Blood testing before starting sway - Ca, Sodium, etc

[NeedAGirl!]

I am basically following the Dutch study and my diet starts Nov 1. Like in the study, I had my blood drawn today.

This is what it showed
Sodium 138
Potassium 4.3
Magnesium 1.9
Calcium 9.2

I am having it checked again after 5 weeks on the diet like they did in the study. Should be interesting!

[nuthinbutpink]

I think this is great! PLEASE KUP with the results. In fact, I am going to sticky this so we don't lose it!

[rainbowflower]

fascinating, good luck!

where did you find info of the Dutch diet BTW?

[love being a mummy]

Good idea, please keep us updated.

[NeedAGirl!]

I have access to the full study through my work. I believe that Atomic has it if you are a Dream member as well. All of my labs are technically normal for normal (non-swaying) people. My sodium is already pretty low - mine - 138 (Nl 135-145) but potassium is high - mine - 4.3 (nl 3.5-5). (not surprising since I eat a ton of potassium rich foods normally) My calcium is also lower - mine 9.2 (nl 9-10.5) and magnesium is lowish - mine 1.9 (nl 1.5-2.5).

As you can see, I have work to do! I was not taking any Ca when I conceived my 2 DSs nor doing any dairy. I never do a lot of sodium but both boys were conceived toward the end of summer - I always have a huge garden and am eating tons of potassium rich tomatoes, potatoes, fruits, etc.

I will have it done again after 5 weeks on the diet (like in the study) which should be mid-December. I will let you know what happens. In the study, the levels did not change by a whole lot but they did change. (usually by tenths of points - like from 9.2 to 9.6, etc) But if they did not change by 5 weeks, they increased the supplements and further restricted the diet which is what I will do. Cuz in the end, those who dieted hard enough to change their blood levels (AND did a 3 day cut off) had 82% girls!

[wocket]

interesting! Can't wait to see results

[atomic sagebrush]

Interesting! Following this with bated breath.

Out of curiosity, how did you get your doc to do the blood tests, or were you able to get them done via work?? A lot of people have to beg and plead for their doctor to order tests even when they are able to pay privately out of pocket.

[nuthinbutpink]

fascinating, good luck!

where did you find info of the Dutch diet BTW?

Yes, we have it in the member research reports. It is a study we had to purchase.

[NeedAGirl!]

So I had my blood rechecked today... It has been about 6 weeks on the diet. The first # is the value back in October and the second is now.

Sodium 138 141
Potassium 4.3 3.9
Magnesium 1.9 2.0
Calcium 9.2 9.4

So, what does this show? Probably that there is not much utility to having your blood drawn! Thought it was an interesting experiment though. I have been keeping track of all of my intake and I am eating WAY less sodium than normal (averaging about 500mg daily) and I am taking Calcium (666mg) and Magnesium (400). I was slightly more dehydrated today which is I am sure why the sodium is higher. I think blood sodium changes by the hour. Potassium is more diet driven so that decrease might actually be valid....

[NeedAGirl!]

Oh and to answer your earlier question - my doctor has 4 daughters and 1 son. She thought it was really interesting and did it willingly!

[atomic sagebrush]

So I had my blood rechecked today... It has been about 6 weeks on the diet. The first # is the value back in October and the second is now.

Sodium 138 141
Potassium 4.3 3.9
Magnesium 1.9 2.0
Calcium 9.2 9.4

So, what does this show? Probably that there is not much utility to having your blood drawn! Thought it was an interesting experiment though. I have been keeping track of all of my intake and I am eating WAY less sodium than normal (averaging about 500mg daily) and I am taking Calcium (666mg) and Magnesium (400). I was slightly more dehydrated today which is I am sure why the sodium is higher. I think blood sodium changes by the hour. Potassium is more diet driven so that decrease might actually be valid....

THANK YOU so much for updating. This is very important data for us to have because people can hear me say that the human body keeps very tight control over these minerals regardless of diet, but this is very illustrative of how tight that control can actually be!!! Thanks again, so, so very much.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and your body may have "felt" like it had to hold on to all available sodium because you weren't getting enough, so your blood levels may have been higher the second time because of that.

[NeedAGirl!]

If only I could have had my CM tested! HA! Imagine asking your doctor for that!

[atomic sagebrush]

I know. I so wish we had that ability at our disposal.

[Coco]

This was the study that drew me in too. I had my bloods taken - by my kids gp! Didn't think my own would approve and didn't want to do irreparable damage to the relationship. I've since learned that hair sample analysis might be a more accurate way of testing most mineral levels. some mineral levels can apparently fluctuate considerably in blood so hard to get an accurate picture. And my own gp told me that calcium is particularly unreliable as stored in bones. The hair analysis involves cutting about a tblspn of hair from near the base. Here in oz it costs about 130 and you get the results within 2 weeks. Got onto it through a natropath I started seeing who I've found to be fantastic. Just another option anyway. Best of luck coco xx

[aintnocinderella]

wow thank you ladies, amazing work. I wish i could have a a number of tests done and see the results. my lifestyle and attitude towards food has been very different this past year and having only found swaying 6 months ago i iwash i had resutls from way back when i had all of my ds's.do you knoe how your results compare to say someone of the same build type and size/weight or did they not provide those results?

[NeedAGirl!]

These are the normals - sodium (Nl 135-145) potassium (nl 3.5-5) calcium (nl 9-10.5) and magnesium (nl 1.5-2.5). The normal range is the same for anyone regardless of weight, gender, etc. Sodium I think is the least reliable as it is tightly controlled by the kidney and changes throughout the day. Calcium and potassium can be influenced by diet. I am not so sure about magnesium.

[atomic sagebrush]

cinderella, the body very tightly regulates the amounts of those minerals in the blood****** and the only people who go outside of those normal ranges have something seriously wrong with them or were on an extremely restrictive (to the point of life-threatening) diet. Regardless of size or body type, normal is normal with these because our bodies have mechanisms to keep them in a very tight range.

The levels of minerals in your blood will rise right after taking a supplement for a short period but then your body just stores/excretes what it doesn't want.

[aintnocinderella]

so what would be the point of a low sodium diet? i am currently doing the low everything diet and sodium the the most difficut for me and if i do slip up its always with junk food which is low nutrition but obvioucly high in calories and salt. i would love to have my testosterone levels etc too

[NeedAGirl!]

The point of low sodium diet is that we think we want sodium to be low in the fluid in the tubes and in the CM. Because sodium levels are so tightly regulated in the blood, if you are not eating much sodium, your body will draw sodium out of the other fluids in the body making them lower. For instance, the urine will have lower sodium. In the Dutch study, they also measured 24 hour excretion of sodium in the urine before and after the diet. Also, I believe that calcium probably sways. Excretion of calcium is tightly linked to sodium excretion. When you eat more sodium, your body needs to keep the blood levels within the normal range so excessive amounts are lost in the urine and it takes calcium with it.

[atomic sagebrush]

so what would be the point of a low sodium diet? i am currently doing the low everything diet and sodium the the most difficut for me and if i do slip up its always with junk food which is low nutrition but obvioucly high in calories and salt. i would love to have my testosterone levels etc too

The point of keeping to the low sodium restriction is that a) it's relatively easy for people to do b) better for your health overall anyway c) sodium was the one thing that BOTH the Oxford study and the FGD agreed on - women who ate less sodium had more daughters. It may have been a coincidence because moms who ate less CALORIES had more daughters and if you eat less calories, you get less sodium by default, kWIM?

My thinking on the sodium is, it's good for you anyway, can't hurt, may help, let's leave it in in case there is some benefit to be had. But if you have to cheat, I suspect that a sodium cheat is the "best" cheat because people all aroudn the world eat massive amounts of sodium and still have boys and girls 50-50.

[atomic sagebrush]

The point of low sodium diet is that we think we want sodium to be low in the fluid in the tubes and in the CM. Because sodium levels are so tightly regulated in the blood, if you are not eating much sodium, your body will draw sodium out of the other fluids in the body making them lower. For instance, the urine will have lower sodium. In the Dutch study, they also measured 24 hour excretion of sodium in the urine before and after the diet. Also, I believe that calcium probably sways. Excretion of calcium is tightly linked to sodium excretion. When you eat more sodium, your body needs to keep the blood levels within the normal range so excessive amounts are lost in the urine and it takes calcium with it.

Sounds great but unfortunately not supported by real world facts. Africans and African Americans are genetically predisposed to retain high levels of sodium in the blood and the vast majority of adult African/AA are lactose intolerant and eat very little dairy. They have the most daughters of any ethnic group on the planet.

[aintnocinderella]

i have to say what got me thinking was that there is a girl at my work has three daughters. she is a little larger in frame and eats a ton of junk food including loads of mcdonalds. since working with her before lunch she will likely eat a packet of crisps, a cup a soup, chocolate bar and if someoen is going to the bakery a pastry too. What do we think could be the cause of so many girls for Africans and AA then?

[Ribbons]

I also recently had a comprehensive panel done, and will have another at the end of April - right before I TTC. I'm also taking the recommended supps from the Dutch Study (actually FGD, I think they are the same as far as supps go?), and doing a sort of FGD/LE hybrid (restricting calories, protein, fat, sodium, potassium, watching glucose, but still eating meat occasionally and dairy).

Here are my current numbers:

Sodium 140 mmol/L (ref. 135-146)
Potassium 3.9 mmol/L (ref. 3.5-5.3)
Calcium 9.2 mg/dL (ref. 8.6 - 10.2)
Magnesium was not tested.

My diet before this swaying adventure was moderate in calcium, moderate/low in potassium and high in sodium, so these numbers look pretty "normal" for my typical diet.

Also, just because I am curious, I'm also listing my lipid profile (I've read that low-sodium diets can raise cholesterol, and I have really good numbers typically):

Total Cholesterol: 215 mg/dL (ref. 125-200) This is high because I eat a primal diet, a lot of animal protein with a lot of saturated fat.
Triglycerides: 51 mg/dL (ref. <150)
Cholesterol, VLDL: 10 mg/dL (ref. <30)
Cholesterol, LDL: 102 mg/dL (ref. <130)
Cholesterol, HDL: 103 mg/dL (ref. >=46)
Cholesterol/LDL Ratio: 2.1 (ref. <=5.0)
LDL/HDL Ratio: .99 (below average risk - avg. risk is 2.35-4.12)

Will be interesting to see what it reads after a few months on pretty much the OPPOSITE diet of what I usually eat!

Edited To Add:
(fasting) glucose: 92 mg/dL (ref. 65-99) FYI, my family has a history of diabetes, so I have to watch this.

Interesting note: I remember I drank a cup of coffee about 2 hours before I tested here with about 2 tbsp of half & half, so for anyone interested, even the tiniest amount will raise your glucose. Another test around the same time (yes, I had more than one done, long story LOL) had my fasting glucose at 73 mg/dL, that time I had NOTHING in my tummy.

[atomic sagebrush]

i have to say what got me thinking was that there is a girl at my work has three daughters. she is a little larger in frame and eats a ton of junk food including loads of mcdonalds. since working with her before lunch she will likely eat a packet of crisps, a cup a soup, chocolate bar and if someoen is going to the bakery a pastry too. What do we think could be the cause of so many girls for Africans and AA then?

A lot of people will not agree with me on this but the FGD can't explain the discrepancy.

My take is that I think both very high and very low salt intake sway pink and I also think that low calcium intake also sways pink. Since people of African heritage have more sodium in their bodies to start with and are almost all genetically inable to eat dairy and so have lower calcium intake, this is a 1-2 punch of more sodium, less calcium = more girls. Blue swayers can get away with the high sodium intake of the TTC boy diet because they increase their potassium and potassium counteracts some of the negative effects of high sodium, and also because when you decrease cal/mag thru diet, your body simply takes whatever it needs from your bones and teeth to make up for it and the levels in your blood do not change one iota. If the levels of cal/mag in your blood actually changed outside of a very narrow range, you would DIE.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks for sharing this info Ribbons!

Did you happen to have Vit. D tested??

[Ribbons]

Thanks for sharing this info Ribbons!

Did you happen to have Vit. D tested??

I didn't!! I wish... I thought that they were going to test for it b/c I have had low levels in the past (hence why I was taking CLO), but for some reason it wasn't on there. I am going to ask for it next time though.. even though we won't have a basis of comparison, it's better than nothing. I am going to surmise that it would be normal or high however, I was taking a LOT of CLO and eating a LOT of full-fat raw dairy at the time of the test.

Oh, I am going to add my glucose # above too, forgot about that!

[Girlsway]

Hi,

I have two boys and planning on having one last child and naturally Id like pink. I came across the Dutch study too and I am planning on having the blood tests done too. Are you following Annets diet? I wish I knew what exactly was it. I left message on her mobile and I also emailed her but no response. Do you have more info please?

How are you finding your sway sofar and when are you TTC?

xx

[Girlsway]

I joined the members team and I read all about now x

[harleyquinn]

I have my blood tests from about 7 months ago (after conceiving a baby boy) and the set I got a few weeks ago (newly pregnant with gender unknown) and there were some marked differences, I thought.

I know this thread is super old but its still stickied so maybe some more results in here could tell us something in the long run.

OK:

Calcium went from 9.2 up to 9.8 (truly a mystery as i eat ZERO dairy)

Sodium went from 139 down to 136.

Potassium went from 4.3 to 3.8

Glucose was 80 on both. (non-fasting)

Other levels improved such as iron and blood clotting factors which makes me happy but did likely improve my maternal condition.

SO...if I have a boy, those ttc a boy can take comfort that having high calcium levels in blood and eating very little sodium will not be a dealbreaker :) And as far as potassium, I rarely eat potatoes or bananas or tomatoes and I already have conceived 5 boys :)

I don't know what made my levels change, I wasn't doing LE diet more of a "life circumstances diet" such as from losing a baby etc.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you, very helpful. Your calcium has gone up probably because your body is taking calcium from your bones and teeth and/or has begun collecting calcium anywhere it can get it from the foods you eat. Your body has ways of getting that calcium even without dairy (and that's a good thing since humans couldn't even eat dairy foods until 15000-8000 years ago and may not even have been widespread until 3-5000 years ago.

[Bigwish]

So, if i'm right... High calcium in the blood is a sign of declining maternal health when ii is coming from the bones? I was wondering if i should take calcium supps in my girl sway because i do not eat much dairy. But i think i leave that out.


My considerations are as follows:
Less calcium in blood --> body takes it from the bones --> more calcium in blood --> less calcium in bones --> indication of decreased maternal health. --> sways pink
(There are indications that dairy extracts calcium from bones, is that right?)

Calcium supps --> more calcium in blood & same level in bones --> no indication of decreased maternal health --> possibly sways blue??

Also less exercise probably increases calcium levels in the blood then, because no exercise will lead to decreased bone density, right?

It makes sense to me, to you too? Or am i talking nonsense?

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't think we can say or know at all and so all it is, is guesswork. The thing I like about this thread is that it shows that the levels of the electrolytes in your blood have nothing to do with what you're getting/eating. I don't think we can read any more into it than that. It does make some sense but I'm not entirely sure our uterus can tell our bone health directly like that.

High calcium levels in the blood are not normal. Your calcium/sodium/potassium/magnesium levels are meant to stay within a very narrow range. Yes, your body takes calcium form your bones when you don't ahve any and it takes more/less from the foods you eat but if your calcium goes outside a very narrow range, you DIE. So in this thread we are talking about tiny fluctuations and not big changes.

[Bigwish]

Thanks, that's true,we are only talking of small ranges... Hmm, it's quite confusing! So frustrating we don't exactly know how it works...

[harleyquinn]

What I wonder about with bloodwork like this, is if its like testing your pH...it can change very quickly. Once I was in the hospital for low potassium but that was fixed overnight with an IV, yk?
On the other hand, some things are really hard to fix and change like iron or the Vit D or B12 deficiencies, so Idk.
I was just really suprised at the calcium for me because I used to eat yogurt fairly consistently but dropped that a few months ago, mostly because of price (a container runs about $7.50 where I live :rolleyes:), I hate milk with a passion (and its $6 a jug LOL)

[Bigwish]

I know potassium levels can heavily fluctuate but not in healthy people. High levels are seen in people with kidney failures. Low levels can be seen after severe vomitting and diarrea, for example.

I think some minerals can fluctuate more than others.

[onebigwish]

Hello there !

I know this is an old thread but i wanted you ladies to look at my results from the blood test please...

Calcium : 2.41 (NL 2.16-2.62)
Magnesium : 0.71 (NL 0.75-1.00) mine is low
Natrium: 139 (NL 134-150)
Potassium: 4.3 (NL 3.5-5.6)

what are the ranges ttc a Girl ?

[EveSweetheart]

Wow, your doctor is really brave!:omg:

[atomic sagebrush]

Hello there !

I know this is an old thread but i wanted you ladies to look at my results from the blood test please...

Calcium : 2.41 (NL 2.16-2.62)
Magnesium : 0.71 (NL 0.75-1.00) mine is low
Natrium: 139 (NL 134-150)
Potassium: 4.3 (NL 3.5-5.6)

what are the ranges ttc a Girl ?


There ARE NO ranges TTC a girl. that is the point of this thread. There are normal ranges and that's it. Biologically, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get out of those ranges without either being very ill or making yourself very ill.

[Einatwishh]

Hey, what's the name of research ???

[atomic sagebrush]

I"m sorry, can you be more specific?? What research in particular?

[atomic sagebrush]

I did want to update this because we had a blue swayer recently who also had the bloodwork done before and after sway diet and eating tons of sodium and taking potassium supps, and she too saw NO changes whatsoever. This idea doesn't work. It cannot work. The levels in your body stay the same always and forever unless you are very, very ill. It's called homeostasis.

We have all but given up the sodium aspect for pink sways and our results have only gone UP.

[Einatwishh]

Hey , I 'll start on Sunday in the diet , the morning will do blood tests . Another three weeks will do blood tests again . I will updet the total site . I'm very curious to see the results ...

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