Opinions needed please!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Hello fellow swayers!
I was wanting some feedback on my sway plan. My attempt is 2-3 wks so mid July. Here is my plan:39808

Just to break down, I used to o on cd 16 or 17 so we will start abstain on cd8 and do a 7-8 day abstain. I plan to keep pH low with rephresh and sylk during the abstain. I've been on the le diet for 7 wks already and have lost a few pounds (currently plateaued), loosely doing ions, timing, and ( std on the day of pos opk). If I don't get a pos opk before cd16 we will make an attempt as planned and start the abstain again and try the next week if I don't O within a few days. What do you all think?

[Throwaway_panther]

FYI, you're incorporating some other site IG things we've found sway blue or don't do anything. The antihistamines seem to do nothing, and B6 sways blue. Ions also are unscientific and do nothing! Diet and 1 attempt seem to be best.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Throwawaypanther- thank you for your reply. My sway I posted was based on ig and that's why I came to this site to get a more rounded view on swaying. How does b6 sway blue? Doesn't it raise progesterone levels? It has increased my bbt temps which us an indicator of raised levels right? I have also incorporated it to regulate my cycle and decreased period pains. Is there something else I should take for this instead?Antihistamines were meant to dry up mucus including cm...it's kind of hard to tell if they do that I am sure so it wouldn't be a big deal to keep that in there. Also ions, I have never been fully convinced of their help but I figured it wouldn't hurt.
What all do you suggest I incorporate into my sway instead?Coming off birth control pills sway pink, right?
Sorry for all my questions and ignorance to some sway stuff. I have been on ig for 3 yrs and thought this site was the same thing! Until I read the pH pickle by atomic and I agreed with her view (never really bought that explanation by ig either). Now I see some things are viewed differently here and would like more info on things that are disproved (like the b6) so I can decide for myself what will work for my sway.
Also, are you pregnant? If so I will be praying for a healthy 9 months and a healthy baby in the end!

[Throwaway_panther]

There is no science supporting progesterone swaying blue, and nothing really outside of ovulation and/or supplementation with actual progesterone will affect progesterone levels. The body won't even ovulate with high progesterone! B6 though is what's found in prenatals and royal jelly -- the stuff even IG thinks sways blue too. It's a nutrient, and high nutrients has been found to yield more boys.

I think the antihistamines don't hurt, but they seem to often lead to what you noticed: not necessarily drying up CM as expected!

In terms of the cycle benefits of B6 -- I think Vitex is an herbal supplement known for the same benefits in terms of cycles but sways girl. BUT I know there are some precautions to take with it! Hopefully atomic will step in and be able to better help you with that since I know less on vitex!

And yes I am! Thank you so much! Crossing my fingers every day with this one haha

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Thank you so much! I will look into vitex asap. Does it delay O? B6 delayed it some at first but seemed to sort itself out. Is it believed that higher but around o is girl zone and lower than normal but around o is boy zone? On it it's believed it indicates hormone levels. Higher is more progesterone and lower is more testosterone.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Bump for atomic

[HGmama]

Welcome!

Try not to bump, because atomic sees things oldest first.

I liked reading atomic's essays as a good start.
Yes, coming off birth control does sway girl. Yay.
Have you thought about coffee, fiber, or folate yet?

6d1f2c Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/6d1f2c)

[RaisingGentlemen3]

No I haven't heard of these swaying! I can't stand coffee (love the smell tho) but how do folate and fiber sway? Is there anything to increased dairy?

[HGmama]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egenderdreaming%2 Ecom%2Fforum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D62405&share_tid=62405&share_fid=35024&share_type=t

Hope this link works, otherwise search for a post from atomic about fantastic fiber

6d1f2c Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/6d1f2c)

[atomic sagebrush]

There are some things in this that I don't agree with - it is ALWAYS your sway your way so I'll go over them but please of course do what YOU feel is best.

1)What's your BMI, how much weight do you plan to lose?

2)I am not a fan of B6. We found it to sway strongly blue and it also messes up your cycle hugely, delaying O and shortening LP for many people. I got my 4th boy taking it on IG's suggestion!

3)I prefer you do RepHresh every 3 days as that's how it's meant to be used. Really hasn't worked for us anyway so that should be among the first things to drop if BFN.

4)How are you planning on determining ovulation?? What are you going to do if you don't O on CD 15 or 16?? Especially given that you're coming off BCP, it may be a challenge to time that

5)Abstain hasn't worked for us, fine to start off using it but do drop it over time (preferably before adding attempts)

6)Antihistamines haven't worked for us, I would probably skip those since you're coming off the BCP which can dry up EWCM anyway.

7)Above all else, one attempt in the fertile window has been best for us. So I like to see you guys ditch things like RepH, antihistamine, abstain, timing, Sylk, before you add attempts. Don't keep all those things and then add attempts to conceive because we got a lot of boys with that approach.

8)Can you define "low calorie intake"??

9)I am not a fan of shallow release. We have found it to really, really cut odds of conception hugely and it's never been proven to help sway anyway. i think given all the other things you're doing to sway, you're going to have an extremely low chance of conceiving and I'd personally give the shallow release a pass given all that other stuff.

10) I am totally on board with u guys doing an attempt once a week like you're describing (that's a method that we have used from time to time for people just starting TTC) I would actually suggest taking it a little further in case you do have a delayed O coming off the BCP - I'd start the e7d not on CD 8 or whenever (very low to zero chance of conception) and instead start it CD 10-12 (hubby would have to start abstain different day) that way if you ovulate early - more like CD 14, you'll be covered and then if you O later, say on CD 17, you'll still be covered. UP to you though! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

The data that claims "progesterone sways pink" is super sketchy. We have seen many, MANY people get short LP on sway diets and go on to have girls, coupled with lots of people who have had girls with short LP and go on to get boys on sway diets that normalize their LP. It simply can't be true because if it were, we would not see these strong trends where short LP are leading to girl conceptions and vice versa.

Just do diet and your progesterone will take care of itself.

We track our results differently than IG does. On IG, if you don't do most of the sway "factors" AND your husband doesn't sway, you are not included in results. We include everyone in results no matter what they did or didn't do. So because of this, we have a lot more variation and can see more clearly the things that are working and that which is not (because if everyone does the exact same 100 things you can't see which of those things work,a nd which are just piggybacking on other tactics). Antihistamines have simply not worked, getting only 60% girls for us. Since our overall success rates for everyone (including those who do not use antihistamine) is about 70%, this shows that antihistamines are not doing anything and may even be hurting your odds of success. I also had a statistician do a statistical regression and she found that antihistamines were getting the same results with and without using them (and in fact may even be swaying BLUE, although I'm not totally sure I believe that just yet) And since antihistamines really do cut odds of conception as well it's something we have moved away from...and yet our results are higher than ever!

I wouldn't add anything more into your sway! Your sway is quite strict already, you're going to have quite low chances of conception as it is and I don't think you need to do anything more than what you've already planned.

I know it's super irritating to find out that stuff on IG may not be all it's cracked up to be but that's what I'm here for - to help you understand why the differences are here and then you can decide, based on being fully informed, what you want to include in your sway (and I'll support you no matter what!!) Just let me know any further questions and I'm happy to answer them.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you so much! I will look into vitex asap. Does it delay O? B6 delayed it some at first but seemed to sort itself out. Is it believed that higher but around o is girl zone and lower than normal but around o is boy zone? On it it's believed it indicates hormone levels. Higher is more progesterone and lower is more testosterone.

Yes, vitex has delayed and even stopped O and made short LP just like the B6 can and honestly we are really not using that much anymore either as it too was proving not to be at all helpful (it's even WORSE than antihistamine - 55% vs. 70% for hte overall success rate of the site and the statistician thought it was swaying blue)

The theory about progesterone has NO DATA behind it. It's all one guy's theory, he never did one speck of blood work to prove it, and progesterone is supposed to be low prior to O and high afterwards FOR EVERYONE. This is how the female body works and when people try to raise their progesterone levels at the wrong time of the month they will stop ovulating!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Bump for atomic

Yes please just give me a day or three before bumping. I go from oldest posts to newest and sometimes when a post looks like it may be long (such as going over a sway) I'll skip it on a busy day so it will be my first question answered on the next day. So since I go oldest to newest, bumping just sends the post back to the top of my "new" posts and makes it take even longer! Plus, since I sometimes skip longer posts so I can answer them with fresh eyes, this will mean I am all discombobulated, LOL. I really do answer all posts! The only time to bump is when it's been like a week because sometimes I do click a post to reply and then the window closes on me and I think I replied when I didn't. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

No I haven't heard of these swaying! I can't stand coffee (love the smell tho) but how do folate and fiber sway? Is there anything to increased dairy?

Coffee is here: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/56791-vices-swaying.html

Folate and fiber are here: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/62405-fabulous-fasting-fantastic-fiber-fhenominal-folate.html#post959026 and an additional fiber essay is here: Fantastic Fiber for LE Diet! (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/47776-fantastic-fiber-le-diet.html)

I personally do not believe increased dairy sways pink. It doesn't make sense (75% of all adult women are lactose intolerant and many cultures eat very little dairy) and it's been debunked in the largest study ever done on preconception diet and gender conceived. if you really believe in cal-mag for swaying, that's totally up to you, just be sure you get them from supplements and NOT dairy since dairy is loaded with gobs of other nutrients. Since nutrients sway blue, drinking milk by the gallon can easily lead people to have boys! Also, if you want to take cal-mag be sure you're getting the kind without added Vit. D as Vit. D may sway blue.

I have an essay that may help explain some of the concerns we have with the mineral diets here: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/62533-le-diet-faq-2-mineral-madness-edition.html

[RaisingGentlemen3]

There are some things in this that I don't agree with - it is ALWAYS your sway your way so I'll go over them but please of course do what YOU feel is best.

1)What's your BMI, how much weight do you plan to lose?

2)I am not a fan of B6. We found it to sway strongly blue and it also messes up your cycle hugely, delaying O and shortening LP for many people. I got my 4th boy taking it on IG's suggestion!

3)I prefer you do RepHresh every 3 days as that's how it's meant to be used. Really hasn't worked for us anyway so that should be among the first things to drop if BFN.

4)How are you planning on determining ovulation?? What are you going to do if you don't O on CD 15 or 16?? Especially given that you're coming off BCP, it may be a challenge to time that

5)Abstain hasn't worked for us, fine to start off using it but do drop it over time (preferably before adding attempts)

6)Antihistamines haven't worked for us, I would probably skip those since you're coming off the BCP which can dry up EWCM anyway.

7)Above all else, one attempt in the fertile window has been best for us. So I like to see you guys ditch things like RepH, antihistamine, abstain, timing, Sylk, before you add attempts. Don't keep all those things and then add attempts to conceive because we got a lot of boys with that approach.

8)Can you define "low calorie intake"??

9)I am not a fan of shallow release. We have found it to really, really cut odds of conception hugely and it's never been proven to help sway anyway. i think given all the other things you're doing to sway, you're going to have an extremely low chance of conceiving and I'd personally give the shallow release a pass given all that other stuff.

10) I am totally on board with u guys doing an attempt once a week like you're describing (that's a method that we have used from time to time for people just starting TTC) I would actually suggest taking it a little further in case you do have a delayed O coming off the BCP - I'd start the e7d not on CD 8 or whenever (very low to zero chance of conception) and instead start it CD 10-12 (hubby would have to start abstain different day) that way if you ovulate early - more like CD 14, you'll be covered and then if you O later, say on CD 17, you'll still be covered. UP to you though! :)

Thank you so much atomic! I will definitely drop antihistamines and b6. After what you wrote and talking with a trusted friend from ig, I won't be taking vitex either. Love all the info!
1) I don't know my bmi but I am 5'4" and currently 130 lbs. I have lost 13 lbs since starting the le/ig diet back in March (slowly integrated the diet elements into my daily routine). I would personally like to get down to 125 but not bc of swaying, I just like that weight for me.
4) I am temping and will be using opks as well when it's time
9)low cal to me has been 12-1400 calories.
10) I meant on cd8 we would bd but not to ttc, just to help dh bc he can't abstain more than 7-8 days. If we std on cd 7 in the am would 7 days be CD 14 in the evening or cd15? I was thinking with one attempt every week I could possibly catch o even if it ended up being a cut off. But if I O 5 or more days after an attempt I understand I could miss it and I am fine with that as I am not sure when I will O anyways.

[atomic sagebrush]

1)Ok. That means your BMI is 22.3 and you can safely lose down to BMI 21 (so a few more pounds) here's a BMI calculator to use as you lose weight https://www.google.com/search?q=bmi+calculator&rlz=1CAASUF_enUS719US721&oq=bmi+calculator&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59j0l4.2939j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

4)Ok. As long as you're doing the OPK you can have a good try coming off the BCP!

9)I prefer everyone on 1500-1800 cals. Going too low on calorie intake is the #1 thing people do "wrong" because you can delay or even stop ovulation and will have to basically eat a blue sway diet to get things going again!

10) CD 14 or 15, either would be fine. There is no magic to the amount of days, just as long as you're going about 7 days between BD rounds. Yes exactly that's the benefit of the e7d - it will one hundred percent for sure be one attempt and you will still have a fair chance at lucking your way into a well-timed attempt for conception.

Timing doesn't sway. Modern science using much better technology and information than Dr. Shettles has proven 50-50 boys and girls conceived every cycle day so if that's a concern I'd let that go. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

Of course all this is largely irrelevant if you're using the OPK because you can simply use them to know when to do the one attempt! no need to BD every 7 days if using OPK because you'll know when the surge occurs

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Since I have been doing 12-1400 calories for 2 or 3 weeks do you think my body could be used to it and ovulate relatively normally (except bcp probably throws it off)? I really want to get as close to 125 before we conceive as I can although I am already 2 lbs lighter than when I got pregnant the 2nd time, 5 lbs lighter than the 1st time and 9 lbs lighter than the 3rd time as I weigh 129 now. I only seem to be losing 1/2 lb a week. What do you think?
Since we are dtd e7d it makes me worried we will miss o if I O 4 or days after one attempt. We are ttc every Sunday afternoon and so what should I do if I O on Fri or Saturday? Just forget about it and move on to the next month? I know the first cycle after bcp sways very heavily pink do I'm afraid to miss it but I don't want boy zone abstain.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

I want to clarify, I was doing about 2000-2100 cals a dat before diet. I cut back to roughly 1600 a day then down again to 1200ish a day sometimes 1400. I did it slowly over time so I could manage it and not go bonkers.
Also could you help me understand how e4d sways girl? Wouldn't that put dh in boy zone sperm-count-wise? And isn't there a significant chance sperm could still be alive to fertilize the egg at 4days? I've seen so many in the July 2ww doing e4d and I just don't get it. I'm asking to understand it mostly bc I'm afraid that I will O 3-5 days after an attempt and be tempted to try e4d then but I want enough info to make a good decision. You know?

[atomic sagebrush]

Since I have been doing 12-1400 calories for 2 or 3 weeks do you think my body could be used to it and ovulate relatively normally (except bcp probably throws it off)? I really want to get as close to 125 before we conceive as I can although I am already 2 lbs lighter than when I got pregnant the 2nd time, 5 lbs lighter than the 1st time and 9 lbs lighter than the 3rd time as I weigh 129 now. I only seem to be losing 1/2 lb a week. What do you think?
Since we are dtd e7d it makes me worried we will miss o if I O 4 or days after one attempt. We are ttc every Sunday afternoon and so what should I do if I O on Fri or Saturday? Just forget about it and move on to the next month? I know the first cycle after bcp sways very heavily pink do I'm afraid to miss it but I don't want boy zone abstain.

No unfortunately too low cals seems to be cumulative at least in the time frame we are talking about...meaning that while yes maybe eventually a person's metabolism could adjust and there are women walking around out there who really eat that small an amount, it took them YEARS to adjust to that (or else they have always eaten that since childhood). But in the shorter time frame we run a sway in, 2-3 weeks is NOT enough for your metabolism to adjust and I fear you'll stop ovluating (or make it take a really long time to come back on the BCP) within a month or two if you don't bump up your cals somewhat. 1200-1400 calories has been a disaster for the vast majority of people who tried it, particularly if they were eating significantly more than that to start with.

1/2 lb a week loss is a very nice pace. :agree: That is good news because you will be less likely to stop O at that pace of weight loss. I still strongly urge you to eat more, though.

Yes that's indeed the risk of e7d. It's just the chance you take doing it that way. But if you're doing OPK then you have the option of deciding to add an attempt in. Let's say u BD on Sun and then you're due to O according to OPK on Saturday. That's still 6 days out and I'd have u do an attempt in that scenario!

Re "boy zone abstain" we have not found the frequency patterns to really make much (if any) difference. Daily release and abstain have done nothing for pink - getting substantially lower than the overall success rate of the site (they're up a bit right now because we've had a strong couple years thanks to getting diet and exercise dialed in better, but for years and years prior they've been coming in in the 50% range) More about this in next post

[atomic sagebrush]

I want to clarify, I was doing about 2000-2100 cals a dat before diet. I cut back to roughly 1600 a day then down again to 1200ish a day sometimes 1400. I did it slowly over time so I could manage it and not go bonkers.
Also could you help me understand how e4d sways girl? Wouldn't that put dh in boy zone sperm-count-wise? And isn't there a significant chance sperm could still be alive to fertilize the egg at 4days? I've seen so many in the July 2ww doing e4d and I just don't get it. I'm asking to understand it mostly bc I'm afraid that I will O 3-5 days after an attempt and be tempted to try e4d then but I want enough info to make a good decision. You know?

e4d -

What we have found over time is that neither abstain nor FR were working. We had a very illuminating experience early on where we assumed that what we should do is do all the old school sway tactics...timing, frequency, pH, herbal supps, things to dry up CM, etc...and then since that makes it very hard to conceive, we added attempts to get pregnant. What we found was that NONE of the old school sway tactics worked!! They all had TERRIBLE results. And the only thing that DID work was having one attempt in the fertile window. No one had ever suspected that number of attempts might possibly sway, but the results seemed to show that, and when we started emphasizing one attempt, our results went up and stayed up ever since. Now, over the course of time, the results with one attempt have ~appeared~ to drop but that is because so many people have heard of it being the "magic" girl method that a lot of people will do that even if they haven't done diet, exercise, etc and this makes the success rate drop. But I still strongly believe in one attempt because of our earlier experience with it (when it was literally the only thing that seemed to be working aside from diet and exercise!!)

Now, as for e4d, it's meant to be a method to boost chances of conception. I prefer that no one (well, very few people) start off with e4d. I like most people to start off doing one attempt + whatever sway tactics you want (and if u want to try with abstain/daily release at first, that's cool, just drop them before adding attempts.) Then we have a method where we have hubby do regular release every 2-4 days (and yes, this is technically a blue-friendly pattern, but remember, our results showed that release patterns/frequency was not working anyway!!) WITH one attempt for better chance of conception than abstain/FR + one attempt. But even that was not enough for people to get pregnant.

Part of the problem with one attempt is that it's VERY easy to ovulate early or late on LE Diet and additionally it's also very VERY easy to screw it up with the OPK (they are bargain basement technology, to be honest) and so by putting all our eggs in one basket, literally LOL and having only one attempt it is really very easy to miss the egg. So after people have tried with one attempt and tried with one attempt + reg. release every 2-4 days for hubby AND have dropped all other sway attempts that have gotten disappointing results, then and only then do I have people go to e4d. (some people go to e4d sooner than that because they need higher odds of conception sooner) e4d is NOT my preferred method for everyone to start with (some people, yes, but not most). It's something that people who have been trying for a while will switch to.

The reason why every 4 days works, though, is that it is STILL one attempt. I know it seems like it isn't, but it is. We have extensive experience with Shettles timing (most of us have at least one Shettles opposite, LOL) and we found that 4 day cutoffs were practically zero chances of conception with swaying, and even 3 day cutoffs with swaying were a longshot (the reason I mention "with swaying" is because while it is possible to get pregnant with 3/4 day cutoffs - although slim odds - it is still possible, but with swaying, it makes it much harder to conceive that way and thus the rules/results are different for swayers than for the average person who tries for a cutoff).

So BD every 4 days means that you'll end up with attempts O-5 and O-2 OR O-4 and O-1 OR O-3 a and O Day (using the Monday/Thursday pattern of e4d) Since swaying cuts odds of conceiving with O-5 and O-4 to nil (even without swaying, these have been proven to be exceedingly unlikely days to conceive and most people who think they did conceive these days actually ovualted early) thus yielding one attempt. Even in the "worst case" scenario of O-3 and O Day it is still functionally one attempt because if there is anything left over from the O-3 attempt, it will fertilize the egg before the O Day shot has a chance to capacitate, and if there isn't (which there likely isn't! because O-3 has been such poor chances of conception for us) then the O DAy shot can capacitate to make it to the egg.

So, given all that, my advice to you is for the first month out, even tho coming off the BCP, I'd stick with either the e7d method (keeping a possible attempt 5-6 days after as an ace in the hole if needed) or one attempt at pos OPK. Not because of the frequency of DH's release but just because I don't have the same level of faith in the e4d vs. the one attempt yet. I really believe in the one attempt because I saw such a clearcut delineation between our success rates before and after one attempt. The e4d I am not yet sold on and even though on paper I believe it to be one attempt, I just am not "there yet" with my faith in it, if that makes sense.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Atomic you are awesome! Thank you for all the explanations! It's so hard to let go of some things I got used to on ig like vaginal pH and dh release frequency! I would still prefer e7d I just hope it works out for us. We actually dtd Sunday and ended up dtd Wednesday too (so unintentional e4d haha) but are doing the 7 day abstain now so next bd will be Wednesday which is CD16! Hope I don't O before then but I'm doubting I will bc of my low cal intake and even with b6 regulating me last time I swayed I didn't o until cd17 or cd19. Hoping for cd17 this time of course (or cd16 I guess too). I agree if it's been 6 days since the last bd when I O then we will attempt. Wpuld it be smart to have dh release and then 6 hrs later make an attempt? I know it hasn't given great data but sperm count is hard for me to let go no guess.
Thank you for all the help you've given me and countless others!

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, I invented the frequency pattern idea and so you should listen to me on that one LOL. :)

Case against pH is here if anyone wants to read it. https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/11684-ph-pickle.html

Are you taking B6 now?? B6 is notorious for delaying ovulation and I think it sways blue anyway.

Re whether to have DH dump first batch and use only second, we don't ahve any hard evidence that it works, and it DOES really cut odds of conception a lot. Sometimes DH is not evne able to go the second time and this has caused people to miss whole months! So you have to ask yourself if it makes sense to take a chance on a sway tactic that is totally unproven when it will lower your odds of getting pregnant that first month coming off the BCP!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

I am not on b6 now but last time before I took it I would o anywhere from cd15 to CD 23. When I took it I would usually O cd17 sometimes cd19. I'm still not sure if I would have dh dump the first batch and dtd 6 hrs later or not. Is it that hard to get pregnant right after bcp? I'm so fertile that we were always scared even if I missed 1!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes it's hard both to get pregnant coming off the BCP but also very very hard to conceive using the second batch (and just so you're clear, it's really meant to be more like after 1-3 hours; the 6 hours is the absolutely longest between rounds I consider to still be hurry up FR). So my concern is not that the BCP PLUS the hurry up FR will make it extra hard, my concern is that the hurry up FR will make it extra hard all on its own, and then you have missed your shot at conceiving that first month coming off the BCP and have missed out on that potential benefit. I hope that makes sense, it's a subtle difference I'm trying to express here. :)

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Yes that makes sense. It's already hard why make it harder, right? If I don't get prego this time I might try the hurry up fr if I O before the 7 day abstain is up. I probably shouldn't mess up the 1st month off bcp bc that probably gives a better boost to swaying girl than hurry fr...right?

[atomic sagebrush]

Exactly, but beyond that, why make it harder in ways that don't even work, thus lowering your odds of pregnancy with the things that DO work, right?? Why miss that first month off BCP chasing tactics that do nothing and really lower your chances getting pregnant with that month of the BCP residue? so yes I'd have u skip the hurry up FR but it's your sway your way.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Exactly, but beyond that, why make it harder in ways that don't even work, thus lowering your odds of pregnancy with the things that DO work, right?? Why miss that first month off BCP chasing tactics that do nothing and really lower your chances getting pregnant with that month of the BCP residue? so yes I'd have u skip the hurry up FR but it's your sway your way.

Yes I agree and thank you! I would love to get pregnant this first round so I will forego the rushed fr. I am CD 15 today and still neg opks. I'm trying not to care and stress about it. I am really hoping to O tomorrow or Thursday. Fx!

[atomic sagebrush]

FX and TX too!!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

With my 1st 2 boys I dtd every other day and ds3 was an o+12 attempt. This time I wasn't worried about timing but trying to stick to a 7 day abstain. Although now it's looking like I might o Sunday bc my opk I took at work today is decently darker than yesterday at the same time. If I O Sunday we might try compressed fr (2x in 6 hrs) or a regular attempt. I'm not sure I want to miss the 1st month off bcp or if I should wait til next cycle. Which is better, 1st month off bcp or abstain?
We dtd Wednesday night so Sunday would be 4 days. I was going for the abstain but I know you have found it debunked

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Also meant to add that someone in the ttc group suggested to maybe j & d 2 mins after attempt as a compromise to compressed fr. What do you think? I know you don't like fr this round bc it'll reduce chances of pregnancy but it's just hard to let go of decreasing sperm count. Sorry if I'm annoying you!

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not annoying to me, it's just that I worry that the more you fret and argue with yourself about what to do and add, the worse it is for your sway because of the control freak factor (which sways more than a lot of sway tactics.)

None of the things that have reduced sperm count appear to have worked with the exception of J and D. So if you want to do a J and D, that's fine. (and any sway tactics you want to use are also fine, just pick them and do them without the inner debate the whole time because that's worse for your sway than any of this stuff.)

First cycle off BCP is better than abstain. WAY better, I suspect, although we don't have the kind of data we need yet to prove that.

2x in 6 hours, just to be clear, is NOT compressed FR. What you're thinking of is hurry up FR and for that to be effective it really needs to be within 1 hour or 3 hours. 6 hours is the outside limit of what I consider to be hurry up FR and is NOT a goal to be aimed at but is more of an "OMGosh what do I do if hubby can't BD right away?" kind of thing. I just feel like you are adding all this detail oriented stress for something that is likely not even doing anything, so my advice is pick a plan of action and stick with it. What you're doing in overly focusing on details that are unimportant, is undermining your sway for things that don't even work anyway.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Sorry I thought hurry up fr was another term for compressed fr. I understand now. I really can't see my dh being able to dtd 2x in 3 hrs (or less) so I will just j&d if I O before Wednesday. If I O Wednesday or Thurs I won't do either one. Thanks for all the help and patience. I honestly don't feel stressed about it I just wanted to know asap bc I might o soon.

[atomic sagebrush]

No that's fine, I just wanted to clarify because compressed FR is a totally different thing that takes several days to do.

You don't even have to feel stressed out about it, it's just best to put that plan in place and then stick everything on autopilot. You're on target for a good sway here, just don't want you to be thinking about it too much. :)

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Omg is this positive?!39908

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes! Good luck and pink dust headed your way!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Yes! Good luck and pink dust headed your way!

Thank you!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Atomic, my temps went down and my test was negative so I'm thinking no spermies made it to my egg! I am 12/13 dpo so I am just waiting for af now. My question is I was thinking of taking bcp for a cycle and then trying again? Or taking it for 1.5-2 wks then stop and track o with opks and temps...? I just really feel like bcp sways so much more and of course I'm on the diet still and all the stuff I did before minus the sylk...i had put .5 ml of sylk up there before dtd. What do you think? I really don't want to miss a month bc of bcp but I want the best chance for a dd! I'm so disappointed bc I have had some many cramps, back pain, and round ligament pain the past few days so I was pretty sure I was pregnant!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

40013

😣

[atomic sagebrush]

Why, though?? just for swaying??

That is not enough time on the BCP to sway and would only potentially mess up your cycle for no real benefit. About 65% of people have gotten girls with BCP - that's less than diet, exercise, one attempt - so it's really not adding anything beyond the overall success of the site and most of those people were on it for months and not only for a couple weeks.

The reason I mention BCP/Mirena swaying is not because I want you guys to start playing around with it because it really does make cycles crazy irregular and cuts odds of conception. It's just because I want people who are already ON the BCP to hopefully reap any benefits from that. And I am just not convinced that a couple weeks will do much of anything.

But, it's certainly not a dealbreaker in any way, if you did want to give it a whirl, we'll all be waiting to find out how it goes!

Also be sure you're not using any of the herbal supplements on the BCP - no peppermint, vitex, or saw palmetto!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Yes it was just for swaying. Im not sure what I will do yet but I will pray about it and talk with my dh. Im guessing it's pretty likely I'm not pregnant since I used an frer? So bummed

[atomic sagebrush]

How sure are you about when you ovulated??

I often see this pattern in charts where there is a rise, then another rise, then sometimes a third rise, even, and only after the second or third "stairstep" does ovulation actually occur.

If you ovulated later (more like what the chart has down as 7-8 DPO) and then that temp dip was the secondary estrogen surge you could be pregnant but just not having the pregnancy register on the test yet. OR it could even be that you haven't ovulated yet and are still fertile - so keep having attempts to guard aganst that potential!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Well I think i did bc of opk, temp, and ewcm but I'm not sure now. My temp went up this morning and I've had lots of watery cm (felt like af a couple of times), cramps and back aches the last couple of days. Also got up to pee at 3 or 4 am the past 2 nights. This is all so weird to me!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

New chart
40021

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes I'm wondering if you might have ovulated later. The pesky thing about false ovulation is that you can have all the normal symptoms but the egg still doesnt get released.

Not out till AF arrives! FXFXFX!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Well af showed her ugly face an hr ago. So I wasn't ovulating late but honestly glad bc if I had, all my swaying would've been wasted! Here's to August and a Mothers day baby! Thanks for all your help and I am sure I will need some in 19 days haha!

[atomic sagebrush]

Very good! Thanks for updating! Good luck for August!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

I am cd18 today and yesterday the opk was some what darker than the day before. Ff has me o'ing on sunday but i am not overly confident as i did end up taking bcp for a week at the beginning of this cycle. We are planning on a 7 day abstain but we had make up sex Monday :oops::oops: so our abstain would be 5/6 days tops. Is it worth skipping over? Also I've noticed my temps are lower than normal this cycle, is there anything to that? It's hard for me to believe that means my egg will be in boy zone just bc of lower temps. Of course my O might delay until Mon or Tues so it's not for sure yet.
On a good note, it's been storming all day yesterday and today and supposed to again Sunday and possibly Monday as well. And I've been taking folate, fiber, and recently took up coffee (helps with homeschooling in the mornings). And of course diet is going very well, I've grown quite used to it really. I don't even have to keep track of calories anymore bc I pretty much know what I can eat and how much. I've used rephresh every 3 days but don't plan to use it closer to O or pos opk day. So I feel like my sway is going well this cycle other than the abstain and temps!

[atomic sagebrush]

Abstain hasn't worked and I"d never tell anyone to hold off a week for that.

I personally don't buy into the concept that temps predict your baby's gender. It's supposed to be that estrogen = lower temps and more boys conceived but I've seen SOOOO many people who have low temps for 10,000 other reasons other than hormones that I am hard pressed to believe in it at all.

Hey, fellow homeschooler here, and yes coffee is a must LOL. :) Everything else is looking great to me. Good luck and pink dust headed your way.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Thank you so much atomic! I figured there wasn't much to those things! I actually feel better bc I used the chart overlay on f2f and found only 1 rogue temp really (the other low one isn't accurate) and so my temps are probably doing their normal thing. My opk was super negative today and so I am in hopes of o on Monday or Tuesday 😁 I know there isn't much proof in abstain but it's hard to let go of!
Homeschooling is a blessing and a curse lol. It's so hard some mornings when my toddler is not having it (playing by himself) and my older two are grumpy. But that's not every day so I try to enjoy it! It's interesting to think this time last yr my oldest couldn't read yet and now he is reading his own instructions and working independently! It's fun to watch!40135

[atomic sagebrush]

Yeah if anything your temps are higher this month! :)

Argh I meant hold off a cycle, not a week! But I think you understood.

Is there any way you could have jsut ovulated??

Yes it's super challenging when there's a little one that needs so much from you and you're trying to teach (and cook and clean and do all the stuff you need to do any ordinary day) But it does get easier once they're more able to work on their own! Good luck!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

I guess its always ppssivle to have already ovulated but i never got a pos opk. Another thing confusing me is that I had some light spotting yesterday afternoon! Just a wipe or two of pinkosh-brown. I guess its not too common but you can spot while ovulating or right before but I never had a positive opk or even close! I was guessing I might get a pos today but not hardly.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Also here's my chart overlay for today 40142

[atomic sagebrush]

I spotted that big dip so I was wondering if that was O. Unfortunately it's possible to get false negative OPK (happens very often, too) Since your temps did not rise I agree it's not O yet.

Re the spotting, you CAN get spotting around O because your cervix gets very soft. That big dip makes me wonder if your body "thought" about Oing, released some estrogen, which sofens up the cervix and can trigger spotting. I would not be surprised if you O within the next few days.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

I am at work (radiology) and the ultrasound tech was called in for an er patient so I asked her to scan me and see if I have a follicle or not. Turns out I have one on the left that's about 1.5 cm (she didn't measure). She guessed in a couple days or so!! That makes me so happy to finally know something and to for sure know I am at least gearing up to O! I don't think I have ever ovulated and fell pregnant from my left side so that's exciting as well.
Tomorrow will be 7 days for our abstain. My dh does not want to wait any longer than the 7 for fear of wet dreams. He wants to start frequent release after we dtd tomorrow since we don't know when I will O for sure and my opks are super light still. Idk what to do! I wish he could hold out longer but he says he can't. He does have a pretty high sex drive so I believe him but i wish he could! Should we start fr (once a day) and then the day I get a pos try to dtd 3 as soon as we can? I'm sure he can once at work and we could fool around at home twice using the last one as the attempt. I really don't think it'll be another week til I o but I guess it could. I initially wanted to attempt tomorrow and start abstain again and if I O before the 7 days we can do the 3x asap thing. But now I am unsure

[atomic sagebrush]

Please don't switch from abstain to FR. What that does is, for the last week your hubby's "jewels" was thinking there was no sex and so it shut down production. Then all of a sudden he's getting it every day and "jewels" are like "oh wow the dry spell has ended" and cranks production up thru the roof. If he can't go any longer have him clear the pipes once and then resume the abstain. We have found that not having 7-10 days of FR is worse than nothing for many guys. So many of our hubbies when we have all boys are able to shake off 3-4-5 days back to back as if it's nothing and so I really really really don't recommend having u guys switch to FR now, you'll never be able to fit in the 7-10 days.

There is no 3x asap thing. There is the hurry up FR which is having him release once, dump it, then DTD for reals as soon as he's able to using only the second batch for insemination but there is no 3x release in a row thing.

If you must make the switch, go to compressed FR. Have him release 2-3 times a day from now till the day of attempt and then if possible have him even release in the morning of that attempt day (this is hard to hit since you usually won't even know it's attempt day till after the morning has passed). But don't tack a hurry up FR onto that. You'll cut odds of conception to virtually nil doing CFR with a hurry up FR tacked onto the end of it.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

I think I will just convince him to go back to abstain. I can see how switching to fr would mess things up! That's why i felt so uneasy about it! I appreciate your info and all. I figure if I ovulate Wednesday thatd be a 2 day cut off and if I O Thursday or Friday we could make another attempt. I doubt it'll hold of til next Sunday or Monday but we will wait that long if so.
I am having pains today like I do around o but last month I had them a week before actually O'ing so who knows!

[atomic sagebrush]

yep you can get O pains before, during, and after O and they aren't really helpful for pinning down O, unfortunately.

Good luck and pink dust headed your way!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Yea they are worse today so I was hoping for at least a little pink on the opk but there's still barely a squinter! We decided to go back to abstain and do hurry up fr if I get a +opk before Saturday. If we do hurry up fr then I won't j&d to help compensate for low sperm count. If I get a +opk Sat or later we will make a regular attempt. I'm excited! Just waiting for that + now!

[atomic sagebrush]

can you post a current chart?

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Here it is! The last dip I believe to be so low bc I slept with my mouth open!
40186

[atomic sagebrush]

Temp + rise may be O! FXFXFX for more rises now

[RaisingGentlemen3]

I haven't got a + opk...? And I just got some ewcm today. I am almost pos I haven't o'ed. Nd I really hope not since there won't be a viable attempt if I have ( he pulled out Monday night). Any way my temp went to 97.18 today.

[atomic sagebrush]

So back down again? Ok then the high temp was probably just a fluke.

But you can ovulate without ever getting a positive OPK. False neg OPK are a real issue, unfortunately.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Yea I believe you. The fluke temps are the low ones, I never have these weird dips! I will keep you updated tho. I got a bunch of ewcm today so expecting o in 2 or 3 days I think!

[atomic sagebrush]

FXFXFX!!!!

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Cd26 today and finally a +opk! We will try hurry up fr tonight I think. Does it greatly decrease chances of pregnancy? I used rephresh Wednesday night so it will be 48 hrs since I used it. What do you think?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, it greatly decreases chances of pregnancy. I would pick either another dose of RepHresh OR the hurry up FR, not both.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

I wasn't planning on using rephresh again today but was planning hurry fr...do you think my chances are too much decreased?

[atomic sagebrush]

As long as you don't do the RepHresh again, you'll be in with a chance. I honestly can't know if it's a good chance or not. Not enough people have conceived with the hurry up FR. What I do know is that many people who have tried hurry up FR have ended up with NO attempt when their husband could not perform a second time!

This is one of those annoying instances where I really don't know what is best, and when I don't, I have to toss the ball back to you. :)

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Ugh. I could see that. Especially since he's not feeling the best today. I will just have to make sure with him before trying. 😏 it's been 4 days since we last dtd

[atomic sagebrush]

FXFXFX for successful attempt and pink dust headed your way.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

So kind of confused and bummed. My temps have not been normal and reliable this cycle and my post o temps aren't any better. My temp the day of my + was super low and not reliable as I i had less than 2 straight hrs of sleep. The next 2 days (day of o & after) were accurate but odd as they were 97.33 and 97.68 respectively. Then Monday I worked overnight but temped that afternoon so it as usual is not reliable. And today I slept through the night but I woke up with my mouth open. It was 97.58. What the heck? Ff has me O'ing last Friday but that was the super low day with less than 2 hrs of sleep. And I usually O the after a +. I'm so confused. I feel like I ovulated since the pelvic pain and pressure is gone now. Which is what usually happens for me. What do you think?

[atomic sagebrush]

If you feel like you've ovulated I would roll with that but if you start having any O-like symptoms, I'd attempt again. Sometimes you can have a faker where your body gears up to O and then 'changes its mind" and the symptoms can be identical to a true ovulation and can go away after it happens for a while, only to reoccur later on with a whole new batch of symptoms.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Thanks atomic. I will keep an eye for o symptoms but I truly do feel like it happened Saturday. I finally got a reliable temp thus morning and it was 98.11! Super high for me! I know it's too early for pregnancy signs but it did make me a lil giddy- can't help it! And I have a ton of creamy cm which I had very early on with my last pregnancy. And last cycle i was dry for most of the 2ww. Haha I know I am grasping at straws!

[atomic sagebrush]

:fx:

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Atomic! Looky!
40284
I'm 11 dpo and just had to test this afternoon. My temps have been crazy high for me plus I was moody, achey, hungry all the time, and starting to be fatigued. And I had a very mild YI which cleared up with yogurt only, no meds.
40285

[atomic sagebrush]

Nice! Sooo excited for you!