E4D

[vickyi228]

Is doing it Monday & Thursday or Monday &friday ?


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[4blue2pink]

we did Monday & Friday (3 clear days between each bd), Monday & Thursday seemed a bit too close together for me, you could start out with Mon & Fri and switch to Mon & Thurs if you dont get a bfp after a few months?

Good Luck!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Either.

If you want better odds of conception, do it Mon/Thurs

Better odds of pink and are ok with lower chances of conception, do it Mon/Fri

[Kazzz]

Either.

If you want better odds of conception, do it Mon/Thurs

Better odds of pink and are ok with lower chances of conception, do it Mon/Fri


Hi again atomic, just a quick question we did our attempt cd14 got pos opk both cd16 and cd17. cd18 will be E4D but both within fertile window that is if CD 18night isn't to late. Do you think dtd both cd14 and cd18 will be a good idea? I do want to conceive ASAP over the diet. Does E4D get great results or is 1 attempt getting better results? Thanks a ton. Also I'm using a finger tip of acijel an hour before attempt.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes I want you to BD again CD 18 to guard against delayed ovulation. Your odds of conception would be quite slim if you O on CD 18 or beyond (which is possible.)

E4d has gotten good results although I still have more faith in one attempt (because most of the people who do e4d are on diet longer and may have fertility challenges that mean they may be more "set" for pink than the highly fertile folks who get pregnant easily with one attempt)

[Kazzz]

Yes I want you to BD again CD 18 to guard against delayed ovulation. Your odds of conception would be quite slim if you O on CD 18 or beyond (which is possible.)

E4d has gotten good results although I still have more faith in one attempt (because most of the people who do e4d are on diet longer and may have fertility challenges that mean they may be more "set" for pink than the highly fertile folks who get pregnant easily with one attempt)



I didn't ovulate cd16 yesterday because this morning temp still down so if I ovulate today cd17 or cd18 will the cd14 attempt have a good chance? I think I'm more likely to ovulate today cd17 based on passed cycles. So thats 1 attempt 3 days before the egg is available. We also did CR and aci-jel. Also if we did cd18 we would do CR and aci-jel again. Are my chances very low from cd14? And would my chances be alot better but still pink if we add on cd18?

[atomic sagebrush]

No, it won't. Your chances are all but nil from CD 14.

That's why I want you to have another attempt CD 18 if that's the way you're doing the e4d (some would have attempt CD 17 for the "every 72 hour" pattern of e4d.

What is CR?

[Kazzz]

No, it won't. Your chances are all but nil from CD 14.

That's why I want you to have another attempt CD 18 if that's the way you're doing the e4d (some would have attempt CD 17 for the "every 72 hour" pattern of e4d.

What is CR?



It's compressed release 1 release outside 45mins before attempt. Also today's cd18 temp has gone up so any chance cd14 will do it since I ovulated yesterday cd17? Also i ment I used rephresh cd14. But i have acijel for next cycle.

If I leave it at that for this cycle next cycle I'll have clomid am I better off to wait for that cycle and use the clomid? Also how do I use it? My cycles are on average 30 days long?

[atomic sagebrush]

That's not compressed frequent release, that's "hurry up" release.

Yes, CD 14 may cover thru CD 17 but it's a longshot. I would have attempt anyway in case the temp rise is a faker.

Clomid is taken CD 3-7 50 mg . It will likely change your cycle so don't be surprised if you ovulate a different day than normal and your period may come a different day.

[Kazzz]

That's not compressed frequent release, that's "hurry up" release.

Yes, CD 14 may cover thru CD 17 but it's a longshot. I would have attempt anyway in case the temp rise is a faker.

Clomid is taken CD 3-7 50 mg . It will likely change your cycle so don't be surprised if you ovulate a different day than normal and your period may come a different day.




OK thanks I can't wait to try the clomid. I'll be dtd at first pos opk next cycle. Do you recommend any type of CFR or anything else nowadays? Or is it just first lot inside doesn't matter about days before? Also I'll be using the aci-jel since so many people think it's the best should I use it the days running up to pos opk 1 tube a day then day of pos opk skip the whole am tube? And go with a fingertip at cervix an hour before?

Sorry for all the additional questions I just want to have my plan set. This will be our last child. Thank you so so much for your help.

[atomic sagebrush]

None of the frequency patterns have worked. All they've seemed to do is cut odds of conception with the one attempt, leading people to get frustrated more quickly and either give up, or stay on diet so long they end up delaying ovulation. It's fine to try them to start with but they should quickly be dropped in favor of conception.

In our results Acijel has done nothing but cut odds of conception. We got the same number of girls with and without it.

I think a tube a day is overkill. I would use 1/4-1/2 tube no more than that, and then a tiny amount about an hour before TTC.

[Kazzz]

None of the frequency patterns have worked. All they've seemed to do is cut odds of conception with the one attempt, leading people to get frustrated more quickly and either give up, or stay on diet so long they end up delaying ovulation. It's fine to try them to start with but they should quickly be dropped in favor of conception.

In our results Acijel has done nothing but cut odds of conception. We got the same number of girls with and without it.

I think a tube a day is overkill. I would use 1/4-1/2 tube no more than that, and then a tiny amount about an hour before TTC.



Gosh it's changed its so good though so much more to the point and simple. So basically it's what you put in your body by mouth for 12+ weeks ie diet, coffee alcohol and one attempt at pos opk and exercise. Clomid if you can get it? No ph monitoring at all?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes. Diet, exercise, number of attempts, Clomid or Femara if you can get them. That's it. That's everything that worked for us. For hubby, jogging/biking and smoking has been shown in studies to help. OLE and soy milk may help, but aren't proven.

We've really ******lined it and are getting the best results of the site the past couple years.

[Kazzz]

Yes. Diet, exercise, number of attempts, Clomid or Femara if you can get them. That's it. That's everything that worked for us. For hubby, jogging/biking and smoking has been shown in studies to help. OLE and soy milk may help, but aren't proven.

We've really ******lined it and are getting the best results of the site the past couple years.


Thats so great years down the road and you've got it fine tuned and so much more simple an straight to the point. Good on you I'm so happy for all the swaying mommas who found you and got their boy or girl they desired.

And thank you so much for helping me I just want to clear one last thing up, so I shouldn't have my dh do the hurry up and release or anything else like that? Just first round inside? Also would I use the aci-jel half tube daily am? Then attempt night 1 small dot would you say on the cervix? And this being an hour before dtd? Thank you a whole bunch xx

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't believe it works. It's fine if you want to try it, but let me spell out the downside - people don't get pregnant (in some cases their husband couldn't even finish the second time, meaning they miss the month totally) and then they go on and on and on not getting pregnant.

- A huge number of people will do these extremely strict sways with no odds of conception, refusing to compromise on anything, and then panic after 6-9 months of BFN, decide they're infertile, and drop everything, even doing things that sway blue just to get pregnant. As I'm sure you can imagine this often ends up with opposites.

- An even huger number of people go on and on with strict sways, refusing to compromise on anything, and then after 6-9 months (or even less sometimes) their bodies are just like "ok that's enough of that" and start delaying or even stopping ovulation, and making the LP short to prevent conception. Our bodies do not want to take the chance of pregnancy when our access to food is not good enough, so when we diet too strictly for too long eventually it just won't play along any more. This means people have to relax massively on diet (after cutting back too far, usually) and this too can end with opposites since it's an improvement in condition - although nowhere near as many opposites as that first group.

So I think it's best for you guys to focus on doing what ACTUALLY works - diet, exercise, number of attempts, etc. and let go of the stuff that does nothing and only cuts odds of conception while not even helping a sway.

That is a LOT of Acijel to be honest. I don't usually recommend anything near that much but yes that's how some people use it. Some every day, and then a little about an hour before BD or as a lube. Most people use about a dime size dab, like a fingertip full 1 hour before BD. But since you'd been using it daily you may want to skip that to boost your chances of conception. It's really up to you as there's never been proven any ideal way to use it.

[Clara198237]

Hi ladies, I tried aci jel in my first month of ttc. I obviously didn’t get pregnant. I am now considering using replens or nothing at all. My ph is 4.5.


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[Kazzz]

I don't believe it works. It's fine if you want to try it, but let me spell out the downside - people don't get pregnant (in some cases their husband couldn't even finish the second time, meaning they miss the month totally) and then they go on and on and on not getting pregnant.

- A huge number of people will do these extremely strict sways with no odds of conception, refusing to compromise on anything, and then panic after 6-9 months of BFN, decide they're infertile, and drop everything, even doing things that sway blue just to get pregnant. As I'm sure you can imagine this often ends up with opposites.

- An even huger number of people go on and on with strict sways, refusing to compromise on anything, and then after 6-9 months (or even less sometimes) their bodies are just like "ok that's enough of that" and start delaying or even stopping ovulation, and making the LP short to prevent conception. Our bodies do not want to take the chance of pregnancy when our access to food is not good enough, so when we diet too strictly for too long eventually it just won't play along any more. This means people have to relax massively on diet (after cutting back too far, usually) and this too can end with opposites since it's an improvement in condition - although nowhere near as many opposites as that first group.

So I think it's best for you guys to focus on doing what ACTUALLY works - diet, exercise, number of attempts, etc. and let go of the stuff that does nothing and only cuts odds of conception while not even helping a sway.

That is a LOT of Acijel to be honest. I don't usually recommend anything near that much but yes that's how some people use it. Some every day, and then a little about an hour before BD or as a lube. Most people use about a dime size dab, like a fingertip full 1 hour before BD. But since you'd been using it daily you may want to skip that to boost your chances of conception. It's really up to you as there's never been proven any ideal way to use it.



OK thanks I'll listen and drop some things that don't sway. After all I just want to get pregnant don't want to sway for months.

I'll take the clomid aswel but I'm taking licorice root too are they safe together? I take LR myself because for 1 people believe it can lower a womans testosterone and sway pink but also it helps me with other health things like digestive issues that I've had most my life. Are they safe together since one lowers one hormone and the other raises another?

[atomic sagebrush]

NOOOOOOO Do not take licorice root. I know there are people online who tell you to take it. I have done research on it and it is NOT SAFE. It may cause developmental delays in babies and it affects your hormones so even if you quit taking it, it may contribute to miscarriage. It also may interfere with the Clomid. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE LICORICE ROOT.

The only people who should take it are men, and even they shouldn't take it because it got terrible results. If you guys take one piece of advice I ever give you, do not take licorice root.

I know LR may help with stomach issues but please don't take it when TTC or pregnant, and don't take it with Clomid.

[Clara198237]

Thank you. I’ve stopped my hubbys liquorice root after reading all this


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[Clara198237]

Ladies I’m unsure of this one. I am going to ttc this month. I used too much aci jel the first month so BFN, then second month I ovulated too early (I’ve never done this before) but I was taking aspirin. I stopped this as soon as I ovulated. I was rewllah upset that I peaked unexpectedly so I missed our chance to BD, and a wasted month of ttc. I was very down about this. This will be my third month swaying. I’m thinking of doing a 3 day cut off, I will use the clear blue smiley 4 day ovulation sticks this time though as I don’t won’t to miss my chance of BD. What cut off do you think I should follow? Also I’m thinking of using a summers eve douche prior to BD, taking 1 Sudafed 1 hour before. And using a pea sized amount before and after BD to regulate ph. Do you think this is ok? I have the 21 day diet plan part of the package so am following a low diet. Skipping breakfast. Do you think this is ok?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Has the plan answered your questions Clara??

[Clara198237]

Yes thanks Atomic. I’m going to use the replens 8-12 hours before my attempt. And not after as planned. I’m also considering dropping the douche as it looks like it will really reduce my chances of conceiveing


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[Clara198237]

I’m going to aim for a 2 day cut off this month


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[Thirdtimelucky01]

I’m going to aim for a 2 day cut off this month


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Hi Clara, how are you going to measure that it’s a 2 day cut off? Good luck with your sway!


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[Clara198237]

Well I have an app where i type in my cycle like my period start date, I have been using opk sticks and usually ovulate the same time each month. Last month I did peak 2 days early, so this month I shall be using clear blue ovulation sticks with a 4 day fertile window. I have never used these though before so was hoping atomic may guide me on how to use these, or when to have an attempt based on the results on the clear blue test. With the opk sticks the readings become darker when you reach an hormone surge and hence close to ovulation, I’m not an expert but have been tracking using opks for around 7 months


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[atomic sagebrush]

Ok I already answered some of this in another thread but just to keep this thread going for anyone interested:

The apps are NOT reliable (like, at all LOL - there's a bit of a scandal how many accidental pregnancies they're causing and I am finding they cause many other people TTC to not get pregnant) They only work if your cycle stays regular for the most part (especially if you are not entering in temps and only entering dates). Use them with great caution or not at all.

To use the Clearblues with the 4 day window for a 3 day cutoff you'd try the FIRST flashy (this is extremely low chance of conception - often more like 4 days before O - and I do not recommend it.) For a 2 day cutoff you'd try the SECOND flashy day (this can often end up being more like 3 days and is also not stellar odds of conception) My preference is you guys try the day of first SOLID smiley (this is 1-1 1/2 day cutoff or so, give or take) but it's fine if you prefer not to do that.

If you guys try the flashy smiley strategy, do be aware it's possible to have many days of flashy before going to peak (meaning an attempt at second smiley would still be quite far from O) OR to go straight to peak without any flashies at all!! So have a back up plan in mind so you're not in a panic at that point if one of those things happens.

[Kazzz]

NOOOOOOO Do not take licorice root. I know there are people online who tell you to take it. I have done research on it and it is NOT SAFE. It may cause developmental delays in babies and it affects your hormones so even if you quit taking it, it may contribute to miscarriage. It also may interfere with the Clomid. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE LICORICE ROOT.

The only people who should take it are men, and even they shouldn't take it because it got terrible results. If you guys take one piece of advice I ever give you, do not take licorice root.

I know LR may help with stomach issues but please don't take it when TTC or pregnant, and don't take it with Clomid.



Hey I'm trying to figure out what clomid does and do both clomid and LR do the same thing? I know you don't recommend LR but what effect does LR and clomid have on the body? Are they the same in some ways?

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey I'm trying to figure out what clomid does and do both clomid and LR do the same thing? I know you don't recommend LR but what effect does LR and clomid have on the body? Are they the same in some ways?

No they are totally different things. They are in no way the same, do not work in any way the same, and the Licorice root is almost certainly harmful while the Clomid has been in widespread use since the 1960's and millions of healthy babies have been conceived on it.

Stay away from licorice.

I am happy to explain how these things affect the body, but if this is some sort of attempt to justify using licorice instead of Clomid I would rather not waste my time doing that - can you clarify why you want me to do this?

[Kazzz]

No they are totally different things. They are in no way the same, do not work in any way the same, and the Licorice root is almost certainly harmful while the Clomid has been in widespread use since the 1960's and millions of healthy babies have been conceived on it.

Stay away from licorice.

I am happy to explain how these things affect the body, but if this is some sort of attempt to justify using licorice instead of Clomid I would rather not waste my time doing that - can you clarify why you want me to do this?




No that's ok just knowing they are different is enough. I'm very interested in all things swaying. I have some clomid being sent to me from a friend so I'll add it to my sway when it gets here. I'm a believer in hormones and being on tough times for a girl. I think I got my two boys because first I've always eaten like one and secondly I'm extremely anxious and overbearing in most areas of my life but could it be that someone who is on the look out all the time higher in testosterone can hold their own more likely to eat then in turn more food so also more foods that raise testosterone overall, like a crazy cycle. Have you asked all boy mums what their anxiety or personality is like? A domineering personality has got to be more likely to eat and a better option for the weaker boys. Also boys would have a better chance of getting their testosterone where it should if raised by a mum who literally is testosterone herself lol

I wish they would heavily study this stuff then their would be more swaying and less orphanages.

[atomic sagebrush]

If it's just from curiosity that's a different matter! Sometimes people ask me questions that are really meant to be justifications of things they want to do and in the case of licorice root, it's something I just hate to see people use.

Clomid blocks estrogen for five days, and then your body makes a lot of estrogen all of a sudden to compensate and this rush of estrogen forces your eggs to mature and be released, and it also helps make progesterone (because your body is stimulated to make a lot of sex hormones Licorice root, on the other hand, is believed to interfere with your body's ability to make sex hormones all together, in part by taking the place of estrogen. So your body makes less estrogen, and the licorice has bonded with the estrogen receptors making it less likely for the natural estrogens to even work. They're pretty much polar opposites of each other.

So Clomid ends up with lots of natural estrogen at ovulation, and licorice would be less natural estrogen at ovulation. We know for a fact that Clomid sways pink and it's also not dangerous so use. Stick with Clomid and keep licorice very far away when pregnant and TTC.

Testosterone is something that sway gurus talk about a lot but the catch is - it's never been proven to work! People act like it's this proven thing, but there's never been a study where blood tests were taken before TTC to see what someone's gender conceived was. All we have are personality tests, but women's personality has been proven not to be affected by testosterone, so I don't see how personality can tell us anything about what testosterone levels even ARE. We DO know female personality can be affected by estrogen and progesterone fluctuations though.

Now, that having been said I do see personality differences between boy moms and girl moms, but it's just not proven testosterone has anything to do with that. Clomid RAISES testosterone and sways pink! I think it has more to to do with anxiety/control freakishness and not hormone levels in and of themselves. So I hate to see you guys get hung up on "lowering testosterone" when we really don't even know that testosterone has anything to do with it.

If you want to read a ridiculously long thread where I talk about personality and swaying it's here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/33517-maternal-dominance-hypothesis-priviledged-daughter-hypothesis.html

[Kazzz]

If it's just from curiosity that's a different matter! Sometimes people ask me questions that are really meant to be justifications of things they want to do and in the case of licorice root, it's something I just hate to see people use.

Clomid blocks estrogen for five days, and then your body makes a lot of estrogen all of a sudden to compensate and this rush of estrogen forces your eggs to mature and be released, and it also helps make progesterone (because your body is stimulated to make a lot of sex hormones Licorice root, on the other hand, is believed to interfere with your body's ability to make sex hormones all together, in part by taking the place of estrogen. So your body makes less estrogen, and the licorice has bonded with the estrogen receptors making it less likely for the natural estrogens to even work. They're pretty much polar opposites of each other.

So Clomid ends up with lots of natural estrogen at ovulation, and licorice would be less natural estrogen at ovulation. We know for a fact that Clomid sways pink and it's also not dangerous so use. Stick with Clomid and keep licorice very far away when pregnant and TTC.

Testosterone is something that sway gurus talk about a lot but the catch is - it's never been proven to work! People act like it's this proven thing, but there's never been a study where blood tests were taken before TTC to see what someone's gender conceived was. All we have are personality tests, but women's personality has been proven not to be affected by testosterone, so I don't see how personality can tell us anything about what testosterone levels even ARE. We DO know female personality can be affected by estrogen and progesterone fluctuations though.

Now, that having been said I do see personality differences between boy moms and girl moms, but it's just not proven testosterone has anything to do with that. Clomid RAISES testosterone and sways pink! I think it has more to to do with anxiety/control freakishness and not hormone levels in and of themselves. So I hate to see you guys get hung up on "lowering testosterone" when we really don't even know that testosterone has anything to do with it.

If you want to read a ridiculously long thread where I talk about personality and swaying it's here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/33517-maternal-dominance-hypothesis-priviledged-daughter-hypothesis.html



Thanks for that.
So with me having anxiety most my life and a control freak attitude how do I fix this? It gets so much worse when taking hpt and then again when taking opks leading up to ovulation.

Also do you think it would hurt if we did our attempt at first pos opk but get dh to release an hour beforehand just to lower the numbers a bit? We got both our boys at ovulation with my first we did 2 attempts in fertile window an with 2nd one attempt in fertile window right near ovulation day day of or day before. Just thinking dh mite have high numbers because of this but then again I don't think he's high testosterone so mite not have heaps of swimmers because he can happily go 2 wks without sex he doesn't care about it like other guys do. So would that low sex drive me low testosterone or high oestrogen low =low sperm numbers?