Hormone blood tests after m/c - questions & need advice!

[ABC.2606]

Hi all! So after an early miscarriage @ 5 weeks, my doctor has decided to run blood tests during my next cycle to check my hormones. I assume this will include FSH, LH, estrogen, & progesterone? He wants to do a blood draw at CD3, CD7, and a week after ovulation. He's doing this mainly because I have a LP of about 10 days and just had the miscarriage. My cycles are usually 24 days (very consistent). He said if my progesterone is low he'd give me prog supplements, but he also said I may need a medication that would "just make you ovulate better." I didn't ask but assume that meant Clomid. I'm swaying girl, so Clomid would be very welcome and I've thought for awhile now that I might actually need it because of my LP.

The doctor seemed to make it clear that he will base any meds/treatment off of these blood tests. My question is then will the two pre-O blood tests of FSH, LH, etc. tell him if I do in fact need Clomid? If the levels are normal then does it mean I probably don't need Clomid? Just wondering what I should expect from the results. I know Atomic has told me that I shouldn't expect the docs to really have a lot of answers about what exactly is going on, but I'm just wondering how the blood draws would determine treatment. I'm guessing if the pre-O blood tests are fine but my progesterone post-O is low, he'll go the progesterone supplement route. And if everything is normal - than I just go back to ttc as normal I guess? I should say that my cycles were about the same length and my LP was the same length when I conceived my two boys - they were conceived easily on the first try and I didn't have a miscarriage before getting pregnant with either of them, so this wasn't a problem for me in conceiving in the past and may not be this time either (given that the m/c likely was a fluke/ chromosome issue anyways).

One more Q.... I have almost gone a full cycle now since the m/c started at the end of August (period should start next week & I ovulated 2 weeks after the m/c), and I've been swaying for almost 6 months now.... Really over it - the diet, etc - and really ready to be pregnant!! But with these tests I guess I may have to wait another cycle before we even start trying again. If you were me, and the first two blood draws pre-O come back normal & it looks like Clomid is a no-go, would you go ahead and attempt at O, knowing that you still had to do the progesterone test to see if progesterone is low? My doc said I can try again next cycle while he's doing the tests but he cautioned that if I have low progesterone I may miscarry again before he can get me on the supplements. If the pre-O tests are not normal and it looks like I need Clomid I will definitely wait until the next cycle, but if they are normal I'm wondering whether we should go ahead and try anyways at my next O.

Thanks!!

[Shannshaff]

ABC - honestly, if it looks like you will no get the Clomid, I would ttc this cycle. You have carried 2 pregnancies with your short LP already, so it could have just been a fluke for the m/c and not related to the prog. Being so close to a m/c also sways pink and it sounds like you would rather be pg than postpone any longer.

[Pbn3]

Abc he may prescribe the clomid even if your bloods come back normal to try extend your lp (even though 10 days is acceptable he may prescribe it so as to be trying something to be helpful?) Personally I would wait and see simply because clomid sways so strongly pink. I would then go with more than one attempt to up my chances of conception while taking clomid as I would think clomid would sway more strongly than number of attempts (wait for Atomics view on this though) By that I mean e3or4d with extra attempt at pos opk it falls on a non bd day. The fact your cycles are so short means you'd only have a short delay in ttc, so even if your not given clomid you haven't lost much time. I just honestly think possibility of getting clomid would be such a big gain for your sway for so little wait/time sacrifice..... Maybe ask yourself the question if you get pregnant this cycle and turns out your doc was going to prescibe clomid would you second guess your decision to go ahead this cycle?

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[atomic sagebrush]

Ok. I'm gonna rephrase the question to make sure I'm giving you the answer I think you're looking for here.

You're asking me if they are going to see something on the blood tests that will tell them to either give you Clomid or NOT give you Clomid and the answer is no to both. What will happen, what always seems to happen, is that they make you jump through the hoops and give you the Clomid anyway. I don't know why it is exactly, but they have a way that they do things and the way that they do them is that they do the blood tests. But then even if you're ovulating on your own, they give you the Clomid anyway!! It's all very weird.

The conventional wisdom is that Clomid makes for a better ovulation even in women who are already ovulating. Better ovulation = better corpus luteum and higher progesterone. I very, very strongly suspect that he will give you Clomid along with the prog supps. They don't usually do bloodwork for prog supps, just give them to you. The blood tests are typically done before a Clomid scrip. Clomid is the gold standard for short LP because it doesn't just mask the symptoms like the prog supps do, Clomid actually makes it better. so no matter what I think you're headed towards the Clomid.

I know I've already gone over the prog stuff probably more than you wanted me to but he's wrong that you'd risk a miscarriage due to "low progesterone" since low progesterone is the result of the pregnancy not working out and not the other way around so if you want to try, please don't let that put you off.

But, that having been said, personally in this type of situation I have people hold off for the Clomid whenever they can stand it. If you prefer to try, totally cool, your call to make, it's just what I generally recommend. :heart:

[ABC.2606]

Thanks, Shannshaff, Pbn, Atomic for your thoughts!!

Eeeek now I feel excited at the prospect that I may actually get Clomid!! I'm still a little nervous about it - side effects, risk, etc. - but I would feel even better about my girl sway if I got it!! And yea - I do actually agree, Atomic, that it does seem very reasonable that for medical reasons I SHOULD have it anyways, w/ my history of short LPs, and now a recent miscarriage. I'm pretty sure I could still get pregnant & stay pregnant without treatment if I had to, but I don't think my cycles are working in the most optimal way. So, I guess we'll probably just hold out then. I'm hoping AF comes early next week so I can go in for the first blood draw!!

[ABC.2606]

AF arrived today so I get my first blood draw on Friday. Nurse said the doc will want me to do an ultrasound around ovulation - didn't realize that they would be doing that. Is that just to confirm ovulation occurred??

Thanks! I'm new to this fertility testing stuff! :)

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[Pbn3]

Yes I would think so Abc which is great news! Cant wait to hear hiw these tests pan out and if you are given clomid! You should know in less than 3 weeks [emoji3]

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[atomic sagebrush]

They can also see ~sometimes~ if it was a "good" one with a big CL forming or not (although to be completely honest with you, I am exceedingly skeptical they can see anything on them at all) and possibly how many follicles had developed (that did not ovulate)

It will be transvag, just to warn you.

[ABC.2606]

They can also see ~sometimes~ if it was a "good" one with a big CL forming or not (although to be completely honest with you, I am exceedingly skeptical they can see anything on them at all) and possibly how many follicles had developed (that did not ovulate)

It will be transvag, just to warn you.Ok - thanks for heads up, Atomic. I had extra transvag u/s with my boys to check my cervix so unfortunately I'm used to them :)

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[atomic sagebrush]

Most of us by the time we get to kid #3/4 have had them but a couple gals walked into the appointment and had the shock of their lives. The things we do for our kiddos. :)

[ABC.2606]

Most of us by the time we get to kid #3/4 have had them but a couple gals walked into the appointment and had the shock of their lives. The things we do for our kiddos. :)My doc called today. My AMH came back at either 4.4 or 4.8 (I forget which he said). My FSH was 5-something and my estradiol I believe he said was 29. My tsh was down to 1.3 which is great since it was 3.6 when he put me on synthroid a year ago. So everything is normal so far I guess.

I just read though that AMH over 4 may indicate PCOS. Is that true or in line with what you've seen?

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[atomic sagebrush]

The higher the AMH the greater the possibility for PCOS but you are barely over normal and I would not worry about it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24593938

We can do the alternate PCOS diet if you wanted to. It may be better for egg quality anyway.

[ABC.2606]

The higher the AMH the greater the possibility for PCOS but you are barely over normal and I would not worry about it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24593938

We can do the alternate PCOS diet if you wanted to. It may be better for egg quality anyway.Thanks atomic - you already had me on the PCOS version bc of signs of insulin resistance (mainly acne & little bit of weight issues). I started out pretty good on that version but after 6 months I've slipped into more of a regular LE diet (more sugar/refined junk). Will try to get stricter on the PCOS version again.

Do you still think with these initial numbers that he'll still end up giving me Clomid? I have the follicle ultrasound on Friday and my annual exam on Monday and I think I might ask directly this time about meds.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Oh I'm sorry sometimes I get mixed up over time.

Yes, let's do tighten back up again on the alt. diet just to see if it helps. (can't hurt, either for fertility or for swaying, although it is harder to stick with)

I know it's weird but doctors really don't give or not give Clomid based on the numbers. The tests are something they seem like they think they have to do but then they will generally give anyone Clomid who has been TTC for a while without success. FXFXFX (and honestly - don't ask until the end of the appointment. Let him/her come up with the idea on their own, because they 90% likely will suggest it anyway, and then that way you don't burn your bridge if they were gonna prescribe it for you anyway.)

[ABC.2606]

Update: I had my follicle ultrasound on Friday. It showed a 17 mm follicle on right ovary and "pre-ovulatory" thick lining. I also got positive OPK on Friday afternoon. However, as of this morning (Monday), I have not had a temp rise (at ALL - temps keep going down actually!). This is pretty normal for me though as I usually don't see a temp rise until a few days after +OPK.

I saw my doctor today (for my annual) and explained to him about the +OPK on Friday (CD10) and the fact that I have not had a temp shift as of today, CD13, and that I always see a very clear temp shift at ovulation. I reemphasized that I always ovulate between day 13-15 of a 24 day cycle, and normally don't get a positive OPK until day 11 or later. He confirmed that the initial blood tests and ultrasound were normal but based on what I'm telling him about when I ovulate and my cycle length, I probably do need either Clomid or progesterone supplements. He said for now though he is leaning towards progesterone. I didn't push it as I still haven't confirmed O, and I still need to do the progesterone test and let him know when my period starts.

Should I try to nudge him in the other direction, towards Clomid, and how? Next time I talk to him will likely be when he calls me with my progesterone results (I'm getting the blood draw on Friday so it would be early next week). Is there a way to tell him, no, I'd rather you give me the Clomid versus the progesterone (or do both)?

Also - He mentioned that his big concern with Clomid is the increased risk of multiples (he gave me the numbers - 10% risk of twins, less than 1% of triplets). I think I read somewhere that when taking Clomid when you ovulate on your own consistently (which I do), you're at higher risk of multiples than someone taking it who doesn't ovulate on their own. Is this true? Would I be at higher risk?

[Pbn3]

That seems abit backward to me, the progesterone supps before trying clomid, especially as you don't even have your results for prog yet? When you speak to him I would say you've been looking into clomid and feel for you that the benifit would outweigh the risk of twins (which really isn't that high) get upset if you need to ([emoji6]) and say you've been at this so long and you want your best chance so please give the clomid or both.....

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[ABC.2606]

That seems abit backward to me, the progesterone supps before trying clomid, especially as you don't even have your results for prog yet? When you speak to him I would say you've been looking into clomid and feel for you that the benifit would outweigh the risk of twins (which really isn't that high) get upset if you need to ([emoji6]) and say you've been at this so long and you want your best chance so please give the clomid or both.....

Sent from my SM-G900I using TapatalkYea, I guess he may be one of those docs that more closely guards the Clomid scripts! He's thinking progesterone bc he says I may just need the extra hormone support for maintain a pregnancy with my short LP but he's also said that I may need help in ovulating "better and sooner" ie Clomid. I do think it's worth pushing for it though since I don't think it's right that it takes me a full 2 weeks to ovulate in a 24 day cycle. I feel like I do need a "better and sooner" ovulation!

Another question, do lower doses (like 50 mg) make multiples less likely?

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[atomic sagebrush]

I know that people say that online but the biggest group of people who are not ovulating and on Clomid have PCOS and it is THEY who are the highest chance of twins on Clomid. Twins can happen on Clomid, it's a fact, but regardless it's 8-10% (depending on the study) across the entire population and not really drastically more for some than for others.

What you can do is try to nudge him in the direction of the Clomid if you want to or try the progesterone and tell him that you had really bad side effects from it and they'll give you the Clomid. That's a bit sneaky, of course, but I just hate seeing anyone given the %&^& progesterone since it has been proven to be nothing more than a placebo.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yea, I guess he may be one of those docs that more closely guards the Clomid scripts! He's thinking progesterone bc he says I may just need the extra hormone support for maintain a pregnancy with my short LP but he's also said that I may need help in ovulating "better and sooner" ie Clomid. I do think it's worth pushing for it though since I don't think it's right that it takes me a full 2 weeks to ovulate in a 24 day cycle. I feel like I do need a "better and sooner" ovulation!

Another question, do lower doses (like 50 mg) make multiples less likely?

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Since he's saying stuff like that I would honestly try to play it real cool here because he's probably gonna give it to you anyway. I am obviously not a doc but I do think it's medically indicated for you.

Yes, 50 mg makes multiples less likely.

[ABC.2606]

Thanks Atomic. I will try to play it cool a bit longer but I really am starting to think Clomid is the right path - not just for my sway, but b/c I think I really DO need it! I got a +OPK on Friday and STILL have not seen a temp rise as of this morning!! I'm guessing I ovulate today, which at CD14 would be completely typical for me, but why does it take so long from +OPK to O? It would seem to me that my body just needs a good "nudge" to get ovulation to happen earlier - and progesterone is not going to help that!

That's reassuring about multiples and not necessarily having a higher risk b/c I ovulate on my own. I would definitely want a lower dose of Clomid if I do get it - and I'm guessing that would be what he'd recommend since my fertility issue isn't severe.

[ABC.2606]

Oh shoot- Atomic another thing I forgot to mention is that during my appt yesterday, my OBGYN recommended that I take a baby aspirin every day. Reason for this is that I have a mild underlying autoimmune "thing" related to my connective tissues - it's very, very mild at this point. I have been tested for the antibodies that are connected to blood clotting problems and all have been negative. But he recommended baby aspirin anyways. I didn't take it when conceiving my two boys - had the same AI issues then - so I don't know, it feels unnecessary to me. But I guess it wont necessarily hurt my sway if I do, since baby aspirin is thought to be a "girl sway" technique? I know it hasn't been real effective ttc girl but what do you think? Aren't you worried about risk factors associated w/ it though?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, I'm extremely worried about the risks and side effects. The rules are different if he/she thinks you really need it. But I would just go really easy both going into it and coming off of it - start only with like 2 days a week and see what happens. If you notice bleeding, bruising (and usually this is glaringly obvious but what a lot of us have noticed is that we'll just press against something or barely hit our finger or leg and have severe pain before we actually start bruising) then either dial it back or else hold there until your body has time to adjust before increasing it.

Then, when i'ts time to come off it (and usually this will be at the end of the second tri for people taking it during pregnancy) then again, just go very slow and gradual, spacing doses further and further out till down to one per week, then drop. Since they usually want you off at 36 weeks make sure and give yourself 3-4 weeks in advance to wean off.

[ABC.2606]

Update:

I got a +OPK (Clear Blue smiley) on CD10 (9/29) but don't think I ovulated until CD 14 based on temperature rise on CD15 & EWCM on CD14.

My doctor - b/c I had the +OPK on CD10 - ran a progesterone test on CD17 - which I believe was 3dpo, he thinks it was 1 week dpo based solely on the +opk. He called me this morning and said the test came back at 10 ng/ml, which he said is normal. He now just wants me to call him on the day I start my period, I guess so we can try to figure out how long my LP was this cycle.

Again - he thinks I ovulated sooner than I think I did, but if I did ovulate on CD14, is 10 pretty good for only 3dpo? I've always believed that I have low progesterone but maybe I was wrong?

I'm feeling like I don't have a chance at getting Clomid now since all the tests have come back normal, we've confirmed I ovulated, etc. He doesn't seem eager to give it to me. I feel discouraged b/c obviously I really want it for my sway, but I also feel like something is still not quite right despite what the tests are showing. Like, why did I get a +OPK on CD10 but not ovulate until CD14? And why I do always ovulate around CD14 when my cycle is only 24 days? Just seems like something is still off.

[ABC.2606]

Shoot - another thing I just thought of: I'm likely going to start AF on Saturday, if my LP is again 10 days. That means I can't call doc until Monday which would already be CD3 and isn't Clomid often started on CD3? So IF, IF he'll give it to me, he would have to be convinced by Monday to write the script. Gah. Should I call him later this week and reiterate my concerns and see if he'll at least bring up the prospect of Clomid again? I do not want to wait another whole cycle before we start trying again esp if it looks like he has no interest in prescribing Clomid anyways.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not that unusual to O on CD 14 after pos OPK on CD 10.

Yes it's low normal. Actually better for CD 3 than 7

What I think may be happening is that you're not low in progesterone, but estrogen. So (and I think we were already doing this) drop fiber, do the eggs/dairy/salmon and this provides the raw materials for both progesterone and estrogen.

You can start Clomid as late as CD 5. I would probably give him/her a call on Thurs. to see if they want you to do anything, let them know you're expecting AF on Saturday.

[ABC.2606]

It's not that unusual to O on CD 14 after pos OPK on CD 10.

Yes it's low normal. Actually better for CD 3 than 7

What I think may be happening is that you're not low in progesterone, but estrogen. So (and I think we were already doing this) drop fiber, do the eggs/dairy/salmon and this provides the raw materials for both progesterone and estrogen.

You can start Clomid as late as CD 5. I would probably give him/her a call on Thurs. to see if they want you to do anything, let them know you're expecting AF on Saturday.Do you still think Clomid is medically indicated for me though? If estrogen is low, does Clomid help that?

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, I still think Clomid is medically indicated. Clomid "tricks" your body into making a lot of estrogen very fast.

[ABC.2606]

I got Clomid!!!!!!!!

Doctor was not particularly eager to give it to me. Basically he felt like everything from the tests during my last cycle looked normal. He thinks I ovulated a few days earlier than I think I did - he's going off of my first +opk while I'm going off of my very clear temp spike and O symptoms. So he thinks I had a 14 day LP while I think I had a 10 day LP w/2 days of spotting before AF. So whatever. But he still floated the option of medication and I took it :) :) :) Only stipulation is that DH has to get a SA to make sure he's not the source of our "fertility problems". Which even that I'm not so upset about as I've been really curious about what DH's sperm count is as I suspect it's really good. I don't have to wait until that SA though to start Clomid - I'm starting it tonight on CD3. Eeeek!!!!!!!

Atomic in terms of girl sway is Clomid effective in swaying from month 1 or is it more effective when you've had it in your system for a few months? I know no matter what it's not a magic bullet and that it's important to get pregnant quickly while on it - but I was just curious about whether the length of time on it matters.

Yaaay!!!!

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[atomic sagebrush]

Oh that's great news ABC. :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

I honestly do not know if Clomid is as effective the first month out as in subsequent months. I kind of suspect it isn't, which is why I allow people to do what they'd like to do to sway that first month and thne have them dropping stuff. But I do want everyone to try every month on the Clomid anyway because we still see plenty of girls conceived even in the first month. It's the best of the best sway tactic there is and no one should ever try to skip months thinking to have a better sway. If you have Clomid, u already have the BEST sway.

[ABC.2606]

Ok, Atomic, good to know. Here's my dilemma then: I have NO idea what will come from DH's SA. He's 34. He has a low-moderate libido - he has a libido, but really is fine with a couple times a week (even less really) and daily DTD's would be WAY too much for him on a normal basis. He seems to not have a real high level of testosterone - no chest hair, very non-aggressive personality (very laid back), etc. He also has hypothyroidism, which he is on Synthroid for, but supposedly hypothyroidism in males = lower sperm count. He exercises - biking and jogging - a few times a week at most. He's super tall and thin. He doesn't eat a ton of red meat and I've asked him to cut back even more since starting our sway.

That all said - in all of our marriage we have "tried" to get pregnant a total of 4 of my cycles and we've gotten pregnant 3 out of those 4 times. The first two were with my 2 sons - we got pregnant w/ both of them on the first try (and when we got pregnant w/ them, he was not on medication for his thyroid, even though he had the condition during those periods of time). W/ my 2nd son - we BD-ed daily 5-6 days in a row through O. The 3rd time we got pregnant was with my miscarriage in August. With that pregnancy, we BD-ed at O-4 and O-2. With each of those two attempts, he released on his own 14 hours before each attempt. With the O-2 attempt, it was a fairly shallow release. So that would indicate a higher sperm count.

So - I don't know!? Does he have a high sperm count? A low sperm count? From what I know about his personality, physical characteristics, and medical conditions - he should have a lower sperm count. From our actual experience in getting pregnant easily and especially getting pregnant recently after a 14 hour pre-BD release, I'm feeling like he has a pretty strong sperm count. I'm a *little* worried about this SA he's doing - if it comes back as low, the doc may take me off of the Clomid as he'll say the issue is w/ DH and that we should just treat DH's issues (since despite putting me on Clomid he doesn't really seem to think I have an issue!). But I just don't think based on our experience that DH has a low sperm count.

SO... Regarding our attempt this cycle: He does the SA in a couple of days from now. We likely will not know the results of the SA before our next attempt, as it takes 7-10 days to get the results. I'm worried that if we attempt before knowing the results and he does in fact have a HIGH sperm count, this will lower our chances of a girl, even with 1 attempt. So, I'm wondering if we should try to do compressed FR or hurry up FR this cycle, since it's cycle #1 of Clomid, before we see what his sperm count is. Since we don't know yet, I'm wondering if we should go on the assumption that it is high and do what we can to lower it before our attempt this cycle. If SA comes back and sperm count is normal-low, I guess we'd drop any kind of FR next cycle and just stick w/ 1 attempt.

I know I sound like I'm obsessing about this and I know that that's bad for a girl sway. Honestly, it's just the one thing I can't seem to get comfortable with. I'm not worried at all about timing and am probably not going to do antihistamines, gels, etc. I just need to figure out when to have DH release before our 1 attempt!!

Thanks!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that's just what I was going to point out - you're going to have the SA in a couple days so going over it all really doesn't accomplish anything. I can't tell from here if he has a good sperm count or not, physical characteristics actually have very little to do with a guy's sperm count since there are tons of factors below the surface. It just feels a little bit control freaky to me which you also realize. :)

My inclination, given the fact that he does jog and bike, is to skip the FR since it has not even worked anyway. What's the point of even doing something that doesn't work?? The compressed FR is garbage, if it works it's because it's done with one attempt, and soooo many men could not stick to it and/or could not perform when they did that I no longer bother with it any more and keep it around only for those who insist. Hurry up FR - if you want to try it this first month that is fine by me and since it is done at kind of the last minute, if you do decide later to skip it based on any SA results you will be able to do so without having to worry about leaving FR too late.

I do want to reassure you that I ~doubt~ he'll take you off the Clomid. It is entirely possible for both parties to have some suboptimal fertility going on and it will still help.

[ABC.2606]

Ok Atomic - I'll try to relax about that.... Maybe we'll just do hurry up this month, or maybe I'll have him release about 12-14 hours before our attempt, which is what we did in August w/my miscarriage pregnancy so I know we can get pregnant that way. Kinda hoping we hear about the SA before our attempt but I think that's unlikely. Yea about the Clomid now that I finally have it I'm just nervous about losing it :) :) There really is no reason for him to not just let me try it though for at least a few months - I haven't had any symptoms or problems w/ it so far and I'm on a low dose anyways (50 mg).

Question: As I've mentioned before based on my charting, I normally O around 2-3 days after +OPK. This past cycle it was 4 days after (+OPK on CD 10, O on CD14 according to temp shift). Do you think Clomid will move that up? Like would it make me ovulate sooner after +OPK than I am doing on my own w/o medication? The way my body has been working it's made timing of the 1 attempt tricky, since I basically know not to BD w/ 1 attempt right after +OPK, but to wait at least 12-24 hours first. But is that something Clomid is likely to affect?

Thanks!!

[Pbn3]

Abc still following your chart and so hopeful for you this cycle. Just thought I'd chime in with a possible suggestion while you're waiting for Atomics response. I would still have an attempt at pos opk because we don't know how clomid will affect your ovulation. Then plan to continue on with e4d (by that I mean 3 full days between between bd's, so example if your pos opk is cd14, bd that day and again cd18, cd22 etc or until you see a sustained shift and feel comfortable that you've oed. That will give you just one attempt regardless of when you o for your first cycle of clomid :) Good luck Abc!!! I'm looking forward to stalking your chart [emoji3]

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[ABC.2606]

Thanks Pbn!! That sounds like a good idea. It will be interesting to see how Clomid affects that time frame between +OPK and O. I am hoping it shortens it, as it's been a bit stressful waiting to see a temp shift for days after +OPK. It already seems to be affecting my bbt's which are slightly higher this cycle than they normally are.

[Pbn3]

That's totally normal (higher temps with clomid) what's great is that you've had a sustained drop (even though temp is still higher than normal) which should hopefully mean you have a nice clear shift/spike like usual at o and hopefully one to two days after pos opk this time!

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[Pbn3]

Abc I edited my first post as I'd written the e4d bd pattern wrong (the example of cd's to bd) [emoji23][emoji23] my math part of brain hasn't kicked in properly yet this morning!

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[ABC.2606]

Abc I edited my first post as I'd written the e4d bd pattern wrong (the example of cd's to bd) [emoji23][emoji23] my math part of brain hasn't kicked in properly yet this morning!

Sent from my SM-G900I using TapatalkNo worries I understood :) :)

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[ABC.2606]

Ok DH's SA came back!!!! His count is 99 million, so above average it seems.

Should we try hurry up FR? I should ovulate any day now!!!!!

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[atomic sagebrush]

Sure, if you'd like...release once, dump it, then as quickly as he's able to. Within an hour if possible, 3 is still good, hopefully within 6.

[ABC.2606]

Well he already released this morning and we're going to attempt tonight, so it will be more than 6 hours and I know that doesn't count as hurry up. But, he's really not sure he can even do 2 releases in less than 6 hours anyways - his libido just isn't that high. Oh well. Hopefully releasing 12 hours before will help us a little in reducing his sperm count. His morphology number was only 4% - normal is 4% or higher so his is normal but just barely - so even though he has more sperm maybe not as many can fertilize anyways being abnormal shape... Who knows...

Nothing I can do now but try to relax, get our 1 attempt in tonight, and pray :)

[atomic sagebrush]

OK.

That's how it goes with morphology, please don't worry about that. Morphology only matters when other markers are also bad. A guy with 99 million sperm has no worries with 4% morph.

[ABC.2606]

Ok that's good to know. Yea it seems like it make sense that with a higher sperm count the morphology number would be lower - since it's a % of all the sperm. He released 11 hours before our attempt last night - so we'll see! We both noticed that there was definitely less "material" then normal so hopefully that translates to less sperm. And we're definitely going to stick with that 1 attempt, as long as I confirm ovulation w/in the next couple of days.

[atomic sagebrush]

Great! Good luck!!

[ABC.2606]

We added an attempt in this morning :( I didn't want to (didn't want more than 1 attempt), but I've had 3 mornings now since +opk with no temp rise, and I felt like if I haven't ovulated yet, Thursday's attempt probably won't have much left. I'm getting SO frustrated with this long delay between +opk & temp rise. If this isn't our bfp cycle, I don't know how to approach the next cycle as far as timing our 1 attempt given that my body doesn't seem to ovulate in the normal 12-48 hours after LH surge.

Do you think long time (7 months now) swaying may be making this delay longer? With my bfp in August, I ovulated 2 days after surge (according to temp rise), last cycle I O'd 4 days after lh surge (also according to temp rise), and now I'm on morning #3 and still no temp rise. Could the long term "depletion" of my condition be extending the time between lh surge and O? This week was especially rough on my body too - I was eating less than normal (out of stress, busyness and swaying), working out a lot, and had either a stomach bug or IBS flare (hard to tell which - probably IBS).

And wouldn't Clomid hopefully shorten the time between lh surge & O?

Or, is it possible I'm ovulating earlier than I think and there's just a delay in the temp rise? This morning before our attempt I had no EWCM that I could see - seemed creamy/sticky.

As another note - I'm on CD16 and I never ovulate that late! My doctor said I might ovulate later on Clomid is that true?

Sorry for all the questions I'm just so confused/ frustrated :( :(

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[atomic sagebrush]

Clomid changes stuff. I think it's the Clomid.

People report all kinds of different OPK patterns with swaying so I can't say for sure from here.

You need to BD every 4 days from here on in. I think the first OPK you're getting may be false pos since temp has not risen.

[ABC.2606]

Well the thing is last cycle when this happened (O'd 4 days after +opk), I wasn't on Clomid. This is my first cycle on it. So I'm thinking maybe the swaying is the cause. Although when I got pregnant w/ my boys, my cycles were pretty much the same as they are now in terms of when I O'd and total cycle length. So who knows - maybe it's just the way my body works :(

My temp did finally rise as of Monday morning. But looking back and analyzing my chart with Pbn, we think it's possible I might have O'd sometime late Saturday/ early Sunday and there wasn't enough time for my Sunday morning temp to reflect that. That would have put my O day as 2 days after first +OPK - which seems more normal. We're wondering too if maybe it just takes me a little extra time for my temp to spike after O.

If not pregnant this cycle, would you advise BD E4D with 2 full days in between each BD or 3 days? I would be on cycle #2 of Clomid.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok. Yes definitely keep picking up with the e4d after one attempt

I have seen both - people taking a day or two longer for temp to rise AND people having a surge and then taking 3-4 days to O. I just can't know which is which unfortunately! The detecting O tech is really not great.

2 days between so you'd end up (worst case) having attempt O-3 and O Day.

[ABC.2606]

Ok, Atomic thanks. I got cross hairs today on FF and it said I O'd Sunday, but I'm just not sure that it's right (and the cross hairs are dotted so FF is not confident either!). I still think it's possible I O'ed Saturday/late Saturday. So I either had O-2 & O+1 attempts or O-3 and O day attempts - which I guess are not terrible in terms of girl sway. DH released about 11 hours before each of those attempts too so that may have cut down on the total sperm that made it in there :)

So I guess next cycle I'll do 1 attempt at +OPK, followed by another attempt after 2 full days have passed until I see temp rise.

[atomic sagebrush]

FX and TX! I agree no matter what you were in with well timed attempts BUT just for grins let's keep going with e4d still just in the off chance O was delayed and your temps are being tricky.

[ABC.2606]

Thanks Atomic. I've had 6 days of raised temps now so I definitely think I've O'd - guess it will be a mystery though whether it was on Saturday or Sunday :) Oh well - we'll see what happens in a few days!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes I agree you definitely ovulated! Can't say for sure what day but it happened!

[ABC.2606]

Hi Atomic - well last cycle did not work :( I'm on cycle 2 of Clomid so really want to give it my best efforts this cycle. I'm on CD7 - last day of Clomid. I have an u/s on the 21st (CD13) to check effects of Clomid & doc requested it on this day as it's when I often get a +opk.

So my thought is we'll attempt:
CD10
CD13
CD16
CD19 (I'm sure I will have ovulated before this though)

Is this a good plan?

He's releasing some before CD10 too (he's been sick with a bad cold so I've been keeping him away from me lol).

I still don't know if it's worth having him release once 12+ hours before our attempt. That 99 million sperm count still makes me nervous. I don't know how much effect it's having to release 12 hours before - whether it's even doing anything or if it's reducing it too much!

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[atomic sagebrush]

regular release though, right?? No FR.

I'd keep going after the CD 19 just in case

If you want better odds of conception I'd not do the release. If you think it will help your sway and you think it's worth the potentail trade off, then skip it. Unfortunately it's something I don't have the data to say.

[ABC.2606]

Ok. Yes definitely keep picking up with the e4d after one attempt

I have seen both - people taking a day or two longer for temp to rise AND people having a surge and then taking 3-4 days to O. I just can't know which is which unfortunately! The detecting O tech is really not great.

2 days between so you'd end up (worst case) having attempt O-3 and O Day.

OK, so I really think I might be one of the people who just has a longer delay in temp rise. Here's what happened this week:

CD11, Sunday: EWCM started
CD12, Monday: I got the first +OPK at 2:30 pm and another at 8 pm; lots of EWCM
CD13, Tuesday: I had a follicle ultrasound (b/c of being on Clomid) in the morning that showed two large follicles of 25 mm and 27.5 mm. Doctor said I hadn't ovulated yet although there was a bit of fluid, so O may have been just starting. I got a positive CB dual hormone in the morning, a +OPK at 2 pm, and a negative OPK at 7 pm.
CD14, Wednesday: Still EWCM: no temp rise
CD15, Thursday: Very dry, scant CM from morning all day long but no temp rise in the morning.
CD16, Friday: Temp rise

My temp on Thursday (yesterday) also may have not been totally accurate as my son woke me up up over an hour before I normally take my temp. So it maybe should have been a bit higher, and even taken an hour early it was at the top of my normal "pre O range". So all that being said, even though my temp rose today (Friday), I think with my u/s, the OPKs, and my CM, I likely O'ed before yesterday, probably sometime Wednesday/Wednesday night, and my temp took awhile to rise. I felt like that same thing happened last cycle. Does that seem to you like that's what's happening? A delayed temp rise, rather than a delayed O after OPK?

As far as BD attempts, we BD-ed on Saturday, CD10 and Tuesday, CD13 (right after I got back from the u/s that had showed O was likely coming soon!!). So hopefully we were ok on the timing!!

I think I'm done with temping though. It's gotten very stressful waiting for the temp rise after our attempt when it takes 2, 3, 4 days! Thinking I'm just going to use the OPKs, and my doc will likely continue to do the follicle u/s because of the Clomid. He said the other day he may even add in a trigger shot next cycle given how large the follicles got this month.

Sigh. Hopefully we just got pregnant this cycle! I'm over the TTC-ing thing! :) :) :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Clomid makes some weird stuff happen as well.

From what your doc described yes I think it's much more likely the temp was slow to rise.

Nothing wrong with trigger shot either though!!

well timed attempts!

[ABC.2606]

Atomic - I had a progesterone test done yesterday on CD20 - one week after my follicle u/s that showed the two large follicles. Based on what we talked about above, I think I probably O'd on CD13 or 14, so I would have been 6/7 dpo. My progesterone level was 17. Doc said that was a "good" level but that's all he really said. What do you think? Would the level be affected by whether or not I released 2 eggs versus 1?

[atomic sagebrush]

No, that's good. Anything over 10 means ovulated, anything over 12 even better! 20 is the average high so you're right where you need to be.

We can't tell how many eggs you released on that basis, sorry.

[ABC.2606]

Forgot to respond - thanks Atomic!

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[ABC.2606]

Looks like I'm going to lose another pregnancy. 14dpo and had betas yesterday. Progesterone dropped from 17 last week to 8.4 and hcg is only 13.

Can I pm you again? I don't know where to go from here. I'm crushed.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes of course ABC. :heart: