Help needed with girl sway plan please

[jgojah]

Hey everyone, I really need some guidance with my sway please.

I'm 37 and have 2 sons (femara). I had/have pcos. After my second son, my cycles are regular for the first time ever @ 32 days and I'm ovulating on cd17. I'm 5' and 92lbs, bmi 18.2. I do have a tiny frame but I have quite a bit of belly fat. I've been mostly vegetarian for about 4 months now and I do snack ALOT. I usually exercise 6-7 days a week doing mainly strength training...i definitely don't think it's a good idea for me to do le pcos diet plus 1 hr of cardio daily, as I think I would disappear lol

My proposed meal plan (le pcos) is:
Breakfast (14 hrs after dinner) - fruit smoothie with protein powder & 1/2 tsp cinnamon or peanut butter & whole grain sandwich
Lunch - 1/2 cup whole grain carbs, 1/2 peas, 1 cup veg
Snack - a few wheat thins
Dinner - grilled cheese (vegetarian) & 3/4 cup of chocolate milk

This should add up to be roughly 1200 calories 35fat 35protein

Is it ok to add in a sweet snack? Like a chocolate bar or piece of brownie?

Should I do the diet for at least 6 weeks or 12 weeks before my attempt ?

Also, I'm really stuck on what to do about exercise/no exercise. I didn't exercise before my first son but I was doing 21 day fix (beachbody) when I got pregnant with my second.

We plan on following e4d for our attempt.

DH also does beachbody programmes and has a mostly vegetarian diet.

That's as far as I've reached in my plan! Looking forward to hearing from you ladies.

[atomic sagebrush]

Being fully vegetarian isn't always best for PCOSers. Please check out the alternate diets in this thread they will be better, possibly, than a straight veg diet https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

You need 50-60 g fat and protein. You are not eating enough and too much of what you're eating is carbs. We want to keep your PCO under control while swaying.

I cannot recommend sweets for PCOSers but if you get the other stuff under control and then need on occasion a little smackerel of something it won't be a dealbreaker.

PCOSers need to exercise. You really, really need to because the benefits to you are greater than they are to others. EVen if youcan't get up to the full 6-7 days a week recommendation, you need to exercise.

Do not lose any more weight. You're already below my minimum cutoff and you'll stop ovulating

Welcome to the site, BTW!

[jgojah]

Thanks so much for your response atomic!

I've actually been trying to be vegetarian off of some advice from my doctor. He says the vegetarian diet helps to reduce inflammation throughout the body. So I've been trying it for the past 4 months and when I read that vegetarians were getting great results, I got excited lol

Do you think it would be ok to get the protein I require from protein powder, more than the peas (I know the peas are also carby)

I actually read PART of that thread which is where I came up with my plan (obviously I didn't do a great job). Now that you've mentioned it, I do eat alot of carbs!
I tried to use meals from the lists you have there ("eat everyday", "2-3 times pick 1" etc) and I just decided not to choose the meat. Am I interpreting it incorrectly ? Or do I just need to choose more from the 5 times a day list and add more veg?

I also read in your easay that fat should be 30% of calories and on a 1200 cal diet that would be about 25g fat ? Is it because I weigh so little, I need the 50-60g fat ? Or should I be eating more calories?

You mentioned not to lose weight but from all my reading on the site, isn't a big part of pink sway losing a bit of weight ?

With respect to exercise, I do have an issue with my back that prevents me from doing intense cardio and I don't think I can make 1 hr each day 6-7 times a week. After I posted, I read that if I can't make the 1hr each day that I should go the couch potato route?

I also want to add that I'm at my heaviest, non pregnant weight. I conceived my first at 79lbs and my 2nd at 85lbs (not anorexic, I usually eat ALOT - always alot of carbs and meat)...i guess I am just very tiny and have a fast metabolism. - don't know if this is important information or not but I thought I would mention it.

As you can see i'm clearly confused as to what's the best option for me....i really appreciate your advice

[atomic sagebrush]

And that's fine if you want to try it, just be sure you're getting 50-60 g protein and 50-60 g fat

I would prefer you used dairy (full fat only) and eggs to get your protein and not rely on protein powder.

The PCOS-type diet ALWAYS needs to be 50 g fat minimum because by keeping cals the same and eating a higher % protein and fat this effectively cuts carbs without thinking about it.

You are already in pink range for BMI and CANNOT lose more weight. You are already below my minimum cutoff for weight, it is not open for debate, if you lose more wieght you will stop ovulating and it can be very difficult getting it going again.

[atomic sagebrush]

For those with PCOS you need to exercise even if it's just moderate. It helps with weight loss and blood sugar control.

I understand you've been historically very petite but I have those cutoffs there for a reason. Do what you think is best, all I can say is that I've seen nothing but disaster with people dropping below 18.5.

[jgojah]

Oooooooh! That is an excellent point about my BMI. Now that you've mentioned that to me, i'm realizing that the reason I'm ovulating on my own for the first time since I've been trying with DS#1 is probably because I actually gained weight! *mind blown * lol

You are so insightful and knowledgeable....i've been reading some of your essays and WOW!!!!!!!!!!

Ok so I read over your pcos essay and i THINK I understand now wrt the diet and I agree, it really is very difficult to ensure I get enough protein without some meat. Maybe I can do chicken in the portions outlined in the 5 times a day portion of your essay. Also, what are your thoughts on tuna, salmon and foods made with coconut milk (like curries)

This is what I came up with after reading your essay again:

Bfast (14 hrs after dinner) fruit and veg smoothie, 1 egg with 1 slice of whole grain bread

Lunch 1/2c rice, 1c stir fry veg, 1 piece of baked chicken breast (twice a week) and something like vegetarian zucchini or eggplant lasagna (not sure if this would be too much cheese?) with fresh salad on other days

Snack 16 wheat thins or some carrots

Dinner 3/4c full fat chocolate milk and crackers with cream cheese or vegetable soup

This should be about 1200 cal, 60 protein, 51 fat

I've been reading up on caffeine...should I add in coffee daily? And if yes, is it not wise to add sugar? Would i have to drink it black?

Lastly, i definitely get your point about exercise and i really want to do it (because I like it!) but i am a little worried that i will lose alot of weight if i do cardio. Apart from my back issue, i stopped doing cardio a few years ago and picked up strength training because i was just losing too much weight (and as you mentioned, this isn't an option for me). What would you suggest ? I've been reading that some ladies do some brisk walking but I don't know if their sway was eventually successful or not... would 1/2 hr to 1 hr walking daily be sufficient as cardio?
Sorry I'm being so difficult with the exercise issue, I really would not want to continue the strength training if any muscle gain will raise my testosterone level and potentially sway boy.

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: especially taking that into consideration I just really strongly urge against you losing any more weight at all!

:agree: eating a bit of meat here and there for protein is totally allowed

:agree: coco milk is fine as long as you're within limits for the day

I want to be sure you're not counting anything in low carb veg (like eggplant or zucchini) those are free and unlimited

Re the exercise, what I'd like to see is you eating more calories and then trying to include some exercise. This approach has been effective for us.

[jgojah]

Ok great! Thank you sooo much! I think i understand wrt the calories, protein and fat

Just to clarify a few things:

1) coffee - recommended for pcos swayers as well? If yes, do I have to drink black ?

2) exercise - I'm really afraid of messing up this part. Is walking ok or should I look for some more intense cardio?

3) femara - I do have a prescription for femara but since I got my 2 boys using it, do you think it's not a good sway tactic for me ?

[atomic sagebrush]

1)yes as long as you're not hitting it hard on a lot of refined carbs! No you can have cream and artificial sweetener

2)I prefer walking as people tend to get injured doing more strenuous exercise than that

3)Femara is the best of the best sway tactic there is. It is NOT a guarantee but I assure you that the reason you got boys in the past was not because of Femara, but in spite of it. I always recommend Clomid or Femara for those who can get them

[jgojah]

i can't thank you enough atomic! i really appreciate you taking the time to respond to all of my questions, even though you've probably answered them in some form a million times already.

do you think i can benefit from purchasing a sway plan? or is that more for couples who have been on the diet for some period of time and aren't getting preg?

[atomic sagebrush]

Sway plans are for anyone who wants them! I just make them all for whatever set of circumstances each couple is in!

[jgojah]

Thanks atomic. I'm trying to decide on the package to purchase and have a quick question about the 21 day meal plan. Is this for pcos swayers as well ?

[atomic sagebrush]

most of the recipes will work no matter what but it's not specifically for PCOSers.

[jgojah]

Hi atomic, I purchased a custom plan yesterday but haven't received any email or guidance on how to access the questionnaires. I logged out and in numerous times and even clicked on links I found from other threads (but it takes me to enter my sway information) .

Can you help me please.

[atomic sagebrush]

I'll message someone who can help.

[jgojah]

thanks! i got them :)

[jgojah]

Hey atomic

Not sure if you would remember me so I decided to respond on my original thread...i hope this is ok.

Just to recap though, I'm on le pcos diet since end of january, 1500 cals, at the limit for fats but maybe a little under with protein (maybe like 45?)

I exercised 60 mins 6 times a week for about 8 weeks but have since stopped as I was losing too much weight and it was actually a little stressful for me. I'm holding steady with my weight now.

In terms of attempts, first month we did FR and then one attempt at opk. With both boys DH had low sperm count so 2nd month i decided to let him release every other day when I got my period and we bd e4d plus attempt at pos opk. This month I just really wanted to be pregnant so we actually attempted everyday from positive opk.

I know it's just been three months but as I am on femara do you have any tips to boost my chances diet wise ? I'm 38 so wondering if my egg quality is on the poorer side? I know every cycle is different but femara worked for me the first time with both sons so I'm wondering if the diet at my age is reducing my egg quality too much ? I used opks for 2 or 3 months before our first attempt and each month I got 2 days of positive opks and confirmed O with temps. So I do believe I am ovulating even on my own.

What would you recommend for this cycle?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that's fine, and of course I remember you! :)

I want you to up protein to the 50-60 g range and keep cals the same (unless you need to increase them for slowing down weight loss). That will help with egg quality.

I would have you do every 4 days plus one more attempt at positive OPK. I think that's a good balance between swaying and conceiving. Believe it or not BD daily from pos OPK isn't always going to be your best shot of conceiving depending on when you ovulate in relation to that pos OPK because some husbands can be totally depleted before the egg rolls around. Or, you can go to SMEP for absolute max chances of conception.

We can also do things like add in Preseed or guaifenesin to boost odds of conception if you want to (these may sway blue though)

Are you doing anything like hot bath/tighty whitey for DH, or shallow release, or immediate J and D??

[jgojah]

Ahhh ok ! So will up protein. Do you think I should do like an egg a day and introduce salmon and avocado ? Right now most fats come from cheese ,cream cheese, milk...pretty much dairy and I know dairy isn't necessarily good for pcos.

Also, I know this will probably sway blue but asking still...what do u think of a prenatal for egg quality ? Or are those really just to aid in fetal development?

And yes, sigh...i think that could be what happened with our last attempts...i think it was too much for DH's count.

Question about the SMEP...just googled it and it seems similar to what we did last cycle? That is attempt daily for 3 days from positive opk ? We didnt attempt after that though? If I'm understanding it well, maybe the SMEP isn't for us?

I think the e4d is probably good stress wise too...if I want to drop opks, should we skip every 2 days or so? So like mon, thurs, sun pattern?

DH isn't doing anything like tighty whites...no exercise...no OLE either

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes absolutely! Full fat dairy is actually fine for PCOS, it's the skim you have to avoid. The older research that claimed dairy was bad for PCOS did not differentiate between them (same with gestational diabetes) so there's a dairy stigma that full fat dairy does not deserve.

Prenatals don't do anything for egg quality. I so wish they did, but that's why there are websites full of women struggling with fertility because they're all taking them, but they just don't fix anything (unless you were deficient). What you could do if you want to is take them 3x a week as a kind of compromise in case you were low in anything. But really the best thing you can do is to up that protein and stick with the PCOS-type diet as it's going to be best for egg quality.

Yes that's my concern about what you guys did last month. Let's say for the sake of argument that you ovulate early or late (not saying that's what happened last month, it could easily just not have been THE month) and now you've pinned all your hopes on the pos OPK attempts. That's why I like the e4d or SMEP approach, because the attempts keep going and if you miscalculate when O is going to happen, you are still in with attempt. (and I prefer even with SMEP that you BD every other day for a few days after the pos OPK attempts) EVen just an extra day or so on either side can make a huge difference.

I am probably missing something here because I just cooked a 4th meal and am exhausted LOL but I'm not following what you mean by "skip every 2 days". Are you saying "give it 2 days between go-rounds" - YES that's exactly what I mean. Mon/Thurs/Sun/Wed and so on. And then if you want to drop OPK but still have an improved chance of conception, if at any point u recognize any ovulation signs like high libido or lots of EWCM that you associate with O time, hit it with another attempt at that point while continuing with the e4d attempts.

[jgojah]

Thanks atomic! I didn't think just the increase of protein would be enough to help the egg quality. When you start to Google you see soooooo many things...i saw coq10, inositol...i even saw some new research about women with pcos age and testosterone decreases too much and that is what's causing poor egg quality. Google can so be the devil at times!!! So much conflicting info that can drive people insane!

Fantastic idea with the vitamins. Definitely going to try that.

I now get the SMEP...and I think we will try the eod idea you have with it.

Thanks thanks and more thanks ! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I know it's so weird but yes just these little teensy switches in macros can make a real difference with egg quality. As u know already PCOS can be really improved just by getting a bit less carbs, a bit more fat/protein even keeping everything else the same. Just read a study that showed even just eliminating one sugary drink a day may make a huge difference in egg quality even when all other things are kept the same.

You can take coq if you want to - I was pretty hopeful about that about 2 years ago and was giving it to lots of people but unfortunately it really did not seem to help and I've moved away from it because it is super expensive.

Inositol I have mixed emotions about. I think it is kind of a cheat version of what you're already doing via diet and when people are adding it onto diet (instead of instead of making diet changes) it has seemed to prevent conception.

Ooh that sounds like an intriguing study, I'll have to track that down.

[atomic sagebrush]

I know it's so weird but yes just these little teensy switches in macros can make a real difference with egg quality. As u know already PCOS can be really improved just by getting a bit less carbs, a bit more fat/protein even keeping everything else the same. Just read a study that showed even just eliminating one sugary drink a day may make a huge difference in egg quality even when all other things are kept the same.

You can take coq if you want to - I was pretty hopeful about that about 2 years ago and was giving it to lots of people but unfortunately it really did not seem to help and I've moved away from it because it is super expensive.

Inositol I have mixed emotions about. I think it is kind of a cheat version of what you're already doing via diet and when people are adding it onto diet (instead of instead of making diet changes) it has seemed to prevent conception.

Ooh that sounds like an intriguing study, I'll have to track that down.

[jgojah]

Hey atomic, I thought I replied yesterday...not sure what happened.

These are the sites I visited: Androgen | HealthyWomen (http://www.healthywomen.org/condition/androgen)

https://www.centerforhumanreprod.com/video-gallery/video/lean-pcos-can-result-in-fertility-implications/

The first link got me wondering if that's the reason my periods are now regular and i have such a low sex drive since my second son (sex drive was through the roof before LOL).

Of course I am a random crazy googler so I have no idea if there's any truth to what is mentioned in those links...if you get a chance to check it out would love to hear your thoughts.

Personally, I do think my issue may just be to get my diet within the proper limits. I think I worry too much about the carbs and it causes me to eat less than I should be eating.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think that it's all very speculative and while I'm intrigued by the concept I'm not ready to sign off on it. But I will say this - over the last few years I have seen a trend where women with PCO-tendencies have gone onto these super restrictive diets and taken lots of herbs to "lower testosterone" then still had a very hard time getting pregnant (seemingly harder than they'd had in the first place, in many cases!). So this is definite evidence to me about not going onto myoinositol...may lower things even further.

I believe the way PCOS works is that you can change your diet and exercise OR you can do herbs and stuff. Some people don't change their diet/exercise (or they have a lot of weight to spare to start out with) and then adding the herbs for them can maybe work for them. But I think diet and exercise is by far the best way to correct PCO-tendencies, and when people are doing BOTH diet/exercise and the herbs then it seems to be entirely possible to go too far in the other direction - now whether that's down to lower testosterone and egg quality as this theory says or what I suspect, which is by lowering estrogen so far that it basically renders us subfertile - either way it I believe this to be a very real risk of going overboard treating PCOS.

The good news is that it's the same fix, since testosterone and estrogen are made of the same stuff. It's the good old, full fat dairy daily (even 2x a day) 4-6 eggs a week, salmon if you like it, red meat if you don't (and if you're ready to take it this far, try adding in salmon 1x and red meat 1x a week) And do this at the same time as you boost calories overall (if you need to) via small amounts of whole grains, fruits, and veg and get more fat (50-60 g) from primarily vegetable sources like olive oil and also drop fiber at the same time if you haven't already. This will give your body the raw materials it needs to keep making testosterone, estrogen, progesterone without aggravating any underlying PCO-tendencies.

[jgojah]

This post made me smile! Thank you SO much.

Another egg quality question for you - How long does it take for the diet (salmon etc) to improve egg quality? Should I give it 3 months and then try again?

[atomic sagebrush]

It will immediately improve your ability to get and stay pregnant by boosting estrogen and progesterone. We do not even know that your issue is egg quality and so I do not want you to hold off on trying for some amount of time thinking "this is how long I need to improve my eggs" because for all we know, we'd miss out on Goldie the Golden Egg by doing that!

[jgojah]

thanks atomic! another question (hope it's not too much of a crystal ball question). I have femara for 2 more cycles. i honestly panicked a bit and was too anxious this cycle so I didn't take it. I felt like after the second month on femara, my temps didn't drop as much as they ALWAYS do for pre O and so the rise in temp post O wasn't as significant. i don't know if any of that has any bearing on my fertility but it all made me panic about wasting the femara lol
so i decided to take this month off to see if my temps "normalize" and see how i feel next cycle.

i agree with your advice on not holding out on trying but on the other hand i feel so nervous that i would be wasting the femara ...i think i'm just looking for some advice from someone who is way more experienced with all of this TTC stuff.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's normal to see changes in temps on Femara because it affects estrogen levels. This is how the Femara works for fertility, and likely how it sways, so I do urge you to not let changes in temps prevent you from using it. In fact many docs will tell people not to temp while on it because it will be so much harder to see the variations in temp before and after O.

[jgojah]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh!!! As always, thanks so much atomic!!! It would be awesome if by some miracle I conceive this cycle but if I don't, I'll take the femara next cycle. :pray:

[atomic sagebrush]

Good luck!!!!!

[jgojah]

Atoooooommmiccccc!!!!!! You are sooooooooooooooooooo awesome!!!
40036

:running::running::running:

[atomic sagebrush]

AAAA OMGosh I am soooo excited for you!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: I know this has been a long road, I am so thrilled to see this beautiful sight! :heart:

[jgojah]

I may not have really swayed coming down to the end but I am eternally grateful to you for all your advice! :bowdown: Never in my wildest dreams did I think I could get pregnant on my own :D

[atomic sagebrush]

You did, though. That's what people always say when they've had to relax over time but NOTHING erases all the time you've put in and all those signals that you sent to your body. FX and pink dust headed your way!!

[jgojah]

Hey atomic, so according to panorama test results we're having a HEALTHY BABY GIRL. :running::cheer:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, i feel so excited but afraid to believe it at the same time :nails::nails::nails:

[atomic sagebrush]

WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Believe it - the Panoramas are more reliable than any ultrasound!

[Mick84]

Hey everyone, I really need some guidance with my sway please.

I'm 37 and have 2 sons (femara). I had/have pcos. After my second son, my cycles are regular for the first time ever @ 32 days and I'm ovulating on cd17. I'm 5' and 92lbs, bmi 18.2. I do have a tiny frame but I have quite a bit of belly fat. I've been mostly vegetarian for about 4 months now and I do snack ALOT. I usually exercise 6-7 days a week doing mainly strength training...i definitely don't think it's a good idea for me to do le pcos diet plus 1 hr of cardio daily, as I think I would disappear lol

My proposed meal plan (le pcos) is:
Breakfast (14 hrs after dinner) - fruit smoothie with protein powder & 1/2 tsp cinnamon or peanut butter & whole grain sandwich
Lunch - 1/2 cup whole grain carbs, 1/2 peas, 1 cup veg
Snack - a few wheat thins
Dinner - grilled cheese (vegetarian) & 3/4 cup of chocolate milk

This should add up to be roughly 1200 calories 35fat 35protein

Is it ok to add in a sweet snack? Like a chocolate bar or piece of brownie?

Should I do the diet for at least 6 weeks or 12 weeks before my attempt ?

Also, I'm really stuck on what to do about exercise/no exercise. I didn't exercise before my first son but I was doing 21 day fix (beachbody) when I got pregnant with my second.

We plan on following e4d for our attempt.

DH also does beachbody programmes and has a mostly vegetarian diet.

That's as far as I've reached in my plan! Looking forward to hearing from you ladies.

Sorry, I disliked your post by accident! 🙈

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh don't worry that "dislike" button is super easy to hit on accident! WE all assume that any "dislikes" are accidental. :)

[jgojah]

WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Believe it - the Panoramas are more reliable than any ultrasound!

yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i can't thank you enough! you've made two of my biggest dreams come through :hug2::awe:

[atomic sagebrush]

It's my pleasure! Enjoy every moment, you deserve it! :) :heart: