Girl sway: BD pattern advice

[ManchesterMrs]

Hi all,

This is my sixth cycle ttc a girl. I just wanted some advice on BD.

Months 1-2 - I started off doing 1 attempt and then E4D.

Months 3 - 5 - used Femara and continued E4D.

I realised I was o-ing late with a short luteal so I started taking myoinsotil and vitex and last month my luteal increased to 10 days.

This month I had pos opk on day 16 - earliest ever!
We decided to switch things up and BD every day during fertile window. Now in tww.

I am doing atomic fertility diet. I am now 35 and as next month will be my seventh cycle I just want to up my chances of actually conceiving but still try to sway girl.

I now have a good idea of the signs I get around o so won’t use opks anymore.
What BD pattern should we try? We struggled doing BD every day this month as we have a toddler and a 11 month old!

Should I go back to E4D (Monday / Thursday / Sunday pattern) plus try one attempt on the day I think I would get a pos opk?

TIA xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, you need to go to e4d plus one.

I would not ever have recommended BD daily not only for your sway but also for fertility. BD every day, while it seems like a great way to conceive (and people can of course get pregnant that way) can actually backfire since you start BD daily before O and then by the time the egg shows up, your husband's sperm numbers may be depleted. BD e4d plus one is actually both better for your sway and also for odds of conception.

ARe you doing e4d in the "Mon/Thurs" or "Mon/Fri" pattern?

[ManchesterMrs]

Hi atomic,
Thanks so much for the advice. We had been doing E4D in the Monday / Thursday pattern. I guess I was worried that E4D plus one would potentially lead us to do it three times during the fertile period and sway blue but after six months now of trying I am ready to do anything to at least up my odds of pregnancy. We will do as you suggest.
I had almost five days of pos opks this month weirdly too - even after I confirmed ovulation by temping. Hoping that is a good sign but we’ll see as it could just mean my body took longer to ovulate.
Thanks so much for the advice,
MM x

[atomic sagebrush]

Yep after 6 months it's time to add another attempt. It cannot be 3 attempts because even if the "worst" case scenario of O-3, pos OPK, and O Day the other batches would already have fertilized the egg before the O Day shot could capacitate.

ARe you continuing with e4d after you think you've ovulated? If not, do.

The many days of pos OPK just mean that the hormone took a little longer to clear out than normal. It's no big deal, happens with some regularity. :)

[ManchesterMrs]

Thank you so much atomic! Yes we’ve been doing E4D throughout the whole month. Will add in one further attempt next cycle if not pregnant this month. 7dpo at the moment I think.

[ManchesterMrs]

Just checking - is E4D plus one this? So I would do E4D Mon Thurs pattern and then just add one attempt in the day I get my first pos opk? So if we BD on the Monday and I got a pos opk on the Weds we would BD then plus the Thursday? Ie. Keep to the E4D but just add one atttempt on whatever day I get pos ok?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes exactly. You do the e4d pattern without disruption and then whenever the pos OPK falls you have an extra attempt that day. If you're due for your e4d attempt you still would want to have another attempt either that day or the next morning or night.

[ManchesterMrs]

Thanks atomic! Much appreciated!!

[ManchesterMrs]

So my period just arrived today. I wondered what my extreme bloat was all about! I only had a 9 day luteal this month - it was 10 days last month. Was bummed as I guess I expected it to be 10 days due to continuing with the myo.
Atomic - is there anything I should do about the luteal? I am doing atomic fertility diet. Was thinking of taking b-50 tablets but would that sway blue? Or would I be better trying some progresterone cream? I know you aren’t keen on vitex but I would like to keep taking it as I have only taken it for 25 days and already it seems to be moving ov forward. I would like to give it at least another couple of months as it got me pregnant with my first. Myo got me pregnant worn my second (again, I had a short luteal). Basically, should I be worrying about my 9 day luteal? I think this cycle might have been a bit of a dud anyway with my 5 pos opks etc. The cycle before I got pregnant with my second DS my lp was only 7/8 days so I know it is possible to still conceive. I just am getting a bit impatient now after six full cycles. Would you also advise dropping anything like the coffee / start eating breakfast? I only eat twice a day (Lunch and dinner at 7pm so then I got until midday the next day without food - just two cups of coffee). I got pregnant both times using preseed but am loathe to try that as I feel like it just going to give my another DS. Hmmm. This luteal crap is so annoying. Which I could just ov on the same day each month and have a predictable cycle like lots of women!

[ManchesterMrs]

I have some good quality magnesium and co-q-10 leftover from ttc last time. Would it harm my sway to start taking them as a naturopath online said they can help lengthen lp? I should add that I had my thyroid tested recently as I thought I might be hypo and it came back as 1.03 which if anything is slightly on the hyper side. Does that mean I should maybe add breakfast back in? I am worried that all the stress of my unpredictable and less than ideal cycles is going to make me inadvertently sway blue by doing lots of things to try and improve my fertility! This sucks!

[ManchesterMrs]

Sorry - promise this is my last post atomic!
If I take this product (which I took with my second DS when I also had a short luteal), do you think it would sway blue?
https://www.nutriadvanced.co.uk/megamag-fem-balance-240g.html
It really seemed to balance my hormones last time and I was pregnant within month. I was inadvertently swaying mega blue last time - if I do atomic fertility diet, this supplement and vitex do you think that would be ok?

[atomic sagebrush]

I would prefer you used a myoinositol that did not have the added B6 and stuff.

Let me explain my concerns here.

There are two ways ovulation gets messed up. There is PCOS or tendencies that direction, which is basically a state of too many hormones (that is not totally accurate but is accurate enough for our purposes) You get that happening when you eat a lot of cals, lots of carbs, etc and are maybe a little overweight (not always but often). Lots of unripe eggs form in your ovaries and turn into cysts and ovulation gets delayed and at the same time your LP gets really short. So taking things like vitex and myoinositol which can lower hormones can fix that type of issue.

BUT there is a second reason why O gets delayed. It's really the opposite problem, you have too few hormones going on. This can happen from dieting too strictly, losing too much weight, too much exercise, and some other medical issues which are not very common and most people on this site don't need to worry about. Doing the cure for problem #1 when you have problem #2 will be like throwing gasoline on the fire because you are only going to lower your hormone levels MORE.

It is entirely possible to have had problem #1 in the past and now to have problem #2. So you can have a solution that worked in the past that will be a disaster in the here and now.

I completely get the tendency of wanting to feel liek you are doing SOMETHING to fix the issue. But you have to be sure you're doing the RIGHT thing. I can't even tell you the number of people who start off with a minor problem (or indeed, no problem at all) who then take some herb or vitamin that then really messes up their cycle hugely. It's a vicious cycle because the herb peddlers will then toss more and more herbs at them until their bodies are so screwed up that it takes many months to work itself out. So you have to decide about herbs knowing that they may be actually worse than nothing. The best cure for PCO-tendencies is changing diet and exercise, losing a little weight, and patience. The best cure for hypothalamic amenhorrea (too low hormones) is changing diet, cutting back on exercise, gaining a little weight and also patience.

So, that is what I'm concerned about. I just want to be absolutely certain that we don't make the wrong move and end up making a non-problem into a real problem. I would prefer you tried to see if the diet changes made any difference before tossing in more herbs onto the vitex (because I am not entirely sure you continuing vitex is even the right move to be making). Even if you do, just be sure you get the kind without B6 because B6 really makes cycles bonkers and may sway blue anyway.

[ManchesterMrs]

Hi atomic,

Thank you so so much for your response.

I am keen to hear what you would do in my situation.

I will definitely continue with the atomic fertility diet. The only aspect I hadn’t been doing was chicken every day but I will do this from now on ( I was worried about having too much protein).

I have lost almost 3 stone in the last 7 months and am now 9 months pp. My BMI is around 21.

I don’t think I have PCOS as I have had scans on my ovaries before but I definitely think I have lazy ovaries. However I had a pos opk on day 16 last cycle so I think something in vitex definltely seems to kick start my ovaries. It did this both times when I was trying to get my cycle back post partum as well.

I took MegaMag last time I was ttc at the recommendatiom of a naturopath. MegaMag is said to balance your hormones and includes:

2 scoops (10.2g) typically provide:
Magnesium (bisglycinate)
200mg
Myo-inositol
2000mg
Calcium (bisglycinate)
50mg
Manganese (citrate)
1mg
Vitamin E (alpha tocoherol) (100iu)
67mg
Vitamin B1 (thiamin HCl)
25mg
Vitamin B2 (riboflavin)
20mg
Vitamin B3 (niacinamide)
20mg
Vitamin B5 (calcium pantothenate)
20mg
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxal-5-phosphate)
25mg
Folate (Metafolin®)
100µg
Vitamin C
500mg
as mineral ascorbates:
calcium ascorbate
sodium ascorbate
magnesium ascorbate
potassium ascorbate

Other ingredients:
Maltodextrin
Maltitol
Guar gum
Steviol glycosides
Citrus flavour
Orange flavour
Citric acid

What do you think? If you can tell me that this doesn’t seem like a massively blue product to take then I am minded to try it again as (like I said) it worked for me with my second.

Maybe I try vitex and MegaMag plus atomic fertility diet for another cycle and then reassess?

I am effectively rolling a dice with swaying as we all are so I just want to ensure that I effectively am in the game in the first place. If it doesn’t make a difference this cycle then i’ll Quit both the vitex and MegaMag.

What do you think? Much much appreciated x

[ManchesterMrs]

I also don’t think my short luteal is related too much to diet as I was eating load of high fat and protein last time and this time I am eating far less and still the short luteal phase. Hmmm.

[ManchesterMrs]

Sorry last post atomic. My husband and I have just had a big chat and I think i’m minded to just stop it all.

I will do the atomic fertility diet, I will do E4D plus one and give my cycle a chance to sort itself out on it’s own. If I am still having luteal problems later in the year we can look at it then.

Does that sound lke the best next step? It’s so so scary to me to stop taking anything but I think I need to do it to a ) try to try my body b ) keep my sanity c) not inadvertently sway blue.

I will let you know how it is going in the next couple of months. What do you think?

[atomic sagebrush]

I would not take the Megamag. I had already looked it up and seen the nutrients in it and I would not take it. Not only might it sway blue but may also mess up your cycles more due to the B6 (and inositol if you should not be taking it.) If you must, find a myoinositol that does not have all the added nutrients in it.

Again, you could have had one problem last time (PCO tendencies, which you actually can have even if you've had scans on your ovaries already) and be having a different problem now. You could have had some tendencies towards PCO in the past messing up your cycle, and now it's the opposite problem, so doing the cure for PCOS will not help and will in fact make things worse for all the reasons I spelled out in my above post.

I am sorry but I had forgotten you were only 9 months postpartum. This complicates matters even more because it is 100% normal to have weird cycles for some time after having a baby. It's not uncommon for cycles to be odd even 18 months after having a baby (without breastfeeding!) Your body may not "want" to get pregnant again this quickly and may be pulling out everything in its bag of tricks to prevent that from happening. Delayed O, short LP, "lazy ovulation"...I do want you to be sure you're getting a good intake of cals (no more weight loss) and 50-60 g protein and fat (the chicken is fine if you want to include that, or any good source of protein like eggs or dairy, full fat dairy only please)

Try to remember that women were getting pregnant (and still are in many places around the world) without any of this stuff. We are so conditioned to believe we need these things but we really don't and in many cases (if not virtually all of them) they cause more harm than good and we only end up pregnant not because of them, but in spite of them. So it's totally fine if you want to use them, it's your sway your way, just that I can't sign off on them. :)

[ManchesterMrs]

Thank you so much atomic! That is so so helpful to me both practically and emotionally. I will crack on with the fertility diet and chill out and row back on the vitex and myo and we’ll see what happens. Much appreciated.