Long time trawler, first time poster! TTC girl, please help!

[Made2Mumma]

Hi everyone!

I have spent a number of months on and off researching my girl gender sway. I have 2 beautiful boys and have convinced dh to try for a third, October will be our first attempt.

I've found a lot of information, studies, methods etc very contradictory, however the resounding figure that seems to be achieved across the board is between 65-75% success for active swayers. So I have based my plan on what I did with my boys. Both were not planned, on low magnesium (I'm extremely deficient) and low dairy. Both conceived on or very very close to ovulation. I would have had only 1-2 days between attempts, ds2 was everyday. Both in a full moon. Low caffeine, low alcohol, no folic acid, no multivitamins, not overly high in salt and potassium, higher in sugar, not much if any exercise.

So all that being said, I'm thinking of trying the FGD, 4 day cutoff, one attempt, j+d. Magnesium powder, calcium supplements, folic acid, aspirin, antihistamines(will be spring so will be on them anyway!) and peppermint tea.
I'm thinking of taking up cardio based exercise, but I do need to be careful, especially on this diet as I am very slim/naturally underweight even despite a fairly full fat diet (not junk food)
I will also try to take into account the moon cycles, biorhythms, lunar cycles, positive ions, and a few old wives tails.

Any tips or hints for me? Sorry for long post, I'm just desperate to get this right as this will most likely be our last attempt. I can talk DH into just about anything as he is very open minded, so any tips for him would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

[Throwaway_panther]

If you're following the FGD, you're not doing the swaying advocated by this site. Same with biorhythms, moon signs and all of that scientifically disproven stuff.

Read about this forum's LE diet. I personally followed it before knowing about swaying and got a girl.

[MiaMelb]

Hi and welcome fellow Aussie.

I can understand the desperation to get this 'right'. I've been researching sway stuff for almost a year and won't even ttc til first part of next year.

I'm not a girl swayer obviously so some of the specifics will escape me but it does seem like you're using some strategies promoted by some of the old school swaying sites, many of which are quite different from what most women do here. Many women here are seasoned swayers and have moved away from things like the FGD, Mg/Ca, long cutoffs, ions, moon phases etc. Most pink swayers here are following the LE diet and having one attempt at +opk. It is however "your sway your way" round here so if there are strategies you're passionate about that's your choice.

There will obviously be more pink swayers dropping past to give you their opinions on the specifics. GL

[Made2Mumma]

Yes I did notice that, and I have read about it, including the studies related to it, and I'm not closed off to the idea. My only concern was that diet is low in magnesium and calcium and that was the diet I was on when my boys were conceived. Also I am worried about weight loss with that diet. I just thought maybe it wouldn't be affective for me, but I could be wrong.

[Made2Mumma]

It can be so confusing, and your right, I'm very desperate to get it right! If I'm honest, I will be totally devastated if this doesn't work. However, my ds2 was born with a birth defect, so health is my number one concern.

I'll keep looking into that diet, and hopefully will receive some more information from other pink swayers!

[cosmosis]

Magnesium and Calcium are not the only minerals in the world. Most people are very deficient in magnesium and don't realize and and plenty go on to have boys, so magnesium alone won't play a factor. It is your overall health that plays a factor as well as the frequency of intercourse. There may have been things you were unknowingly doing that were improving your health at that time.

Basically, improvement in health and fertility sways blue and a decline in health and fertility sways pink. There is no way that the body would interpret supplementation as a decline in health unless it was toxic doses :)

My two cents. Best of luck!

[Made2Mumma]

Ok, thank you for your input! So basically the suggestion is to follow Le diet, and avoid the supplementation, perhaps focus more on my other sway elements like timing, ph altering etc?

[Pbn3]

Made2mumma if you dont have the weight to lose the you need to just try and maintain. You'll likely need to do the upper limits of the LE diet order to do so, especially if you will be doing the cardio (not sure being naturally underwieght that cardio is for you [emoji53]) I would never recommend a 4 day cut off - your odds of conceiving from that are slim at best. What's getting results is LE diet for 12+ weeks prior to conceiving and one attempt (usually done at pos opk). Other strong tactics are the cardio and clomid or femara if you can get it. Stay away from aspirin unless your taking it for medical reasons. The magnesium, calcium and peppermint tea Atomic will advise on. Moon cycles and other owt's are up to you but I wouldn't be skipping a cycle based on any of these. Something will always line up when something else doesn't if you get what I mean....

Can you provide a bit more info as in your current weight and bmi for when atomic answers.

Good luck! All the best!


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[MiaMelb]

Ok, thank you for your input! So basically the suggestion is to follow Le diet, and avoid the supplementation, perhaps focus more on my other sway elements like timing, ph altering etc?

You are more than welcome to look at the pH and timing options but our results have shown they aren't helpful. Timing has been totally debunked (same number of girls and boys are concieved each day of fertile window) so if you can let go of that idea it removes some stress. Many experienced swayers have given up on the pH stuff after seeing so many pH opposites. Many of the pH things can also hinder conception so better chances of getting pregnant if you can let that go too. Our results show that one attempt in the fertile window (irrespective of the actual day relative to O) does sway pink.

[Made2Mumma]

Thank you for your respone! My weight is 48kg and bmi is 17.8.

So basically everything I'm thinking is wrong lol, good thing im here I think!
I have been looking at the spreadsheets and have taken most of my cues from what induvdual factors caused a higher success rate for others. I know some of the sample sizes aren't big so perhaps not as accurate to base my attempt on.
I guess my main concern is that I really wanted to feel like I was doing something different then what I have done in the past. And conceiving closely around ovulation and the Le diet wouldn't be that much of a change. Are the other elements enough to sway confidently? Obviously I wasn't doing any of these other factors then. Naturally I'm a pretty fertile person, from a very fertile family, so I assume I am swayed to blue!

So are you suggesting that I do cardio or that I shouldn't?
Should I be drinking coffee or alcohol? If so, how much?

I appreciate everyone's help so far, it's so much information to get your head around, and I feel so much pressure to get it right!

[Pbn3]

Made2mumma I got the impression from your first post that you had multiple attempts with your boys? The one attempt has been a strong sway tactic when combined with the LE diet :) By all means include some other tactics as well, increased caffiene (2-3 coffees daily), alcohol, j&d etc as they are things you can drop first as time goes on. If its preferable than one attempt at pos opk you could consider doing e4d? That gives you one attempt and gives you a chance of either a 4-o plus o day, 3-o, 2-o or 1-o attempt. Might take the stress out of knowing how close to o your one attempt is and gives you a good shot of a 2-o or longer cutoff.....

With the cardio I would think your weight and bmi would be too low to include it [emoji848] however Atomic is the lady that will advise yay or nay and why :)

How are your cycles? Are they fairly regular? Usual length? Just wondering basically if your weight has had any effect in it or do you seem to be ovulating as normal?

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[Made2Mumma]

Yes, sorry, i did have multiple attempts, a few days apart, however both pregnancies were unplanned and the attempts were not actual attempts, broken condom, withdrawal etc. the main 'mistakes' were made on ovulation day, so I figured they must have been conceived that day is all!
I was originally drawn to the o-4 (is that the same as e4d? Sorry still getting used to the acronyms!) Is that better than 14 days in a row with j&d in your opinion?
Yes my cycles are very regular 28days, I stopped breastfeeding a few months back and they have now returned to normal. I don't think my ovulation is affected, as the usual signs are present at the 14/15 day mark. I will start charting my bbt to get a definite on that though!
In regards to the cardio, although slim, I am quite unfit so not sure if this makes any impact on a recommendation?

[Pbn3]

E4d means dtd every four days so for example cd8, cd12, cd16, cd20 etc which gives you one attempt in fertile window. Even with charting and getting an indication of when o 'usually' happens wont gaurantee you'll o on those same cycle days when it comes time to ttc. That's when cycles usually go haywire on us [emoji23] hence the recommendation for one attempt at pos opk OR e4d. I cant see there's any way you'll nail a 4-o attempt except with pure luck unfortunately and again chances of conceiving are slim with that attempt (but has and does happen). By all means though give it your best shot for first cycle ttc if that's what you're drawn too. Maybe do the temping over the next few cycles to hopefully pinpoint o to a couple days and then aim for an attempt 3 days prior to the earliest o day recorded. Not at all saying that will work (it likely wont) but if your really wanting to try for the long cutoff it gives you some chance of achieving it. The downside is there's no gaurantee your body wont decide to o early and you end up with a 2-o or closer attempt.... Avoid bding for 14 days followed up with a j&d. It's very unlikely that 14 days in a row is even possible plus dh would have nothing left in the tank sperm wise by then so to speak so a j&d would be irrelevant. Atomic will advise if she thinks hubby should do frequent release with you or without you (protected until actual attempt if with you) and for how many days etc prior.

The recommendation used to be either 1 hour cardio (no less) 6-7 times per week or no exercise at all. Being unfit should fit in with your pink sway in the way of no exercise. It's moderate exercise that sways blue so I'm thinking you're better off avoiding it all together. Again though, wait for Atomics advice :) She will respond to your thread but give her a few days to do so.

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[Made2Mumma]

Ok fantastic, you've been very helpful, thank you so much!
Haha I think it would be as much of a test for me 14 days in a row no O! Sounds like a pretty great time...
I look forward to hearing from atomic for some more clarification, and will definitely consider e4d, I might be more comfortable with that idea, but like I said, I'm not closed off to any suggestions.
I guess I do low intensity light/moderate exercise now, running around after kids, housework, walks etc I'm a sahm, so am on my feet most of the day.

[Pbn3]

No worries [emoji3] and sorry, just to clarify moderate exercise I mean like brisk walking for 30-45mins, weight lifting, aerobics class that's 30-45 mins etc 3-4 times'ish a week :)

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[Made2Mumma]

Oh ok, definitely no exercise class, but brisk walk a couple times a week!

[Pbn3]

You want to avoid moderate exercise like those listed above so if you're walking a couple times a week then I'd stop. Moderate exercise sways 'blue'. Sorry I think our wires got a bit crossed there [emoji38]

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[Made2Mumma]

Haha no I understand! I was saying I do a few brisk walks currently, so I suppose moving forward I either need to give it up all together (boys won't be happy!) or ramp it right up, pending advice!

[Pbn3]

[emoji106][emoji108] spot on [emoji3]

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[atomic sagebrush]

You are always welcome to follow whatever sway tactics you would like BUT I would like to toss out a few caveats:

1)One attempt has been a huge pink sway for us so it sounds like that one thing will be a big change. I really want to stress to you that timing has NOT worked, number of attempts has, so please err on the side of conceiving with one attempt instead of slavishly sticking to Shettles, which about 90% of us on here have timing opposites.

2)In light of that, I cannot ever recommend anyone do a 4 day cutoff. The odds of concepiton are vanishingly small with a 4 day cutoff (especially when swaying using other methods that also cut odds of conception) so I would suggest moving that a day closer for 3 day cutoff at the longest and ditching cutoff BEFORE adding attempts. Also, doing a J and D plus a 4 day cutoff - you may as well take a birth control pill as try that. You're not going to get pregnant.

3)Aspirin has not worked and had many risks and side effects that were considerable (for both you and unborn baby). I am rarely using it any more (except for those who insist upon it or who are using it under the advice of a doctor)

4)Antihistamines have also not worked, same % of people getting girls with and without them, and cut odds of conception considerably. If you are using them anyway that's one thing, but especially when using a cutoff you will lower your odds of BFP hugely for something that is doing nothing to assist sways.

5) Peppermint tea, again, not effective for us and has cut odds of conception significantly and also made people's cycles go crazy, delaying ovulation and making LP become short.

6)Biorhythms were invented by a mental patient based on the idea that all women have 28 day cycles (they don't) and have been debunked in over 134 studies. Moon cycles and ions make no biological sense. People think they work because there is a 3 day window that you can change around till the gender of your baby comes out right and I've seen people do this trick with my own two eyes. Use at your own peril because people should NOT be skipping months while swaying especially when they have little to no weight to spare.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say 65-75% - are you saying that this is too low for you and so you're going to do the opposite of what you did when you got boys instead, in hopes of getting better than 75%? Because swaying cannot ever BE 100% and if 75% is a disappointment (keeping in mind that many of us are probably coming into a sway 75% "set" for boys!!) I think you need to take a step back because it just doesn't seem possible to get better results than about 75% (80% may be a theoretical upper window, but real life stuff gets in the way of that.) There's just always going to be a huge luck factor involved or the whole human race would have died out a long time ago - first time there was a famine and no boys were conceived. So if you're ok with 65-75% possible success rates, great, please do what has worked for most peopel, most of the time. If that is too disappointing then please consider HT because that's the only way we can seem to get better than 75% max (unfortunate truth. :/)

[atomic sagebrush]

Haha no I understand! I was saying I do a few brisk walks currently, so I suppose moving forward I either need to give it up all together (boys won't be happy!) or ramp it right up, pending advice!

While originally I was having people stop exercise if they couldn't get the 60 6-7 recommendation, it has been SO effective that now I think it's best to continue even if you can only get up to 4-5 days a week. (60 min is ideal tho)

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, sorry, i did have multiple attempts, a few days apart, however both pregnancies were unplanned and the attempts were not actual attempts, broken condom, withdrawal etc. the main 'mistakes' were made on ovulation day, so I figured they must have been conceived that day is all!
I was originally drawn to the o-4 (is that the same as e4d? Sorry still getting used to the acronyms!) Is that better than 14 days in a row with j&d in your opinion?
Yes my cycles are very regular 28days, I stopped breastfeeding a few months back and they have now returned to normal. I don't think my ovulation is affected, as the usual signs are present at the 14/15 day mark. I will start charting my bbt to get a definite on that though!
In regards to the cardio, although slim, I am quite unfit so not sure if this makes any impact on a recommendation?

O-4 is a timing method where you have ONE attempt 4 days before you expect to O. Very low odds of conception when done properly and it is VERY easy to get wrong since people can and do ovulate sooner than they think they will all the time.

E4d is having unprotected sex every 4ish days and so ensuring you have only one viable attempt in the fertile window wihtout having to mess around with OPK and stuff.

[atomic sagebrush]

Since you're low weight, when you start the exercise please start off eating upper levels of LE Diet (1800-2000) and even increase if weight flies off. The exercise is appearing to outweigh the need for increased calories provided you still keep protein and fat on the lower side and get most of your pro/fat calories from vegetable sources instead of animal.

[atomic sagebrush]

You are more than welcome to look at the pH and timing options but our results have shown they aren't helpful. Timing has been totally debunked (same number of girls and boys are concieved each day of fertile window) so if you can let go of that idea it removes some stress. Many experienced swayers have given up on the pH stuff after seeing so many pH opposites. Many of the pH things can also hinder conception so better chances of getting pregnant if you can let that go too. Our results show that one attempt in the fertile window (irrespective of the actual day relative to O) does sway pink.

:agree: Yes this exactly!! So many of us, myself very much included, came to this site with 2 or more failed sways under our belts, having done all the timing and pH stuff to the max and only getting more of the gender we already have. I know it's very hard to give up on some of this stuff before you've tried it, but sometimes it is hard for us to watch others go down the road we already tried and did not work for us!!

I have a couple long posts about pH http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/11684-ph-pickle.html and timing http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html that have the full case against them.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you for your respone! My weight is 48kg and bmi is 17.8.

So basically everything I'm thinking is wrong lol, good thing im here I think!
I have been looking at the spreadsheets and have taken most of my cues from what induvdual factors caused a higher success rate for others. I know some of the sample sizes aren't big so perhaps not as accurate to base my attempt on.
I guess my main concern is that I really wanted to feel like I was doing something different then what I have done in the past. And conceiving closely around ovulation and the Le diet wouldn't be that much of a change. Are the other elements enough to sway confidently? Obviously I wasn't doing any of these other factors then. Naturally I'm a pretty fertile person, from a very fertile family, so I assume I am swayed to blue!

So are you suggesting that I do cardio or that I shouldn't?
Should I be drinking coffee or alcohol? If so, how much?

I appreciate everyone's help so far, it's so much information to get your head around, and I feel so much pressure to get it right!

Do proceed with caution because firstly not all sway tactics are right for everyone (and some of them would be a DISASTER given your weight as they are designed for people with PCOS/IR and you'd lose tons of weight if you tried them) and secondly, some of our stats are misleading for other reasons which I go into in this thread http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/43555-thoughts-stats.html

The thing with doing the opposite is this - you only want to do the opposite on the things that were swaying blue for you!!! It is entirely possible that many of the things you are thinking of were either neutral or possibly even swaying PINK! I can't even tell you the number of people who think they have to "do the opposite" and make changes in things that only sway MORE blue than when they got pregnant with their sons. To illustrate, imagine that your lifestyle before took you from being (hypothetically) 80% likely to conceive a boy, to 60% likely to conceive a boy (because you were doing some things that swayed pink in addition to other things that swayed blue). You don't want to then turn around and "do the opposite" on the things that were already swaying pink for you!! That would only make you MORE blue friendly, even if you changed other things at the same time. So you need to change the things that need to be changed and let go of the things that were neutral or even swaying pink.

Yes do cardio if you possibly can and increase calories at the same time to prevent weight loss.
Coffee and alcohol both gotten good results, just use slightly more than you do normally. There's no set amount, and it is likely that people who never use it only need a little, and people who use some may need to up it just a hair more.

Hope this all makes sense, I covered a lot of ground here so please let me know if anything is less than clear.

[Made2Mumma]

Hi atomic,

Thank you so much for taking the time, it is greatly appreciated!
I do have a few points to clarify. I am more than happy to stick to the one attempt and let go of the stress of timing, would you recommend a CFR? Or a J&D with this one attempt?
Do you think October (I'll ovulate around the 20th) would be too soon to make an attempt, given the time needed for diet to be affective, folic acid supplements etc?
I'm not surprised you said biorhythms were created by a crazy person, my husband would certainly say that's a good fit for me ATM and I can't disagree lol
I wasn't going to base my attempt strongly on those factors anyway, and it certainly wouldn't prevent me making an attempt on any given month! It was just something I came across that I found interesting.
No I definitely wasn't saying that 65-70% is too low! Mostly I was just saying that that's the figure I noticed most active swayers achieve. Really I would Be thrilled if I could give myself a 70% chance, and just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to put it in that ballpark!
Happy to do exercise as this is something very different from when I had my boys. I will compensate my intake accordingly. However I've been on 1600 calories for a few days, and I even find that figure a bit tricky to reach. So I think that perhaps my intake requirements aren't really all that high anyway.
Good to hear about the ph, because it really wasn't something I wasnt all that happy to do, for effort level and risk of infection both!
I've seen in the last you not recommending myo insitol for non pcos swayers, is this still your stance? I have read it's good for girl swaying and from what I seen quite safe, even helping with gestational diabetes, but I'm not sure if it would be right for me.
Finally, Do you have any information/experience on thyroid meds with this approach? I am on a very low dose of thyroxine 25mcg. I was not on this medication with my boys, it developed during my last pregnancy. I will definitely chat to my doctor too, but thought you may have some insight?

Thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

I never recommend CFR. Most of the people in our stats who say they did CFR did not actually do CFR and I believe the sole reason it looks effective is because it's always done with one attempt. 90% of the people who tried CFR failed to do it right or couldn't get pregnant while doing it because when done properly it lowers odds of conception by a lot and actually makes it impossible for many men to "complete the transaction" either unable to get an erection or to ejaculate. Plus it really has caused a massive amount of stress and tension between couples and if he's not totally on board I'd skip it anyway.

J and D has seemed to add something in our results so I'd start off with a J and D after 5 minutes.

Ok I gotcha (both on biorhythms and on success rates). I have a fair number of people who really do plan to skip months (had one woman who was going to only try 2 months in the whole year) and on the other site, there are many, many people who do this so I warn people against it. And I also have quite a few people who think that they can get to 100% if only they do enough sway "factors" but that sadly is not how it seems to work - it just appears that there is an upper ceiling on our potential success rates and I like for you guys to know that going in rather than expecting higher chances than swaying can deliver.

Myoinositol has caused some very weird side effects (in addition to making weight fly off). We've had people whose egg quality became dreadful on myoinositol and others who developed very short LP. I recommend it ONLY for the people who need it - PCOSers and those with more than 50 lbs to spare. Everyone else, you're better off skipping it.

We have lots of people on here who are on thyroid meds. Avoid iodine(unless advised by a doctor), soy, aspirin/cranberry, antihistamine only in the "rescue" method (one day only, day of attempt, 4-6 hours before attempt). I don't use the herbs for thyroid ladies any more because they seemed to cause way more trouble than they were worth (so no vitex, peppermint, saw palmetto)

[Made2Mumma]

Ok great, duly noted! So basically my only options are diet, exercise and single attempt, and I should avoid everything else. Little disappointing, but obviously health is most important. Should I still try to get clomid, or leave it alone?
I just have a final clarification on the single attempt, how long should we be abstaining prior? We are both 28, so I assume extended abstaining is out of the question?
Seeing as I'm unable to take anything, can dh? He is pretty receptive. I have started him on olive leaf extract, but can you suggest some other things?
Both of us seem to be pretty fertile, so swayed to boys anyway, hopefully we can implement some other stratergies if not the herbs, maybe the jelly?

Thank you

[atomic sagebrush]

But don't worry though, because those things haven't even WORKED for us.

I know it's counterintuitive but we are getting good results (with quicker times to conception and fewer miscarriages than other sites) by ditching the crap that doesn't work and focusing on what does. And the good news is - diet, exercise, one attempt, and Clomid if you can get it (and yes yes do try to get it if you can) is what works. The 11 herbs and spices don't even work anyway so it's totally great to wave them buh-bye with no regrets. You'll have just as good a sway as anyone else and you'll get pregnant much quicker with less chance of a miscarriage as well.

For DH - soy milk 12-36 oz. a day (so 1-3 glasses), smoking if he enjoys that (even if just occasionally has seemed to help), jogging or biking for him (the more the better) have seemed to help. Coffee and alcohol may help for him.

Jelly - at your discretion. Again, has not been effective and does cut odds of conception but I do keep it in the mix for those who want to try it. Just be sure you drop it before adding attempts!

[Made2Mumma]

Alright that is good to know. I certainly feel a great deal more relaxed about my attempt then I felt at the start of the week, so thank you! I think I've let go of the idea that I won't be happy with anything but a girl, because that's not necessarily true, but I still want to give myself the best chance!

What's the best way to get clomid? Do I flat out lie and say my cycles are irregular and I'm not sure I'm ovulating?

Thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

Best way to get Clomid is to say you've been trying for 6 months or more and your cycles are all over the place, very long, very short, not regular. Don't mention the "C" word, you're there to get help conceiving, not to get Clomid. If you're breastfeeding, don't mention that unless asked directly, since they immediately seize upon that as the reason for not getting pregnant. It may not be easy to get given that you've had a baby as recently as 2016 but they're giving it out more than they were for a while there. If they say no, just say "thanks" and go on your way. If they refer you to someone else or for lab work, say "thanks" and then don't go to the appointment. If they say anything (which they never do) then just say something came up and you guys decided to postpone TTC for a while for work reasons or whatever. Don't ask for Clomid, don't throw a fit if they don't give it to you (not that you would, but some have LOL) no matter what, you are just there for help conceiving and not a particular medication, because if they think you want it, they never let you have it. :/

[Made2Mumma]

Ok excellent, thank you I'll try! I had my son feb 2016, so hopefully that's been enough time! I'm a terrible liar, but I'll give it a go lol

[atomic sagebrush]

Lie as little as possible, don't give many details. You are there for help getting pregnant (true!)