Sperm-spinning and sway TTC girl

[Yarmon]

Hi,

After 3 boys with 1 basic and 1 serious sway and now 3 failed gender selection IVFs I am thinking about one last attempt with local sperm sorting + clomid.

I am 41 and likely success is very low. I want to do a gently sway so as not to reduce my chances of conceiving. To be honest I am feeling very down and researching again is overwhelming for me. I would need to sway in the next month or so as my fertility is declining rapidly. I would love some direction and support.

Many thanks

[MrsEnglish]

Hi!

I am a newbie to swaying, but what I believe I read is that there is no proof that sperm spinning works at all. The only "studies" showing it sways we're done by people selling spinning products, and no independent studies have reproduced those results. Sounds not worth it.

If you use Clomid (I did!), start with 50 mg, because larger doses have worse side effects. Also don't use Clomid for more than 4-6 months in a row because it's cumulative effects hurt fertility and can make your lining so thin that you can't get pregnant.

Hope I gave you correct information, I'm not positive about the spinning, that's just what I think I remember.

Good luck!

[Blushpinkbabyxx]

If you can do it, I highly recommend getting a custom plan and coaching from Atomic. I’m currently waiting for my plan to be completed so I haven’t been able to dive into it or personally work with her yet, but from what I’ve seen Atomic is a wealth of knowledge and a huge support during your sway. The personalized plan is the way to go.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi! I replied in your other thread but copied it here for you.

The unfortunate truth about swaying is that other than diet and exercise, there IS no pink sway that doesn't involve reducing chances of conceiving. Since your odds of conception with IUI+spinning is already sooo low, we have to be very cautious not to have you then take a bunch of herbs (or have hubby do so, either) or aspirin or antihistamine or try for douching, timing, frequency. None of those things work and will really cut odds of conception hugely.

Now, I know this isn't what you want to hear but the sperm spinning doesn't really work. When scientists tested it, they found the same number of X and Y sperm even after the spinning, and Dr. Ericsson, the founder of the spinning method, has admitted this. He claims that the spun sperm go on to make different numbers of XX and XY but this has never been established by independent researchers.

The only method that really did work to alter numbers of X and Y sperm was Microsort and even that didn't work...very very few people conceived while doing it, and of those handful, some still got opposites. I know a woman who got a boy with a 92% X sperm sort!! Plus, Clomid, while it is a great pink sway (and it's very likely that the only reason why spinning appears to do anything is because it's done with Clomid) is not going to be best for women over 38 or so because it causes FSH to skyrocket, which is bad for egg quality. Is there any way to do the spinning with Femara, if you end up deciding to do it?

So to focus on what you CAN do, I'd suggest you do atomic fertility diet here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/1865-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-1-blood-sugar-issues.html?1865-Swaying-under-special-circumstances-Part-1-Blood-sugar-issues= and exercise cardio 60 minutes a day, 4 or more days a week.

Have hubby do regular release every 2-4 days. This will make a good number of healthy sperm to better enable you to get pregnant with the spinning+IUI. You can also give him olive leaf extract 500 mg a day started right away and continued till BFP at which point he should gradually wean off.

That's it. That is all you should do. No herbs, jellies, douches, abstains or daily releases, no timing schemes (and if your clinic suggests "hey let's do the IUI 3 days before O" then RUN as fast as you can in the opposite direction because they do not have your best interests at heart). Don't do ANYTHING physical for DH like hot bath, jogging/biking, tighty whiteys that cut odds of conception.

[Yarmon]

Thank you so much for this!
At the moment DH is so exhausted by everything he just wants to try naturally. I am not sure how I feel about that. It sounds like IUI is not going to increase X in any case...
Can I ask why not IUI 3 days before?
If I decide to sway naturally then do you suggest exactly the same as you wrote for IUI?
Many thanks

[atomic sagebrush]

Because IUI 3 days before ovulation has literally ZERO chances of conception. The sperm is washed and this causes it to live much less time. So it would all be dead before the egg showed up. THere are disreputable clinics that claim to do IUI in line with Shettles timing and they are scammers because they know you have no chance of conceiving that way.

And yes, I'd have you do exactly what I recommend for the IUI because at 41, time is not on your side and you need to avoid everything that doesn't work but cut odds of conception, and focus only on the things that do work.

[Yarmon]

Thank you so much!

So Clomid is DEFINATELY out for me?
Does Femara not sway boy?

So basically for me it's diet and exercise? Nothing else? Do I need to think about PH or ions or any of the other stuff?

The diet link you gave me is for hypoglycemia - is that what you meant to show me?

DH should release no more than every other day and no less than every 4 days? (He usually releases most days) And we should BD as often as we want or is there a plan to it?

What is olive leaf extract for? How about things like Wellman conception? Liquorice root? Cranberry? Anti oxidents (eg C, E)? L-Arginine for DH?

DH's sperm is apparently pretty good according to the tests. My egg quality I have been told is very low these days.

I was taking the following:
Vitamins D, E and C
Folate
Prenatal conception
Evening Primrose
Iron
Ubiquinol
Omega 3
NAC
Magnesium
Calcium Citrate
Cranberry
Should I continue any of them?

Thank you so much

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok this is a bit longer than I anticipated, can someone bump this for me for tomorrow?? I just sat down for a sec to drink a cup of coffee and do a couple short posts.

[atomic sagebrush]

And yes that's the right diet, it's better for egg qualtiy as well.

[Yarmon]

Bump :)

[Yarmon]

Bump :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks for bump!

I would not take Clomid if I were you. Age + poor egg quality means that Clomid will raise your FSH very high and basically cook your eggs. Femara does NOT sway boy and was proven in a study and our results to sway pink (possibly even more than Clomid, without any of the negative effects for fertility). I strongly recommend Femara for you.

Diet, exercise, number of attempts. Those are the only things that work! (plus Femara if you can get it). All the other stuff like pH and ions is garbage - they do nothing and trying to include them really cuts odds of conception which we cannot afford here.

DH can't release every day because it cuts sperm count too far. We need you to be in with a viable attempt every month that passes by, and that means he needs to release no more/less than every 2-4 days for optimal sperm health and numbers. This is ESPECIALLY true if you proceed with the IUI. If he released daily it could cut odds of conception to nil.

If you TTC naturally I would have you guys start off with every 4 day method. This is having unprotected sex every 4 days (in a Monday/Thursday pattern, not those days per se but that many days apart) starting after your period ends and going through till you are 100% sure you've ovulated, even if that means going on till your next period begins. This guards against early or late ovulation and works out to be one attempt in the fertile window without having to think about it too much.

Olive leaf has been claimed to lead to more XX conceived. I am not certain I believe it works, but it's the only sperm safe supplement for swaying pink.

NO licorice root, cranberry - they don't work and really cut odds of conception hugely. Wellman conception, l-arg and antioxidants should be avoided because they may sway blue. The BEST thing he can do for his sperm health is do that regular release, anyway.

I want you to wean off the Vit. E, D, C, the prenatal (You should NOT be taking excess Vit. E and C with a prenatal, and possibly not Vit. D either depending on the dose, so PLEASE do not restart the extra Vit. E and C once you get pregnant, this could harm your baby! just take prenatal when pregnant) WEan off evening primrose oil.

Are you anemic? Most people do not need extra iron in addition to the prenatal. If you fill me in on the amount of iron/Vit. D in the prenatal and then in the iron and Vit. D supplements I can better advise you. Taking too much is worse than not enough and can cause you serious harm.

Cranberry is harmful, doesn't work, and may cause or contribute to miscarriage

Omega 3 may sway blue, if you feel you need it, please reduce to 2-3 days per week.

NAC - do you have PCOS? You can take it if you want, at your discretion. Just be sure when you come off it you wean off it gradually by spacing doses further and further out till down to one per week, then you can drop.

calcium and magnesium are at your discretion. Personally I got boys taking them and gave them up to get my girl, the best study ever done on maternal preconception diet and gender conceived showed women with the highest intakes of cal-mag had more boys, not girls, and the science claiming to support the concept is super sketchy but I know some can't give up the idea. Just be sure you wean off them and DO NOT take extra Vit. D with them.

Ubiquinol is fine, continue at present dose, wean off gradually at BFP

Folate is fine, I'd have you at 2000.

I think I covered everything! let me know if I missed anything.

[Yarmon]

This is so helpful. Thank you so much!
A few clarifications...
How much and when would I take Femara?
How does number of attempts sway?
So are you saying I should only take folate and ubiquinol? Prenatal too? Does that sway?
DH despite his decent sperm should only take olive leaf? How much and how often?
I am slightly anemic so I was taking one 'spatone' a day
Is there a link to anything else about diet? Finding it hard to get my head around it.
Also, Do you believe in the babydust method?
Thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

You need to get the Femara first and they will prescribe a dose and set of days. If you're taking it on your own then hit me up for directions at that time, most people take 2.5 mg Femara CD 3-7.

We don't know how number of attempts sway, only that in our results, we saw it get better results than virtually all other tactics (and we didn't even KNOW number of attempts swayed at that point!) At that time we were having people do lots of other things like ph, timing, frequency, herbs, all of which cut odds of conception by a lot, and then add attempts to get pregnant faster. We got terrible results that way (with many attempts) When we saw the trend we switched over to everyone having one attempt and dropping other things to get pregnant, and our results went up immediately and stayed up ever since that time.

I want you only on folate and ubiquinol. Wean off everything else. If you can't stand giving up the prenatal then reduce to 2-3 days a week. Nutrients sway blue so we need to reduce nutrient intake, and that's why we are having you come off those other nutrient supplements.

None of the supplements for swaying pink that men take have worked. So, since they are also harmful to sperm health, it makes no sense for your husband to take them. He will be lowering your chances of conceiving for things that do nothing. Olive leaf dose is 500 mg a day starting right away and going thru BFP at which point you can have him gradually wean off.

Go ahead and continue the Spatone either daily if you need it that often or 3x a week maintenance dose

Please tell me what you're having trouble understanding about the diet. I have a bajillion other things on diet but I want to be sure I"m actually answering your question rather than just inundating you with info.

No, I don't believe in the Babydust method. They got their "one attempt" idea from us and then added timing to it, but timing has been completely debunked by all dependable sources and it really cuts odds of conception. I regularly get people in here who have been trying to conceive using Babydust for a whole year without any success.

[Yarmon]

This is so helpful - thank you!!!

So do you recommend only dtd once per cycle making sure with OPK it is around ovulation?

As for diet maybe I will ask specific questions for my usual staple foods... I think I read too many different things from different places and got confused...

I usually eat a lot of:
cheese
bread (white, brown and spelt)
oatmeal
nuts
dried fruit
almond milk
yogurt
eggs
fish
vegetables
90% dark chocolate
green/herbal teas
white/brown pasta
brown/red rice
pizza
tofu
legumes/pulses

Are these all ok?

What are your thoughts about:
tomatoes
potatoes
milk products
aspartame
missing breakfast
sugar
salt
oil (I got confused about which oils - olive oil no? canola yes? butter yes?)

What about DH - should I modify his diet? If so for how long?

Thank you so much!

[atomic sagebrush]

Agh sorry again, can you bump this for me? I thought it was shorter LOL

[Yarmon]

Bump :)

[Yarmon]

Bump :)

[atomic sagebrush]

No, not only once per cycle (I would have the Great Husband Rebellion of 2018 on my hands if we did that LOL) but just once in the fertile window without protection. You can BD when you aren't fertile, or with protection at any time, but when it comes time to do the babymaking you have only one attempt. We like to stick this attempt at positive OPK because it's an easy way of having the one attempt at a point in time that is good chances of conception.

All foods are allowed on LE Diet within limits. Some foods are better than others, and some people like to eliminate some foods to try and blend various sway diets, but everything is allowed. Every single thing you list is ok to eat within the limits of the diet. Limits first and foremost.

Oatmeal, most people choose to avoid or limit because it has a compound in it that may raise testosterone - but a)it's really not concentrated enough to do that, esp. if you're only having it 1-2 days a week and b) we don't even know that testosterone sways. Up to you.

I think given your age you'll do best focusing on brown grains only and keeping grains to somewhat of a dull roar. Up protein and fat to 50-60 g each and get the rest of your calories from fruits, veg (including potatoes), whole grains (inc. brown rice), nuts, and legumes/pulses/soy (these can be quite carby tho). Limit sugar or eliminate it totally (this includes dried fruit which has sooo much sugar that you may as well be eating candy.

I want you eating full fat dairy ONLY and 4-6 eggs a week. NO SKIM DAIRY at all whatsoever.

Almond milk I think you should avoid due to its carbiness.

Any herb tea is fine no more than 2x a week for any particular kind.

The "forbidden" foods for pink - things like tomato, potato - are FINE for LE Diet. The only reason they were ever said to sway blue was because they have potassium in them, and on mineral balancing diets in which people ingest massive quantities of dairy foods to increase calcium, those have tons of potassium so in order to both eat a lot of dairy whilst limiting potassium, they had to cut out all other foods. Since on LE Diet we do not do all that dairy, we actually have a difficult time getting enough potassium and so I suggest everyone include potassium rich foods. WE need 2500-3500 mg potassium a day on ALL sway diets because you risk death if you don't get enough. (really!)

Milk products are fine within limits, please use full fat dairy ONLY and avoid skim and part skim.

Things like pizza are fine! You have to undo the way of thinking about swaying where there are forbidden food groups because that approach doesn't work and makes it impossible to stick with the diet. We all eat pizza! Vegetarian pizza is a great pink sway food. When I was swaying I'd get vegetarian frozen pizzas and since the serving size was right there on the box, I could have a piece for breakfast and lunch and be happy and full of pizza while still being totally in LE Diet limits. :)

Aspartame - 2-3 servings a day, max. I do not believe it helps sways at all and I got my girl without it after getting my 4th boy while using it

Skipping breakfast may help a bit. The most important thing, though, is not to be eating every 15-30 minutes all day every day and instead to focus on 2-3 or even 4 meals (2-3 is better, though) to enable your blood sugar to drop between meals.

Sugar I want you to skip because of egg quality given your age

Salt - while I do still allow people to limit sodium if they so choose, virtually all of us dropped that limit. It makes no biological sense and the science that supposedly supports the notion is nonsensical. I got my girl with my husband and I eating tons of sodium while I was limiting it when we got our 4th boy.

VEgetable based oils are best, if you do eat some butter now and then it's not the end of the world.

I think I covered everything, let me know if I missed something.

[Yarmon]

That's so helpful - thank you!
Just a few clarifications...

What do you mean by 'LE diet limits'?

Do you think Aspartame will decrease my fertility? (I was thinking each day either a spoonful in yogurt /herbal tea or a Sprite zero)

Is yogurt ok?
How about olive oil, fish (white, salmon, tuna), 90% dark chocolate (I eat that a lot) and tofu?

Should I get DH to do any of this? (If so, ongoing all month, every month?)

So I was thinking my sway is basically:

My diet - varied healthy diet, skip breakfast, 2-3 meals per day, limit/eliminate sugar, whole grains, full fat, vegetable oils, plenty of protein and fruit/ veg, aspartame once a day, avoid almond milk/oatmeal, limit herbal tea

Me – Folate (I have Soglar Metafolin 400mcg and it says to take 1 tablet...what do you think?), Superherb Ubiquinol (I have 50mg... I thought to take 300mg a day?)
(Plus stop taking prenatal, Vit c/d/e, Omega 3 and Evening Primrose oil. Decrease spatone iron)

DH – Solgar Olive leaf (It says standardized Olive Extract (leaf) (Oleuropein 14 mg [6%]) 225 mg and Raw Olive Powder (leaf) 225 mg and can take 1-3 tablets a day - how many should he take?)

DH Release every 2-4 days (alone or withdrawal method)
DTD – once in fertile window (using OPK)

Cardio Exercise 3x60 min per week (plus walking to work etc)

Does that look ok for a girl sway?

Thank you!!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

All foods are allowed within LE Diet limits. I'm not going to go through every food you can think of and tell you it's ok - I went over the important things already and if you read my answer again you'll see I really did give you an answer on things like olive oil (vegetable based fats are best, this includes olive oil) chocolate (it has sugar and since it's not necessary for survival, prob. best avoided) etc. Yogurt is fine, even though generally it does have some sugar the benefits outweigh the sugar in it. These kind of questions would drown me if everyone asked "is this food ok? is this food ok?" so if we could let that go now I'd really appreciate it.

Everyone trying to conceive needs to limit fish to 2x a week max due to risks of mercury. This has nothing to do with swaying, this is for safety, and again, all foods are fine in limits. Tofu is fine, again I think it best for reasons of safety to keep it at 2-3 times per week since higher intake soy has been tentatively linked to birth defects and we dont' know how long the effects might last.

I think you will do best on LE Diet with limits at 1500-1800 cals a day, 50-60 g protein and fat. You don't count protein and fat in fruits and veg, and low carb veg are free and unlimited.

I know the folate say to take just one but that is advice for the general population and not for people who are swaying and may have lower egg quality. Many people trying to conceive take more than that. Most everyone on here takes 1200, 1600, or 2000 mcg a day by taking those smaller dose folates several times across the day for best absorption.

I would start off with one of the olive leafs a day and if he tolerates them ok (no headaches, bleeding or bruising, upset stomach) you can increase that up to 2.

DH does not need to follow the full diet but if he were to cut back on red meat, all meat, even go vegetarian or vegan that may help.

[Yarmon]

Thank you so much for all your time!
I was wondering if you think I should take vitex?
Also as DH's sperm quality is good maybe he should take liquorice root or cranberry and me consider lowering PH? (Last time I swayed both our PHs were very high)

[atomic sagebrush]

No, you must not take vitex or any other herb for swaying. You can't take the chance of cutting your fertility and the herbs have not worked anyway.

No, hubby should not take licorice root (it has gotten terrible results) and neither of you should take cranberry. DH is taking OLE already, yes?? It is cranberry OR OLE, not both, and OLE has gotten much better results. For you, cranberry is not safe, i"ve never recommended it due to the risks and side effects which are major, and additionally when we tracked it in our results we saw that it did absolutely nothing for swaying.

pH probably doesn't work for swaying. It certainly doesn't work in the way that other sites claim and is based on a theory originally from the 1800's that Dr. Shettles revived. Dr. Shettles claimed that X sperm lived a long time and Y sperm swam fast but died quickly, and he was 100% wrong about that and X and Y sperm have been proven to live the same time and swim the same speed.

You can read about Dr. Shettles' mistake here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

And read the scientific case against pH here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/11684-ph-pickle.html

I have to stress to you again that time is not on our side here. We have to do the things that actually work (diet, exercise, one attempt, Femara, possibly OLE for DH) and let go of all the stuff that has been debunked (including herbs and pH) Because if you can't get pregnant you have ZERO chance of a DD! When I started off swaying I was with a group of ladies in their late 30's to early 40's (as was I) and some of them were doing all this stuff for swaying. Many of them ended up not getting pregnant at all and still do not have a baby to this very day. It is really a thing that has actually happened to people and it just doens't make any sense to me to cling to these ideas that science and our experiences have shown to be completely ineffective, all of which cut odds of conception hugely. :)

[Yarmon]

I totally appreciate everything you are saying. It just doesn't feel that much for me to do. Really and truly it is pretty much the same lifestyle for me (minus breakfast, almond milk and oatmeal). The only add is the aspartame, one attempt at dtd and the Femara (and for DH to cut red meat and add OLE). Let's hope that's enough to do the trick! I am not wasting time. I just got my period today and will begin right away (I tried last month but ended up dtd too early I think). Just checking - any reason not to orgasm or jump and dump and what do you think about taking melatonin? Also what is the femara actually for? Does it sway?
Thanks!

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey, the Femara is the biggest thing of all! YES it sways, and it's the best of the best tactic there is.

I know it feels like "we're barely doing anything" but remember most of the people walking around out there on the earth aren't doing 9 zillion cray things but yet get a boy and a girl without even thinking about it. it's supposed to be easy, if it weren't there would not be so many pigeon pairs in the world.

The old school sway gurus believed female orgasm swayed blue. We avoid them just because, but I doubt they are very strong sway tactics. Do not do jump and dump. It will cut odds of conception too far. I'd have you lay flat 10-15 minutes. I got my daughter at 41 with female O and without jump and dump so I promise it's possible to get a girl that way.

No melatonin. While it is beneficial for egg qualtiy, it may cause developmental delays when taken during pregnancy and we don't know how long it stays in your system. And you can't just stop taking it since your body needs some melatonin to stay pregnant, and stopping excess melatonin may mess up your body and make less able to sustain a pregnancy. The only time I ever recommend melatonin is when people are doing egg retrieval for freezing eggs and will not be pregnant in the same month their eggs are retrieved.

[Yarmon]

Hi, I was just wondering, are any of my sway tactics just AF-O or are they all through the month?
(I skip breakfast, cut sugar, do exercise, take 800 folate and 600 ubiquinol, aspartame, only one attempt at dtd. DH cut down red meat and takes OLE 2x a day).
Also can you remind me how much and when to take femara? I want to check I am doing it right. (It is the same as letrozole right?)
Thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

Those are all to be done all month long. At BFP you should wean off ubiquinol and have DH wean off OLE. Space doses further and further out till you're down to one per week, then drop them.

Folate you should take all thru the first trimester of pregnancy and then gradually wean off to the amount in your prenatal by spacing doses (this should take about 3-4 weeks). I would have you on 1600 mcg or even 2400 given your age.

2.5 mg Femara on CD 3-7 (5 days total)

[Yarmon]

Thank you! Low blood sugar all month too? (Ie space out meals and no snacking) I am taking progesterone from o-af and it makes me hungry and crave sweet food ����*♀️

[atomic sagebrush]

It's fine to add in an extra meal while on the progesterone but I would NOT go off diet totally or start snacking all day every day.