Calcium

[Coccinelle33]

Now im super confused on what I should do.... I was doing the high calcium thing with my last 3 sways. I got 1 girl and 2 boys. So this time I stopped but then I asked a question about sodium and calcium and Kristin said that calcium alone sways pink but salt and calcium together sway blue.... Should I start drinking milk and taking calcium supplements again and totally avoid salt or just keep avoiding dairy/calcium and not care so so much about sodium? :hair:

[HopeandDreamG]

To say girl you want low sodium and low potassium. high calcium. The ranges as Calcium- 1200-1800mg, Magnesium 200-300mg, potassium-2,500-3,500mg, and soduim 700-1000mg

[rainbowflower]

I thought Atomic recommended no more than 1000mg calcium?

[HopeandDreamG]

I am going by IG diet.

[zanacal]

mommyduke, are you sure that's what she said - do you have a link?

Atomic's Low Everything and High Everything diets are based on the theory that less of all nutrients (including calcium) sways girl and more of all nutrients sways boy, based on the Trivers Willard theory.

She believes that sodium is the least important aspect of the diet, even though you're advised to decrease sodium on the LE diet to sway for a girl and to increase it to sway for a boy. Too much salt is bad for fertility (and health in general) so going over the top with sodium for a boy sway is a bad idea.

So I can see where you got the idea that salt and calcium together swaying blue (with full fat dairy and plenty of salty foods recommended on the HE diet), but if you're doing the LE diet then you don't take calcium and when you do have it in food you make sure only to use skimmed.

I take it you've read the calcium conundrum threads? You'll need to make your own mind up based on those and whatever else you've read but Atomic does not believe that calcium is a magic bullet for a pink sway and has said she regrets that she took it for her own sway. She did come up with an interesting theory that taking a mineral in excess might make your body think it's being poisoned (boron, magnesium, calcium!) and that calcium is probably the healthiest mineral to 'poison' your system with (which would sway girl under the TW theory by having it think that something is not right and times are hard/you're in trouble health wise) - so her preference is no calcium but if you're going to take it then try taking lots!

[NeedAGirl!]

I have a really hard time dismissing calcium as a strong sway factor. There are just way too many studies that show a decrease in the sex ratio with increased calcium and decreased sodium. I really like the LE diet except for the lack of calcium. Many studies have shown more males born with high fat and high calorie diets. However, there are also lots of studies from cows, sheep, rats, rabbits, you name it where the only feed difference was increased calcium and decreased sodium which produced more females. The Dutch study included "all manner" of foods just no potatoes and demanded ca supplements as well as at least 5g of dairy daily. (82% girls)

[NeedAGirl!]

I think the mistake is getting too much fat/calories/protein and potassium with certain kinds of dairy. (as in the greek yogurt recommended by IG)

[rainbowflower]

I have a really hard time dismissing calcium as a strong sway factor. There are just way too many studies that show a decrease in the sex ratio with increased calcium and decreased sodium. I really like the LE diet except for the lack of calcium. Many studies have shown more males born with high fat and high calorie diets. However, there are also lots of studies from cows, sheep, rats, rabbits, you name it where the only feed difference was increased calcium and decreased sodium which produced more females. The Dutch study included "all manner" of foods just no potatoes and demanded ca supplements as well as at least 5g of dairy daily. (82% girls)

I do agree with this, I think there is more evidence that the calc+mag sway pink than there is saying that those sway blue through too many nutrients. Afterall, you can be deficient in most things and have declining condition, doesn't matter if you eat a lot of one thing as that won't affect the overall trend (IMO)

however, I wouldn't take extreme doses of any of them as I don't think that's safe or necessary

[ELP]

I think the mistake is getting too much fat/calories/protein and potassium with certain kinds of dairy. (as in the greek yogurt recommended by IG)
This is it I reckon:agree: I've conceived boys and girls on the same amount of calcium, its the rest of the stuff that goes with it. Remember milk is basically a whole food in itself, so perfect for blue by TW. Us here are really putting together the first major study differently, all the other studies didn't take into account all the other stuff going on. I definately think the LE girl option will get fantastic pink results:agree: If you want milk just make it the skimmed/no fat type maybe.

[HopeandDreamG]

How does the LE diet work for dh? I've been following IG diet along with dh.. I have to lose weight and he needs to stay same or gain. How do dh's do that on the LE diet

[zanacal]

My DH didn't diet and I was happy with that - he actually ate terribly and lots of ready meals because I was eating differently to him and that felt right as being less healthy (and having more fat and less muscle) is bad for fertility which is what we want for a girl sway.

If I'd chosen to have him do anything, it would have been to cut back/eliminate meat and eggs to lower testosterone and to drink/eat some aspartame for acidity but he didn't do either!

[rainbowflower]

my DH hasn't been doing the LE diet with me either, although he does need to lose the weight

[atomic sagebrush]

I didn't say that, I said a study found that to be true in rats!!! ;) There's a HUGE difference between what a study finds and what the truth may really be.

Personally, and I know you are with me on this, the cal-mag business is SO erratic that it totally cannot be true. There are tons of people like you and me who took like INSANE amounts of calcium and magnesium and got boys, boys, boys. Pretty much every failed pink sway and there are a lot of them.

[atomic sagebrush]

To say girl you want low sodium and low potassium. high calcium. The ranges as Calcium- 1200-1800mg, Magnesium 200-300mg, potassium-2,500-3,500mg, and soduim 700-1000mg

According to one theory.

Some other research has indicated that higher intake of nutrients across the board, including calcium, sways blue.

[atomic sagebrush]

I have a really hard time dismissing calcium as a strong sway factor. There are just way too many studies that show a decrease in the sex ratio with increased calcium and decreased sodium. I really like the LE diet except for the lack of calcium. Many studies have shown more males born with high fat and high calorie diets. However, there are also lots of studies from cows, sheep, rats, rabbits, you name it where the only feed difference was increased calcium and decreased sodium which produced more females. The Dutch study included "all manner" of foods just no potatoes and demanded ca supplements as well as at least 5g of dairy daily. (82% girls)

It is TOTALLY possible to do the LE Diet with calcium. Just take calcium supps and eat a little skim dairy! :agree:

According to at least one article I read, the Dutch study did NOT include all manner of foods. It was described as a mostly vegetarian diet that had a lot of leafy greens and other vegetables along with grains and dairy. And the study itself refers repeatedly to a "diet" that was followed. Am I missing something??

Some of the "studies" often cited to support the FGD are not well done or designed, particularly the cow studies included in the FGD book. There are a couple studies in rats that are intriguing but there are also some studies in rats that show high sodium and high calcium intake = more males and also ones that say high sodium = more daughters. To echo what Zana said, I think it's totally possible that poisoning yourself with any mineral (some other minerals that are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to alter the gender ratio in high amounts include mercury and boron but these are neurotoxins!!!) might sway pink for some people but the problem is, anyone whose body is good at handling mineral poisoning just gets rid of them so for many of us, we risk the poison for essentially no benefit.

There is a whole nother issue about whether it's even healthy to take these megadose vitamins in the long term, esp. when TTC. People get so worried about skipping prenatals for two months when they're thinking about conceiving but they seem to think nothing of taking these massive doses of crap that no other human being in history has ever taken before the last 50 years or so. Too much vitamins and minerals are WORSE for you and cause more birth defects than not enough and this is a proven fact. Calcium has not been linked to birth defects (yet) but I'm only aware of 2 studies that were done. Vitamin D can cause birth defects and magnesium used as a food preservative has had a link drawn but not proven. Plus, some calcium supplements were found to contain lead and mercury which do cause birth defects.

On the other side of the aisle, it flies in the face of biology that the blue swayers are doing anything to appreciably alter the levels of calcium in their blood. Your body simply robs your bones to get all the calcium you need. Same with magnesium, sodium, and potassium. If the levels of those minerals get outside the normal range, you die, and the only people who really alter those minerals in any substantial way are people with major health issues like cancer. Yes, your levels might go up a little temporarily if you pop some supps but your body is always working to keep homeostasis and when it can't do that, you keel over dead. It doesn't WANT to have screwy mineral levels and it does what it needs to do to keep things in the proper zone.

Not to mention the 75% of people on the Planet Earth who cannot eat dairy and get way less calcium than people who do are still having similar gender ratios to people who eat dairy all the time, the fact that humans couldn't even eat dairy foods until 8000 years ago, the fact that people of African descent who retain high levels of sodium in their bodies due to genetic factors and are largely unable to digest dairy have way more daughters than Scandinavians who are genetically the most able to digest dairy, the fact that our nearest primate relatives do not eat massive amounts of dairy and the limited calcium they do get comes from plants and dirt that also contains sky high levels of potassium and sodium, the fact that other things have been proven to alter the gender ratio...studies, no studies, the largest study of all is the real world and the magic bullet status of cal/mag just does not add up in the real world.

The simple fact is that the Oxford study who wasn't even looking for a link between diet and gender of baby born and isn't selling anything, found higher calcium intake in moms of boys and every failed sway on IG of which there are TONS at this point, all of them taking sky high doses of calcium and magnesium. If it was about the calcium-mag, that would never happen. If it was about the cal-mag, everyone would get their DG just by popping some pills and that is clearly not the case. It makes the most sense that diet that is doing the swaying and the swaying successes are coincidentally stumbling onto the right diet while the sway failures aren't. IF cal-mag sways it's highly doubtful that it's in excess of 80%, and it's also because something else is going on and that something, without being understood, may not be safe. High calcium intake has been linked to osteoporosis, heart disease, and kidney stones and we have seriously next to NO data on the effect of a high calcium intake prior to pregnancy.

Look, I'm not in the business of talking people into skipping or including calcium in their sway. I hope everyone understands that. If someone shows up tomorrow with an explanation about how and why calcium works (that does not include the word ION because sperm do NOT have different electrical charges, that was debunked) you will see me do an about face so fast it will make everyone's heads spin. For now, I just think the evidence points in the other direction and not just a little bit either. It is unlikely beyond belief that the gender ratio of every creature on the planet from sea slugs to human beings is solely controlled by the levels of calcium and sodium/potassium in their diets. My sole motivation is to see people get their DG in a safe manner, and so I feel like I have to keep repeating what I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing about.

[atomic sagebrush]

How does the LE diet work for dh? I've been following IG diet along with dh.. I have to lose weight and he needs to stay same or gain. How do dh's do that on the LE diet

DH does not need to do any diet for the LE-style sway to work. It is the female's condition that matters, not the guy's (overall - if a guy was in REALLY bad condition that would sway pink, but most guys are just normal). For DH, it's lowering sperm count that matters, so anything he can do to reduce the numbers of sperm overall, will help sway pink. Licorice root, abstinence or frequent BD, hot baths, etc.

[HopeandDreamG]

Atomic: do you believe the diet to be the most important part of a sway?

[atomic sagebrush]

Toss up between DW's diet and lowering sperm count overall.

[NeedAGirl!]

Aarrgh. It is just so hard. Nothing is for sure. Ya just gotta go with what feels right and then pray, a lot. Although I keep reminding myself that the prayers should focus on acceptance for what I am dealt rather than what I want...

[zanacal]

Aarrgh. It is just so hard. Nothing is for sure. Ya just gotta go with what feels right and then pray, a lot. Although I keep reminding myself that the prayers should focus on acceptance for what I am dealt rather than what I want...

It is hard NeedAGirl, and I agree you have to go with what feels right for you then the rest is out of your hands!

[NeedAGirl!]

I do think that overdoing any nutrient is a bad idea. I am taking what was prescribed in the study which is not excessive. For supplements, they only recommend 500-700mg of Calcium, 400-600mg magnesium and 500ug of Vitamin D and 500g of dairy a day (15 ounces of milk -less than 2 cups.) My calciums are 333mg each of calcium citrate, so I am taking 2 daily which combined with the calcium of 2 cups of skim milk is 1268mg of calcium total daily. I am taking 300mg of magnesium. I am not taking the Vitamin D though, there is 200ug fortified in the 2 cups of milk.

[atomic sagebrush]

I do think that overdoing any nutrient is a bad idea. I am taking what was prescribed in the study which is not excessive. For supplements, they only recommend 500-700mg of Calcium, 400-600mg magnesium and 500ug of Vitamin D and 500g of dairy a day (15 ounces of milk -less than 2 cups.) My calciums are 333mg each of calcium citrate, so I am taking 2 daily which combined with the calcium of 2 cups of skim milk is 1268mg of calcium total daily. I am taking 300mg of magnesium. I am not taking the Vitamin D though, there is 200ug fortified in the 2 cups of milk.

That seems totally reasonable to me (except the magnesium is dangerously high but you are not taking that much) and I wish you (and everyone of course) the very best of luck with their sways!