Folic Acid concern....Atomic?

[Blessedbymybabies]

Hi again Atomic, I apologize if this has been asked a zillion times before, but I know every individual case varies.
So a little update, im about what I suspect to be 12/13 days DPO according to my OPKs this month. 1 attempt day before positive OPK. Started testing a few days ago, and just yesterday got a super faint squinter, twice. I know its there because I was trying to make myself see something the days before that but nothing lol I thought I would be scared after the loss of my baby with a heart defect to see that line. But at this point, I felt nothing but happiness. Im hopeful itll be okay this time. Reminding myself I had two healthy littles before.

Right now im treating myself as being pregnant, back on prenatals today. Will probably take another test tomorrow, for the satisfaction of seeing that line darker :) That being said I want to do everything right. After my baby passed away (He had multiple heart defects and his heart eventually stopped) the nurse booked me for a pre conception apointment (took 5 months to get in) at the high risk clinic which I had a few days ago. I had mentioned to her that I was taking 2 mg of folic acid. Her reply was well, can you take 4 mg from now on. I told her yes.

I did start that the same day, but the more I think about it, I feel like it is a crazy amount. I know it is said that it might also help prevent some heart defects as well as NTD's. But I also read a study (I wanted to post it but I cant find it for the life of me anymore, I read it on my phone last night) that had concerns of Autism in high doeses of folic acid, as well as masking b12 deficiencies etc. Now Im worried, as I already felt that 2 mg was well over double recommended dose, but my family doctor had told me to start that after my baby passed. I feel why not be safe and keep it at 2 mg since its high but not too high, But then I feel there may be a reason the other doctor told me to start 4 mg.

Do you have any insight Atomic? Also Im running low and was going to head out to grab some more today, I was going to try to get myself some Folate this time. But then I noticed the brand I take (Jamieson) On the front of the bottle it says Folic Acid 1 MG, but on the side, it says "each tablet contains: Folate (Folic acid)...1 mg
so im not sure if this is folate or folic acid.

I hope to hear some insight soon. I dont want to harm my baby and I feel I really do get conflicting advice from doctors here. Im just really concerned about causing issues or Autism by doing this wrong...

[atomic sagebrush]

If it says folic acid it is NOT folate. It needs to say only folate (or methlyfolate) and not folic acid anywhere on it.

Weirdly, I just had a very similar question, you can read the whole thing here:

But since no one ever clicks links I copied my answer in the thread below

I am so terribly sorry to hear of your loss.

Yes, I have, but happy to go over it again.

The data does NOT indicate that folic/folate causes twins. Researchers studied this phenomenon and concluded that it's much more likely that taking folic/folate simply enables both babies to survive and develop normally instead of becoming a vanishing twin which is really very common (and happened to me personally). We actually have kind of done a "study" on this ourselves on this site, where we find pink swayers (even without using Clomid) have far more twins than blue swayers even though blue swayers are taking MORE folic acid/folate. So I do not find that to be in any way a legit concern; if it were, we'd be seeing way more twins in our blue swayers than in our pink ones but we don't.

There are several studies that indicate that folic/folate PREVENT preterm birth and cerebral palsy among many other issues - NTDs, of course, but also possibly chromosomal abnormalities. Here are two: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19434228 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26138063 I think it is misguided to fear folic/folate when it is the only supplement ever proven to prevent birth defects when taken before conception.

Many of us, myself included, were prescribed 4000-5000 mcg F/FA. The amount I recommend is a fraction of that and the reason why I do so is because I conceived a baby with a neural tube defect taking 800 mcg folic acid daily and eating a very healthy and varied diet (he is thankfully fine with only a minor NTD) So I have firsthand experience that even 800 is not enough and thus I recommend 1200-1600 since swayers are eating a more restricted diet.

There is some data that indicates high levels of folic acid in a mother's blood AT BIRTH may be linked to autism and also that taking high dose folic in the third tri may cause asthma. But we wean off the f/FA months before that and additionally, the high levels in the blood are NOT NORMAL - the body should excrete folic acid and that it doesn't, means something is happening in the bodies of these women that is making them continue to store folic acid (and this can be done via diet and just a standard dose, not megadoses, since most people don't even take megadoses anyway) Plus, by taking folate, you prevent these concerns anyway as folate is better used by the body and doesn't get stored up the way folic acid does.

I hope this helps to alleviate your concerns. The SINGLE best thing you can do for a healthy pregnancy is to take folate or folic acid. If you have any reason to believe you have MTHFR or similar genetic mutation, take folate instead, but most people can tolerate folic acid just fine.

[atomic sagebrush]

Now, to answer your question more specifically - yes, it is a high dose but it is the dose that many of us who have had a baby with some kind of folic-prevented issue, end up taking. I personally took the 4000 mcg (that's 4 mg, same amount you have been prescribed) twice after my 3rd child had a neural tube defect (despite taking 800 mcg in a prenatal before and during preganncy and eating super healthfully) and my subsequent 2 children did not have any NTD issues. Some of us, our bodies just need more folic/folate than we get even when we're taking the 800-1000 recommendation.

Now, to reiterate - the deal with "high folic acid" and autism was NOT necessarily in women taking high doses of folic acid!! If you read the study (which I have) it states they do not even know how much if any folic acid these women were taking - because many foods are fortified with folic acid and it is totally possible to get all the folic you need from fortified foods alone. It was in women who, for reasons unknown, their bodies stored up massive amounts (way more than what we're taking to prevent NTDs. You are meant to excrete excess water soluble vitamins in your urine and these women's bodies didn't do that. Folic acid should not be saved up in the body like that, it is why we have to take it every day, and that their bodies were not doing that, means that something was not functioning as it should. Additionally, these levels were at BIRTH and we wean off the extra folic acid at the end of the first trimester (gradually by spacing doses further and further out till down to one per week, then you can stop and take only the amount in the prenatal)

Folate also does not have the potential to add up the way that folic does since your body can process it more easily so the entire issue can be circumvented by taking only folate and not folic acid.

Now, if you're really uncomfortable with it, yes, the 2000 mcg is still going to be better but there is a REASON why doctors will prescribe 4000 mcg to women with a history of NTD and other issues possibly caused by low folate. It's because they've seen better results with 4000 mcg rather than 2000. I personally took the 4000, my subsequent 2 children are perfectly normal (and in fact my two brightest!! LOL) and neither has the NTD like my 3rd does. So for me, I felt good about it and would suggest it if your doc thinks it is beneficial to you. :heart: I know it's really hard to decide what to do when there seems to be conflicting data but lots and lots of us took 4000-5000 mcg and had good results with it.

[Blessedbymybabies]

Hi Atomic. To be honest, I did see that post before. At the time I was not concerned about taking 2 mg, i believe it was before I was recommended the 4 MG. I had popped on the site at a time I just had a minute and said I would read through it later. But I do not know what the post was called after that or where it was, and crazy me turned to dr google instead lol so I thought I would ask. Anyhow, I do appreciate you going through it again for me.

And that was all very helpful! As well as to know that you took 4 mg as well. I understand how it works now and you did alleviate some concerns! I think I will stick to that dosage and wean off later through pregnancy as you suggested. I guess what comes to my mind is,
Would one not know wether or not they would be one of those people who happen to store high doses of folic acid, instead of excreting it the way it should be. Is that correct? is that something a woman of good health should be concerened about?

I did try to find straight folate today but no luck! I did find at a health food store but it had added b12 to it, and Im not sure if I can take multiple tabletes of that with the extra b12. And I just now seen some straight 5-MTHF 1 mg Folate on Amazon. So my question is, is it necessary? Do you suggest me to take folate over Folic Acid? Because my doctor has never mentioned it to me at all. and I would not know any different if it werent for this site. Its kind of hard to Un-see now you know!
I did take another pregnancy test and its a clearer positive! (I couldn't wait lol) so I will address this with her as well when I set a prenatal. But I was thinking for now to order the 5-MTHF 1 mg Folate and take it 3 times a day (As my prenatal has 1 mg of folic acid)? This is the supplement: https://www.amazon.ca/Thorne-Research-Vitamin-Supplement-Capsules/dp/B00FY8IQ7C/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

TIA <3

[atomic sagebrush]

No no, please don't worry about it, I wasn't calling you out for not reading the thread, I was explaining why I was copying and pasting a reply, it was because I'd literally just written one the day before and I figured "eh why write this all over again". :) I hope that makes sense, it was just me taking a shortcut.

You don't know if you're the person who stores the high amount of FA. Some of these people will have had recurrent miscarriages and it makes some sense that if you'd had a child with autism to maybe use folate instead. People with blood clotting disorders should always use folate. It's a guessing game.

I'd order it online for the sake of your sway, B12 may sway blue in high amounts.

Doctors know a lot of stuff but there are like 3 things I'm more an expert on than they are and one of them is the folate/folic acid thing. So docs are not always up to speed on that (it's a little bit of a natural foods/vitamins issue and there are occasionally hard feelz between Western medicine practitioners and naturopaths. I'm not the hugest fan of naturopaths either but this is one thing they're correct about). Folate is better and there's somewhat of an explanation here (it's a little overly technical and I'm not sure how much of this is proven): https://wellnessmama.com/12543/folic-acid-vs-folate/ So if you can afford it, I'd take the folate just to be on the safest side since you have the concern about it.

Yes I'd def. have you on something for now and then add in the folate when it arrives. Technically you are supposed to do only folate, no folic acid if you're concerned you could have issues processing FA.

[Blessedbymybabies]

Ah I see! Interesting. Okay I will order the folate and start it when it arrives. So my prenatal as I said does contain 1 MG of Folic A. I dont mind taking it in that amount with the prenatal because I always have that doesnt concern me. Is it okay to still add my 3 mg Folate and that 1 mg of Folic A together? Because I really really do want a prenatal in my pregnancy diet, it was hard to get myself to stop it for my sway. Gives me peace of mind. Might be a dumb question sorry but its good to be sure!

Now you did mention that the B12 may sway blue, I wont be taking that But im wondering (Last question I promise! lol) At this point if Im getting a BFP, I was under the impression I would be able to ease into normal diet/vitamins again? I dont go crazy on vitamins. But one thing I do like to take religiously up until my sway (I dropped them) is prenatals and vitamin D (And some good quality Omega 3 fish oils when I can), So i have brought them back into my diet now, since i assumed the sex is determined at conception. Is this okay?

[atomic sagebrush]

yes it's totally fine to take folate and FA together, it's just that the handful of people who really can't have the FA need to totally avoid it. :)

Well, a squinter on a pg test doesn't always end up being a viable pg so I was kind of trying to advise you in the case that the squinter fades away. If you have gotten a true positive yes you can have B12 now. Yes, the sex is determined at conception and I want everyone to start at least a prenatal with 1000 IU vit D (or take extra D if less is in their prenatal) and DHA supps such as Omega 3 fish oil once they get BFP.