Thoughts/questions on my "failed" sway

[Verena]

Hi atomic and everyone else,

I just found out some weeks ago that I am expecting a little boy in December. I'm sure he will be perfect and no "failure" at all! But I'm still thinking about what might have been the point of my sway that made me conceive a boy again. I know swaying will never give us 100% chance of the DG. But I was on LE diet for 9 months (PCOS version although I don't have PCOS), exercised 6 days a week, drank a lot of coffee, took femara and had one attempt. It was even the cycle after a miscarriage. So I think it must have been very bad luck or there must be something else that made my sway not work.

Sometimes I'm still sceptical about femara and regret not having chosen clomid. Atomic do you think it's possible femara sways for people with PCOS but somehow not for those with none? I know you told me many times you are very convinced about femara swaying strongly pink, but maybe that's not true for everyone?

My feeling is that it's most likely that I couldn't have swayed any "better" and that the "problem" is on DH's side. I have noticed before that he produces a lot of semen at least compared to the other men I had sex with (sorry tmi). Is it possible that the volume of his semen is so high that one attempt of him counts for three attempts of the average man?

I don't think I will get the chance to sway again as DH said he doesn't want any discussions about a fourth if he agrees to this third child. So mainly out of curiosity, what would you recommend doing differently if there was a next time?

Thank you atomic and good luck to everyone swaying at the moment!

6c8b58 Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com (http://fertilityfriend.com/home/6c8b58/)

[emoji170] 08/2014 [emoji170] 04/2016

[Throwaway_panther]

There's truly nothing you did wrong or failed at. Swaying is aways just about tipping the odds. It's like if you flipped a coin and got 50/50 heads and tails. Swaying is like bumping those odds to 60/40 or 70/30... but as odds go, you still can land on tails in the 40 and 30. And, like you already said, it's a matter of luck odds. Nothing you did or didn't do.

As for the Femara -- there WAS one study that showed it yielded a looot more girls than boys. Way more than Clomid (it's posted somewhere in the forums). But I remember when I was potentially going to take it (but was swaying boy) I read everywhere and did find way more 50/50 or slightly boy leans on polls on different sites. But none of those sites or that study was part of swaying, which is a whole other variable in the mix. Idk if we really know just how much it sways considering people get both genders on it (I've seen b/g twins conceived on Femara!).

As for DH -- I personally believe DH is always the deciding factor, because he is. Whether we're supposedly attracting a particular sperm to our egg or maybe our uterus is a certain way to seem hospitable to one gender over the other, we don't know. But DH still is the only one with X or Y. You can't make any call on how much sperm is in semen by semen amount produced -- a semen analysis would be needed. I have seen men with crazy high sperm counts and concentrations with 5 boys and seen the same with 2 girls. My DH is borderline MFI and we've (so far) only made healthy girls between natural and IVF. But a boy swayer on here famously got a boy with her husband who was SEVERE pretty much infertile MFI after totally giving up and not even swaying.

So just not ike us, yeah they bring stuff to the table... but it's still just odds :/ And as someone who had 7 natural losses in a row, I can tell you that there are some of us who just seem to fip a coin the same side more than others maybe purely by bad luck.

[atomic sagebrush]

First things first, I'm sorry it didn't go your way. I know it's so so very hard right now and it's absolutely the most normal feeling in the world to want to have a reason or an explanation but truth is, we will never know why you got an opposite. All the second and third guessing in the world won't change that. I have a thread here where I go over lots of potential reasons for sway opposites that you may want to read. https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/18466-when-sways-attack-updated-12-8-17-a.html

It's not "very bad luck". Just garden variety bad luck. No matter how long you're on diet, no matter how much stuff you do, there is still a theoretical upper window on swaying that appears to be at somewhere between 70-80% and that is going to yield opposites 20-30% of the time. It appears to be just how it works. You are thinking of this as somehow you swayed so hard you should have "earned" better than it's possible to sway. But if it's only possible to sway that much (because the entire human race would have died out long ago if it was possible to sway 100% of the time) then even ideally there will be 1/3 to 1/4 of people getting opposites through no "fault" of their own. And this doesn't even go into things like that there may be elements of our bodies/fertility that are set and impossible to change with swaying, yk??

Femara sways for everyone. Most of the people on it don't even have PCOS. It's been shown in a study and in the people on the site who are taking it. It is not a magic bullet (nor is Clomid). The data indicates it sways about 5% on its own without swaying and of course we get about 75% with the medications. That's 25% of people who get opposites with it.

We have had men who have tons of semen and very few sperm (they had sperm analysis done) and barely any semen with huge sperm counts. (They even had an episode of that dumb show Jackass where they all had sperm tests done and the guy with the smallest load had the highest sperm count. What I won't do for you guys in the name of science. :)) Could it have been what DH brought to the table, maybe to some extent, but I really think that the best way to approach sway opposites is acknowledging that a)there are some things that are out of our control and b) in the end it comes down to bad luck.

This is very hard for us boy moms to do and we want...even demand... to know "the reason", but it is all but 100% that there is NO real reason and/or lots of little reasons and we will never know. It was entirely you did everything in your power and the cards didn't go your way. That is a definite possibility, that we can sway only that 70-80% max range and then we have to roll the dice and some of us are not going to get our DG. I wish, so greatly, that I could get you guys 100% but that just does not seem to be a possibility with our knowledge and technology we have (and very likely will never be.)

[atomic sagebrush]

As for the Femara -- there WAS one study that showed it yielded a looot more girls than boys. Way more than Clomid (it's posted somewhere in the forums). But I remember when I was potentially going to take it (but was swaying boy) I read everywhere and did find way more 50/50 or slightly boy leans on polls on different sites. But none of those sites or that study was part of swaying, which is a whole other variable in the mix. Idk if we really know just how much it sways considering people get both genders on it (I've seen b/g twins conceived on Femara!).


Just to riff on this, please keep in mind when you guys see people IRL getting boys on Clomid/Femara, that many people who take fertility medications NEED TO and possibly have PCOS (which sways blue) and/or are doing everything in their power to boost fertility and get pregnant. They're BD a lot, taking supplements, eating really healthy, using Preseed/guaifenesin, even be on supplemental estrogen. These things all sway blue! The studies show about 5% pink sway from the fertility meds which when u see it in the population, still gonna look very much like 50-50. The normal gender ratio is like 105 boys for every 100 girls, so 5% means more like 100 boys for every 100 girls (I think, don't quote me on that, math is not my strong suit LOL) That "75% girls" we seem to get with the medication is with otherwise good pink sways! So just looking around the world at people walking around, you are not going to be able to see whether Femara sways pink or blue, because it's just not possible to do that.

[ksmom]

I'm so sorry. I know the feeling. Atomic and TP said it so well, that it's nothing you did or didn't do, just the dice didn't roll in your favor. You could do that exact same sway again 100 times over and get a girl 80 times and a boy 20 times. Swaying is never a 100% guarantee so there's always a chance of getting an opposite. Like you, I really had high hopes of having a girl after swaying for almost a year but it didn't work out that way. It took a long time but I'm okay with it now. Yes I still have GD, but I no longer feel sad about DS3. He is almost 1.5 now and is just the happiest, sweetest baby. He fit right in from the get go. I know it's so hard to not rehash your sway over and over again in your mind but you had a really great sway, just the dice came up blue this roll. Again, I'm so sorry. I wish we could all get our DG. Shoot me a PM if you ever need someone to talk to.

[kittendreams]

Verena I know how you feel- ds2 is an opposite and I just could not Understand why I was the 20/30% that failed.
I am 6 weeks with my second attempt at a girl sway and of course I feel like this is another opposite it's only natural since I have failed once before. If this is another opposite it will be hard and I will not sway again as mentally I just could not. Besides I'm 38 and i don't want 4 kids (even though in a Fit of tears the other day dh said a 4th is not off the table if we've failed again bless him he only wanted 1!)

I think Atomic, TP and Ksmom have summed it up pretty well in their comments but I just wanted to say I read your sway and it was fantastic I would have been so happy with that attempt and it is surprising it did not go your way but take heart in that- this little one really beat the odds and what an amazing way to start his life! He's already beating odds! My ds2 is my little man he is just so special everyone says so- he's just meant to be here. And when I panic that I have another opposite on the way I just look at him and know that someone special is coming for us xxx

[Verena]

Thank you so much for your replies, you don't know how much your words mean to me! [emoji813]️ I had very bad GD with DS2 and at least this time I am not disappointed about this baby being a boy. I'm rather somewhere between feeling a bit pity for myself why I am so unlucky to belong to those 20-30% and wanting to try again immediately. But on the other hand I know very well trying again wouldn't be a guarantee at all. Then I think about going HT, which I actually don't want at all because I have some moral problems with it, but somehow my gender desire is stronger than my morality at this point, which makes me feel guilty. And I will be 38 the earliest when we could try again which I think is a bit too old for HT anyway? And last but not least, DH doens't want another. This all makes me feel quite helpless and I think I just have to accept that I won't ever have a daughter.

TP and atomic, I think the femara study was only done with women having PCOS. That's what made me wonder if there is a connection to whether it sways or not. Maybe clomid would have been better for me because it influences CM which femara doesn't and more hostile CM would have stopped DH's huge amount of semen. But that's just me speculating, like you said, searching for an explanation.

TP (off topic :-)), how did your scan go? My secret hope for you is that you already saw a very boyish nub although it's so early. I had a scan at 11w5d as well and it was so clear that my NIPT test was NOT wrong ;-) I really really hope you belong to the lucky 80%!

Ksmom and kittendreams, it helps me so much to read that I'm not the only one with this experience and these feelings!

Ksmom, I see that you wouldn't sway again if you decided to have a fourth... I think it helps a lot to have some "save" options for the future? I still hope DH will change his mind, but realistically he won't.

Kittendreams it's so incredible that your DH would even go for a fourth for you! I'm crossing everything for you that you won't have to concider his "offer" and that this is your girl! [emoji813]️

6c8b58 Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com (http://fertilityfriend.com/home/6c8b58/)

[emoji170] 08/2014 [emoji170] 04/2016

[Trinity]

Hi Verena!

I also know how you feel. Currently im almost 30 weeks pregnant with our 3rd little boy, also a sway opposite. So I'm also joining your 20/30% club. Your sway sounds so solid! I tried Clomid, vegetarian for 6 months, LE for 4 months excersice daily, one attempt, alcohol. I still feel sad sometimes, but i'm striving to be the most proud mommy to three beautiful little boys with blond curles.

I have also been thinking about HT for maybe a next time, but I will be too old (39) by then. So we might sway again in two years.

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm so sorry. I know the feeling. Atomic and TP said it so well, that it's nothing you did or didn't do, just the dice didn't roll in your favor. You could do that exact same sway again 100 times over and get a girl 80 times and a boy 20 times. Swaying is never a 100% guarantee so there's always a chance of getting an opposite. Like you, I really had high hopes of having a girl after swaying for almost a year but it didn't work out that way. It took a long time but I'm okay with it now. Yes I still have GD, but I no longer feel sad about DS3. He is almost 1.5 now and is just the happiest, sweetest baby. He fit right in from the get go. I know it's so hard to not rehash your sway over and over again in your mind but you had a really great sway, just the dice came up blue this roll. Again, I'm so sorry. I wish we could all get our DG. Shoot me a PM if you ever need someone to talk to.

:agree: I have two sway opposites that are now 10 and 8. and just like ks says, they both just FIT in our family in ways that I could not have ever expected, it was like they were puzzle pieces that I didn't even know were missing. (I know that is easy for me to say having gotten a daughter but I am 100% sure I'd feel the same even if I hadn't)

My 3rd son is (people tell me this all the time LOL it's not just all in my head!) the most beautiful child...I don't even know how something so cute came out of my body, ha, ha. He's my husband's buddy and I feel really good that I was able to give him a pal since he was never very close with our two older boys. He's a really hard worker and does all this outdoorsy stuff that my husband likes. My 4th son looks exactly like me and my dad, he's super smart and a complete sweetheart and is hilariously funny. It wasn't just the same "generic boy" again and again. I got a unique, special child every time regardless of their gender and I wouldn't trade them for 10 girls! :) Sometimes we lose sight of that no matter what we're getting a new little person - at least I did, anyway! - and it won't be long till you'll say "oh this all makes sense now, this is right".

[atomic sagebrush]

Re the Clomid/Femara PCOS notion...what happened with the Clomid is that when they took Clomid and gave it to people who did not have PCOS (for timing studies) they STILL got overwhelminglhy more girls, even a higher % than in the other studies and I believe this was in part because of the lack of PCOS (which sways blue). If anything, the Femara would sway MORE for non-PCOSers than those with PCOS.

The way the medications work in non-PCOSers is just the same it works in PCOSers and there really isn't any mechanism that I can think of where it wouldn't work that way regardless of one's PCOS status. It's just how it affects hormones - blocking estrogen then estrogen surges. Works the same for everyone. Additionally since many of our boy moms have PCO-tendencies even without having ever been diagnosed (and we know this since they start eating tons of carbs and they gain weight and their ovulation stops) I suspect a fair few of us have PCO-tendencies anyway!

And since I"ve seen plenty of Femara girls in people who don't have PCOS I am pretty convinced that no matter what, Femara sways pink, very likely more so than Clomid.

[4blue2pink]

Congratulations on your little boy Verena :heart: im sorry your sway didnt go the way you hoped but he will be the perfect fit for your family :) my youngest is a pink sway opposite and i wouldnt swap him for anything, i am swaying again because id rather sway and then be able to sit back, let go of it all and accept whatever outcome comes our way. in the end you get the baby that is meant for your family but i know id struggle with the "what-if's" if i didnt sway!!

Atomic is that your DS3 and DS4 in your pic? they are gorgeous :D

[Throwaway_panther]

Oh verena, you are so sweet to even think of me while you're dealing with this! My scan went well and I'm going to share a pic in my due date group fyi ;)

And yeah, that's true about the study being for PCOS. And the other sources I was talking about weren't just people I knew, but forums with polls where hundreds of women responded -- but they were all PCOS forums! So that's definitely a point, that these women may already be predisposed towards boys and often doing fertility boosting things to get pregnant. Makes me wonder if the women losing weight to help their PCOS might be the girl PCOS Femara-ers.

[atomic sagebrush]

Atomic is that your DS3 and DS4 in your pic? they are gorgeous :D

Yes that's them! Thank you! :)

[Princess Mom]

Your sway sounds better than mine did with my DD. Sorry it didn’t work out, I wish u the best and congrats on the healthy baby boy!

[Mom25boys]

Hugs. I have 5 boys. I swayed only twice and both ended in MC. I'm swaying now against every part of me because I don't know how I will stomach another GD. I love my boys but wonder why I cant have a daughter. I hope 6th time is a charm. More than that I hope it ends in a healthy baby. I know GD well and no one is doubting that you will love your son. It doesnt change the fact that you worked so hard on your amazing sway. We can only plan so much. Congrats on your baby. May he bring you incredible joy.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Verena]

Thank you so much again ladies! This board really is the best [emoji813]️ I'm still grasping at straws a bit and hoping I will get the chance to sway again. At least I have made the plan to start LE diet again when this little one is one year old and weaned or at least not nursing so much anymore. That way I'll be ready if DH changes his mind and if not, I'll at least hopefully lose my baby pounds like this time on the diet.

Any hints on how to make DH change his mind? I know his main reason for not wanting more children is that he is afraid of the extra work and not having time for hobbies or friends ever again. I'm already trying to give him more time without the kids and am thinking about maybe getting an au-pair to help us through the first year with three kids.

Good luck to everyone still swaying or waiting to find out gender!!!

6c8b58 Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com (http://fertilityfriend.com/home/6c8b58/)

[emoji170] 08/2014 [emoji170] 04/2016

[Throwaway_panther]

Thank you so much again ladies! This board really is the best [emoji813]️ I'm still grasping at straws a bit and hoping I will get the chance to sway again. At least I have made the plan to start LE diet again when this little one is one year old and weaned or at least not nursing so much anymore. That way I'll be ready if DH changes his mind and if not, I'll at least hopefully lose my baby pounds like this time on the diet.

Any hints on how to make DH change his mind? I know his main reason for not wanting more children is that he is afraid of the extra work and not having time for hobbies or friends ever again. I'm already trying to give him more time without the kids and am thinking about maybe getting an au-pair to help us through the first year with three kids.

Good luck to everyone still swaying or waiting to find out gender!!!

6c8b58 Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com (http://fertilityfriend.com/home/6c8b58/)

[emoji170] 08/2014 [emoji170] 04/2016

At this point, I feel like many men can change their minds on many things, haha. DH said he'd never do IVF and we did two rounds lol... and I am decidedly not a nag. My BIL was adamant about having only one kid, and now they have three. Haha, so who knows! I think we all can change our minds eventually about things (or at least, I hope most people can be willing to change their minds on some things!). Afterall, here I said I'd NEVER have another girl, and now I'm going Team Green to practically trap myself into the possibility of a girl! And I'd say I'm more stubborn than most people, so hopefully your DH changes his mind once the new baby gets here!

[atomic sagebrush]

I would just not put any pressure on him for now, see what happens. Many times the baby settles in and everything just seems like it has always been that way, and they are more open to the idea!! What you DON"T want to do is get him to dig in his heels by driving him nutty about it so then he's even less likely to agree because it's become a huge power struggle!

[Verena]

Thank you TP and atomic! At the moment I really try my best not even to mention any further children. DH still sometimes is saying things like "YOU wanted this child", when I tell him at 8 p. m. that I would like to go to bed and ask him to take care of the kids for the last hour of the day. Sometimes I don't understand why he wanted children at all. Anyway, still hoping for a miracle once this little one is here.

6c8b58 Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com (http://fertilityfriend.com/home/6c8b58/)

[emoji170] 08/2014 [emoji170] 04/2016