Hello! Newbie with PCOS & swaying pink

[Kiwimaz]

Hi ladies,

I've been lurking for a little while trying to get my head around this swaying. I have 2 sons, one was conceived right on O, the other 0-6. Both were on full moons (is this still a theory?!).

I'm still bfing DS2 but we plan to start ttc a DD next March/April. I'd like less than 2yrs between these bubbas.

I have slim PCOS, my cycles were usually ovulatory but long, 5-7wks. I've just started metformin again currently only on 500mg/day. DS2 was conceived 1st cycle of Met. We'd planned to sway after a couple of cycles but it shifted my O up a week earlier immediately then DH's swimmers waited nearly a whole week for the egg so we got preg right away.

What's the priority for me for a pink sway? I don't quite know how I should do the diet with PCOS, bfing & adjusting to Met again.
We have Sylk and Aci-jel.

My diet had historically bn very healthy and I avoid chemicals, exercise moderately and take quite a lot of supplements. I'm realising my lifestyle is very boy friendly. I'm one of 3 girls (2 adopted brothers) and my mum is one of 3 girls. But of the 13 grandchildren in my family, 11 are boys! Any advice appreciated, would dearly like a daughter some day.

[ksmom]

Hi and welcome!

Timing has been debunked and the whole moon phase gender theory just doesn't hold water. Since you have PCOS, definitely do the PCOS version of LE but since you're breastfeeding, eat the upper limits for calories, fat and protein. 1800-2000 calories, 50-60g protein, 50-60g fat. ALL foods are allowed. No snacking and while most pink swayers do 2-3 meals a day, you'll likely need to do 3-4 with breastfeeding.
PCOS diet info here (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html)
Metformin is great for a pink sway! In addition to the 12+ weeks on diet, cardio, fiber (not recommended for breastfeeding moms though), coffee, alcohol, one attempt at positive OPK, and clomid/femara are all great for swaying pink. Other things you may want to add to your sway are also going to depend on the age of your baby.

[atomic sagebrush]

HI and welcome Kiwi!

The odds of conceiving with BD of O-6 is something like 100,000 to one so either you Oed sooner than you think or else you are a very lucky mama! :)

Timing honestly doesn't work, most of us on here have 2-3-4 or more timing opposites but it's fine to use it to start with if you want. The most important thing to remember is the one attempt - even though you got boys with this in the past we have best results with one attempt.

I have a thread on changing your diet with PCOS here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/1865-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-1-blood-sugar-issues.html?1865-Swaying-under-special-circumstances-Part-1-Blood-sugar-issues= and also here (this one is much more long and involved!) http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

Can you go over your supps and I'll tell you which ones are ok. Metformin is great for pink and sways much harder than all the supps do (and I suspect some of the things you're on will sway blue anyway so we need to get a handle on those)

I have a really in depth essay on number of attempts here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9736-how-many-attempts-should-i-do-when-pink-blue.html

[Kiwimaz]

Thanks so much!

Yes my sister is a shettles believer she has 3 DS and 2 DD but her DDs were 1st & last, could've bn a multitude of factors.

My DS1 was 1 attempt but DS2 was after daily BD for a week. The last BD was 0-5 by my FF chart and 0-6 by the dating scan. I know this is accurate also cz DH flew out of town after the last BD. We were TTA using FAM while the Met shortened my cycles. Can't believe the stats on this! I have a close friend with a DS3 conceived the same way. We both experienced GD due to the shettles theory. I totally don't believe in it now. My Mum got me by insemination right on O.

However, this whole experience has me paranoid we are too fertile to produce a DD!

My cycle is trying to return but hasn't yet. I was going to give up night nursing for a bottle of ebm or formula. Is vitex still recommended?

[Kiwimaz]

The supps I'm on (some nearly finished & due to preg & bfing):

Tresos prenatal (methylated) half a caplet
DHA
Calcium 400mg
Magnesium 200mg
Iodine
Chromium 200mcg in AM (met in PM)
Zinc 15mg (was low before DS2)
Prescription iron (nearly finished)
Vit C 1300mg 2x day
P5P (b6) pinch every other day
Methylb12 250mcg sublingual approx 2x week
Spirulina powder 1tsp day (great for milk supply)
Fennel tea

DH has been taking
B complex
Herbal adaptogen formula (I think he should drop this as my gut says will sway blue).

DS1 was IUGR so they had me on high dose of calcium plus baby aspirin during the preg. I feel that I should drop both cal and mag for girl sway.

[atomic sagebrush]

ok please bump this for me, it's longer than I thought it was going to be and want to give it my best effort!

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you atomic sagebrush.

Along with vitex for me, would you suggest licorice for DH? He certainly has a high drive normally.

Diet is a tricky one for me as I have a lot of digestive issues and prone to stress over perfection as well, so I'm hoping to cover the other bases as well as I can and not fixate too much on LE if that makes sense?

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks so much!

Yes my sister is a shettles believer she has 3 DS and 2 DD but her DDs were 1st & last, could've bn a multitude of factors.

My DS1 was 1 attempt but DS2 was after daily BD for a week. The last BD was 0-5 by my FF chart and 0-6 by the dating scan. I know this is accurate also cz DH flew out of town after the last BD. We were TTA using FAM while the Met shortened my cycles. Can't believe the stats on this! I have a close friend with a DS3 conceived the same way. We both experienced GD due to the shettles theory. I totally don't believe in it now. My Mum got me by insemination right on O.

However, this whole experience has me paranoid we are too fertile to produce a DD!

My cycle is trying to return but hasn't yet. I was going to give up night nursing for a bottle of ebm or formula. Is vitex still recommended?

If you're interested I do have the full case against timing here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html It is totally fine if you want to use it, I just really want you to do one attempt with it and only a 2-3 day cutoff because even though you got lucky before I don't want to count on that working a second time. For reasons we don't understand that one attempt has really worked.

Don't worry about being too fertile, many of us have gotten boys very very easily (myself included) and then got a girl anyway. I have 4 boys all conceived first month or two and then got a girl!

Re vitex - I'd try giving up the night feed first before the vitex. While I do think it can work for people (and did seem to work for me one time to restore ovulation) it seemed to cause more trouble than it was worth and hasn't reliably swayed pink anyway. But if you want to use it there's more in these two threads http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-help-and-infertility-support/2194-getting-pregnant-while-breastfeeding.html?2194-getting-pregnant-while-breastfeeding= http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/2200-swaying-while-breastfeeding.html?2200-swaying-while-breastfeeding=

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you atomic sagebrush.

Along with vitex for me, would you suggest licorice for DH? He certainly has a high drive normally.

Diet is a tricky one for me as I have a lot of digestive issues and prone to stress over perfection as well, so I'm hoping to cover the other bases as well as I can and not fixate too much on LE if that makes sense?

Licorice has gotten weirdly low results of late. I'm really not sure why, on paper it should sway pink and we did get good results from it in the earlier days of the site but it's just fallen off the last few years. I don't think it is swaying blue, I think it's because only the very most fertile couples are using it and they may be more set for blue anyway. So I leave that one up to you - if you think he can benefit from it that's fine. directions here http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/7108-saw-palmetto-peppermint-tea-licorice-root-depth-how.html

Diet has gotten great results - both for PCOS and for swaying. I always recommend diet even if you can't do it to the furthest extent, at least make a few changes. If you're doing Metformin again that may really help!

[atomic sagebrush]

The supps I'm on (some nearly finished & due to preg & bfing):

Tresos prenatal (methylated) half a caplet
DHA
Calcium 400mg
Magnesium 200mg
Iodine
Chromium 200mcg in AM (met in PM)
Zinc 15mg (was low before DS2)
Prescription iron (nearly finished)
Vit C 1300mg 2x day
P5P (b6) pinch every other day
Methylb12 250mcg sublingual approx 2x week
Spirulina powder 1tsp day (great for milk supply)
Fennel tea

DH has been taking
B complex
Herbal adaptogen formula (I think he should drop this as my gut says will sway blue).

DS1 was IUGR so they had me on high dose of calcium plus baby aspirin during the preg. I feel that I should drop both cal and mag for girl sway.

For sway I'd drop DHA and prenatal (or reduce to 2 -3x a week if you prefer) I'd drop B6 and B12 as well - don't DROP them, just wean off.

I'd have you continue iodine. I often use that for swayers both pink and blue. Take folate 1200-1600 per day.

Continue iron, zinc 3x a week to be sure you don't get any deficiency

Chromium, calcium, magnesium at your discretion. I got boys with cal-mag so it was very easy to give them up and I got a girl once I did. But totally up to you.

For the sake of safety - I want you off the Vit. C and spirulina. Wean off the Vit. C but the spirulina needs to go immediately. While I know some swear by it, some pretty convincing evidence has linked algae to motor neuron diseases like ALS and I cannot recommend anyone use it in anything more than occasional dietary amounts (like in green juice now and then, but not daily as a supplement). And this is not contamination in the algae, it's naturally occurring toxins the algaes make themselves to deter predators. I am concerned this could harm you in the long term or could even come out in your milk since no one has studied that so my suggestion is to stop taking that. As for the Vit. C - 1000 mg has been used to induce miscarriage (abortion) and so I cannot recommend anyone taking more than 500 mg. Not safe at that intake when trying to conceive.

Fennel tea - we don't know how it sways but I have seen at least a couple people get girls while drinking it for their milk so I'm ok with you continuing that in dietary amounts 2-3 times a week.

Whenever possible I do like hubbies to give up their supplements (wean off). If he's willing to take fiber and/or drink soy milk and soy foods 12-48 oz a day it may help but it's probably not worth fighting over.

I would consider giving him olive leaf extract 500-1000 mg a day (we have had some trouble finding lower doses of OLE in some countries but if you can find that amount, give him that. if you find a liquid OLE instead give him the dose on the bottle) Start this right away and continue till BFP and then gradually wean off by spacing doses further and further out.

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you so much for your advice.

I will for sure do what you say and try 1 attempt (i assumed this includes a period of abstinance first) and forget about a cutoff. I've not used OPKs before as I went by ewcm but also heard PCOS can cause consistent & false positives so that could make a 1 attempt tricky.

Thank you for reminding me about the Vit C. I have bn run down and with an infection hence the higher dose but I did limit it to 500mg a day when preg. I have not heard that about spirulina I'm quite shocked, it's a very popular supplement here. I will read up more about that but it does make sense.

We have olive leaf liquid in the cupboard for colds and flu. Do you have any links what it does for DH or can you explain?

Thank you I so.appreciate your time!

[atomic sagebrush]

I know the spirulina is super popular but my father in law had ALS and so I did lots of research and it's a pretty prominent theory. If you google algae als you'll get tons of hits. He was hugely into taking supplements and I know he took it and blue green algae as well. I just think it's not worth the risk.

We don't know what it does for hubby, we had a researcher show up here a while back claiming it helped alter the gender ratio and it has seemed to possibly help a bit.

Re the one attempt, you can do with a cutoff of 2-3 days if you prefer that's totally fine. Just have only the one attempt in the fertile window. You can do it with abstain, or daily release, or even regular release every 2-4 days if you'd like.

If you're worried about the PCO/OPK issue then you can also just do every 4 day method instead - unprotected sex every 4 days (you can count this as Mon/Thurs or Mon/Fri, whichever you prefer, the closer spacing may be better for conception but lower odds of pink, further is better odds of pink, but lower odds conception). This has also gotten good results for us.

[Kiwimaz]

With BD every 4 days for pink, should we avoid BD if there's ewcm? Won't that sway blue?

[atomic sagebrush]

No. Sperm, both X and Y sperm, need EWCM in order to make it to the egg. We saw so many EWCM opposites that it has become impossible for me to believe EWCM is telling us much for swaying anyway. I got my 4th boy with no visible CM at all, my pH didn't even go up, and I didn't even know I'd ovulated. Then with my daughter I had EWCM but tried anyway since it was literally the last month I was going to try! STill got a girl!!

The advantage of the e4d for swaying pink is that you put it out of your mind and just roll with it. Paying attention to details such as checking EWCM and worrying about if you have "too much" or whatever is exactly the type of "control freak" detail that may sway blue and undermine an otherwise successful sway. So I don't want you guys worrying about anything like that with the e4d, just start after AF ends and roll with it till you're sure you've ovulated even if that means going all the way through till your next AF starts!

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you!

Yes I don't want to be checking & monitoring alot of things as I am a bit type A and I really want this conception to have a laid back approach.

My Dr agreed to increasing my Met dose to 1000mg/day which I did the weekend before Christmas and FF has given me crosshairs on Christmas day which will be my first post partum cycle. Temps areba bit wonky due to getting up to DS2 so not 100% its right. We did bd in the window but will see. DH rather not have a Christmas baby so wanting to not avoid from now.

My diet has changed alot since having a 2nd child due to eating on the run (less salads, less bowls fruit n yoghurt, more toast & crackers) it seems more girl friendly hopefully that in itself has made a good foundation for diet and also I'm not exercising at all atm whereas with both my boys I did moderate cardio and weights.

[atomic sagebrush]

Salads and fruit are fine for girls though. you don't need to avoid those things moving forward.

I generally recommend exercise (no weight tho) but I understand with 2 little ones it's hard to fit in.

The metformin makes up for a lot with diet and exercise.

[Kiwimaz]

I'm trying to incorporate some long walks each week. I am having trouble understanding LE for PCOS though despite reading all the links!

I'd usually have fresh fruit and yoghurt with activated nuts and deeds on top for breaky after early gf toast with my morning coffee. And when I'd have salad it'd be with tuna or chicken and Cheese, mayo etc. My diet was perhaps on the lower side for carbs and higher side in fat and protein. So for pink do I need to reverse that but keep carbs wholegrain for PCOS?

I am reluctant to count calories and protein, fat grams etc due to history of eating disorder i don't want to trigger plus I think it'll make me too tense and undermine my sway.

FF removed my crosshairs I'm still waiting for pp af. My son has dropped his night feeds for the most part. I'm wondering if I should drop my after dinner pumping session as well or just keep with the vitex?
Vitex worked for me several years ago to bring on AF after my low weight issues sent it MIA for a long time.

[atomic sagebrush]

Can you elaborate on what you're having trouble with?

Yes that is very much the idea - lower carbs but still more carbs than protein and fat, and the carbs should be healthy carbs like whole grains, fruit, and veg.

:agree: with not counting grams in that case. No worries.

Vitex has been really bad for most people who are having their O delayed due to weight loss. I suspect it worked for you in the past because of the PCOS. I just see sooo much trouble caused by vitex I hesitate to suggest it to anyone who isn't ovulating regularly anyway.

Stopping the pumping may help your cycle to come back. I'd only do it if you really want to, though.

[Kiwimaz]

I got got confused because I interpreted LE to mean low micronutrient primarily but I guess it's more low macronutrient as low protein, low fat and low calories overall.

I found your thread the Skinny on Fat interesting and helpful I wonder that this is one the the areas I can change the most while bfing and supporting the return of fertility by not going too low. My diet had lots of fertility supporting fat I think- grassfed butter, coconut oil, dripping, olive oil, fish oil.

I used to take EPO as it was very helpful for skin and mood, I stopped during pregnancy. Would you say it sways either way?

Obviously I got boys with it before but I also took royal jelly and I feel this sways blue so will stay away this time.

[Kiwimaz]

Also, I double checked my last preg chart and we BD'd last on a Monday after several days in a row, then I charted O on the Fri and dating scan put it on the Saturday. So does that equal O-4 or O-5 depending which O date I go with?

[atomic sagebrush]

I got got confused because I interpreted LE to mean low micronutrient primarily but I guess it's more low macronutrient as low protein, low fat and low calories overall.

I found your thread the Skinny on Fat interesting and helpful I wonder that this is one the the areas I can change the most while bfing and supporting the return of fertility by not going too low. My diet had lots of fertility supporting fat I think- grassfed butter, coconut oil, dripping, olive oil, fish oil.

I used to take EPO as it was very helpful for skin and mood, I stopped during pregnancy. Would you say it sways either way?

Obviously I got boys with it before but I also took royal jelly and I feel this sways blue so will stay away this time.

If I had a time machine I would go back in time and call the diets something other than Low and High Everything because it really does contribute to more confusion than I'd like. But, it's done now and yes you're right, what has proved to matter is the macronutrients and the fortified foods and not the other stuff.

I am inclined to believe EPO sways pink and I"ve dropped it from blue sways HOWEVER it is a long time blue sway supp. I'm on the fence about using it for pink. I feel like we are getting good results without it, and I hesitate to start playing around with anything that has been said to sway blue at this point.

[atomic sagebrush]

Also, I double checked my last preg chart and we BD'd last on a Monday after several days in a row, then I charted O on the Fri and dating scan put it on the Saturday. So does that equal O-4 or O-5 depending which O date I go with?

O-5 is a very, very long shot, O-4 is slim too but more likely than O-5. Your guess is as good as mine on that!

[Kiwimaz]

Got my 1st post partum af yay. By my chart it looks like I ovulated and we had an attempt in the window 0-1 and 0-5 (E4D) with a 13 day LP (my normal was 14-15), so I'm tempted to count this month as an attempt. I reintroduced butter and dairy as the signs of fertility I had since Christmas seemed to diminish after I tweaked my diet. Now I've had a cycle could I go more LE or might it space my cycles far apart?

I've been drinking shatavari tea 1c a day, any thoughts on how this might sway?

Really excited to be fertile again ��

[atomic sagebrush]

I'd count it as an attempt, yes!

:agree: full fat dairy is great for keeping you ovulating.

I can't sign off on any herbs for swaying unless I've seen quite a few people use them and get their desired gender. The reason is that I can look up the herbs and see how they fit into "theories" but the thing is, none of the theories have even panned out so I'm super reluctant to have you guys take anything any more because there could always be ways an herb could sway, even though we don't know about them yet. So I would limit it to 2-3 days per week max.

[Kiwimaz]

3952639527

Hi Atomic, the AF I thought I'd got never went beyond spotting I didn't ovulate then either. I ended up seeing my GP about Clomid and he increased my Met from 2x to 3x day (I was limited due to ebf before) and told me to stop bfing. I dropped from 3 pump sessions a day to 1 and ovulated 2wks later. We had an attempt O-1. I'm confused about what to class as my fertile window for the purposes of restricting to 1 attempt.

I've attached my current chart (there was no period I just entered it as the day i dropped feeds & upped Met to shorten my very long post partum chart. I often have a little ewcm a few days after O & if I enter this it shifts my O day to CD15.

The other chart is my chart from DS2. My dating scan pushed my O day out another day (making it later). So we BD a lot that cycle but he was a long way out from O. When would my window have started? We've been doing E4D but I'm paranoid it's not long enough. Should I try once in 7 days now I know better when I will O?

Of course we could've caught the first egg but DH is adamant we haven't :think:

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm sorry, I feel like a complete idiot but I am not totally following your questions here.

Can you please clarify why if you're doing e4d you are worried about one attempt, and what you mean when you say you're worried e4d is not "long enough"?

[Kiwimaz]

Sorry! We were waiting for my post partum fertility and to sway pink with one attempt by doing e4d (or less). I'm a bit paranoid that e4d might still give me 2 attempts in my fertile window since with DS2 I got preg a long way out from O (ie long fertile window). Does that make sense?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes but the way it works is this - even in "worst" case scenario of O-3 and O Day, if there is anything left from the first BD, it will go on to fertilize the egg before the O Day shot could even capacitate, and then if there isn't, the O Day shot will have a chance to get to the egg. It is still functionally one attempt! (O-4 or longer out is going to be a VERY slim chance of pregnancy. O-5/6 are like being struck by lightning. So O-4/O-1, O-5/O-2 chances are for sure only going to be one attempt.)

You can't tell anything based on how you got pregnant in the past. Even if you did happen to get pregnant with a long cutoff in the past, that was simply sheer luck and being young and super human, LOL. It doesn't mean you will ever be able to get pregnant with that cutoff again, and it certainly doesn't mean you are a person who has a "long fertile phase" because that really isn't a thing and it is normal for everyone's fertile period to vary by month.

All that having been said it's totally cool to stretch the e4d a day and do it in the Monday/Friday pattern if you prefer or even further and have sex once every 6-7 days but you don't have to!

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you so much, that helps!

Do you think the frenquecy of DTD is relevant in that period of time between end of AF and fertile window? Should it be e4d the whole follicular phase? Sorry if this has been asked before.

[atomic sagebrush]

I prefer you guys are on e4d the whole time (not only in fertile window) because firstly it will guard against early or late ovulation and secondly, I want you on autopilot and not thinking about your BD pattern as long before the egg shows up as is possible. This takes away the stress/controlfreakishness of it all.

[Kiwimaz]

Hehe yes I understand. Hopefully don't have to keep counting...

Faint BFP this morning I think I'm 12 or 13dpo. Can't believe it 1st time again. I'm 34 and DH is 32. Will update with gender when we know. Praying for a sticky bean.

Do you have any links to the NIPT tests? (Is that what they're called?)

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm not sure what you mean by links?? Do you mean essays about them?

[atomic sagebrush]

And huge congrats!!

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you yes I meant essays on tests.

I priced a NIPT it's like $350 plus an OB appointment.
With DS2 I did one of those urine tests and it said girl, it was not a great experience!

[atomic sagebrush]

Ugh yes I bet! I despise the urine tests! I have a little bit about them in this essay http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/52342-faq-about-getting-staying-pregnant-early-pregnancy.html They are expensive, for sure.

[Kiwimaz]

BFP wasn't a sticky we lost it at 5wks. My first experience of that, really hope that doesn't happen again. Waiting to O again. Starting back at gym next week will go cardio heavy to help my sway although probably too late for this cycle if I O on time.
Thank you for the essay link!

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[atomic sagebrush]

OH no I'm so sorry to hear that.

We originally thought starting exercise at the last minute didn't help but our exercise results ahve been SO awesome I do recommend you guys exercise even if you have to start it kind of at the last minute. Good luck!

[Kiwimaz]

Update...bfp today 8dpo. Ov'd cd15 after a short anov cycle. We bd cd13 and cd9. We were reallllly sick with a tummy bug it was a wonder we managed at all, but hoping it swayed us pink!

Will do a sway form once its confirmed.

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[Kiwimaz]

My first beta (11dpo) was 160 so I'm feeling pretty positive so far. Can't wait to update with gender!

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[atomic sagebrush]

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: good luck and pink dust!

[Kiwimaz]

19wk scan today they think its a boy but not with strong certainty. I will be getting a 32wk scan. Boy #3 for me.

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[atomic sagebrush]

OH, gosh Kiwi I'm so sorry it didn't go how we were hoping. How unsure were they??

[Kiwimaz]

We went for an elective one today as I couldnt deal with the uncertainty and needed to see with my own eyes and he's all boy!
Will be honest, have shed a lot of tears but will be able to move forward and love him now. Unsure whether we will go for #4 later or 3 will be enough for me.

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[atomic sagebrush]

:hugs: :heart: :hugs: There is something very very special about our opposites. I know it's so hard though - especially at first.

[Kiwimaz]

Thanks Atomic. I had really hoped DS2 was a girl and he is so devine and brings so much joy. This next one will be 18mths younger so hopefully they will be great buds.

Its hard not to analyze what didn't work but I did struggle with the diet as I eat quite alot (normal weight PCOS) and to reduce the fat & protein in my diet as my blood sugar can be so unstable and I find my mood plummets with not much protein.

I didn't take a prenatal but I was still on low doses of zinc and cal/mag for my mental health through a practitioner. I had demonstrated zinc deficiency. I had been off omega 3 for 6mths when we conceived though.

Re our timing, we were doing E4D as with my mc cycle I never got a + OPK. My darkest OPK with this cycle was CD13. We BD days 6, 9 and 13. When they dated me at 13wks it put ovulation at CD12. It is haunting me a bit we ended up with 2 attempts in the window as DS2 was concieved a long way from ovulation. I think next time I would be more patient and use a barrier method until + OPK once i got better at using them.

Hubby wants a 4th regardless, I think I will let him have his way. If we sway again I will pay for a personalised plan but how is the pill rating in your stats? If I went on that for few months after breastfeeding, the one for PCOS reduces androgens as well, would that help sway?

We live in New Zealand so high tech is a pretty remote option for us.

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[atomic sagebrush]

I wouldn't go too nuts analyzing what went wrong...I understand the tendency but for all we know you had an ideal sway and just fell into the group of opposites that seems to exist no matter how much we try to break through that upper ceiling.

The pill does seem to help and it's certainly worth a go - I don't feel we have a good body of data to prove this, but biologically the pill should sway pink.

How much protein and fat were you eating?

[Kiwimaz]

I wasn't counting grams, I was worried I would get too obsessive & anxious about my intake. I made changes to my diet which is usually high fat high protein due to blood sugar lows and also needing to be gluten free.
I changed things like instead of a paleo nut and seed muesli on my fruit & yogurt breakfast, had a gluten free grain based muesli.
Went for honey or jam instead of peanut butter etc.
We usually eat meat daily (seems common in NZ), sometimes leftovers or tuna for lunch as well so I tried to keep lunch vegetarian, reduce meat serving size at dinner and have vegetarian dinners twice a week, no bacon.
I cut way back on butter and dairy (which I love).
I wasn't underweight but I do seem to have a fast metabolism if I compare what I eat with my friends.

I think if I had a meal plan to follow that would be easier on my mind than counting grams.

I was on metformin 500mg 3x a day with this baby and my 2nd. It had no effect on my weight but certainly shortened my cycles to within the realm of normal. My first was conceived cycle day 42, my second day 19 and this one 13 or 14 but yes all boys!
Also quite a coffee drinker and plenty of alcohol with DS1 & DS2 [emoji6]

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[atomic sagebrush]

I know it's annoying but it's particularly important with PCOS to count the grams of fat and protein. Because by getting a certain amount of fat and protein, and then a specific amount of calories, we ensure you don't go overboard eating carbs. An excess of carbs for PCOSers can possibly sway blue so that is one thing we may want to focus on. Anyone with PCOS will be best off skipping things that have sugars in them like honey and jam. But the metformin does help a lot with that and if any way to use the Met in the future I'd definitely do that

[Kiwimaz]

I should be allowed met again due to my age and time to conception.

Toast was a hard one as my gf bread is the highest fibre grain food I have but anything I put on it was hfhp or high sugar.

I had an eating disorder when I was young into my 20s so counting grams just feels like a total no-no for me and I had thought the obsess factor of it would sway blue for me and hopefully the met would outweigh the diet issue.

If I sway again, perhaps I will just be too busy chasing 3 boys to get obsessive about my diet and just count sensibly.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that definitely adds a wrinkle - we would likely just have you do the PCOS diet I made that requires no counting of the grams if you decide to sway again.

[Kiwimaz]

Hi Atomic,
I'm back again... my baby boy is 4.5mths old and soooo yummy., I'm so in love with him. You are right about them being special thats for sure.
The topic of number four is often in conversation (mostly when).
Due to the GD I had after the last gender scan and my hubby's negative experience with licorice (sooo moody) he is not keen on swaying hard this time.
I want to check, how long before trying should I wean off supps?
Is Diane 35/Estelle 35/Ginet a pill worth trying to delay pregnancy and sway pink? I'm a bit bothered by the PCOS sxs these days. I don't know if its age or my diet and lack of exercise breastfeeding and having three children.
I will try for met again, I'm 35 now, and use the OPKs... I have like 40 leftover from the last baby.
Is the PCOS eating plan part of your personalised plan?

[atomic sagebrush]

We have totally dropped the licorice root - it hasn't worked and caused too many side effects.

12 weeks beforehand I would be off prenatals and stuff.

If you will be on the BCP longer than a month or two then yes go for it. When people are only on it for 1-2 months I think it creates more trouble than it's worth but otherwise if you'll be on it a while then it may help sway pink.

The PCOS Diet is part of the plan for anyone who needs to be on it. I would def. recommend it for you. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you. Hubby is on board with swaying again. We are thinking to plan for a 20mth ish gap so would need to start diet in near future.
Would probiotics be included in the 3mths beforehand things to stop or just the cycle before? I'm very prone to thrush and find they help.
Are the jellies still scratched for swaying?
I have fallen pregnant first time each time we've tried so I'm ok with cutting the odds of conception alot to sway.

Lastly, if I purchase a plan is your diet compatible with people living overseas (do you specify brands for example)?

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[atomic sagebrush]

The only problem with starting diet too soon postpartum is that it may make your cycle take longer to come back. ARe you nursing?

If you need the probiotics you need them. Things that are for your health need to take precedence over swaying. If you come off them I'd do it 12 weeks before you plan to try, though.

The jellies are up to you - they have not helped at all and have really cut odds of conception hugely, but some people do want to start off using them. Totally your choice

With the personalized plans I work with you in the coaching forum to tweak your diet (using foods you already like and are accustomed with). I do not make a custom diet. We work together to make your diet via the coaching. The custom plan is everything BUT diet and it comes with the coaching service. :)

[Kiwimaz]

Ok so the personalised plan is the 6mth one and the coaching plan is the bundle that lasts 12mths?

Probably mummy brain but I'm having trouble choosing. Due to the exchange rate I think the bundle is out of reach for me. I think for the gap we want we need to attempt in Feb and March for a Nov/Dec baby but maybe attempt in Jan too.

Yes I'm still nursing but not full time as I don't have a full supply but I am double pumping a bit but ready to give it up soon due to other children to care for too. He is on formula during the night usually though.

[atomic sagebrush]

Every plan that says "personalized" in it is personalized. There is an option for 6 month coaching along with a personalized plan, and 12 months. the only one you don't want to buy is the "Immediate Download" as that is NOT personalized (although you could have it right away) and it doesn't come with coaching.

[Kiwimaz]

Ok so I got my new prescription for met. Is it ok to take it with psyllium? (Will the fibre reduce absorption).
We've agreed to have our attempts in Jan/Feb/March (Feb being ideal but I mc last time we started & it delayed things a bit getting back to O).
This means starting diet at the start of Oct.
Is there benefit to doing the diet longer or is there the risk of falling off the wagon before getting preg?
Should I buy a plan now or closer to Oct so I have more time on it at the other end?
Wondering about OLE and folate and ordering these from iherb.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes fiber can mess with met absorption so just don't take it at the same time of day. You also will want to avoid mixing metformin if you're having alcohol. The metformin is likely more effective than the fiber so if you can't get a schedule worked out to include them both please drop the fibr and keep the met.

Most people (buying the 6 month coaching) like to have the plan about 3 months before they plan to try. This gives 3 months of lead time and then 3 months swaying with my help. Our average time to conception is 3 months so for most people this works out just fine. You can also renew the coaching for a small fee if you need to.

12 weeks on diet before trying. No benefit to being on it longer than that before trying and in fact a risk that you'll stop ovulating if you cut back too far for too long.

I do give most people OLE and folate so that's a safe purchase.

[Kiwimaz]

Thanks so much, I decided to buy a personalised plan now since my schedule is a little less hectic at the moment and it gives me plenty of time to get sorted before starting PCOS LE etc. Also great I'll be up to 1500mg/day of met by then as well.
I know what you mean about mixing metformin with alcohol. Yuck.
Can you let me know what to do next and either link the questionnaire here or tell me to expect it by email.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok plus since you're on that high a dose I'd just skip fiber totally.

The link to the questionnaire is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/misc.php?do=forms