Another round of clomid-Atomic need advice please!

[jenn1112]

I’m starting another round of clomid (4th) and need to know what to do...e4d with extra attempt at +opk didn’t work (my 3rd round this time).
I got a positive opk at 6am cd 12 and we did it that night and the next. Attempts were cd (7, 9, 12, 13, 16)

Do I go to every other day this time? Please help with what I should do. I’m so upset that this time didn’t work [emoji20]
Thank you, J


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[atomic sagebrush]

DO NOT go to every other day. Not only does that possibly sway blue, but it's not even good chances of conception because it's really very easy to end up with only one good attempt in the fertile window (worse odds than e4d plus one) You can easily end up with attempts on O-5, O-3, O-1 and only the O-1 is really going to be viable. Or O-6, O-4, O-2, and O Day and often the O Day shot will be too late to capacitate and make it to the egg, and the O-2 is just going to be one attempt. YOu will ALWAYS have 2 attempts with e4d plus one.

Just because you didn't get pregnant this month doesn't mean that e4d plus one "didn't work" or won't ever work for conception. Some months just are not the month, egg was a dud, sperm didn't make it to the egg, something went wrong very early on in fertilization, etc.

You need to keep going with e4d beyond CD 16 in case of delayed ovulation.

I would have you give e4d plus one another month. We could add in something like Preseed or guaifenesin or female O to boost odds of conception. ARe you doing anything like shallow release or j and d???

OR, if you are ready to do this, we can go to SMEP (sperm meets egg plan) which is here: Sperm Meets Egg Plan (http://www.pregnancyloss.info/sperm_meets_egg_plan.htm)

[jenn1112]

DO NOT go to every other day. Not only does that possibly sway blue, but it's not even good chances of conception because it's really very easy to end up with only one good attempt in the fertile window (worse odds than e4d plus one) You can easily end up with attempts on O-5, O-3, O-1 and only the O-1 is really going to be viable. Or O-6, O-4, O-2, and O Day and often the O Day shot will be too late to capacitate and make it to the egg, and the O-2 is just going to be one attempt. YOu will ALWAYS have 2 attempts with e4d plus one.

Just because you didn't get pregnant this month doesn't mean that e4d plus one "didn't work" or won't ever work for conception. Some months just are not the month, egg was a dud, sperm didn't make it to the egg, something went wrong very early on in fertilization, etc.

You need to keep going with e4d beyond CD 16 in case of delayed ovulation.

I would have you give e4d plus one another month. We could add in something like Preseed or guaifenesin or female O to boost odds of conception. ARe you doing anything like shallow release or j and d???

OR, if you are ready to do this, we can go to SMEP (sperm meets egg plan) which is here: Sperm Meets Egg Plan (http://www.pregnancyloss.info/sperm_meets_egg_plan.htm)

Thank you so much! I’ve been kinda obsessive with the opks this cycle...doing 3 different brands and testing 3-4x a day with clear blue advanced. Well, yesterday (cd13) I got what looked to be maybe positive on wondfo opk (lines pretty much same color) and the 4th flashing high on clear blue. So we did not have sex on cd 13 (we did have sex cd 12) because I waS pretty sure I’d get a peak on CB in the morning cd 14-but today I got another flashing high and the wondfo line was lighter. So I’m assuming I’m ovulating today? Even though I never got a peak on CB despite checking 3 times a day. Anyway, we did another attempt this early this morning (cd14) but I think it was a very shallow release unintentionally :(
Should we Have sex again Friday? I’m out of clear blue opks and they internet cheapies just don’t seem to work for me ( I never seem to get a true postive). Or do I just do E4d from here. This may be my last round of clomid so I really want to get pregnant. Is SMEP on clomid more girl friendly than one attempt or E4d without clomid?


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[jenn1112]

Thank you so much! I’ve been kinda obsessive with the opks this cycle...doing 3 different brands and testing 3-4x a day with clear blue advanced. Well, yesterday (cd13) I got what looked to be maybe positive on wondfo opk (lines pretty much same color) and the 4th flashing high on clear blue. So we did not have sex on cd 13 (we did have sex cd 12) because I waS pretty sure I’d get a peak on CB in the morning cd 14-but today I got another flashing high and the wondfo line was lighter. So I’m assuming I’m ovulating today? Even though I never got a peak on CB despite checking 3 times a day. Anyway, we did another attempt this early this morning (cd14) but I think it was a very shallow release unintentionally :(
Should we Have sex again Friday? I’m out of clear blue opks and they internet cheapies just don’t seem to work for me ( I never seem to get a true postive). Or do I just do E4d from here. This may be my last round of clomid so I really want to get pregnant. Is SMEP on clomid more girl friendly than one attempt or E4d without clomid?


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Sorry, this is so wordy! To sum it up we dtd CD 7, 10, 12,14 (I got a pretty close positive wondfo on CD13 but only “high [emoji3]”on CB)
The attempt on CD 14 I’m not even sure was great—hubby felt pressured so it was a BJ and then just put it in and released [emoji51] does that count? I’m sure it was maybe more of a shallow release so not sure how much got in there? (So sorry TMI)
Thanks again for all your help! This all is so stressful and I really appreciate you helping




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[atomic sagebrush]

No, you can't assume anything. I would keep having sex every 4 days at the least and I'd probably keep testing just in case so you can do another attempt at pos OPK again when it comes.

yes that attempt still counts but I'd keep doing OPK so you can have another attempt even if it's tomorrow. We just can't leave anything up to halfway attempt this month. And then no matter what please keep doing e4d even if you're absolutely sure you've ovulated!

[jenn1112]

No, you can't assume anything. I would keep having sex every 4 days at the least and I'd probably keep testing just in case so you can do another attempt at pos OPK again when it comes.

yes that attempt still counts but I'd keep doing OPK so you can have another attempt even if it's tomorrow. We just can't leave anything up to halfway attempt this month. And then no matter what please keep doing e4d even if you're absolutely sure you've ovulated!

Okay thank you! I’ll go buy more clear blue opks tomorrow and keep testing. I’m even wondering if I should try to do another attempt tonight?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Sure, have another attempt! Clomid is the best of the best tactic there is!

[jenn1112]

Okay thank you! I’ll go buy more clear blue opks tomorrow and keep testing. I’m even wondering if I should try to do another attempt tonight?


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I’ll keep having sex but I think I ovulated yesterday (cd14)based on cramping and my Internet cheap opks were lighter yesterday and today. That must have been my positive on cd13 even though the line was only the same color as the control line. What are my chances of 0-2 and O day?


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[atomic sagebrush]

good chance of conception and we get very good results for pink with Clomid + 2 attempts. :)

[jenn1112]

good chance of conception and we get very good results for pink with Clomid + 2 attempts. :)

Awesome! Thank you!


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[jenn1112]

Awesome! Thank you!


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Hi Atomic, I’m only 5-6 days past ovulation but I’m already thinking I’m not pregnant :(
This was my 7th round so far of clomid (4th for after miscarriage). It ended up being every other day 10-16 and positive opk on day 13 (did not have sex that night)—I wanted to but hubby could not.

I’m now so scared thinking it’s from taking the clomid? Is my body damaged from the miscarriage or too thin of lining from so long on clomid? I’m going for my day 21 blood draw Wednesday and I’m wondering if I should do an 8th round of clomid?
I feel like with every other day I should have gotten pregnant, right?

I’ve gotten pregnant the first time we tried with all 3 boys, now I’m terrified that I’m never going to get pregnant again [emoji22]

If you think I should do clomid, what’s the best way to get pregnant? SMEP starting on day 10? My husband can’t have sex too much in a row so I’m worried he’ll get burned out and can’t perform when it’s +OPK again


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[atomic sagebrush]

You can't damage your body in the long term from taking Clomid. While Clomid can lower odds of conception by affecting the lining and your EWCM, all you have to do is stop taking the Clomid and it fixes itself.

NO, every other day does not automatically get you pregnant. In fact I don't even like it for getting people pregnant because it's often enough so DH can sometimes have performance trouble and at the same time it's entirely possible to end up with attempts on O-4 (too early), O-2, and O Day (often too late). This is one attempt! Plus, it takes fully fertile people doing nothing to sway, an average of 3-6 months to fall pregnant. If in the past you have gotten pregnant more quickly, that was just good fortune and not a guarantee that you will always do that and it doesn't mean something is wrong when it doesn't happen. Some months just aren't THE month, and while everyone assumes it was something they did or didn't do, the fact is, it's just sometimes not the month and something was wrong with the sperm or the egg or the way they combine or they just didn't happen to find each other in time.

So, given all that I think your best bet is NOT SMEP since hubby will not be able to manage it, but good old e4d plus one at pos OPK. It's good chances of conception because you're always in with 2 attempts in fertile window and pos OPK is usually a good shot of conception, it's easier for hubbies to manage since most of the attempts are further apart, so he wont exhaust himself doing EOD during times in the cycle when it doesn't even count, and will hopefully be able to get in with 2 attempts when it does count. And because you start this before you think you can conceive and keep going after ovulation you are also covered in case of early or late ovulation.

It is totally fine to take a month off Clomid now. We have a lot of people who take a month off and get pregnant in that month off (with girls!) It may just be that you need a break and this will help you conceive. I also want you eating a serving of full fat dairy every day, 4-6 eggs a week, and a serving of salmon if you like it and red meat if you don't, every week. We need to be sure you have enough raw materials to make estrogen.

[jenn1112]

You can't damage your body in the long term from taking Clomid. While Clomid can lower odds of conception by affecting the lining and your EWCM, all you have to do is stop taking the Clomid and it fixes itself.

NO, every other day does not automatically get you pregnant. In fact I don't even like it for getting people pregnant because it's often enough so DH can sometimes have performance trouble and at the same time it's entirely possible to end up with attempts on O-4 (too early), O-2, and O Day (often too late). This is one attempt! Plus, it takes fully fertile people doing nothing to sway, an average of 3-6 months to fall pregnant. If in the past you have gotten pregnant more quickly, that was just good fortune and not a guarantee that you will always do that and it doesn't mean something is wrong when it doesn't happen. Some months just aren't THE month, and while everyone assumes it was something they did or didn't do, the fact is, it's just sometimes not the month and something was wrong with the sperm or the egg or the way they combine or they just didn't happen to find each other in time.

So, given all that I think your best bet is NOT SMEP since hubby will not be able to manage it, but good old e4d plus one at pos OPK. It's good chances of conception because you're always in with 2 attempts in fertile window and pos OPK is usually a good shot of conception, it's easier for hubbies to manage since most of the attempts are further apart, so he wont exhaust himself doing EOD during times in the cycle when it doesn't even count, and will hopefully be able to get in with 2 attempts when it does count. And because you start this before you think you can conceive and keep going after ovulation you are also covered in case of early or late ovulation.

It is totally fine to take a month off Clomid now. We have a lot of people who take a month off and get pregnant in that month off (with girls!) It may just be that you need a break and this will help you conceive. I also want you eating a serving of full fat dairy every day, 4-6 eggs a week, and a serving of salmon if you like it and red meat if you don't, every week. We need to be sure you have enough raw materials to make estrogen.

Thank you so much! I think my problem in the past with E4d plus +opk was that my opks never go fully positive and clear blue only did flashing highs. That’s why I ended up with every other day, I kept thinking it was maybe positive (then when it was actually pretty close to positive, hubby couldn’t preform :/ so we did it the next morning)
Any opks you recommend on clomid?

I may get her to prescribe one more cycle of clomid, if she will, and maybe either take a break or use it one more cycle then go without. Do I start E4d the last pill of clomid day 7 or last day of period?

Should I give up fiber with my 2 meals? Or go to one a day?

Get my hubby to take OLE again?

I’ll add in Greek yogurt and eggs this time (our eggs are organic with added omegas....is that okay?)

Oh and should I add pressed, or the expectorant if I do clomid again? I’ve had little to no CM


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[atomic sagebrush]

All right, in that case then please just make your best guess and in the week where you think "THIS IS IT!" have another attempt sometime between the e4d attempts. Don't bother with the OPK if they're not working for you, but if you're seeing signs and symptoms of O being close, keep going with e4d and then have one more attempt during the two e4d attempts. And then if it happens the next e4d period that you are still not sure if you're going to ovulate, then have another attempt again. There is no magic to the pattern so please don't get hung up on it, the entire point is that you are in with two attempts instead of just one in the fertile window and are leaving it somewhat up to luck so don't get too hung up on a particualr set of days or pattern.

When using Clomid start e4d the last day of Clomid (or day after) but if not on Clomid start the last day of period

Yes ditch fiber

Hubby can take OLE if you want him to.

:agree: yes eat yogurt and eggs! No worries about the omegas.

I would pick either Preseed OR guaifenesin, not both. Follow your gut instinct...if you feel like you are dry up inside too, then do guaifenesin. If you think this is more an issue of sperm not making it up to cervix, Preseed may be better.

[jenn1112]

All right, in that case then please just make your best guess and in the week where you think "THIS IS IT!" have another attempt sometime between the e4d attempts. Don't bother with the OPK if they're not working for you, but if you're seeing signs and symptoms of O being close, keep going with e4d and then have one more attempt during the two e4d attempts. And then if it happens the next e4d period that you are still not sure if you're going to ovulate, then have another attempt again. There is no magic to the pattern so please don't get hung up on it, the entire point is that you are in with two attempts instead of just one in the fertile window and are leaving it somewhat up to luck so don't get too hung up on a particualr set of days or pattern.

When using Clomid start e4d the last day of Clomid (or day after) but if not on Clomid start the last day of period

Yes ditch fiber

Hubby can take OLE if you want him to.

:agree: yes eat yogurt and eggs! No worries about the omegas.

I would pick either Preseed OR guaifenesin, not both. Follow your gut instinct...if you feel like you are dry up inside too, then do guaifenesin. If you think this is more an issue of sperm not making it up to cervix, Preseed may be better.

Great info, thank you so much. I just got back from OB and she said she’d prescribe me one last round of clomid and then I need to just take a break from it. I asked her about increasing the dosage from 50 to 100 mg and she said I could try that if I wanted. She said she doesn’t normally increase if already ovulating on the lower dose, which I am. Do you think I should try the 100? Or maybe cut it in half for 50? My thought was that maybe 100 would make me ovulate a better egg or release 2 eggs and I’d have a better chance at fertilizing at least 1. My OB thinks it’s stress that’s keeping me from getting pregnant.

Edit:: my doctor just called in 100 mg for me but now I’m worried thinking that much might overstimulate or cause twins? Just wondering if I should stick with 50 mg and cut in half even though that hasn’t worked.
I just read online that taking clomid for too long works like a birth control instead of helping (this will be my 5th this time—-is that too much?) do you know of anyone with success on their 5th round?


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[atomic sagebrush]

You are def. more likely to conceive twins (or more) on 100. It's up to you what you want to do with that. Yes, it's generally frowned upon to up dose for women ovulating on 50 - some docs will do it and say they think it improves odds of conception, others will not and say it cuts odds of conception (by affecting lining and cervical mucus even more negatively). It's one of those things where I'd need a crystal ball to know for sure.

Yes, I know of many people who had success on 5th or even 6th month of Clomid. It's after the 6th month people generally take a break (although of late docs have been doing this after the 3rd or 4th month instead).

I am thinking for you to definitely use guaifenesin this month just to ensure you have some EWCM - thoughts?

[jenn1112]

You are def. more likely to conceive twins (or more) on 100. It's up to you what you want to do with that. Yes, it's generally frowned upon to up dose for women ovulating on 50 - some docs will do it and say they think it improves odds of conception, others will not and say it cuts odds of conception (by affecting lining and cervical mucus even more negatively). It's one of those things where I'd need a crystal ball to know for sure.

Yes, I know of many people who had success on 5th or even 6th month of Clomid. It's after the 6th month people generally take a break (although of late docs have been doing this after the 3rd or 4th month instead).

I am thinking for you to definitely use guaifenesin this month just to ensure you have some EWCM - thoughts?


Okay thank you. I think I’m just going to take 50 mg this month and I’ll also take guaifenesin—-how much and when do I take it? Before each attempt?

Is clomid + guaifenesin more girl friendly than going without clomid and no guaifenesin? I know you can’t tell me for sure but I was just wondering your opinion.

I’m so worried that the clomid is affecting my lining...is there anything to boost the lining? Should I ask for an ultrasound to see how thick it is?
Thanks again for all your help! So sorry for all the questions [emoji4]


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[atomic sagebrush]

Start guaifenesin the day of your last Clomid dose and take up to 1200 mg (by this I mean you do not HAVE to take the full 1200, you can try less)daily through 3 days past ovulation.

Yeah sorry I honestly do not know what is more pink friendly - no Clomid or Clomid + guaifenesin. Just don't have that data.

The stuff you can do to "boost lining" usually does nothing or else sways blue (and you'd have to get it from a doctor anyway). I wouldn't bother with an ultrasound since by the point they can see the lining, it is too late to do anything about it anyway.

Be sure you're eating enough fat - full fat dairy every day, 4-6 eggs a week, 1 serv. salmon if you like it, red meat if you don;t.

[jenn1112]

Start guaifenesin the day of your last Clomid dose and take up to 1200 mg (by this I mean you do not HAVE to take the full 1200, you can try less)daily through 3 days past ovulation.

Yeah sorry I honestly do not know what is more pink friendly - no Clomid or Clomid + guaifenesin. Just don't have that data.

The stuff you can do to "boost lining" usually does nothing or else sways blue (and you'd have to get it from a doctor anyway). I wouldn't bother with an ultrasound since by the point they can see the lining, it is too late to do anything about it anyway.

Be sure you're eating enough fat - full fat dairy every day, 4-6 eggs a week, 1 serv. salmon if you like it, red meat if you don;t.

Thank you. I’m so nervous about take the guaifenesin...do you have women who’ve had girls on clomid +guaifenesin? I know I just need to get pregnant though so that’s what matters. I’m just contemplating guaifenesin vs preseed.
I’ve added in the eggs already and cut fiber.

My OB just emailed and said my progesterone is 25 which is good! But I’ve had 27 before and not been pregnant so I know that’s not a good predictor of pregnancy


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, of course, or I wouldn't recommend it. :)

I think guaifenesin is better at boosting odds of conception since it ups the level of fluids in your entire reproductive tract. It does no good to conceive and then be so dry up inside the tubes that the sperm can't find the egg or the bean can't make it to the uterus

That prog level is good and we know you have ovulated! FX for BFP this month!

[jenn1112]

Yes, of course, or I wouldn't recommend it. :)

I think guaifenesin is better at boosting odds of conception since it ups the level of fluids in your entire reproductive tract. It does no good to conceive and then be so dry up inside the tubes that the sperm can't find the egg or the bean can't make it to the uterus

That prog level is good and we know you have ovulated! FX for BFP this month!

Awesome! Thanks again for all your help!! Seriously don’t know what I’d do without all your support! ❤️


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[jenn1112]

Awesome! Thanks again for all your help!! Seriously don’t know what I’d do without all your support! ❤️


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It was day 28 and I knew I was going to start and Started light spotting yesterday late afternoon. Do I count last nights light spotting as CD 1 or do I count it as today since I woke up to a full flow?

Since I’m doing clomid 3-7 I’m curious when to take...tomorrow or the next day?
I feel like I usually always count any bleeding as cd1 but I googled it and got mixed opinions.

I also got Robitussin extended release 1200 mg capsules so I’ll start taking those on my last clomid pill but I also got preseed. Do you think I should use that too? Or just if I need (which I probably won’t with the robitussin).

Thanks! Jen


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[atomic sagebrush]

My rule of thumb is, if you think it's AF, then it is.

It all depends on if it's spotting in the luteal phase or if it's just a light start to the flow and what is usual for you. If you know you're only on 10 DPO and have 3 days of spotting before a red flow starts, then that's obviously LP spotting. But what you're describing sounds to me like the start of your actual period and it's just starting off lighter, which many people's does. If that light spotting had been in the morning and then you'd started bleeding later in the day, you'd see it more clearly that was really just AF coming and so I'd personally consider that spotting to be CD 1 unless your LP was also significantly shorter than normal this month.

The good news is, it's entirely irrelevant. Whether you count it as yesterday or today it matters not a bit for starting the Clomid. You can start Clomid on CD 2 or CD 4 and it works just as well as CD 3 does. The main concern with CD 1 is for those people who really are having short LP and many days of spotting prior to getting their real flow. Not this situation.

I think it's wiser to use ONLY guaifenesin OR preseed, not both, when swaying pink.

[jenn1112]

My rule of thumb is, if you think it's AF, then it is.

It all depends on if it's spotting in the luteal phase or if it's just a light start to the flow and what is usual for you. If you know you're only on 10 DPO and have 3 days of spotting before a red flow starts, then that's obviously LP spotting. But what you're describing sounds to me like the start of your actual period and it's just starting off lighter, which many people's does. If that light spotting had been in the morning and then you'd started bleeding later in the day, you'd see it more clearly that was really just AF coming and so I'd personally consider that spotting to be CD 1 unless your LP was also significantly shorter than normal this month.

The good news is, it's entirely irrelevant. Whether you count it as yesterday or today it matters not a bit for starting the Clomid. You can start Clomid on CD 2 or CD 4 and it works just as well as CD 3 does. The main concern with CD 1 is for those people who really are having short LP and many days of spotting prior to getting their real flow. Not this situation.

I think it's wiser to use ONLY guaifenesin OR preseed, not both, when swaying pink.

Thanks! I usually never spot before hand, I just have a light day one, heavy day 2 and medium/light day 4-5. Yesterday’s bleeding just started a lighter than normal and I noticed a tiny bit of light blood when wiping around 2 pm. I think it was my day 1 but just lighter than normal. My OB said to count today as day 1 if I was spotting yesterday but I think she got confused by me saying spotting, as it’s not normal for me to spot before a period.
I think I’ll count today as day 2 since you said it doesn’t matter. I have around a 14 day Lp and cycle at 28 days.

Is it bad that my flow was lighter than normal this cd 1? Could that mean my lining is thinner? My flow today is heavy, I’ve already gone through 2 super tampons.

Thanks, I’ll just do guaifenesin this month!!

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[atomic sagebrush]

Everyone asks me this all the time and NO it does not mean your lining is thinner (and even if it was, that does not mean it's too thin to conceive with, which is quite unusual). It's normal for your period to be somewhat different on Clomid and also with swaying.

[jenn1112]

Everyone asks me this all the time and NO it does not mean your lining is thinner (and even if it was, that does not mean it's too thin to conceive with, which is quite unusual). It's normal for your period to be somewhat different on Clomid and also with swaying.

That’s good to know since my period is so so light this month. Day 2 was my only normal flow day and I’m on day 3 and it is just as light as the first day, barely anything. You think this is just from the LE diet and not the clomid? I know you said that it doesn’t mean my lining is thin but it’s worrying me that I’m barely bleeding this month.
What can this mean? I googled it and it freaked me out

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[atomic sagebrush]

I got my daughter in a month following an even lighter period than you're having (and I was NOT on Clomid). People report this to me all the time, worried over it but it has not inhibited their ability to get pregnant. Not only is your flow more than many people have had the month before BFP (myself included so I know this is legit!) but your flow this month tells you nothing about what will happen NEXT month anyway! The lining you are shedding now is last month's and is irrelevant to what is happening next month!

[jenn1112]

I got my daughter in a month following an even lighter period than you're having (and I was NOT on Clomid). People report this to me all the time, worried over it but it has not inhibited their ability to get pregnant. Not only is your flow more than many people have had the month before BFP (myself included so I know this is legit!) but your flow this month tells you nothing about what will happen NEXT month anyway! The lining you are shedding now is last month's and is irrelevant to what is happening next month!

Awesome thank you! This definitely takes away the anxiety and I’ll stay off google! [emoji6]


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[onebigwish]

good chance of conception and we get very good results for pink with Clomid + 2 attempts. :)


Is this really true? I’m a bit worried about number of attempts on clomid because me and DH are very fertile, I’m 28 years old DH 43. I’m taking clomid 25 mg. With DS1 we i think we did also two attempts. Getting pg quickly is also very important because i wanna conceive before the ramadan. Shall i try one attempt first or two?

[atomic sagebrush]

Is this really true? I’m a bit worried about number of attempts on clomid because me and DH are very fertile, I’m 28 years old DH 43. I’m taking clomid 25 mg. With DS1 we i think we did also two attempts. Getting pg quickly is also very important because i wanna conceive before the ramadan. Shall i try one attempt first or two?

Jenn has been trying to conceive for a very long time. Thus my advice I give to her is for HER ONLY and should not be extrapolated to everyone else, certainly not anyone in their first month of trying when they are 28 years old. Most people who go to 2 attempts have been trying for a very long time and have been on diet a long time, and Clomid for at least 2 months.

I strongly urge anyone in their first month or even two of Clomid to stick with one attempt.

[jenn1112]

Jenn has been trying to conceive for a very long time. Thus my advice I give to her is for HER ONLY and should not be extrapolated to everyone else, certainly not anyone in their first month of trying when they are 28 years old. Most people who go to 2 attempts have been trying for a very long time and have been on diet a long time, and Clomid for at least 2 months.

I strongly urge anyone in their first month or even two of Clomid to stick with one attempt.

Hi Atomic! I feel like we had way more than 2 attempts this month and now I’m freaking out a bit [emoji51]. It’s taken so long and this was my last round of clomid, and we had so much on the schedule around my day 14 that we did it a lot early on and then my opks messed up again and I wasn’t sure of ovulation (my clear blue never gives a peak so I just thought it wouldn’t and of course it finally did yesterday). Anyway this is probably hard to follow but I’m wondering if I just did a boy sway with my attempts, adding 1200 mg guaifenesin daily, big O, adding in eggs this month, and less alcohol (maybe 2-3 per week). Ugh I feel bummed just seeing it written down.

Sex on CD8, 9, CD11(AM), 12, CD 13 (got a peak in after lunch) sex was late 12:30AM so technically CD 14.
I got scared and added the attempt last night (CD13 almost CD14) because attempt on day 11 was earlier.
So that would be O-1, O-2, and O-3.

If I do get pregnant is this a high chance of boy? Regretting doing it so much but my husband has been unpredictable with attempts and being able to preform under pressure so I just went with it :/




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[jenn1112]

Hi Atomic! I feel like we had way more than 2 attempts this month and now I’m freaking out a bit [emoji51]. It’s taken so long and this was my last round of clomid, and we had so much on the schedule around my day 14 that we did it a lot early on and then my opks messed up again and I wasn’t sure of ovulation (my clear blue never gives a peak so I just thought it wouldn’t and of course it finally did yesterday). Anyway this is probably hard to follow but I’m wondering if I just did a boy sway with my attempts, adding 1200 mg guaifenesin daily, big O, adding in eggs this month, and less alcohol (maybe 2-3 per week). Ugh I feel bummed just seeing it written down.

Sex on CD8, 9, CD11(AM), 12, CD 13 (got a peak in after lunch) sex was late 12:30AM so technically CD 14.
I got scared and added the attempt last night (CD13 almost CD14) because attempt on day 11 was earlier.
So that would be O-1, O-2, and O-3.

If I do get pregnant is this a high chance of boy? Regretting doing it so much but my husband has been unpredictable with attempts and being able to preform under pressure so I just went with it :/




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I just took another wondfo Opk at 8:30 AM (cd14) and it’s positive again today and I have a lot of EWCM right now so maybe I won’t ovulate till late tonight so hopefully the cd11 attempt won’t count and it will just be 2 attempts? Cd12 and 13?

The guaifenesin worked almost too well...it was the most cm I think I’ve ever had from right after my period and still today day 14. So I didn’t take today


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[atomic sagebrush]

I would have absolutely advised you to have more attempts since it's your last month on Clomid. What you did was fine.

I can't tell you how many attempts you had since we don't really know when you'll ovulate and if anything was left (or if that could still sway blue even if nothing was left over) We just don't have any way to know these things. What I can tell you is that you did the right thing having more attempts. Clomid is the best of the best tactic there is and I would have had you do exactly what you did.

[jenn1112]

I would have absolutely advised you to have more attempts since it's your last month on Clomid. What you did was fine.

I can't tell you how many attempts you had since we don't really know when you'll ovulate and if anything was left (or if that could still sway blue even if nothing was left over) We just don't have any way to know these things. What I can tell you is that you did the right thing having more attempts. Clomid is the best of the best tactic there is and I would have had you do exactly what you did.

Thank you so much! You always make me feel better ❤️ positive my hubby couldn’t go again tonight but should I try for Thursday too then?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Sure absolutely! In fact please pick it up with every 4 days and continue this till you are 100% sure you've ovulated.

[jenn1112]

Sure absolutely! In fact please pick it up with every 4 days and continue this till you are 100% sure you've ovulated.

Hi Atomic, I’m only 3 days past ovulation but I’m already thinking I’m not pregnant again :(
My CM is very thick and sticky and cervix is hard and I know cm is supposed to be more watery and cervix soft if conceived right? My husband couldn’t make an attempt my day of ovulation and the attempt at +opk wasn’t great...I had to oral again [emoji51] to get him going and I’m thinking it killed all the Sperm. Ugh this is killing me not getting pregnant [emoji22] don’t know what is going on with my body.
I made an appt for this next week with a fertility RE doctor. Is there anything I should ask him specifically about. I know my hubby won’t want to pay for ivf but do you think injectable fertility meds with maybe a shot to ovulate would help? Does that still sway girl like clomid?
I do have one more 50 mg thing of clomid (since I didn’t take the 100 mg) but I was thinking of just taking a month off the clomid. Could it be keeping me from getting pregnant? My dr didn’t want to to take the clomid again but I do have one more round of it at the house but I was going to wait in case the fertility dr wanted me to do something different.

E4d even seems stressful for my hubby...early attempts are great but then it’s like too much stresss or something and can’t preform right when I feel it counts. Maybe if next month (should start on May9th) I could just do +opk and day after? Then he’ll be wanting it since I made him hold out.

Thanks for the help! J


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[atomic sagebrush]

There will be no symptoms 3 days past ovulation. It is absolutely normal to have no CM and hard cervix at this part of the cycle and it is too early for pregnancy to be causing any change. The baby is floating free and not even attached to you at this point and so your body would not even know it's pregnant.

PLEASE leave your cervix alone now and forever because there is no information to be gleaned from it and you run the risk of introducing pathogens that can cause uterine infections.

Take a month off Clomid. Yes, over time it can make it harder to get pregnant and so you need a break anyway, plus,you'd need to be off of it for the visit with the RE. We don't know if injectibles also sway (and they won't, either, and will likely argue with you over the whole thing so don't even bother to ask)

Can you not just hold off the first couple attempts? The problem with what you're suggesting is that you're right back in the problem zone again of possibly having attempts too soon or too late and having everything riding on having attempt on the perfect day. If you were able to have sex 3-4 days before you think it will count, then pos OPK 2x, and then again in another 3-4 days then at least you'll be somewhat protected against early or late ovulation.

No, doing a little oral did not prevent conception.

[jenn1112]

There will be no symptoms 3 days past ovulation. It is absolutely normal to have no CM and hard cervix at this part of the cycle and it is too early for pregnancy to be causing any change. The baby is floating free and not even attached to you at this point and so your body would not even know it's pregnant.

PLEASE leave your cervix alone now and forever because there is no information to be gleaned from it and you run the risk of introducing pathogens that can cause uterine infections.

Take a month off Clomid. Yes, over time it can make it harder to get pregnant and so you need a break anyway, plus,you'd need to be off of it for the visit with the RE. We don't know if injectibles also sway (and they won't, either, and will likely argue with you over the whole thing so don't even bother to ask)

Can you not just hold off the first couple attempts? The problem with what you're suggesting is that you're right back in the problem zone again of possibly having attempts too soon or too late and having everything riding on having attempt on the perfect day. If you were able to have sex 3-4 days before you think it will count, then pos OPK 2x, and then again in another 3-4 days then at least you'll be somewhat protected against early or late ovulation.

No, doing a little oral did not prevent conception.

Thank you this is all good to know. Yes, we can do that...so do you mean, E4d starting at day 10, 13, and then also at positive opk? My positive has been on day 13 the last few times so then do the next day also (day14?)


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes exactly that! That would be perfect if DH can stick to that.

[jenn1112]

Yes exactly that! That would be perfect if DH can stick to that.

Yes, we can do that! Thank you! We’ve been starting on day 5 and it’s just ended up being stressful by the end with our busy schedule! [emoji846]


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[jenn1112]

Yes, we can do that! Thank you! We’ve been starting on day 5 and it’s just ended up being stressful by the end with our busy schedule! [emoji846]


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Hi Atomic, another question I’m wondering about. I have really not lost much weight at all since my late miscarriage, even eating the exact same as I was before on LE diet (and losing/maintaining). I’m now 118-119 first thing in the morning. Is this still considered LE diet if I weigh more than I ever have? I’m normally 115 and was probably 112 when I got my girl. I don’t know what to do to lose weight? I’ve literally never had a problem before. I am eating mostly carbs, drinking and not working out but it was the same as before. I guess my hormones from clomid, stress are causing it? I’ve always been super thin within 3-4 months of a full term birth and now my weight is not going anywhere with a birth after 4 months 🤷🏼*♀️ any ideas on how to drop the weight? I feel like my weight will sway boy..especially now going to a fertility doctor and not going on clomid next month. Thanks [emoji847]


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[atomic sagebrush]

What is your height?

[jenn1112]

What is your height?

5’3 almost 5’4

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[atomic sagebrush]

I would have you switch over to the PCOS-type diet if you're concerned about it, but you are already in a good BMI zone and I would not worry a bit about it. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

[jenn1112]

I would have you switch over to the PCOS-type diet if you're concerned about it, but you are already in a good BMI zone and I would not worry a bit about it. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

Hi Atomic! I went to my fertility doctor and he is having me do a Sonohysterogram ultrasound and I will have to take Zithromax before the ultrasound to prevent infection. This will be done sometime between CD 5-10 of my cycle. He also did bloodwork to test my egg quality and hormones etc etc. I will go in for the results in a few weeks and he said he will discuss my options and what he thinks is best success based on my results.
I do plan on trying this month after the sonohysterogram doing E4d plus one at postive opk (this is what you think I should do for my first month off clomid right?)
Will any of this sway one way or another if I do get pregnant? Obviously I’d love to get pregnant my first month off clomid and me able to avoid doing all the expensive fertility stuff! Will the Zithromax do anything to sway since it will be earlier in my cycle?

He didn’t really want to talk about what we’d do till after the results but he did mention injectables or iui or both. Is there one type that you feel sways one way or another? Like injectables + sex on own would be more of a girl sway than and IUI? Thanks so much!


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[atomic sagebrush]

The Zithromax is something you need to take so I would not worry about how it sways. We don't know how sonos sway but we have people get plenty of girls after having them.

Sometimes the first month off Clomid we stick with a stricter pattern (so back to e4d without the additional attempt) but e4d plus one will be better odds of conception.

I do think IUI can sway a little bit blue but we don't have enough info to say how the injectibles work.

[jenn1112]

The Zithromax is something you need to take so I would not worry about how it sways. We don't know how sonos sway but we have people get plenty of girls after having them.

Sometimes the first month off Clomid we stick with a stricter pattern (so back to e4d without the additional attempt) but e4d plus one will be better odds of conception.

I do think IUI can sway a little bit blue but we don't have enough info to say how the injectibles work.

Thanks! I’ll stick with the one attempt E4d!


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[jenn1112]

Thanks! I’ll stick with the one attempt E4d!


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Hi Atomic, my fertility dr emailed and said my vitamin D was low at 26 and wanted me to take 4,000iu vitamin d per day. I’m worried that will sway blue since I’m not on clomid and 26 doesn’t seem too low does it? He said he likes it over 30.

I’ve been googling about injectables if I didn’t get pregnant this cycle...and I was wondering if you had any stats on injectables with intercourse on own? I’d like to avoid Iui as I know it swats boy. I’m afraid my blood test with my egg results is going to come back that my eggs are old and he’s going to suggest injectables as a first step. He mentioned not liking Clomid as he wanted to increase egg production as a fertility doctor and used injectables.
I have a Friend who used the same Dr with injectables + timed intercourse and had B/G twins...she has endometriosis so not sure if that sways or increases twining


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[atomic sagebrush]

I am, of course, not a doctor but from what I have read anything higher than 20 is adequate. But the doctor is telling you that he sees good results with his fertility patients with levels of 30 and up, so it may help you get pregnant faster. What I would have you do is take the Vit. D 2-3 times a week instead of daily and that way if this lower Vit. D is harming your chances somehow, it's kind of a compromise between getting that level up and not doing it daily.

No, too few people have done injectibles and I don't think the data would be of any value (since those with fertility challenges are more likely to get girls anyway I think it would skew the results). I would suspect they do sway pink since Clomid/Femara do but just that I don't have the data to back that up.

I'm sorry I am not getting your question about your friend? The injectibles definitely increase twinning, that's for sure! I can't tell you if she was set for blue or pink based on having endometriosis - we suspect a little bit blue, but we just aren't sure and since many endo sufferers ahve to go onto special diets that lower estrogen levels they may be counteracting that with diet anyway. Just not something we have any real data about.

[jenn1112]

I am, of course, not a doctor but from what I have read anything higher than 20 is adequate. But the doctor is telling you that he sees good results with his fertility patients with levels of 30 and up, so it may help you get pregnant faster. What I would have you do is take the Vit. D 2-3 times a week instead of daily and that way if this lower Vit. D is harming your chances somehow, it's kind of a compromise between getting that level up and not doing it daily.

No, too few people have done injectibles and I don't think the data would be of any value (since those with fertility challenges are more likely to get girls anyway I think it would skew the results). I would suspect they do sway pink since Clomid/Femara do but just that I don't have the data to back that up.

I'm sorry I am not getting your question about your friend? The injectibles definitely increase twinning, that's for sure! I can't tell you if she was set for blue or pink based on having endometriosis - we suspect a little bit blue, but we just aren't sure and since many endo sufferers ahve to go onto special diets that lower estrogen levels they may be counteracting that with diet anyway. Just not something we have any real data about.

Thank you! You cleared it all up for me!


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[jenn1112]

Thank you! You cleared it all up for me!


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Hi Atomic! I’m 3 days late so I took a pregnancy test and it was positive! I don’t want to get my hopes up until I go in for blood work though.
We had attempts, o-5, o-3, o-2, o-1 so probably 3 attempts...with big O and on guaifenesin. Does this sound more blue to you? I just wanted an honest opinion if you think I have more of a chance for boy?

At this point, I’m obviously just so happy but be pregnant and want a healthy baby!

Thanks again for all your help!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Oh that's great news! Hugest congrats and FXFXFX for good news soon.

number of attempts is just one thing out of many that may sway. I think you did your best and we did what needed to happen to get pregnant this month! People do still get girls with 3 attempts! Sending you all my pink dust!

[jenn1112]

Oh that's great news! Hugest congrats and FXFXFX for good news soon.

number of attempts is just one thing out of many that may sway. I think you did your best and we did what needed to happen to get pregnant this month! People do still get girls with 3 attempts! Sending you all my pink dust!

Thank you! So does clomid sway more than the 3 attempts? Looking back I actually had o-6, 5, 3, 2, 1 but I know only the 3,2,1 would have counted.

I googled number of attempts and swaying and something you had written came up...in it you said to drop all things including clomid/femara before adding attempts. I thought clomid was the best sway tactic there was? I kept thinking I had to get pregnant on clomid to get a girl since that’s how I conceived my last on clomid. Ugh I’m going to drive myself crazy with this haha


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[atomic sagebrush]

I can't tell you that. It is beyond my ability to know.

I need a link to that. It may be very old (before we knew how good Clomid was) and it may be a typo or it may be something specific to a certain person. I now have people add attempts before dropping Clomid.

[jenn1112]

I can't tell you that. It is beyond my ability to know.

I need a link to that. It may be very old (before we knew how good Clomid was) and it may be a typo or it may be something specific to a certain person. I now have people add attempts before dropping Clomid.

Oh awesome that’s good to know! Yes, it was old...maybe from 2012 so I guess it was dated info. I was only asking because I got confused. Thanks again for your help and happy Mother’s Day!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks so much Jenn! You too.

[jenn1112]

Thanks so much Jenn! You too.

I am 5 days late and 19 dpo and my test lines are not very dark...I assumed it was because they were internet cheapies and wasn’t worried because I took the clear blue that said pregnant. Well today at 19 dpo I took a first aresponse early result and the test line was not darker or really even the same color as the control line [emoji20] I really do not want to get my hopes up and be heartbroken again. I’d rather just be prepared for the worst. What do you think, Should I be worried? I did blood work this morning but won’t get results for a couple days :/




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These are both from today and the second picture was about 3 minutes after I took the test and I took another one just now.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180515/5449aa34b2012cbccfc7267fa8115f42.jpg
Line is still not darker at 20dpo [emoji20]

[jenn1112]

I am 5 days late and 19 dpo and my test lines are not very dark...I assumed it was because they were internet cheapies and wasn’t worried because I took the clear blue that said pregnant. Well today at 19 dpo I took a first aresponse early result and the test line was not darker or really even the same color as the control line [emoji20] I really do not want to get my hopes up and be heartbroken again. I’d rather just be prepared for the worst. What do you think, Should I be worried? I did blood work this morning but won’t get results for a couple days :/




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180514/a23af884741bb700667d3c8f82c0ba5e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180514/5b1325a50636d738d263e199ffb15215.jpg

These are both from today and the second picture was about 3 minutes after I took the test and I took another one just now.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180515/5449aa34b2012cbccfc7267fa8115f42.jpg
Line is still not darker at 20dpo [emoji20]

Dr just emailed and said my beta hcg was 376! So I’m assuming that’s okay...I googled and it seemed average to low depending on what I read. I was 19 dpo when I did test and I know we didn’t conceive later in cycle because the last time we had sex was cd 13.
Dr said 376 was normal for early pregnancy


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[atomic sagebrush]

While you never want to see a very dark line that suddenly gets super light, it is absolutely fine and normal for the lines to both stop getting darker or to dance back and forth from a little darker to a little lighter.

Those tests are all beautiful positives and I would not worry about testing any more unless you have a reason to believe something is amiss.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes it's normal but of course it's the doubling that matters and so if they have you back in and it's doubling appropriately then that is the most important thing.

[jenn1112]

Yes it's normal but of course it's the doubling that matters and so if they have you back in and it's doubling appropriately then that is the most important thing.

Okay, thanks. She has told me when I go back again for almore blood work but I’m assuming in a few days. I was so worried about ecoptic because 376 seems low to me. I know it’s “normal” but do you see good outcomes this low?

I also read that low hcg means more likely a boy but I know that’s obviously not all the time but the majority? I’ve never had my beats tested before so I don’t know what mine were with my boys vs my girl.


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[atomic sagebrush]

That's not low at all. It's normal for this stage of pregnancy.

No, it's not the majority, it's an average. It's like height - you could have a tall woman or a short man and even though overall tallness is associated with men and shortness is associated with women, you can't look at a person's height in isolation and know anything about the gender they are. And MOST people (most pregnancies) fall right smack dab in the middle (that is where the majority lies - in the middle and not on either extreme!)

[jenn1112]

That's not low at all. It's normal for this stage of pregnancy.

No, it's not the majority, it's an average. It's like height - you could have a tall woman or a short man and even though overall tallness is associated with men and shortness is associated with women, you can't look at a person's height in isolation and know anything about the gender they are. And MOST people (most pregnancies) fall right smack dab in the middle (that is where the majority lies - in the middle and not on either extreme!)

Thank you! You always make me feel better :)


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[jenn1112]

Thank you! You always make me feel better :)


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Dr just said my progesterone was 54 at 19 dpo. She said that was high and good and that she’s more concerned with progesterone than my betas. Do boys or girls have higher progesterone early in pregnancy too or is that just hcg levels?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Dr just said my progesterone was 54 at 19 dpo. She said that was high and good and that she’s more concerned with progesterone than my betas. Do boys or girls have higher progesterone early in pregnancy too or is that just hcg levels?


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Some people say that (much less evidence than the HCG idea) but the same rule applies. Even IF it's a thing, it's an AVERAGE. That means most pregnancies are in the middle. Just like with height and weight. If you had a person who was 5 ft. 8 and weighed 160 lbs you could not tell their gender even with knowing both their height and weight. And you couldn't even tell if they were 5-4 and 120 lbs or 6 feet and 200 lbs. They could still be a male or a female. These things are interesting but they are not worth thinking about because it really tells you no reliable data about the gender of your baby.

[jenn1112]

Some people say that (much less evidence than the HCG idea) but the same rule applies. Even IF it's a thing, it's an AVERAGE. That means most pregnancies are in the middle. Just like with height and weight. If you had a person who was 5 ft. 8 and weighed 160 lbs you could not tell their gender even with knowing both their height and weight. And you couldn't even tell if they were 5-4 and 120 lbs or 6 feet and 200 lbs. They could still be a male or a female. These things are interesting but they are not worth thinking about because it really tells you no reliable data about the gender of your baby.

Okay, that makes sense, thank you! My OB said it was high and said I wonder if there is more than one in there? I think my hcg is too low to be twins though...I was 4 w 4 d with only 367 hcg and only the progesterone was high.


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[atomic sagebrush]

I think you need to stop worrying about these numbers which really don't tell you anything. I can't tell you if your pregnancy will work out, I sure hope that it does, and nor can I tell you if you're having a girl, although I sure hope that you are. I just feel like you are torturing yourself for no reason.

I have seen gobs of single pregnancy with high HCG levels and twin pregnancies with really normal HCG numbers. I looked up the Betabase for the lowest number of twin pregnancies HCG at the same stage you're at and it was 30. That means that there are twin pregnancies out there that worked out, that had HCG of 30 on the day you got 367!! And for a single pregnancy the lowest number was 14. Yes, there is on average higher HCG in twin pregnancies but these numbers are just not that informative.

The only thing that matters is that your HCG numbers double and your prog is high. That is all we can know for right now. Hang onto that because that is good news! :)

[jenn1112]

I think you need to stop worrying about these numbers which really don't tell you anything. I can't tell you if your pregnancy will work out, I sure hope that it does, and nor can I tell you if you're having a girl, although I sure hope that you are. I just feel like you are torturing yourself for no reason.

I have seen gobs of single pregnancy with high HCG levels and twin pregnancies with really normal HCG numbers. I looked up the Betabase for the lowest number of twin pregnancies HCG at the same stage you're at and it was 30. That means that there are twin pregnancies out there that worked out, that had HCG of 30 on the day you got 367!! And for a single pregnancy the lowest number was 14. Yes, there is on average higher HCG in twin pregnancies but these numbers are just not that informative.

The only thing that matters is that your HCG numbers double and your prog is high. That is all we can know for right now. Hang onto that because that is good news! :)

Thank you! I know I need to chill haha. I tend to over analyze everything 🤪


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[atomic sagebrush]

I know it's so hard though. Hugest ((((Hugs)))), we are all hoping and praying for a happy healthy baby girl for you!

[jenn1112]

I know it's so hard though. Hugest ((((Hugs)))), we are all hoping and praying for a happy healthy baby girl for you!


Hi Atomic! I went a week ago for an ultrasound at 5w6d, baby measured 6 but no heartbeat[emoji20] Dr said it was so early and my numbers look good so not to worry. I’m going back Wednesday for another to see if I can see a heartbeat, I’ll be 6w6d/7 w. I should see one by then right?

Also, and i know you don’t believe in it but Ramzi has been correct for all my 4 kids....3 boys were far to the left and my only girl was on the right side of ultrasound. All my friends and mine have been correct so I feel like there has to be something to this.

This new baby was far to the right on the ultrasound and I just felt it was a boy right when I saw that.

Have you ever seen an early 6 w transvaginal ultrasound on the left side of screen and still be a girl? Thank you!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Jenn, if I had seen Ramzi work, then I would believe in it. So yes, I have seen Ramzi not work for many people.

I'm sorry but I am exceedingly confused by what you are writing. Ramzi is BOY on right, GIRL on left. So if your boys were all on the left, then right then and there, Ramzi is debunked for you. And I"m not understanding how if this baby is on the right, that means it is going to be a boy too?? And then later on you say "have I ever seen a girl on the left with Ramzi" but you said your baby was on the right? I"m just not following what you're asking me here.