Atomic please help with 2 loss

[jenn1112]

Hi Atomic, recently found out baby is a boy and tested positive for trisomy18 [emoji22] which I guess I’ve felt all along since he’s always measured 3 days behind. I’m devastated to have lost another baby in 2nd trimester. I don’t want my kids to know about this loss so just praying I can get pregnant again right after and maybe they’ll never know.

My question is how soon after d&e is it safe to conceive? 2 weeks after bleeding stops If I’m tracking ovulation? Does this sway girl and if so what steps do I take now? Start LE and what vitamins do I continue to take or stop? I won’t have the d&e until next Friday.

I do have one more dose of 50mg clomid but I’m scared thinking that the clomid or lack of nutrients or maybe the alcohol, Or something I did caused these 2 possible chromosomal losses as I’ve had 3 healthy kids prior. I did find one article online saying that clomid could cause birth defects but I have no idea if it is legit? Fertility dr said my eggs are good so what is going on? Please help on what to do next.

I want a girl so badly but more importantly I want a healthy baby. I just can’t go through this again [emoji20]
Thank you


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[Throwaway_panther]

Oh jenn, I am so heartbroken for you. An Edward's boy is pretty unusual too (Trisomy 18 is predominantly girls), so it sucks you got sucker punched more than one way with this.

You are not "causing" any of this. Chromosomal abnormalities are mutations -- often just bad luck. Some things can increase the risks (older age for both you and DH or one of you, some lifestyle things that affect egg and sperm quality, etc.). If your doctor is saying your egg quality is good (WHICH, to be fair, they have a very difficult time determining one way or the other -- hormone panels are just indicators of things), it might be worth getting your husband's sperm checked out (oxidative stress/sperm fragmentation testing). I am a big proponent of this after my own experiences and learning that male sperm issues are becoming borderline epidemic worldwide (the WHO has even said something on it).

As for Clomid -- Clomid causes birth defects if taken WHILE pregnant, not as a a means to GET pregnant, fyi. But I totally understand your apprehension!!

Did you ever find out why you lost your DD as well? Two second trimester losses is definitely something to investigate imo. RPL is technically 2-3 losses in a row, and second trimester losses are often a whole other ball game for their rarity. If you need any support or have questions about going down that road, don't hesitate to ask since me and many others have navigated the Reproductive Endo route after having multiple losses.

I am just so, so sorry jenn. I feel crushed that you had so much worry this whole pregnancy and then had this happen -- I just feel so much for your months of stress. I want so badly for you to get your healthy girl!!!!

[jenn1112]

Oh jenn, I am so heartbroken for you. An Edward's boy is pretty unusual too (Trisomy 18 is predominantly girls), so it sucks you got sucker punched more than one way with this.

You are not "causing" any of this. Chromosomal abnormalities are mutations -- often just bad luck. Some things can increase the risks (older age for both you and DH or one of you, some lifestyle things that affect egg and sperm quality, etc.). If your doctor is saying your egg quality is good (WHICH, to be fair, they have a very difficult time determining one way or the other -- hormone panels are just indicators of things), it might be worth getting your husband's sperm checked out (oxidative stress/sperm fragmentation testing). I am a big proponent of this after my own experiences and learning that male sperm issues are becoming borderline epidemic worldwide (the WHO has even said something on it).

As for Clomid -- Clomid causes birth defects if taken WHILE pregnant, not as a a means to GET pregnant, fyi. But I totally understand your apprehension!!

Did you ever find out why you lost your DD as well? Two second trimester losses is definitely something to investigate imo. RPL is technically 2-3 losses in a row, and second trimester losses are often a whole other ball game for their rarity. If you need any support or have questions about going down that road, don't hesitate to ask since me and many others have navigated the Reproductive Endo route after having multiple losses.

I am just so, so sorry jenn. I feel crushed that you had so much worry this whole pregnancy and then had this happen -- I just feel so much for your months of stress. I want so badly for you to get your healthy girl!!!!

Thank you so much, this is very helpful. I will talk to my husband about getting his Sperm tested. We do not know what caused my daughter’s loss, her heart just stopped. Her NIPT and ultrasounds were normal but I guess she could have always had some very rare trisomy that wasn’t tested in the NIPT?
I was going to let the RE know about this 2nd loss as he seemed to think everything was good in the beginning based on ultrasounds. I’m wondering if I should just risk trying again right after or wait to see what tests I should have done. My OB seems to think it’s just crappy luck 2x :( and I’d be fine trying 2 weeks after the bleeding stops.
I do think I’ll definitely make an appt with the fertility dr to see what he suggests. Thank you again for your help


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[atomic sagebrush]

Jenn I'm so sorry to read this.

I think you need to wait out at least one cycle and possibly two depending on how the D and E goes. They will know better how to advise you on this. We don't want to trade one unpreventable problem (chromosomal) for a preventable one by TTC before your body is capable of sustaining pregnancy again.

It's fine to start LE Diet now and exercise if you feel up to it. But remember you are about to go through a medical procedure and you may just want to hold off for a while to ensure you have the strength and energy to focus on recovery.

Your previous loss was tested and did not have a chromosomal issue. We can imagine all sorts of hypothetical genetic issues but I don't think it is of benefit for you to assume that this was genetic when the evidence indicates otherwise. Other things can cause losses that are not genetic and the causes of most losses are totally unknown. Aside from that, chromosomal losses are not caused in the way you're thinking of them, they are just a very unfortunate roulette that sometimes does not come up our way and as we get older, the more likely it is that we have the luck of the draw not go our way. The best news you can get is that the doctor has tested your eggs and that they're good. That means that this is unlikely to happen again.

Of course if you feel better about leaving out alcohol please do.

Clomid does not cause birth defects. I have talked about this with several experts. In the old studies that claimed to find a link, they did not correct for the fact that women on Clomid are typically older, have PCOS or other health issues that themselves cause a higher rate of birth defects, were on other medication that may cause birth defects (such as progesterone supplements), and Clomid is more likely to cause twinning and multiples also have a higher rate of birth defects. When scientists corrected for those things, they found that Clomid doesn't cause increased rates of birth defects and it was a false correlation. Unfortunately, when dealing with things online, some sources don't always keep their information up to date but I believe Clomid to be one of the safest medications there is. But of course it's up to you if you want to drop it out of the mix.

Just for your peace of mind in future pregnancies and for anyone else reading this, measuring 3 days behind does not indicate a baby has a chromosomal abnormality. This isn't a quibble, I just know that people do stress about measurements and it isn't indicative of anything being amiss - this was just a coincidence. I don't want you to stress over a minor measurement discrepancy in future pregnancies. :heart:

[jenn1112]

Jenn I'm so sorry to read this.

I think you need to wait out at least one cycle and possibly two depending on how the D and E goes. They will know better how to advise you on this. We don't want to trade one unpreventable problem (chromosomal) for a preventable one by TTC before your body is capable of sustaining pregnancy again.

It's fine to start LE Diet now and exercise if you feel up to it. But remember you are about to go through a medical procedure and you may just want to hold off for a while to ensure you have the strength and energy to focus on recovery.

Your previous loss was tested and did not have a chromosomal issue. We can imagine all sorts of hypothetical genetic issues but I don't think it is of benefit for you to assume that this was genetic when the evidence indicates otherwise. Other things can cause losses that are not genetic and the causes of most losses are totally unknown. Aside from that, chromosomal losses are not caused in the way you're thinking of them, they are just a very unfortunate roulette that sometimes does not come up our way and as we get older, the more likely it is that we have the luck of the draw not go our way. The best news you can get is that the doctor has tested your eggs and that they're good. That means that this is unlikely to happen again.

Of course if you feel better about leaving out alcohol please do.

Clomid does not cause birth defects. I have talked about this with several experts. In the old studies that claimed to find a link, they did not correct for the fact that women on Clomid are typically older, have PCOS or other health issues that themselves cause a higher rate of birth defects, were on other medication that may cause birth defects (such as progesterone supplements), and Clomid is more likely to cause twinning and multiples also have a higher rate of birth defects. When scientists corrected for those things, they found that Clomid doesn't cause increased rates of birth defects and it was a false correlation. Unfortunately, when dealing with things online, some sources don't always keep their information up to date but I believe Clomid to be one of the safest medications there is. But of course it's up to you if you want to drop it out of the mix.

Just for your peace of mind in future pregnancies and for anyone else reading this, measuring 3 days behind does not indicate a baby has a chromosomal abnormality. This isn't a quibble, I just know that people do stress about measurements and it isn't indicative of anything being amiss - this was just a coincidence. I don't want you to stress over a minor measurement discrepancy in future pregnancies. :heart:

Thank you atomic. Can you give me advice where to go from here? I’m still taking prenatals +dha, folate and probiotics, and the one thing I already stopped was vitamin D. can you tell me what to keep taking?
Also, what should I do to start E4d, once at positive opk? I do only have one thing of 50 mg clomid left and I don’t know if I should try without the first 2 weeks after bleeding stops then maybe try clomid the next month?
You don’t think my body could sustain a pregnancy that soon after or where you suggesting asking the dr who does D&E? My OB said it was fine but l will also ask the other dr. Doesn’t the first egg after miscarriage sway girl?
Thanks


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[atomic sagebrush]

Drop probiotics, go to 3x a week on prenatals and DHA for now (we need to wean off these gradually and not just stop them)

Yes please wait till your first bleed (or longer if doc advises) to do the Clomid and do NOT waste the Clomid that first month or even two.

I want you to see what the doctor says AFTER the D and E. Most docs will advise waiting till after the first bleed, and if the D and E doesn't go smoothly they may want you to wait 2 cycles. It doesn't matter if the first egg after a loss sways girl if your body can't get and stay pregnant. Most of the time it's fine to try again soon, but with a second trimester loss and a D and E, your uterus will have just been thru an invasive procedure after a pregnancy (which takes its own toll) and your body may just not be able to cooperate with a sway plan here. We need to balance what's best for swaying with making sure we aren't setting you up for a chemical or early loss if your body just "thinks" that it's too soon. :heart:

[jenn1112]

Drop probiotics, go to 3x a week on prenatals and DHA for now (we need to wean off these gradually and not just stop them)

Yes please wait till your first bleed (or longer if doc advises) to do the Clomid and do NOT waste the Clomid that first month or even two.

I want you to see what the doctor says AFTER the D and E. Most docs will advise waiting till after the first bleed, and if the D and E doesn't go smoothly they may want you to wait 2 cycles. It doesn't matter if the first egg after a loss sways girl if your body can't get and stay pregnant. Most of the time it's fine to try again soon, but with a second trimester loss and a D and E, your uterus will have just been thru an invasive procedure after a pregnancy (which takes its own toll) and your body may just not be able to cooperate with a sway plan here. We need to balance what's best for swaying with making sure we aren't setting you up for a chemical or early loss if your body just "thinks" that it's too soon. :heart:

Thank you, this is helpful. I’m thinking of just doing Ivf with the pgs testing. I’m too scared to go through this again. If I go through with that then I would continue the prenatals/probiotics? Or does doing that add to more boys being fertilized or does it even matter when it happening in the lab. I’m sure it’s rare that there would be no heathy girl embryos but have you heard of that happening?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes in that case you'd continue the supplements. No benefit for pink has ever been shown to stopping prenatals when doing IVF.

Yes, it's possible for a couple to get only boys but it's believed to be just the luck of the draw. If you have unlimited money for cycling everyone would get both boys and girls eventually, but it doesn't always happen in every cycle, and since most people can only afford one or two cycles, having an unlucky cycle or two where they get only boys can be something that does happen and should be mentally prepared for.

[jenn1112]

Yes in that case you'd continue the supplements. No benefit for pink has ever been shown to stopping prenatals when doing IVF.

Yes, it's possible for a couple to get only boys but it's believed to be just the luck of the draw. If you have unlimited money for cycling everyone would get both boys and girls eventually, but it doesn't always happen in every cycle, and since most people can only afford one or two cycles, having an unlucky cycle or two where they get only boys can be something that does happen and should be mentally prepared for.

Thank you, we could only afford one round. Does exercise or Le diet help with more female embryos? Or will nothing help sway with IVF?


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[Throwaway_panther]

I know in the IVF world, women wanting girls have their husbands take Olive Leaf Extract for hopefully more girls. But I have seen a LOT of women expecting all of one gender get a split though, and even MORE of the gender they want! I know I got a 50/50 split in two cycles. Our healthy embryos were WAAAY in a different ratio, but that was a result of my husband's sperm issues... (so definitely look into getting that tested before cycling!!)

Just to add some other things -- in regards to your angel DD, if you never tested the fetal tissue, it's still possible she passed of a chromosomal abnormality. NIPT only test for a few :( I was disappointed to learn myself. And there are many chromosomal abnormalities that can occasionally make it into the second trimester (Trisomy 8, for example, can occasionally make it into the second trimester, although that affects predominantly males -- we had TWO of these embryos in cycling which we were told was uncommon, and that it's possible we had some of these losses). I only mention this to stress: as AWFUL as it is to say, a chromosomal loss in the second trimester is, as atomic said, a fluke. Mutations and abnormalities are still the most common explanation for losses. And different things to help egg and sperm quality can help affect this for the future (my husband and I can attest for this clearly!). Second trimester losses can often be more difficult things to deal with -- cord issues, placental issues, clotting, immune responses, etc. Not having these but instead be dealing with a chromosomal issue that slipped by could warrant success in the future, even though it's scary to plan future pregnancies! And IVF with PGS would definitely help mitigate this.

I'm thinking of you and hoping you recover as quickly as possible from your upcoming procedure <3

[jenn1112]

I know in the IVF world, women wanting girls have their husbands take Olive Leaf Extract for hopefully more girls. But I have seen a LOT of women expecting all of one gender get a split though, and even MORE of the gender they want! I know I got a 50/50 split in two cycles. Our healthy embryos were WAAAY in a different ratio, but that was a result of my husband's sperm issues... (so definitely look into getting that tested before cycling!!)

Just to add some other things -- in regards to your angel DD, if you never tested the fetal tissue, it's still possible she passed of a chromosomal abnormality. NIPT only test for a few :( I was disappointed to learn myself. And there are many chromosomal abnormalities that can occasionally make it into the second trimester (Trisomy 8, for example, can occasionally make it into the second trimester, although that affects predominantly males -- we had TWO of these embryos in cycling which we were told was uncommon, and that it's possible we had some of these losses). I only mention this to stress: as AWFUL as it is to say, a chromosomal loss in the second trimester is, as atomic said, a fluke. Mutations and abnormalities are still the most common explanation for losses. And different things to help egg and sperm quality can help affect this for the future (my husband and I can attest for this clearly!). Second trimester losses can often be more difficult things to deal with -- cord issues, placental issues, clotting, immune responses, etc. Not having these but instead be dealing with a chromosomal issue that slipped by could warrant success in the future, even though it's scary to plan future pregnancies! And IVF with PGS would definitely help mitigate this.

I'm thinking of you and hoping you recover as quickly as possible from your upcoming procedure <3

Thank you so much! This is so helpful, I’d love as much info on it as possible! I will start having my hubby take OLE...do you have any idea on how much to take?
I am concerned my DD might have also been a rare chromosomal also, that’s what the OB thinks I believe. I’m not so worried we would go through all this expense and not get healthy embryos or only boys. Maybe I could ask the dr for more meds to make more eggs?
Can you tell me about your experience? How many eggs did you get from retrieval? How many healthy embryos and the gender?
Also, do you know if the LE diet or exercise helps with IVF at all or it’s just Random genders?
Thank you



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[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you, we could only afford one round. Does exercise or Le diet help with more female embryos? Or will nothing help sway with IVF?


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While it's fine to take the OLE if you'd like, personally I think it does nothing, and people simply take it till they luck their way into a cycle where they by chance happen to get more XX than XY. Then everyone declares "well it took 2-3-4-10 cycles to work, but it did eventually get me more XX!" but until there is a blind side by side study done we'll never know if it does or not and since I've seen people take it 1 month and get more XX and people take it 6 months before finally getting XX and yet everyone still says "oh yes this totally works" I am not buying it.

You CANNOT sway with IVF. Everything about swaying pink is meant to lower fertility. But with IVF you need to max your fertility as much as possible. They can't coexist and you need to be on a diet that is more beneficial to fertility such as a South Beach or Protein Power Plan kind of diet where you're eating a good deal of healthy protein, good carbs, and healtty fat. Don't do Atkins or keto unless your doctor recommends it, you want a diet that's about 30% carbs, 30% fat, 40% protein.

[atomic sagebrush]

Re rare chromosomal abnormalities, many times OB's will tell people that as a way to assure them it's not their fault. But the OB doesn't know why you had a loss, it's all just guessing, and I feel like you are putting so much emphasis on both losses being chromosomal when we actually do not have any way to know that. I don't want you to pick a plan of action based on something a doctor said out of turn trying to be reassuring to you. The chances are very high these were two totally unrelated losses, just terrible terrible luck, and that they won't happen again. This doesn't mean you are immune to losses, of course - while lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place it is certainly possible to have been struck by lightning and get hit by a bus 10 years later as well - just that I don't want you to assume anything based on things we cannot ever really know.

You can't ask the doc for more meds to make more eggs. If that was a thing, they'd already do that for everyone. More meds can equal poor quality eggs that can't be fertilized or will arrest very early on in development.

You have to go in understanding that you CAN go through all this expense and have no healthy girl embryos. it's definitely possible. I hesitate for anyone who can only do one cycle to go IVF - while it is possible to be a one hit wonder, it happens all the time, you just have to go in with your eyes wide open and know that it's possible to have to walk away from the table with no money and no baby.

I think I forgot to mention exercise...while moderate exercise is beneficial for IVF success you need to take care not to go to the extremes of gender swaying exercise or to have your BMI drop below 21.

[jenn1112]

Re rare chromosomal abnormalities, many times OB's will tell people that as a way to assure them it's not their fault. But the OB doesn't know why you had a loss, it's all just guessing, and I feel like you are putting so much emphasis on both losses being chromosomal when we actually do not have any way to know that. I don't want you to pick a plan of action based on something a doctor said out of turn trying to be reassuring to you. The chances are very high these were two totally unrelated losses, just terrible terrible luck, and that they won't happen again. This doesn't mean you are immune to losses, of course - while lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place it is certainly possible to have been struck by lightning and get hit by a bus 10 years later as well - just that I don't want you to assume anything based on things we cannot ever really know.

You can't ask the doc for more meds to make more eggs. If that was a thing, they'd already do that for everyone. More meds can equal poor quality eggs that can't be fertilized or will arrest very early on in development.

You have to go in understanding that you CAN go through all this expense and have no healthy girl embryos. it's definitely possible. I hesitate for anyone who can only do one cycle to go IVF - while it is possible to be a one hit wonder, it happens all the time, you just have to go in with your eyes wide open and know that it's possible to have to walk away from the table with no money and no baby.

I think I forgot to mention exercise...while moderate exercise is beneficial for IVF success you need to take care not to go to the extremes of gender swaying exercise or to have your BMI drop below 21.

Thank you so much, this is great info. So do you think my odds are better if a healthy girl swaying or doing the ivf? Or I’m sure you’ll say that you just can’t predict that outcome. Just wondering if you’ve Had a feeling one way or the other. I think we are both pretty fertile and Just had crappy luck. I’m just terrified of having another chromosomal issue or something wrong with another baby that will affect my family forever.

[Georgia_Peach]

Sorry to jump in here but I feel I have to.
The process of IVF is long. There are months of testing on both you and your partner. The questions your asking can really only be answered by these tests and even then not 100% (Eg your AMH number , your age and hobbies sperm analysis). You will never know how many eggs you'll get nor how many will make it to day 5 and then that are left healthy female until you try.
As for chromosomal issues... you cannot ever rule that out without the PGS testing.
Swaying is a great option.. but you will never know baby is chromosomal perfect until the harmony test or what have you during pregnancy.
We've done both options successfully. I had my daughter through swaying and lost another daughter at 20 weeks after successfully swaying. It's consumed the last 2 years of my.life.
After that we did IVF. Had a very successful round and got lucky. 21 eggs fertalized, 11 frozen. Only 1 boy embryo the 6 rest female. I am now pregnant with my daughter. BUT I do have a high AMH, no other issues and hubby sperm is perfect. This makes a difference but There a no guarantee on genders at all.

it was obviously a huge gamble for us and wasn't easy mental, physically or financially on us. It is a lot. It's a long road.

You and your partner need to both be on board and be completely ready and serious that is the right decision for your family.

Best of luck no matter what you decide. [emoji4]


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[jenn1112]

Sorry to jump in here but I feel I have to.
The process of IVF is long. There are months of testing on both you and your partner. The questions your asking can really only be answered by these tests and even then not 100% (Eg your AMH number , your age and hobbies sperm analysis). You will never know how many eggs you'll get nor how many will make it to day 5 and then that are left healthy female until you try.
As for chromosomal issues... you cannot ever rule that out without the PGS testing.
Swaying is a great option.. but you will never know baby is chromosomal perfect until the harmony test or what have you during pregnancy.
We've done both options successfully. I had my daughter through swaying and lost another daughter at 20 weeks after successfully swaying. It's consumed the last 2 years of my.life.
After that we did IVF. Had a very successful round and got lucky. 21 eggs fertalized, 11 frozen. Only 1 boy embryo the 6 rest female. I am now pregnant with my daughter. BUT I do have a high AMH, no other issues and hubby sperm is perfect. This makes a difference but There a no guarantee on genders at all.

it was obviously a huge gamble for us and wasn't easy mental, physically or financially on us. It is a lot. It's a long road.

You and your partner need to both be on board and be completely ready and serious that is the right decision for your family.

Best of luck no matter what you decide. [emoji4]


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Thank you so much mamabird, this is so helpful. I’m definitely not taking this lightly and will have a better idea if we are going to go through with this after meeting with the RE. I know he already tested my eggs but I have no idea if that is my AMH? He just said my eggs were a 3 and he likes anything over a 2.
How long did the ivf process take from start to finish...your first Meeting with the dr to getting pregnant?

Did your hubby take Olive leaf extract? You were lucky in getting that many females! Were they all healthy? What was your diet like leading up to ivf?


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[Georgia_Peach]

I changed my diet and supplements 3 months prior to starting the retrieval. I recommend reading the book "it starts with the egg" to start.
My husband dis not take anything except a multi vitamin. The actual.process is like one month of testing and monitoring and then months on birth control (in some clinics) and then the meds to do retrieval. Then you need to wait a cycle to do pgs and get results then do the FET. It's about 3 to 5 months quickest I'd say. I had 11 frozen embryos frozen on day 5 from 21 fertilized. Only 8 were considered "normal". 6 females 1 male. We transferred 2 females and am now 24 weeks pregnant with one. Again.. We got lucky as most 1st FET don't take even if you have optimal situations.

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[jenn1112]

I changed my diet and supplements 3 months prior to starting the retrieval. I recommend reading the book "it starts with the egg" to start.
My husband dis not take anything except a multi vitamin. The actual.process is like one month of testing and monitoring and then months on birth control (in some clinics) and then the meds to do retrieval. Then you need to wait a cycle to do pgs and get results then do the FET. It's about 3 to 5 months quickest I'd say. I had 11 frozen embryos frozen on day 5 from 21 fertilized. Only 8 were considered "normal". 6 females 1 male. We transferred 2 females and am now 24 weeks pregnant with one. Again.. We got lucky as most 1st FET don't take even if you have optimal situations.

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Thank you, I’ll definitely check out the book. Do you mind me asking how old you and your hubby are? I’ll be 36 in 4 months so that worries me since my eggs are older. Also, I forgot to ask did both of y’all cut out alcohol or processed foods before ivf


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[Georgia_Peach]

We are 33 and yes no alcohol at all.
Thank you, I’ll definitely check out the book. Do you mind me asking how old you and your hubby are? I’ll be 36 in 4 months so that worries me since my eggs are older. Also, I forgot to ask did both of y’all cut out alcohol or processed foods before ivf


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[jenn1112]

We are 33 and yes no alcohol at all.

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Thank you. I read about something called ICSI (where Sperm is chosen and Injected into egg) and it favors more girls vs normal ivf favors more boys conceived.
Do you know which one y’all did?


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[Georgia_Peach]

I think that's what most do now. That's what we did but they tell you it doesn't favour more girls. It's all a gamble.

Thank you. I read about something called ICSI (where Sperm is chosen and Injected into egg) and it favors more girls vs normal ivf favors more boys conceived.
Do you know which one y’all did?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you so much, this is great info. So do you think my odds are better if a healthy girl swaying or doing the ivf? Or I’m sure you’ll say that you just can’t predict that outcome. Just wondering if you’ve Had a feeling one way or the other. I think we are both pretty fertile and Just had crappy luck. I’m just terrified of having another chromosomal issue or something wrong with another baby that will affect my family forever.

Yeah I just can't know that. I wish I could but the pretesting will be very helpful in letting us know what kind of outcome you can expect.

I do want to point out (sorry I feel like I'm doing a lot of pointing out here!) that things can still go wrong even with IVF. There are things they can't test for and don't know and just in the interest of going in with your eyes open, do be aware of that. Things like autism they don't know what even causes them and they can't test for them. Some people think that for IVF to succeed all they need is the PGD testing but that just isn't the case; things can go wrong with the pregnancy (like SCH, water breaking early, preemie, etc) or the baby can have issues that are not testable-for.

What the IVF gets you is a guarantee of gender. That's the best way to think of it. A guarantee of gender and a reduced chance of some genetic disorders. But it's not a guarantee of conception or a perfectly healthy baby.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think that's what most do now. That's what we did but they tell you it doesn't favour more girls. It's all a gamble.


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ICSI is used for all PGD conceptions because otherwise the DNA of the sperm can confuse the results of the PGD test. It is not at all reliable for choosing gender as the difference was very minor (like 1% different than natural conception)

[atomic sagebrush]

Also, there are a couple things in the "it starts with an egg" book that I'm not crazy about so Jenn please feel free to run anything u plan to take by me and I'll explain why/why not I"m in favor of them.

[jenn1112]

Yeah I just can't know that. I wish I could but the pretesting will be very helpful in letting us know what kind of outcome you can expect.

I do want to point out (sorry I feel like I'm doing a lot of pointing out here!) that things can still go wrong even with IVF. There are things they can't test for and don't know and just in the interest of going in with your eyes open, do be aware of that. Things like autism they don't know what even causes them and they can't test for them. Some people think that for IVF to succeed all they need is the PGD testing but that just isn't the case; things can go wrong with the pregnancy (like SCH, water breaking early, preemie, etc) or the baby can have issues that are not testable-for.

What the IVF gets you is a guarantee of gender. That's the best way to think of it. A guarantee of gender and a reduced chance of some genetic disorders. But it's not a guarantee of conception or a perfectly healthy baby.

Thank you so much. Yes, I understand this now, at first I think I just thought it would be a perfectly healthy baby after the testing and now I’m seeing nothing is ever guaranteed. So just another thing to stress about [emoji854]


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[jenn1112]

Also, there are a couple things in the "it starts with an egg" book that I'm not crazy about so Jenn please feel free to run anything u plan to take by me and I'll explain why/why not I"m in favor of them.

Oh bummer, I just ordered it the other day but it’s not here yet. I’ll read through it and ask you about anything I plan on doing to see if you agree. Thank you so much!


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[atomic sagebrush]

It's a good book, just that there are some supplements that have risks and side effects that are overlooked by the author. :) Just run em by me, that's whta I'm here for.

[jenn1112]

It's a good book, just that there are some supplements that have risks and side effects that are overlooked by the author. [emoji4] Just run em by me, that's whta I'm here for.

Thank you. I’m just taking prenatals, folate, vitamin D and probiotics and stool softeners when needed and cut back to 1 cup of coffee. My husband is taking a multi vitamin and coQ10 which was recommended in the book. Does that sound fine? Should I be taking coQ10 too? I also read in the book that melatonin helps egg quality when going through ivf, should I take that? I thought about having DH add in the OLE after I start the ivf cycle but I know you’ve said you don’t really believe that helps.


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yep that's one of the ones that I DO NOT LIKE AT ALL - Melatonin. Stay away from melatonin unless you are doing IVF and are going to have a frozen transfer only, and will NOT be pregnant in the month of egg retrieval.

Melatonin has been shown to cause/contribute to developmental delays when taken during pregnancy. We do not know how long the effects last, so you can't just take it up till O or BFP because not only may it stay in your system longer than that, but additionaly you HAVE to wean off it because your body uses it during early pregnancy. So there is really no way to both be absolutely off of melatonin when you're pregnant but still have given yourself adequate time to wean off and have it leave your body before you're pregnant. So while it can potentially help with egg quality, I don't find it acceptibly safe for anyone other than those doing egg retrieval, then freezing for later cycles. Anyone who will be preggo in the same month they take the melatonin, should NOT take melatonin.

I don't really think the OLE works but it doesn't seem to hurt anything so I think it's fine if you want to give your husband that.

Yes do take coq10 200-400 mg and they may hve you increase this. Take till BFP and then gradually wean off.

Everything else looking great.

[jenn1112]

Yep that's one of the ones that I DO NOT LIKE AT ALL - Melatonin. Stay away from melatonin unless you are doing IVF and are going to have a frozen transfer only, and will NOT be pregnant in the month of egg retrieval.

Melatonin has been shown to cause/contribute to developmental delays when taken during pregnancy. We do not know how long the effects last, so you can't just take it up till O or BFP because not only may it stay in your system longer than that, but additionaly you HAVE to wean off it because your body uses it during early pregnancy. So there is really no way to both be absolutely off of melatonin when you're pregnant but still have given yourself adequate time to wean off and have it leave your body before you're pregnant. So while it can potentially help with egg quality, I don't find it acceptibly safe for anyone other than those doing egg retrieval, then freezing for later cycles. Anyone who will be preggo in the same month they take the melatonin, should NOT take melatonin.

I don't really think the OLE works but it doesn't seem to hurt anything so I think it's fine if you want to give your husband that.

Yes do take coq10 200-400 mg and they may hve you increase this. Take till BFP and then gradually wean off.

Everything else looking great.

Thank you! So I take the coq10 too? My husband is the only one taking now.
I just won’t take the melatonin...I am doing FET though since we are doing Pgs testing.

Also, my doctors office called and said my thyroid levels are high (4.26) and they are putting me on a low dose thyroid medication. Do you have any info on this, they didn’t tell me anything. I have been very very tired and no energy and felt like I gained weight very fast when I got pregnant...could it be from hypothyroidism?




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[Throwaway_panther]

Thank you. I read about something called ICSI (where Sperm is chosen and Injected into egg) and it favors more girls vs normal ivf favors more boys conceived.
Do you know which one y’all did?


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Yup, those are all classic hypo signs. A normal level by updated norms is roughly a TSH of .5-3, and levels for TTC should be under 2.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes you take the Coq10 and if you can get ubiquinol form of that, it may be better.

I can't tell if those symptoms are from pregnancy or your thyroid, but what I do know is that it's GREAT they've figured this out and can now medicate you. Thyroid issues can cause harm during pregnancy and it's imperative that those are treated. it sounds like you're in good hands! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and please do run ALL supplements past not only your doctor but also the pharmacist who is filling your prescription. Many supplements will interact with medication and should not be combined so it may be that some of the things many others take will not be appropriate for you.

You will also need to consult about iodine in your prenatals as not everyone with thyroid problems can take iodine.

[jenn1112]

Sorry to jump in here but I feel I have to.
The process of IVF is long. There are months of testing on both you and your partner. The questions your asking can really only be answered by these tests and even then not 100% (Eg your AMH number , your age and hobbies sperm analysis). You will never know how many eggs you'll get nor how many will make it to day 5 and then that are left healthy female until you try.
As for chromosomal issues... you cannot ever rule that out without the PGS testing.
Swaying is a great option.. but you will never know baby is chromosomal perfect until the harmony test or what have you during pregnancy.
We've done both options successfully. I had my daughter through swaying and lost another daughter at 20 weeks after successfully swaying. It's consumed the last 2 years of my.life.
After that we did IVF. Had a very successful round and got lucky. 21 eggs fertalized, 11 frozen. Only 1 boy embryo the 6 rest female. I am now pregnant with my daughter. BUT I do have a high AMH, no other issues and hubby sperm is perfect. This makes a difference but There a no guarantee on genders at all.

it was obviously a huge gamble for us and wasn't easy mental, physically or financially on us. It is a lot. It's a long road.

You and your partner need to both be on board and be completely ready and serious that is the right decision for your family.

Best of luck no matter what you decide. [emoji4]


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Hi mama bird, we are about to start injections for ivf and my dr said he thinks I’d probably get 20 eggs...but Pretty sure he means total and not mature eggs.
I know you said you had 21 fertilized but how many did they get from you after retrieval? Or were all 21 of yours mature?


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