Losing faith

[onelastsway]

We've been on this journey since November although this is only actually our 5th month TTC. It is just not happening for us despite having the one well timed attempt each month. I am feeling so disheartened, I'm sick of the diet, sick of the exercise. The pressure is causing problems for my husband and so he is struggling to actually 'get there' - hence the one attempt each month and not E4D. I know my period is right around the corner (I knew I was pregnant with both boys as boobs massive and painful and nothing this month). My BMI is low BUT I am definitely ovulating, getting clear temp shift, high progesterone when tested. I just feel so down about it, the age gap is getting much bigger than we wanted and I just want to be pregnant now and back to my normal lifestyle.With both boys I got pregnant in the first month so have never experienced the pain of BFN month after month and it's horrible. I dropped J and D this month and had an orgasm but still nothing. What can I do? It's our last baby so really want best shot at girl, but don't know how much longer I can continue with all this.

[atomic sagebrush]

What you have to do is recast the number of months you have been trying in your mind. I know easy for me to say sitting here thousands of miles away but some of those months you did not have attempts and other months you were doing some things that probably lowered odds of conception. So try to think of this as a fresh start - this is the first month we are trying.

What I would do is add in either Preseed OR guanefesin. Not both. Pick one or the other - if you are really dry and sex is painful, Preseed would probably be the better option but guanefesin may help both during and after conception too in case your fluid inside your tubes and uterus is inhibiting conception somehow.

I know it is a challenge but we need more sex. I would be tempted to throw the playbook out the window, even if it ends up being e4d sometimes and e6d other days, that way if O is at all earlier or later at least you can luck your way into it. One attempt means we are literally putting all our eggs in one basket, and if anything goes wrong (like a smaller than normal batch, or hostile environment, or early/late O) then that's it, out for the month.

Keep going with no J and D and female O. Also, something I find coming up again and again is people keep doing shallow release!! No shallow release if you are doing that.

All herbs dropped, right? Even cinnamon and peppermint?

[onelastsway]

What you have to do is recast the number of months you have been trying in your mind. I know easy for me to say sitting here thousands of miles away but some of those months you did not have attempts and other months you were doing some things that probably lowered odds of conception. So try to think of this as a fresh start - this is the first month we are trying.

What I would do is add in either Preseed OR guanefesin. Not both. Pick one or the other - if you are really dry and sex is painful, Preseed would probably be the better option but guanefesin may help both during and after conception too in case your fluid inside your tubes and uterus is inhibiting conception somehow.

I know it is a challenge but we need more sex. I would be tempted to throw the playbook out the window, even if it ends up being e4d sometimes and e6d other days, that way if O is at all earlier or later at least you can luck your way into it. One attempt means we are literally putting all our eggs in one basket, and if anything goes wrong (like a smaller than normal batch, or hostile environment, or early/late O) then that's it, out for the month.

Keep going with no J and D and female O. Also, something I find coming up again and again is people keep doing shallow release!! No shallow release if you are doing that.

All herbs dropped, right? Even cinnamon and peppermint?

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I agree with the more sex - that's what I said to my husband. We were doing release outside the body except our one attempt. He doesn't struggle with the other attempts - it's simply the pressure getting to him on the 'big attempt' so I think we will do E4d if possible and I will just not tell him when it is the one in the fertile period and hope that helps! No herbs for me - he is on OLE but I think that's good for sperm health - am I right? I do have some EWCM - nothing like what I had with the boys but still definitely there. Not doing shallow release.

Will try to think positive as I agree - many of those attempts were not very good attempts due to J and D, timing being off, delayed ovulation maybe being poorer quality egg, after an abstain so sperm quality not so good.

Thanks for the advice!

[Shannshaff]

((HUGS)) I know how hard it can be. It has taken me 8-12 month when we were TTC #3 and I was getting discouraged with everything. Hang in there. I agree that it sounds like you just need to have more sex to up the odds and to help DH relax. I would definitely not tell him when you are Oing since it seems to cause him some stress.
Atomic has wonderful advise for you. I just wanted to give you a hug and let you know you can do it!!!

[lovepink13]

I am right there with you. We are going on month 4 of trying and my son happened on the first try. I am really starting to get discouraged and have considered dropping swaying because now I just want a baby. Despite my husband being out of town, my one attempt each month has been 0-4, 0-1, and 0-3. I decided to keep up with the diet and drop all the other things that may be making it harder to have a baby (J&D, hot bath right before, etc) and if still nothing in 2-3 months I will probably just go back to my regular diet and hope for the best. As long as I don't O early this month my husband should be home that day so we will see how it goes.

Hope this happens for you soon too.

[onelastsway]

Thank you both for your replies. I think the one good thing is now I will just be happy to get pregnant if I do and much less panicky about the gender. At the beginning, I was always freaking out in the TWW incase I was pregnant and hadn't done enough. Now I would be over the moon to be pregnant and would have no regrets - I know I've done everything I possibly can so I'm happy with that. I'll give it a couple more months and then decide whether to start adding attempts or changing diet.

[atomic sagebrush]

Perfect. Yes that is exactly what has worked for other people in this situation - less info LOL

OLE is supposed to be good for sperm health, eventually we may want to drop it just in case it's doing something we are unaware of. (so much of these things are barely tested)

[atomic sagebrush]

I am right there with you. We are going on month 4 of trying and my son happened on the first try. I am really starting to get discouraged and have considered dropping swaying because now I just want a baby. Despite my husband being out of town, my one attempt each month has been 0-4, 0-1, and 0-3. I decided to keep up with the diet and drop all the other things that may be making it harder to have a baby (J&D, hot bath right before, etc) and if still nothing in 2-3 months I will probably just go back to my regular diet and hope for the best. As long as I don't O early this month my husband should be home that day so we will see how it goes.

Hope this happens for you soon too.

Ok I hate reading things like this, ladies. There is TONS of wiggle room between giving up totally and relaxing a sway.

Yes, drop all those things that don't work like frequency, herbs, jellies, douching, J and D, hot bath/tighty whites, and especially shallow release.

But when it comes to diet, you can relax on diet without throwing it all out. Just start eating a little more, cheating a little more, increasing the limits just a little to make it all easier to stick to. LE Diet is not like the other sway diets where supposedly if you don't do everything it completely undoes it all. LE only gets more effective over time so over time it is ok to start relaxing not only to make it easier on yourself but also to ensure that your body feels comfy continuing ovulating and getting/staying pregnant.

[onelastsway]

So here we are at 10dpo - temp drop and the spotting begins...and I know in my heart that something is not right with my cycle. I've never had spotting before I started the diet. I was having a very gradual temp rise after ov but now i do have a good temp shift and my progesterone measured fine when tested so I'm sure I am ovulating, and I also have a very strong suspicion that the egg is being fertilised - I'm nearly 100% sure the problem is with implantation and my progesterone falling off too soon. Often I get a temp drop and spotting at 9/10 dpo then a couple of days temp rise whilst spotting then AF finally arrives. So my question is: how do I sort out this problem? I do not believe we are going to get pregnant until I do. My BMI is 18 but I am ovulating so could this low weight still be causing the short LP even though I am ovulating? Could it be weak ovulation but then would I get such a strong temp shift? I am scared to put on weight and sway blue. Is there anything I can demand from my doctor to help? Really down.

[atomic sagebrush]

See, here's the thing though. I talk to a lot of people who say exactly the same kinds of things you're saying and then they DO get pregnant. I just really, really don't want you to let this mess with your head because what happens is then you end up so convinced you have some bigger issue going on that you throw out the baby with the bathwater and end up swaying blue and have another boy.

To answer your question, yes, your low weight can be causing problems with your cycle. What it looks like to me is not progesterone though. It is estrogen. At about 7 DPO you are supposed to release a burst of estrogen that maintains your cycle longer than prog. by itself can. So if you're not eating enough (particularly of animal fats and calories) and your weight is too low (since your fat cells themselves make estrogen in addition to the fats you get via diet) then that process gets messed up and your cycle gets shorter. your prog comes back totally normal in this scenario because it isn't progesterone, it isn't "weak ovulation" or whatever, it's a lack of estrogen.

The cure for this is luckily the same as for low progesterone - 1 serv. full fat dairy a day, 4-6 eggs a week, 1 serv. salmon if you like it, red meat if you don't. But since this is an ongoing problem and you are below my cutoff, I'd like you to increase this to 2 serv. dairy, 6 eggs a week, and 2 serv. salmon and/or red meat per week. (I mean 2 servings total, mix and match them as u please)

I think I already had you dropping fiber but if you haven't, drop fiber and do not resume it.

Did I have you on any extra vitamins since you've been on diet for so long?

[onelastsway]

See, here's the thing though. I talk to a lot of people who say exactly the same kinds of things you're saying and then they DO get pregnant. I just really, really don't want you to let this mess with your head because what happens is then you end up so convinced you have some bigger issue going on that you throw out the baby with the bathwater and end up swaying blue and have another boy.

To answer your question, yes, your low weight can be causing problems with your cycle. What it looks like to me is not progesterone though. It is estrogen. At about 7 DPO you are supposed to release a burst of estrogen that maintains your cycle longer than prog. by itself can. So if you're not eating enough (particularly of animal fats and calories) and your weight is too low (since your fat cells themselves make estrogen in addition to the fats you get via diet) then that process gets messed up and your cycle gets shorter. your prog comes back totally normal in this scenario because it isn't progesterone, it isn't "weak ovulation" or whatever, it's a lack of estrogen.

The cure for this is luckily the same as for low progesterone - 1 serv. full fat dairy a day, 4-6 eggs a week, 1 serv. salmon if you like it, red meat if you don't. But since this is an ongoing problem and you are below my cutoff, I'd like you to increase this to 2 serv. dairy, 6 eggs a week, and 2 serv. salmon and/or red meat per week. (I mean 2 servings total, mix and match them as u please)

I think I already had you dropping fiber but if you haven't, drop fiber and do not resume it.

Did I have you on any extra vitamins since you've been on diet for so long?

I'm not taking any vitamins - just folic acid. I have been having about 3 eggs a week, some full fat dairy each day and 1 serving of salmon a week. I will up this and hope it helps. Just had a huge treat meal too, as just really needed it tonight. I'm really not eating that little (although a lot less than I used to) but just think I must have very fast metabolism so struggle to keep the weight on hence the fact I used to have to eat every couple of hours to stop myself feeling faint! I'll try not to panic - I think it must be due to the low weight as never had these spotting, weird cycle problems before. Thank you so much. Wasn't taking fibre anyway. So you don't think I need to go back to the doctor? Really don't want to sway boy after everything I've put into this so don't want to make drastic changes, but do want to get pregnant.

[atomic sagebrush]

Doctors are not very helpful, usually. Up to you, but I suspect their advice will be "gain weight."

Re vitamins, let's add in iron 18-30 mg 3x a week, zinc 8-15 mg 3xa week, and unless you have thyroid problems 150 IU iodine daily. These are mandatory. You can also add in the lowest dose B12 and D 2x a week if you want to, but you don't have to do this (yet) provided you add in the eggs and dairy.

I know it feels scary to make these changes but what happens all too often is that swayers will resist every change, continuing on at a low weight, their cycle going wack, etc etc etc and won't change anything. Then all of a sudden you will find you've had enough and then give up EVERYTHING and end up swaying blue in a mad rush just to get pregnant. So PLEASE make the little changes over time instead of resisting everything and then suddenly giving up and doing a 180 degree turn in a panic you can't get pregnant!

[onelastsway]

Doctors are not very helpful, usually. Up to you, but I suspect their advice will be "gain weight."

Re vitamins, let's add in iron 18-30 mg 3x a week, zinc 8-15 mg 3xa week, and unless you have thyroid problems 150 IU iodine daily. These are mandatory. You can also add in the lowest dose B12 and D 2x a week if you want to, but you don't have to do this (yet) provided you add in the eggs and dairy.

I know it feels scary to make these changes but what happens all too often is that swayers will resist every change, continuing on at a low weight, their cycle going wack, etc etc etc and won't change anything. Then all of a sudden you will find you've had enough and then give up EVERYTHING and end up swaying blue in a mad rush just to get pregnant. So PLEASE make the little changes over time instead of resisting everything and then suddenly giving up and doing a 180 degree turn in a panic you can't get pregnant!

Thank you so much for this. Been busy with my youngest son's birthday but will get my hands on some vitamins. The doc was useless - said my progesterone was perfect and that the luteal phase wasn't an issue and that perhaps I was ovulating earlier than I thought from charting and that I need to be getting attempts in earlier (I didn't say we were going for one attempt obviously). Also thinks we should test hubby's sperm (which he is not keen to do!) We'll give it another couple of months and see how we go. At the moment focussing on trying to relax hubby and ease his performance anxiety so that we can actually achieve E4D!! Fingers crossed this will be our month.

[atomic sagebrush]

Fingers and toes crossed too!

For reasons I don't fully understand, some docs are just so unhelpful it's like pulling teeth. But yes I think we need the earlier and more attempts as we talked about already.

Tons of men won't do the SA so if he won't do it, don't worry, the docs hear that all the time.

[honeybee37]

Aww I know how hard that situation is. Swaying and TTC in general can really take over your thoughts and life in general. Try to discount the months where hinge went wrong and then if you're maybe on 3 or so months when you could have got pregnant, well that's pretty normal? I started swaying in Nov 2015 but ended up doing the LE diet waaaaaaay too strictly and basically made myself infertile! I followed Atomic's advice and added in some full fat dairy and basically was a lot less strict on the diet, which sorted out the length of my luteal phase.

Then I had a miscarriage at ten weeks last November, and am now 17 eeeks pregnant. I am thinking about whether we could go through this journey again as I have strong suspicions this baby is another boy... not sure I can face doing it all again, but we will see! Good luck and I hope you conceive soon x

[onelastsway]

So, another month with no results. Luteal phase seems better this month at 11 days with no spotting. We did E4D this month but still no luck. I didn't get chance to get the vitamins last month so am going tomorrow - can I just ask what the iron, zinc and iodine do? - is it just to make sure the body can build a strong enough lining to implant as I seem to be ovulating OK? Getting seriously fed up with BFN's now so am happy to follow any advice you give just wanting to understand it. Should I add attempts or just stick to E4D this month? Anything else I should change? Thanks as always for your help!

[atomic sagebrush]

We're not totally sure how it all works, but your body will sometimes "get nervous" about not having enough nutrients coming in and takes steps to actually keep you from getting pregnant (some of these things we know about, others no one understands yet). Since iron, zinc, and iodine are the most likely nutrients to be in short supply on LE Diet, that is what I have people add in. Sometimes I have people add in Vitamin D and B12 but only if they have reason to believe they are deficient in it. If you wanted to you could also try the lowest dose D and B12 you could find, either 1 or 2 times a week. Totally at your discretion.

Whether or not to add attempts is up to you. That is one of those things I honestly can't tell people (and never would want to) since it's such an individualized decision to make. If you want best chance of pink, keep going with e4d another month or two and let the supplements possibly do their job. If you want better chance of conception, then add an attempt at positive OPK or go to e3d, whichever you think will work better for you.

Are you doing Preseed, or guanefesin, or female O?

[onelastsway]

We're not totally sure how it all works, but your body will sometimes "get nervous" about not having enough nutrients coming in and takes steps to actually keep you from getting pregnant (some of these things we know about, others no one understands yet). Since iron, zinc, and iodine are the most likely nutrients to be in short supply on LE Diet, that is what I have people add in. Sometimes I have people add in Vitamin D and B12 but only if they have reason to believe they are deficient in it. If you wanted to you could also try the lowest dose D and B12 you could find, either 1 or 2 times a week. Totally at your discretion.

Whether or not to add attempts is up to you. That is one of those things I honestly can't tell people (and never would want to) since it's such an individualized decision to make. If you want best chance of pink, keep going with e4d another month or two and let the supplements possibly do their job. If you want better chance of conception, then add an attempt at positive OPK or go to e3d, whichever you think will work better for you.

Are you doing Preseed, or guanefesin, or female O?

Thank you - that makes total sense. I've always had on and off problems with low iron and had to have B12 injections about a year ago but last time they checked (a few months back now) - B12 was OK. I'll start with the iron, iodine and zinc and see how that goes. We will continue with E4D - we are doing the mon, thurs, sun etc version so a bit higher odds of conception anyway. Have relaxed the diet a bit too and think I'll stop temping as I find that adds stress about when i'm ovulating. Going to TRY to just relax, enjoy my boys, stop worrying about the ever increasing age gap, and have a 'what will be will be' attitude but hard when you want something so much.

Not added the preseed/guanefesin as i do have some EWCM still (nowhere near as much as i did)but did do female O most attempts!

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok. I think we are on the right track and now while I know it's difficult, just try to remember that some months just aren't THE month - it doens't always mean you haven't "fixed" things, it may mean that you have and it just still wasn't the right month for the right sperm to meet the right egg. :heart:

[onelastsway]

Thank you. I'll keep you posted!