this is the 4th month of TTC pink and its my last round of clomid that I have before going back to the specialist.

my OPK changes every month which is confusing but has gone from only showing pos for 12 hours and then ovulation to this month where I am on day 3 now of pos OPK - We dtd at the first pos OPK as to not miss the window. Should we throw in another attempt tomorrow on day 4 regardless of OPK or not? I have a feeling I might ovulate today and have a temp rise tomorrow as my temp was still low this am and still showing pos OPK. I dont want to throw in another attempt too soon and run the risk of swaying blue.

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer!

[atomic sagebrush]

YES please have another attempt. The rules change after you've been on Clomid for a while. I also want you to continue having attempts every 4th day from here on in (so today if you didn't yesterday, and then again Thursday, and carry on with this until you get your next AF in case your ovulation is delayed longer than you realize.)

Next month, even if you don't get more Clomid, it does still sway pink the month after (via some mechanism that we do not even understand) and that month I want you to start having sex every 4th day starting after AF ends and continuing on till you're certain you have ovulated, even if it means going on till next AF starts!

We very well may just be missing O with one attempt. Let's start doing every 4th day attempts!

[Taz]

Thank you Atomic,

So I didn't manage to get in a second attempt - I ovulated before I got your reply. But after re looking at everything it wasn't too many days. Here is what happened.

Sat - neg OPK
Sun - 1am Pos OPK - DTD
Mon - 12 pos OPK, 10pm Neg OPK

So I must have ovulated Monday afternoon/evening. I was thinking it had been an extra day as the 1am time confused me and I was counting that as saturday at first.

So if this time doesn't work I will go with every 4 days next round. is there anything else we should be doing/not doing considering that it hasn't happened yet?

Also I haven't lost any weight. I have definitely lost muscle mass since stopping doing weights 3-4 months ago. I walk daily and have gone vegetarian/vegan(not strict) but I am not losing any weight. I have always struggled to get lower than the weight I currently am. I am 70kg last time I checked and 172cm tall.

Thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

Ladies, when in doubt, ATTEMPT. Do not ever wait for a reply from me because unless you're a custom swayer I cannot guarantee response within a day or two. only exception being if this is only your first month or two TTC, but when on fertility medication always err on the side of attempting.

You can't tell when you ovulated based on when your OPK go negative. That isn't how it works. The OPK actually tell you nothing directly about ovulation, they measure a hormone in your urine that signals your body to ovulate but the hormone is not directly correlated to anything happening to the egg. It's like if someone has a message and they can either tell the person right away and then leave, or stand there for 3 days saying the message again and again - either way the person got the message right at the start. Sometimes it just takes your body longer to clear that hormone from your system and that makes the test stay positive for longer.

Yes let's go to e4d now, are you doing anything else like jelly, j and d, or shallow release?? Or antihistamine? Anything for DH?

As long as you're walking it's all good. You may want to up protein to 50-60 g and fat to 50-60 g and cut refined carbs in favor of whole grains and fruit and veg.

[Taz]

Sorry I should have added that I knew I Od as I had a temp rise as well. I track everything so can usually tell which day it was so it was most likely monday at some point as I had the temp rise tues morning.

I take antihistamines for my hay fever if and when I need them. I didn't take them as regularly this cycle, especially over my fertile window but I did have a few.

I am doing shallow release and no O.

no more jellies

magnesium and folic acid

no breakfast

the only time I have ever been able to drop below this weight is when i had acupuncture to get pregnant with my last son. the weight fell off but I am leaving acupuncture as a last resort as the increased fertility will likely sway blue? This is my plateaud weight where I kinda stay stuck at no matter what.

Hubby has also gone vegetarian, other than that he's not doing anything. He exercises regularly and does a lot of weights too but he refuses to stop that. He trains at least once a day. Ive bought soy milk but he's not good at having that every day! we did a 6/7 day abstinence this cycle.

So can you please clarify with the frequency. every 4 days still gets only one attempt in the window is that right?

How many attempts starts to sway blue?

Thank you

[atomic sagebrush]

Ditch shallow release. It has never been proven to sway and is one thing I have seen again and again prohibiting conception for people.

Yes I'd not go the acupuncture route. I would still suggest upping protein and fat and switching to healthier carbs to see if it helps.

Most of our husbands would do nothing so if yours has gone veg, that's great.

Yes, e4d is still only one attempt in the fertile window really. The reason for this is because even in the worst case scenario of O-3 and O Day, if there's anything left from the earlier attempt, it will fertilize the egg before the O Day shot can capacitate and make it to the egg, and if there isn't, then the O Day shot will have a chance.

Our success rates used to have a clear demarcation between one attempt (70-75%) 2 attempts (60-65%) and three attempts (all the way down into the low 40's) As more people, including those who were not doing otherwise good sways, started doing the one attempt, its success has fallen into the high 60's, still better than 2 attempts but it's not as clear cut as it was. I still think one attempt is better than two, but this has gotten lost as more people have used it (which often happens). The important thing is, don't have three!

[Taz]

Hello Atomic - I just wanted to flick you a quick update to say that I am 8 weeks pregnant. that one attempt worked! Feeling like shit but happy to be pregnant. The anxiety over what the sex will be is always in the back of my mind but I am just trying to get through each day with feeling crap all day long. I forgot how tough the first few months are (a constant hangover!)

Anyway I just wanted to thank you for all your help and fingers crossed for a pink little bean in there!

[atomic sagebrush]

Huge congrats, Taz!! Ugh I know I think back sometimes on MS and wonder how I did that 5x. Hang in there!!

[Girlswaylondon]

First of all congrats!! Always love reading especially fellow pcosers get their bfp!!

Sorry to post bomb but your earlier post said your cycle was 35 days which means you wasn't ovulating, I'm confused my cycles are clock work 35 day cycles I thought I was still ovulating? I usually get pos opk day 19-22

[atomic sagebrush]

First of all congrats!! Always love reading especially fellow pcosers get their bfp!!

Sorry to post bomb but your earlier post said your cycle was 35 days which means you wasn't ovulating, I'm confused my cycles are clock work 35 day cycles I thought I was still ovulating? I usually get pos opk day 19-22

You're ovulating

[Girlswaylondon]

Thought it was bizarre for a doctor to say that!

[atomic sagebrush]

There are a few people who will get seemingly regular cycles with AF and pos OPK and are supposedly not ovulating. (I say supposedly because I have seen way more people told by doctors that they didn't ovulate because the doc did the ultrasound or bloodwork on the wrong day - and I mean WAYYYYY more like by a factor of 100x, only to end up getting a BFP that month so yeah, they did ovulate regardless of what the doc said)

The data indicates that 95% of everyone who is getting AF + regular cycles (or even CLOSE to regular, even every 2-3 months) is ovulating.