Chemical pregnancy...swaying, shortish LP or just bad luck?

[deaks66]

Need some advice ladies..

Yesterday i had a faint ic cheapy bfp, this was followed by a faint asda bfp. However while i was poas i started bleeding. Later in the afternoon i had a positive clearblue digi hpt but since then have been bleeding heavily and in a lot of pain. I headed down to my local A&E where they tested me bfn but by then my urine was so diluted and i hadn't had chance to hold it for longer than an hour max. Im pretty sure i have had a chemical pregnancy and just hoping its nothing more like ectopic. Am heading to the doctors tomorrow for more testing.

What id like your advice on is...

Have any of you had a short-ish LP (mine is 10-11 days max) but implanted so late that it has resulted in a chemical as your body was already shedding its lining? I have taken vitex from af to ov and b6 from ov to af for months but this is as much as i have been able to stretch it. Perhaps i should get back on the progesterone crinone next cycle but then my temps seem nice and high.

Do any of you think this could all be related to swaying? Im wandering if i have altered my bodies natural balance too much and also dh's (with liquorice root, cranberry and calcium).

Thanks for any advice you can give as im a bit of an emotional wreck about it!

[TTC5]

I'm so sorry your going through this xx
I hope your doctor can give you some answers and help tomorrow x

[zanacal]

More {hugs} deaks. I'm sure when Atomic reads your post later in the day she'll have something helpful to say.

[deaks66]

Thanks ladies, it's comforting to know people are here to listen and I hope atomic can give me some advice. Meant to add that the reason I went to A&E was because I had rung my out of hours doctors surgery and they had freaked me out a bit by mentioning looking out for ectopic symptoms which after a quick research on the Internet I felt like I did possibly have... Sharp pain, bleeding, back ache. Let's just hope its not that, but Im desperate to have some light shed in this especially as this has happened before several months ago.

[atomic sagebrush]

Firstly, I'm so sorry to hear about this. Sometimes I think the early HPTs are more a curse than a blessing because we know about things we never would have before. Huge (((hugs))) to you.

What you say is absolutely correct, it is entirely possible to have a short 10-11 day LP and both get pg and also have a chemical because your lining has already begun to deteriorate. 10-11 days is borderline and can go either way so if you had a late implanter that scenario is entirely possible.

I think you need to be on the B6 for the entire month. Vitamins, unlike herbs like vitex, need to be taken consistently both for your own health (your body gets "used" to vitamin intake at a certain level) and also for best effectiveness.

I personally believe, and I am not the only one who has noticed this independent from one another, that there are an unusually high number of chemicals amongst pink swayers doing an IG style sway. There are several threads where people ask about this on IG which I would love to post for you but I am getting monkeys, if you're curious you can Google them when IG is functioning. Tamara believes strongly that this is not true and claims that 80% of all eggs are bad according to her doctor, and that this is what causes chemicals, but several people have noticed the chemicals are disproportionately amongst pink swayers and less among blue swayers. Plus I kinda think that 80% number is a bit silly and pulled from thin air whether it came from a doctor or not, since a lot of us have gotten pg many times with our first egg - is she really saying you can only get pg 2 or 3 months out of the year due to bad eggs?? Without a study comparing blue swayers to pink swayers, we can't know for sure.

There could potentially be many reasons why this could be and I hope you don't beat yourself up over it. Blood glucose levels are one possibility so I would be sure to stick with whatever diet you're following at least for the first few days of the 2WW (yes, after egg has been fertilized) and I have also wondered about cal-mag levels or possibly low potassium contributing to chemicals. The starting and stopping B6 is probably not helping matters either so again, I do hope you'll stay on B6 constantly or else stop it all together (weaning off slowly rather than quitting cold turkey).

Clomid is another option for extending LP and it will also sway pink for you. Personally, if I had a short LP I would def. consider talking to my doctor about that and seeing if they'd give me some Clomid.

I would not worry about ectopic if you are getting BFN. If you were having an ectopic, you would be getting BFP and things would seem like they were going normally but then you would develop bleeding and pain.

Anyway, I hope this is helpful in some way...I know chemicals can be very difficult to get through and I am thinking of you.

[deaks66]

Thanks atomic, there is a lot of advice there that I will definately adopt! Trying not to beat myself up about it.

Today I got another ic bfp and a little darker than yesterday. The bleeding continues but the pain isn't as bad.

I had been prescribed progesterone crinone which I don't know whether I should start taking or is it too late?

Waiting for the doctor to call back. Feeling helpless, sad, annoyed with myself....

[deaks66]

Right just spoke to a doctor and she says that because pain has pretty much stopped and I've now got normal af with a few clots that definately had a chemical and that should get bfn in a few days. Will head to docs tomorrow so that I can get some blood tests done and talk about what could have caused it.... Shortish LP or whatever. Perhaps I need clomid or to get back on the progesterone.

Am also going to take a serious look at my sway and see what I will relax. Definitely going to either stop b6 or take it continuously ( but would be worried about delaying ov even more by doing that) and possibly stop vitex, limit dh's liquorice root, not bother with lime and also continue the diet after ov for a few days. Is there anything else anyone else could suggest?

The doctor also suggested I don't ttc this cycle but wait for another af to take place. Is this what most ladies do? Feels like an eternity when I've already been swaying so long.

[Flava]

What you say is absolutely correct, it is entirely possible to have a short 10-11 day LP and both get pg and also have a chemical because your lining has already begun to deteriorate. 10-11 days is borderline and can go either way so if you had a late implanter that scenario is entirely possible.

Same thing happened to me when I got a bfp 2 cycles ago. My PL was on 11 day and last cycle I got a bfn and spotting started 9-10 day after O.
I don't know what to do?? I really hope this cycle will be ok...a longer LP? Or just enough to get a sticky bfp...I use to have like 12-13 days...
And about the 80% egg are bad plz...I think that a BS. And based on what ONE doctor said? Doctors are not Gods they can be wrong too and this was just one .I never heard any other doc say this .

[deaks66]

Flava, you should go see a doctor as they can definately give you something for short LP. They gave me progesterone crinone which increased it to 13 or 14 days. Just wish I had used it every cycle but I stopped as I didn't particularly like the symptoms and also I wanted to see if my LP was ok on it's own. Big mistake I feel though I'm not going to keep beating myself up about it. Just use the knowledge and move on.

[Flava]

I have B6 would it help if I start taking it?? But Im on CD10 now...can't go see a doctor right now...

[deaks66]

Yeah I would though I have normally taken it ov to af as my ov date is already on the late side and I didn't want to risk delaying it further. What day is you ov normally? Looks like atomic suggests taking it the whole cycle.

[Flava]

Oh no way I would like to o late this cycle! I don't always O on the same day so it's hard to tell. I O'd on Cd14-17-18 before...
So it do help if i take it from O to AF? What if we get a BFP ?Do I stop taking it or how do we stop?

[deaks66]

Well I was led to believe that it was fine to take it from ov to af only and then ween off it by halving the amount you take each day ( by literally chopping a tablet up) but it does make sense what atomic is saying. I guess we both need to do more research into this. I'm also keen to get the the bottom of what's actually causing my shortish LP as it was never like this when I conceived my boys. That's what I'm going to sort out at the docs tomorrow.

[atomic sagebrush]

Right just spoke to a doctor and she says that because pain has pretty much stopped and I've now got normal af with a few clots that definately had a chemical and that should get bfn in a few days. Will head to docs tomorrow so that I can get some blood tests done and talk about what could have caused it.... Shortish LP or whatever. Perhaps I need clomid or to get back on the progesterone.

Am also going to take a serious look at my sway and see what I will relax. Definitely going to either stop b6 or take it continuously ( but would be worried about delaying ov even more by doing that) and possibly stop vitex, limit dh's liquorice root, not bother with lime and also continue the diet after ov for a few days. Is there anything else anyone else could suggest?

The doctor also suggested I don't ttc this cycle but wait for another af to take place. Is this what most ladies do? Feels like an eternity when I've already been swaying so long.

Many people believe that the first cycle after a miscarriage sways pink, now whether chemicals affect hormones enough to actually sway pink, probably not. Still, it might be worth just going for it, a lot of doctors will tell you it's fine to do so.

Oing on time isn't going to matter if your LP is short, KWIM? If you need the B6 to lengthen your LP, then take it and just accept that your O may be off a bit.

Personally, if you are having issues with both delayed O and short LP, I would go Clomid all the way. Since you need your doc on board for that, you might want to go ahead and TTC naturally for the first cycle since he/she advised against pg this first month, then return and try to get Clomid.

[atomic sagebrush]

Same thing happened to me when I got a bfp 2 cycles ago. My PL was on 11 day and last cycle I got a bfn and spotting started 9-10 day after O.
I don't know what to do?? I really hope this cycle will be ok...a longer LP? Or just enough to get a sticky bfp...I use to have like 12-13 days...
And about the 80% egg are bad plz...I think that a BS. And based on what ONE doctor said? Doctors are not Gods they can be wrong too and this was just one .I never heard any other doc say this .

Flava, I have been wondering if maybe the doctor actually said, something like 80% of all the eggs you're born with are bad, and maybe this is a misinterpretation of that. Because so many of us have gotten pg the first month or two of trying (or not even trying, totally on accident), at least once during our lives, it just doesn't seem possible. I think a lot of eggs start to develop and yeah, who knows, maybe 80% of them are bad and they just don't develop, but I seriously doubt that the eggs that are released, that 80% of them are rotten or whatever.

[ladybug]

B6 works for me. I usuall start taking it on cd1 and I take it all month long. My lp is 10 days usually.
Both times I used it i got pregnant and I continued to take it because it helps with nausea.
Good luck. I also had 2 chemicals while swaying pink. I didn't take a break after either. I am now waiting
Until jan to start again because I am recovering from an ectopic

[atomic sagebrush]

Well I was led to believe that it was fine to take it from ov to af only and then ween off it by halving the amount you take each day ( by literally chopping a tablet up) but it does make sense what atomic is saying. I guess we both need to do more research into this. I'm also keen to get the the bottom of what's actually causing my shortish LP as it was never like this when I conceived my boys. That's what I'm going to sort out at the docs tomorrow.

Just want to point out why that is bad advice (and not saying that is in ANY way your fault Deaks, just to illustrate the safer way to wean yourself off vitamins) that cutting a pill in half every day would drop you from let's say 100 mg to practically nothing in about 2 days. Your body just can't adjust so quickly. If you do want to wean yourself off, be sure to cut your pill, take that dose for a few days, then cut the pill again, hold steady for a few days, lather, rinse, repeat, until you're finally taking very little. You can even space the small doses out every other day or two before you cut them out completely.

I still would rather see you take the B6 for awhile. My doctor told me to take it during the first tri to help with morning sickness - it didn't though LOL!!! ;)

[Flava]

So the B6 don't make us O late? I really want to take it in hope to get a bfp and not to have a m/c but I really don't want to o late.

[atomic sagebrush]

Flava, you should go see a doctor as they can definately give you something for short LP. They gave me progesterone crinone which increased it to 13 or 14 days. Just wish I had used it every cycle but I stopped as I didn't particularly like the symptoms and also I wanted to see if my LP was ok on it's own. Big mistake I feel though I'm not going to keep beating myself up about it. Just use the knowledge and move on.

You never know though, it may very well have been that this one just wasn't meant to be for some other reason that had nothing to do with the progesterone. :sadflwr: I do agree though, docs can easily fix low prog and so no one needs to just tough it out, this is one thing they really CAN help you with.

[atomic sagebrush]

I have B6 would it help if I start taking it?? But Im on CD10 now...can't go see a doctor right now...

It's never too late to start taking it - obviously it won't have as strong an effect as if you'd been on it for several months but it can't hurt.

[Flava]

:sigh:i also tried for m/s of course nothing helped me for that

[deaks66]

Thanks atomic, I will add clomid to the list of things to talk about with my doctor tomorrow. Have managed to palm my sons off to a friend so I can have a proper discussion and get any appropriate blood work done to find out what's going on. Think if I get a bfn in the next few days (instead of the line getting darker as it has so far) then I will go ahead and try again this cycle. But first I need to get a miscarriage confirmed.

Ladybug, my LP also 10 days but think it may well not have been long enough for me this cycle. Seems to just depend whether u implant early or late. Sorry to hear you have had 2 chemicals and an ectopic, scary stuff. Did you stop swaying before you had an ectopic pg?

[annabel♥lee]

I'm so sorry. :(

I also had a chemical while swaying pink, and then a miscarriage a year later (6 weeks) again pink sway. I have wondered if pink sways cause m/c. I sure hope not. It's taken me forever to get pregnant each time so it's very frustrating when it ends in m/c. *sigh*

(((hugs)))

[Flava]

Oh and just how much B6 ? I have tablets 50 mg.

[deaks66]

Thanks atomic, I hadn't yet reduced the b6 so I will definately follow your advice. Think there should be clearer advice on IG over this. Tbh, I really think this pg was definately not meant to be as the cronic cramps and backache I have had has been going on for nearly a week and not just a day or so, so there was obviously something not quite right. Have learnt a lot though that I'm going to put into practise from now on. Perhaps I will write down my sway including what I I'll do after a bfp and get you to check it over atomic if that's ok?

[deaks66]

Sorry to hear that Annabel. I am definately going to relax elements of my sway such as the lime, hardcore diet and supps (I'm sure this has upset my body's balance) and also get clued up on how to prevent miscarriage in the future.

[Indira]

Hi deaks, sorry about your chemical :HH:
I have a 10-11 days LP too, and I had a chemical on my first month of swaying in July.
I got faint positives on IC for a couple of days and AF didn´t arrive but then showed up at 14 dpo. And I had (sorry if TMI) a big cloth of blood that came out. I did wonder at first if it happened because I still was on the LE diet, wondered if the little thingy hadn´t gotten enough nutrients, but that´s just because I wanted to look for a reason that in reality I will never find out, these things just happen.
I also had a chemical and a miscarriage when trying for DC2, and I wasn´t swaying then (-but my LP might have been short 10-11 back then aswell, I didn´t chart my cycle but had really short cycles).
For this chemical in July I never really wondered if it was because my LP was too short since AF did stay away at first, so I think the egg made it in time to implant, something just went wrong.
Now I am taking B6 80 mg every day through OV, just because it might help.
It didn´t delay OV for me by the way.
Hope you´ll be fine and catch an egg soon :)

[deaks66]

Thanks indira, everyones kind words are making me feel so much better though tears keep catching me unawares... God knows how I would deal with anything heavier than a chemical! I will definately take b6 continuously unless the doctors put me back on progesterone crinone which will increase my LP anyway. I hope you too will catch an egg soon. Although I have been ttc quite a while and on the diet for months and months, this was the first month I did a strict o+12 so at least I know the timing bit works as I couldn't seem to get pg with my boys or whilst swaying using a cutoff.

[Hobbermittens]

Flava, I have been wondering if maybe the doctor actually said, something like 80% of all the eggs you're born with are bad, and maybe this is a misinterpretation of that. Because so many of us have gotten pg the first month or two of trying (or not even trying, totally on accident), at least once during our lives, it just doesn't seem possible. I think a lot of eggs start to develop and yeah, who knows, maybe 80% of them are bad and they just don't develop, but I seriously doubt that the eggs that are released, that 80% of them are rotten or whatever.

A doctor once told me that on average, women only have a 20% chance of getting pregnant each month. He didn't say anything about the eggs, though, and I assumed it was a combination of factors that would contribute to that 20%. Plus, 20% seemed really low to me.

Maybe that's where Tamara got the 80%? the flip side of the 20%?

[Hobbermittens]

Oh, and Deaks, I am sorry about the chemical. :( I hope you get things sorted out!

[ladybug]

Sorry about your chemical Deaks...
I was swaying pink when I had my ectopic...I'm sure it had nothing to do with swaying....just bad placement...unfortunately I lost a tube so I won't be hardcore swaying anymore and will consider myself lucky just to get pregnant again....It doesn't take away my desire for a daughter....

I was taking 100mg of B6 and will do the same in January....Good luck ladies!!!

[deaks66]

Oh ladybug I'm so sorry to hear that. I don't think I will be hardcore swaying either, these things really put life into perspective. X

[rainbowflower]

Deaks so sorry...

I have a LP defect too and had an 11 day LP before having my son, I conceived twice with an 11 day LP.

I read that most fertilised eggs fail to implant, up to 75% of them. That's partly why I'm keeping up the raspberry leaf tea to make my lining smoother but maybe its worth also taking a pregnancy-safe omega 3+6 supplement too... I do think that could be vital for those with a luteal phase defect and think the benefits would outweigh any small blue sway effect.
If you dtd on ov day you still only have a 30% chance of conceiving each cycle even without swaying, so its no wonder pink swaying can take a while.

Deaks I really hope you can heal and get a sticky rainbow baby very soon

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk

[BlueHem]

I was taking b6 for my lp, lp spotting and to dry up my milk (still producing some even though I'd stopped nursing ds1 9 months earlier), when I got my bfp with ds2. I then slowly reduced my intake during the first trimester and was only taking what was in my prenatal by 15weeks. I deliberately bought tabs low in dosage so that I could do this easily. I've no idea if the b6 really worked as I still spotted that cycle and had light flow 4dpo - 10dpo, but that was month 3 of taking it with no breaks.

[deaks66]

Had my doctors appointment this morning and just need to monitor bleeding and retest tomorrow to check its neg by then (was already more faint this morning). Then she has given me a prescription for more progesterone crinone which i really recommend for LP defect and wish i hadn't stopped using it but the side effect is that you feel really pg for the 2ww.

Going to get blood tests done this afternoon to check i have no anemia/thyroid problem just so i can rule out what is potentially causing short LP/chemical.

Still feeling very tearful...a combination of being sad for loosing this pg, fed up with swaying since feb and the thought of having to get back on the diet for who knows how long. Not sure i mentioned before though but the upside is that i got pg the first month of strict o+12 so looks like that is the way forward for me.

[deaks66]

Still deciding whether to take b6 as it sounds like it would be better to take it constantly not just ov to af but then i really don't want to delay ov anymore than it is. If the progesterone is lengthening my LP is there any need for me to take it?

[indigoviolet]

Gosh it is so hard Deaks, sending lots of love and positive vibes your way. At least you have a way forward and know you can get pg with your O+12. Good luck this cycle hun. At least your hormones will be more girly this cycle.

[Indira]

Still deciding whether to take b6 as it sounds like it would be better to take it constantly not just ov to af but then i really don't want to delay ov anymore than it is. If the progesterone is lengthening my LP is there any need for me to take it?
I think progesteron is more effective than B6 for your luteal phase, so no you wouldn´t have to take B6 if you can take progesteron.

[Indira]

See, now I´ve read your previous post :)
Good your dr is running some tests on you, so you can feel reassured everything is ok.
And it´s great he´s giving you progesterone, that will help for sure!
Sorry to hear you have been swaying since february :( you sure deserve a pink pregnancy now!
Did you do O12 attempts all this time?
You´re not alone, we´re all struggling on diet with you!
FX you will be pregnant again real soon

[deaks66]

Thanks indira, think i will just stick with the progesterone then. No this was my first strict o+12, well actually it was o+12 ish and o+14 ish give or take a few hours. Previous months i have done combo but i i knew it wasn't right for me for the following reasons.

1. I never managed to get pg with my sons with a cut off. It only happened when we dtd the eve of a smiley and the following eve.
2. Since i've been swaying i have found it hard to predict my cutoff and therefore always started bd too early meaning that my dh had to release for nights on end. By the time it came to a small cut off and then o+12 he was finding it hard to shoot anything!

Im so glad the o+12 worked and it was also after a period of abstinence so there was definitely a full load there :)

Just trying to decide whether to do the post bd lime douche again or whether this could have caused problems?? it was only a tiny amount 0.45ml.

[deaks66]

Gosh it is so hard Deaks, sending lots of love and positive vibes your way. At least you have a way forward and know you can get pg with your O+12. Good luck this cycle hun. At least your hormones will be more girly this cycle.

Thanks indigo, you always have such kind words :) Do you really think a chemical sways girl? i wasn't sure the hormones would be enough? Also kicking myself for having 11 days off the diet but then perhaps my body needed it.

[DoulaMama]

So sorry about your loss, Mama xoxo You will get pregnant again! Positive thoughts coming your way~~~~

[deaks66]

Thanks doulamama! I have an april 18th baby...such a lovely time of year for a birthday! X

[atomic sagebrush]

A doctor once told me that on average, women only have a 20% chance of getting pregnant each month. He didn't say anything about the eggs, though, and I assumed it was a combination of factors that would contribute to that 20%. Plus, 20% seemed really low to me.

Maybe that's where Tamara got the 80%? the flip side of the 20%?

Hmmm...good point!

One thing that has always bugged me about that 20% number is that a lot of people aren't necessarily doing everything in their power to conceive, KWIM?? Like a lot of people just BD on CD 14 even tho a lot of women don't even O on CD 14.

On the Deanna's Plan site it says that when people follow the plan 40% of them get pg...that makes me think the number just has to be higher. Now some pg do go onto be lost, but I'm not totally convinced that a lost pg always means a bad egg, you know??

[atomic sagebrush]

I was taking b6 for my lp, lp spotting and to dry up my milk (still producing some even though I'd stopped nursing ds1 9 months earlier), when I got my bfp with ds2. I then slowly reduced my intake during the first trimester and was only taking what was in my prenatal by 15weeks. I deliberately bought tabs low in dosage so that I could do this easily. I've no idea if the b6 really worked as I still spotted that cycle and had light flow 4dpo - 10dpo, but that was month 3 of taking it with no breaks.


Thanks Blue, I think that is the perfect way to ease off the B6. :agree:

[atomic sagebrush]

Still deciding whether to take b6 as it sounds like it would be better to take it constantly not just ov to af but then i really don't want to delay ov anymore than it is. If the progesterone is lengthening my LP is there any need for me to take it?

No, but just be sure you are able to keep up with the prog supps throughout the first trimester without missing a day!!

[deaks66]

Thanks atomic, yeah i can definitely do that!

[atomic sagebrush]

Good girl!!