So overwhelmed and would love guidance on the newest/most updated way to sway girl

[ForeverMyLove]

Hi, I have read and read as many posts and threads as I can on swaying girl but I am extremely overwhelmed and would greatly appreciate if someone could give me the most current facts/supplements/diet/attempts. I have read someone about one attempt, does that mean you only BD one time the whole month? I also read to avoid cereals, but would love to learn more about anything else. Does a low PH help at all, maybe a little?

Are taking prenatal (I did with my other three -2 boys and 1 girl) vitamins not a good idea when swaying girl? I just worry about the repercussions of not taking it if I do conceive. What is e4d and how does it work? I read to stay away from potatoes, red meat, bananas, tomatoes and sticking to low sodium diet is helpful. I track my cycle with temp and CM and I have used an OPK before with my previous pregnancies. Is OPK a good idea and when is the best time to try? What supplements would my husband take and what should he do? Hot shower? Frequent release on his own, etc...

Thank you to whoever is taking the time to read this and helping me out! So grateful!

[atomic sagebrush]

This site is meant in part as a clearinghouse for info on all sway tactics so there's a lot here. But that's why I'm here, to help you navigate it all. :)

Here are the things that really truly work.

LE Diet longer than 12 weeks plus fiber, coffee, and alcohol and avoiding fortified foods and vitamins.
Cardio exercise 60 consecutive minutes a day, 4-7 days a week (more days is better)
One attempt (in the fertile window O-3 thru O Day, NOT all month!)
Clomid or Femara if you can get them
For hubby, smoking and jogging/biking
Possibly Olive Leaf Extract and soy milk for hubby, but i"m less sold on these

It is really really very hard for me to believe much in pH at all due to having seen sooooo many opposites with it and since our results show it does absoltely nothing, but anything is possible. If you must do pH methods, drop them BEFORE adding attempts because one attempt really does work.

Skipping prenatal is best for pink sways. You take folic acid or folate only, which is the only nutrient proven to help prevent birth defects preconceptin. Start prenatals at BFP. This comes straight from the experts at ACOG you do NOT need to take prenatals prior to conception to have a healthy pregnancy and even during pregnancy it is unlikely they're necessary for anyone who has a reasonably balanced diet.

You don't need to stay away from potassium foods and I have a full explanation here: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/62533-le-diet-faq-2-mineral-madness-edition.html IN this same thread there's also all the reasons why eating low sodium is not necessary. With my daughter, I ate tons of potatoes and sodium after getting my 4th boy limiting them. We have all but given up on sodium restrictions and our results are higher now than they've ever been before.

I like you guys to do OPK and have one attempt at first positive, but if you want to do timing, you'll want your attempt to fall 2-3 days prior to O. If your cycle is regular this is easy enough, but be aware your cycle may change when swaying. If you do want to do timing but have irregular cycle let me know and I'll walk you through how to do that.

I woudl not have you start off with e4d, please start off with one attempt and then we'll go to e4d after 2-3 months if you don't conceive with one attempt. E4d is just regular unprotected attempts every 4 days (and you can count the e4d either every 72 or every 96 hours depending on your preference) and then eventually you'll catch the egg.

I can't tell what supps your husband should take without a personalized plan as we have a lot of things that factor into that. The only two I believe even do anything are OLE, soy milk, and possibly fiber for him but I'm not even sold on those, and most of our hubbies don't do any of those things yet we still get good results. Smoking and jogging/biking have been shown in studies to sway pink so I do suggest those (but he shouldn't START smoking for a sway, only if it's something he does already)

Neither abstain nor FR has really worked, but you can try one or the other if you prefer. Abstain is men under 35 only, anyone can do daily release, both for 7-10 days before one attempt and please drop this before adding attempts.

Hot shower is up to you, I don't feel that it's been proven to do anything and may cut odds of conception but a lot of people like to include this.

[ForeverMyLove]

Wow! Thank you SO much atomic sagebrush for answering my questions and helping me through this process. You have been so helpful and it's nice to communicate with someone as knowledgeable as you. I do have a few follow up questions if you don't mind clarifying.
1. For the fiber, are capsules/powder the best or through food or both?
2. When you mentioned, "(in the fertile window O-3 thru O Day, NOT all month), do you mean do one attempt 3 days before ovulation or 3 days after? And for hubby, he can release daily if he wants (NOT BD unless with protection) 7-10 days before the one attempt, is that correct, unless we have tried for awhile and moving to e4d?
3. As far as PH, when you say "drop them BEFORE adding attempts," do you mean don't check your PH if you decide to more from one attempt to e4d?
4. I would choose between folate or folic acid, not both, right? Dosage ideas?
5. So thinking on the other end of the spectrum, is there any one food or foods or drinks that DO sway girl besides coffee? I read diet drinks occasionally and crystal light but I think those are related to PH so I guess not as important if you aren't doing PH. And do you have a thread or link to any LE diet ideas?
6. For OPK, if it is done, the one attempt should be when its positive or if you aren't doing an OPK, then the one attempt should be 2-3 days before O? It sounds like OPK is more reliable? What about the day before the positive OPK? Any positive results related to that...I guess that one is harder to do if you are only doing one attempt. I think that worked on my daughter but I wasn't swaying and trying more often and it just worked out.
7. What does OLE do for hubby? LR help at all? Cranberry? Any supplements lower glucose levels (of course along with LE diet and skipping a possible meal or snacks) for me?

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!! I greatly appreciate your help, time, guidance and advice!

[atomic sagebrush]

1) Whichever you prefer and that is easy for you to get wherever you are (so not some exotic thing you have to order online. I like you guys to take fiber supps in addition to what you get via food though.

2)You can have your one attempt 3 days before O, 2 days before, one day before OR on O Day. The important thing is just one attempt during that time period, not the day of the attempt. O-2 and O-1 are better chances of conception. O-3 is the worst chance, O Day is somewhere in between.

3)No I mean drop all the stuff that doesn't work (timing, jellies/douching, frequency, antihistamine) before you add attempts. Has nothing to do with checking pH, it has to do with eliminating things that don't work and cut odds of conception first before adding attempts, since one attempt really does seem to work.

4)Folate is best if you can afford it. I like you guys to take 1200-1600 mcg a day.

5)Alcohol may sway pink. I personally doubt the aspartame does anything at safe and sane doses and may even sway blue at the sky high, insanity doses some sites encourage people to use. LE Diet is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/16780-low-everything-diet-nutshell-version.html and LE Diet FAQ is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/24628-le-diet-faq.html

6)If you believe in timing, and your cycle stays regular, you can have attempt 2-3 days before O (I prefer 2, since it's better chances of conception). But your cycle may NOT stay regular - it's quite common when swaying - so it's really very hard to predict 2-3 days before O, or the day before pos OPK because you just can't know when that's going to be. That's the reason why we use the OPK, so we know when to have our one attempt at a point in time that is a good chance of conception even with a shifting ovulation.

7)OLE we honestly don't know what it's meant to do. We had a doctor on here briefly who claimed to be getting good gender results with IVF rounds (more XX than XY) and it seemed to get ok results for our IVF ladies, so we tried it wiht gender sways as well. We've gotten good results with it but I have some reason to believe that the seeming good results for both IVF and swaying may be statistical quirk (and I can explain why if you'd like). It is harmless though so I keep it in the mix even tho I'm not sold on it.

LR has gotten awful results. 38% girls with it right now and I have moved away from that for everyone except a small group of people whose husbands are really young/fertile.

Cranberry hasn't worked and the OLE would replace that anyway. You can't do both cran and OLE and the OLE has seemed to work while the cran hasn't.

We have had poor results with all the herbal supplements both for conception and they don't seem to be working, either. We have a couple of supplements people with a lot of weight to spare or severe PCOS will take but I don't recommend those for the general population as they do have a lot of side effects.

[ForeverMyLove]

Wonderful! Thank you again for your detailed answers to my questions. I believe your article regarding folate said to slowly reduce it when wanting to go off of it which is what I plan to do when I get pregnant and start my prenatal (it has folic acid in it) so I would worry that the folate and folic acid would be too much. Would that be okay?

The OPK typically gives you two days before conception- I guess 24-48 hours before ovulation so I guess it could be 1 day before ovulation. So using the OPK and doing your one attempt on your positive OPK is best? And you should take the OPK twice a day so you don't miss your surge? Like one in the afternoon and one in the evening? I know the first morning urine isn't a good idea for OPK.

Any specific type of alcohol? Wine? Or does it not matter? I guess a little bit of that wouldn't hurt but I do not drink very often at all so it would just be occasional if I do add it to my sway. It is safe to conceive with alcohol in your system?

It sounds like OLE is worth trying for hubby and if it is harmless, then why not? It is just for hubby, right? Is there a specific brand you recommend? I typically look on amazon for stuff. I live in the US, too. Also, I would love to know why you think it could be statistical quirk. I find the science behind all of this fascinating.

And for hubby, he can release daily if he wants (NOT BD unless with protection) 7-10 days before the one attempt, is that correct, unless we have tried for awhile and moving to e4d? The goal is nothing for those 7-10 days before that one attempt.

Lastly, do you have a current link or list of successful sways or percentages and what they did or do you know of any current info. I trust your knowledge and guidance so the data and advice you have given me is more important and everyone does different things, etc...

I also find it so interesting that the one attempt is so effective. It is complicated -as I was reading another article you posted- but I need to learn more about the science behind it. I really like this site as you backup your explanations with science instead of just list things that should work.

Thank you for all your research and time and patience!!

Thanks so much again!

[atomic sagebrush]

can you please bump this for me?? was longer than I expected!

[ForeverMyLove]

bump

Not 100% sure how to but I think this is correct....

I copy and pasted my post, too (just in case)

Wonderful! Thank you again for your detailed answers to my questions. I believe your article regarding folate said to slowly reduce it when wanting to go off of it which is what I plan to do when I get pregnant and start my prenatal (it has folic acid in it) so I would worry that the folate and folic acid would be too much. Would that be okay?

The OPK typically gives you two days before conception- I guess 24-48 hours before ovulation so I guess it could be 1 day before ovulation. So using the OPK and doing your one attempt on your positive OPK is best? And you should take the OPK twice a day so you don't miss your surge? Like one in the afternoon and one in the evening? I know the first morning urine isn't a good idea for OPK.

Any specific type of alcohol? Wine? Or does it not matter? I guess a little bit of that wouldn't hurt but I do not drink very often at all so it would just be occasional if I do add it to my sway. It is safe to conceive with alcohol in your system?

It sounds like OLE is worth trying for hubby and if it is harmless, then why not? It is just for hubby, right? Is there a specific brand you recommend? I typically look on amazon for stuff. I live in the US, too. Also, I would love to know why you think it could be statistical quirk. I find the science behind all of this fascinating.

And for hubby, he can release daily if he wants (NOT BD unless with protection) 7-10 days before the one attempt, is that correct, unless we have tried for awhile and moving to e4d? The goal is nothing for those 7-10 days before that one attempt.

Lastly, do you have a current link or list of successful sways or percentages and what they did or do you know of any current info. I trust your knowledge and guidance so the data and advice you have given me is more important and everyone does different things, etc...

I also find it so interesting that the one attempt is so effective. It is complicated -as I was reading another article you posted- but I need to learn more about the science behind it. I really like this site as you backup your explanations with science instead of just list things that should work.

Thank you for all your research and time and patience!!

Thanks so much again

[atomic sagebrush]

1)Folate - you need to continue the folate all during the first trimester of pregnancy and only then wean off of it. You need to continue the higher amount until the baby's spinal column is formed and that does not happen till the 12th week of pregnancy. You can start taking your prenatal too, or slightly reduce folate to compensate for the amount of folic acid in the prenatal. Taking more is not believed to be harmful, you will excrete the excess.

2)OPK - yes that's right, we have found attempt at that point in time is the best chance of conception with one attempt. I like you guys to test at least 1x a day, after lunch. Some like to test twice, after lunch and then just before dinner. Yes you don't want FMU unless that is what the directions that come with your OPK say to do.

3)Alcohol - whatever you prefer. Or leave it out if you prefer that. I would not tell you guys to do anything I thought was at all unsafe, of course. We have you stop drinking at ovulation and the egg is not even attached to your body at that point.

4)OLE - yes that's what I assume, it doesn't hurt, may help. Just for hubby.

The reason I think it's just a quirk is because at first, I used it only for men who were older , who had had trouble conceiving, and who had had sperm health problems. These people may be more likely to conceive girls to start with. The results at first were very, very good. So I then started using it for more and more people and the results went down. So I think that the reasons the OLE looks like it works is because I had used it only for people who were likely "set" for more girls to begin with and once I started using it for everyone, the results dropped to about the same as the site as a whole, indicating that the OLE wasn't actually doing anything.

And at the same time I noticed that for the IVF people who used the OLE, they would have (for example) 3 cycles where they took OLE and got 50-50 every time, XX and XY (or even many times more XY than XX). Then on the (for example) 4th cycle, all of a sudden if they ended up getting many XX they would say "oh the OLE has worked" and then they have XX to transfer and stop cycling. There was no pattern to when the XX would happen, some people it happened after a month on OLE, others took 6-9 months to get many XX to transfer. This makes it look like the OLE was working, but it was simply that people took it until they finally got lucky and got lots of XX to transfer and it was really more like 50-50.

5)Yes hubby can do the daily release 7-10 days prior to the one attempt. I would suggest actually, before going to e4d, taking 1-2 months to have him do regular release (every 2-4 days) with the one attempt before doing e4d. Regular release + one attempt will boost odds of conception but it's still 1 attempt. Your decision, though.

6)Here is our link to our sway stats https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/51473-complete-pink-swaying-statistics-spreadsheet-info-links-enter-your-sway.html but please also read this essay where I go over some of my concerns about the statistics. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/43555-thoughts-stats.html Our stats can be somewhat misleading and so PLEASE do not just go through and try to do all the things that seem to have good results, because many of these numbers are in some way not what they appear to be.

7)I actually just wrote a long explanation of one attempt to someone and I'll paste it here:
in the early days of the site, no one had guessed that number of attempts swayed pink. So we were having people keep going doing things like timing, frequency, antihistamine, jelly/douche, supplements, all of which cut odds of conception hugely, and had them add attempts to get pregnant. This was our lowest success rate of the site for pink - 58%. Our results showed us that none of those things were even working - same number of people got girls with and without them.
Thankfully, we just happened by chance to keep track of the number of attempts people were doing and realized something very shocking...people who got pregnant from just one attempt had 70-75% success rate (depending on the month the number went up and down a little but in that range) This fell all the way down to 60-65% with 2 attempts, and then plummeted to 40-45% with three attempts. This was all in people who were doing tons of other things (all of which we proved were totally neutral in results, not swaying pink or blue) to sway pink and having otherwise great sways.

And in the meantime, LE Diet and exercise were clearly working! It was a huge puzzle and the only solution to the puzzle appeared to be that number of attempts was swaying strongly in some way we still do not understand.

So once I noticed that (because at that point in time we were all desperate to understand what we could possibly be doing wrong to get such terrible results!) I started having people reverse course, keep one attempt as long as possible and drop the other stuff (which again, was not working) to boost odds of conception with the one attempt. Our results IMMEDIATELY within the span of like 2 months, did a 180 and went up and up and there it has stayed since.

Long story short, one attempt has completely proven itself to me. I don't know how or why it works, but I do believe based on all that, that it DOES work. Our results have declined on one attempt over time but that is because (IMO) a LOT of people fudge on other things, start trying too soon, etc and now rely on one attempt to carry the day for them. But having seen that history I still maintain (and likely always will unless I get some hard data disproving it) that one attempt is best for pink.

Now, e4d is what I consider to be one attempt. But the thing is we don't know how or why one attempt even works. And we don't have the same quality of data on e4d to prove to me that it is really as shizztastic as the one attempt is. So, I don't trust the e4d anywhere near as much as I do the one attempt and so I can't in good conscience have you guys start off with e4d except for the handful of people for whom that makes the most sense, of course).

As it sits here and now based on 10 years of results and observations I believe one attempt is more proven reliable than e4d is and thus that is why I recommend starting off with one atttempt and only going to e4d after at least 2 months with one attempt. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

OH ha ha LOL I see what happened - I thought there were TWO posts of questions but there was really just the same one posted 2x (which is fine, I just had thought the post was a lot longer than it was!) Thanks so much for your patience!!

[ForeverMyLove]

THANK YOU SO MUCH! So informative and I greatly appreciate your time.

I apologize as I forgot to mention that those two questions I asked in the private message could have be answered in the forum post. I forgot to ask you them on this forum post. I read that its easiest for you to respond through here verses private messages so I am so sorry about that.

So I am still confused on the regular release part. I am probably reading to much into it, but the "prior to" is throwing me off. Does that mean hubby should abstain for 7-10 days before day O? Also, with "taking 1-2 months to have him do regular release (every 2-4 days) with the one attempt before doing e4d," does that mean he should release every 2-4 days until 0 day? Maybe keep it 4 days prior to O day? I know abstaining and FR don't do much for sway but not sure what hubby should do.

With the one attempt, do you want to still do shallow release, no orgasm for DW and jump and dump or anything else? Wasn't sure if these made a difference at all.

And what dosage should hubby take for OLE? I am not sure if I will have him use it as your data/research was very interesting but if it is harmless and may work, I might include it as the one and only supplement.

Also, I forgot to ask about vitamin D. After having my 3rd child, my vitamin d was low so my doctor had me take 4000IU one day and 6000IU the other and keep alternating. My levels are better but I am still taking the supplement to keep my levels from dropping. Should I stop for a little while during swaying or decrease the amount?

As far as the LE diet. I have been reading all the links you provided me with and had a few questions.

Are salads okay? They are high in nutrients so I wasn't sure if they were good or bad to eat. Also, my mom ate a lot of low fat cottage cheese when she was pregnant with my sister and I, is it good to eat?

I am also confused on the protein portion of the diet. It isn't a good idea to eat a lot of protein? I think I read it just adds up quickly but should I be focusing on more white carbs like rice? pasta? white breads? Any sauce or are tomato based ones bad? And I guess my ice-cream I have after dinner each night would not be a good idea? LOL. Peanut butter?

Thank you so much!

[atomic sagebrush]

1)No need to apologize, I just have to request the things that are easiest for me - no way for you guys to know, if I didn't ask! :)

2)Prior to means before. And not O day, but the day of attempt (wwhenever you plan for that to happen)

Yes, regular release means for him to just ejaculate (on his own or with you, with a condom) roughly every 2-4 days. YOu do not need to have that come out a certain number of days before ovulation (and in fact you shouldn't try, since it makes no difference, will be super stressful, and probably won't work out anyway)

3)Shallow release has never been proven to help a sway and severely cuts odds of conception, so I prefer you guys skip that totally. No orgasm may theoretically help but hasn't been proven, so I leave that at your discretion. Jump and Dump has seemed to add a little something in our results so that is something I do suggest as a viable sway tactic if you want to try it. most of us are doing J and D after 5 minutes as a compromise to hopefully boost chances of conception.

4)500-1000 mg dry leaf daily (If he's big and tall, try the higher dose, smaller guys use the lesser dose, and it's prob. best to start off with lower and then see how he tolerates that before going to 1000). If using liquid, use the dose on the bottle because the liquids vary by their formulation and I can't give a blanket dose for those.

5)I would reduce the dose of D you're taking to 3x a week maintenance dose.

6)Salads are fine and in fact an LE mainstay. We originally started off thinking "well maybe nutrients in fruit and veg sway" but it has been proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's protein, fat, calories, and then highly fortified foods and multivitamins that sway and things like fruit and veg really don't. We're eating more fruit and veg than ever and our results are better than ever (by far!)

7)Low fat cottage cheese is fine for anyone on standard LE Diet. Many are on the alternate diet and on that version of LE , you don't eat skim or part skim dairy.

8)YOu want to eat enough protein to get and stay pregnant but not so much that you are building muscle and swaying blue. This is about 40-50 g protein for most people. People on the alternate diet bump up to 50-60 g protein (and fat). The protein and fat in fruits and vegetables are free, you don't count the small amounts of protein and fat in them. Low carb vegetables are free and unlimited, have as much as you want, don't count anything in them.

[ForeverMyLove]

Great! Thanks so much! It is all making sense to me. I so appreciate all your help and time and patience.

1. So it sounds like hubby can release every 2-4 days or longer before the one attempt. No picking certain days or trying to do a schedule. There is no time period he needs to NOT release before the one attempt. But probably not over doing it.

2. Does the alternate diet eliminate all dairy or just low fat dairy? Is that better for sway?

3. I will definitely look up what kind of veggies are low carb to do with the LE Diet. Thank you.

Thanks again for answering all my questions.

[atomic sagebrush]

1)Yes!

2)Only skim and part skim dairy. Full fat is fine on the alternate diet. Yes, for those who need to be on the alternate diet, it is better for their sway. For those who need to be on the other diet, they can have either in the limits for the day..

3)Any veg that isnt' sweet or starchy is low carb.

[ForeverMyLove]

Thanks again! I read that dairy used to be popular for swaying girl? Is that still true or does it not sway or make a difference?
Also, do I need to stay away from tomatoes, red meat, bananas and potatoes.? I remember reading that you had potatoes and bananas when you were swaying and it didn’t make a difference, is that true? What about the other foods?
Thanks!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, dairy has a reputation for being pink friendly. Some people believe it, others don't. I got 4 boys with dairy and taking calcium supplements, it is hard for me to believe it, and I gave it all up to get my girl (which I did, with the lowest dairy/calcium intake I've ever had in my life.) The best study ever done on maternal preconception diet and gender found that moms who went on to conceive boys had higher intake of ALL nutrients, including calcium. I have more indepth explanation of all this here: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/62533-le-diet-faq-2-mineral-madness-edition.html But I understand it's hard for some people to give up on the idea so I allow you guys to take calcium/magnesium supplements, but urge you to only have dairy in the limits of the LE Diet and DO NOT treat dairy as an all you can eat food that will make you have daughters. because dairy is loaded with tons and tons of other nutrients and too much dairy will sway blue for that reason.

In that link I posted for you, there's an explanation of why it is fine to have potatoes, bananas, tomatoes on LE Diet. No food sways pink or blue, it's the overall nutrient content of your diet that matters and all those foods can fit in just fine in a girl-friendly diet.

Red meat, most people do choose to skip and in fact many people will go fully vegetarian. You don't have to, but it makes it much easier to stick to the diet if you do, since meat has a lot of protein in it.

[ForeverMyLove]

Thank you! Yes, that definitely makes sense about the nutrients. I appreciate all your help.

[ForeverMyLove]

Atomic, I just talked to my friend and she is apart of a gender swaying group on Facebook and she said it seems (as I am sure you are aware) a lot of people strongly believe in LR swaying girl. They take it and hubby and they keep posting that their numbers of successful sways are raising because of it. Isn't it unsafe for women ttc? And hasn't had good results with hubby taking it? Why are people still taking it and believe in it so much? My husband just turned 33 so still young and healthy but it seems like OLE would be a better option rather than LR and even cranberry.

By the way, I like your new picture. Your daughter is adorable! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Yep, unfortunately I am aware of that.

It is NOT SAFE for women TTC and we are currently at 33% success rates for husbands taking LR (meaning 67% BOYS conceived to men taking it). Licorice during pregnancy has been 100% proven to cause developmental delays - and this is just EATING actual licorice candy and not taking the highly concentrated supplements. We don't know the mechanism by which this occurs and nor do we know how long the effects in the body last, so this is not what I find to be acceptably safe even if it was 100% successful (which it all but certainly isn't.) I have NO IDEA why they're still using it. They still do lots of things that we've clearly demonstrated either work or don't work or aren't safe and I am clueless as to why they do things the way that they do.

The trouble with the Facebook pages is this - they have NO accountability. We know for a fact that many swaying related Facebook pages are in the business of deleting comments they disagree with and some have it set up so every comment has to be moderator approved before being posted. So we don't KNOW what their actual results are because we don't know whose comments have been deleted and if any comments had to be approved first, and were never approved if they didn't say the right thing. They also shout people down who chime in to mention an unpopular opinion so many people (myself included) prefer not to post in them because they're so hostile to anyone who disagrees with them. On this site you can click on anyone's user names and actually send them a message, talk with them yourself personally to verify their baby's gender and while our stats are absolutely not the quality of a study, they're better than the FB groups for sure because we include everyone who sways and not only a small cherry-picked group of people.

Just to clarify, though - OLE is not a replacement for licorice for your husband. OLE replaces cranberry. Peppermint tea and/or soy milk replace licorice root. So you would have him take either OLE or cranberry, along with Licorice root or peppermint tea, and then I like guys to drink 12-48 oz of soy milk. But the thing is that not all guys can or should use all these things and that is what I can't comment on without the sway plan - I just can't know without all the medical info what options and combos are right for which guys to use. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and thank you! i thought her bed head was hilarious.

[ForeverMyLove]

Aw I love the bed head, too! How old is she?

Thanks again for all your help and wisdom. I really enjoy reading the science behind each sway tactic. I have read all your essays on PH, Replens/Rephresh, Supplements, LE Diet, Positions, Sugars, etc...So informative and interesting. You have made this process easier to understand and its been so helpful. Thank you!

So after reading our posts, your essays and other posts/information on here, I have come up with this for a good sway. Please let me know if I have anything wrong or if I should add something/change something, etc...I have a few questions, too, but I will ask them throughout to make it easier.

For ME:
1. LE Diet (I haven't done the diet for 12 weeks but haven't been consuming an excessive amount of food -its hard to sit down with three little ones under 6 so I guess I have been doing something, is that okay? We plan to start next month but I am not recording everything and being obsessive. I am just monitoring what I am eating more and being more aware but not over doing it). I have some peanut butter toast in the morning, something light in the afternoon (kids crust or a small salad) and a bigger dinner with chicken, so I don't believe I am overdoing it with the protein. I need to munch on more low carb veg., too -probably.
2. Added fiber capsules (once or twice a day after a bigger/more fatty meal), coffee in the morning (already was doing this), alcohol (added this recently as I don't drink a lot of alcohol at all and just have a little wine some evenings or maybe I should try some champagne, how much is important for sway?)
3. Taking folic acid not prenatal vitamins anymore (just switched over a few days ago)
4. Doing one attempt using OPK -hopefully it ends up being 2 days before O
5. Exercise at least 5 days a week (been doing that for awhile)
6. PH...I am not sure about this one...I might start off trying it out and eliminate it later on. What are your thoughts? I already bought the hanna meter before we started talking so I figured why not try but I don't have to at all. If I do, using refresh is best to bring down PH. I may only do a fingertip or a little more. What do you think? 12 hours before BD and fingertip 1 hour before, but not after BD, right? I really do not want to kill all the sperms. LOL. KY Jelly, useful? I read in one of your essays that it sways girl but not sure if its recent and don't want to kill sperm again.
7. No other supplements since they are not safe. I saw something about antihistamine. Wasn't sure if that was safe and helpful?
8. Postions...I saw that you like standing best for girl sway, but any others that may work. I do not plan to orgasm if I can prevent it (I know it isn't a huge sway tactic so I am not worried about if I do but will try not to) and I know position isn't important either but figured I would ask. Again, I don't want to have no sperm reaching my cervix.
9. Jump and dump but wait 5 minutes to compromise

For Hubby:
1. OLE (doens't hurt and I don't like the sounds of cranberry especially if it doesn't seem to work) I did read that the cranberry can lower pH but I would have him take it sparely so not all the time, so it wouldn't work then right? And I believe OLE has shown better results currently?
2. Exercise (if he will do it)
3. Release every 2-4 days before 1 attempt but not over doing it the days before that 1 attempt.
4. Soy milk (12-48 oz), fiber, and peppermint tea if he will do it
5. Hot shower...maybe? Again, do not want to kill all the sperm. Ha.
6. LR scares me so I don't think I will do it for hubby either

I did see/read that if your CM is less (so less EW) that is a good sign the LE diet is working, is that true? I did notice that in my last cycle I had less EW when I normally have a lot. I was actually struggling to see it as I was nearing ovulation because I didn't see much of it. I have Taking Charge of Your Fertility and take my temp and use fertility friend and use my CM to figure out my ovulation. I used it with my other kids and TTC. But definitely have been struggling to use my CM as an indicator lately because much less EW if at all.

Thanks so much again!

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok please do bump this for me as I'm not feeling super well today and am just dashing through a few quick posts. Thank you, realy appreciate it and your patience.

[ForeverMyLove]

Hope you feel better!! Thank you!

Bump :)

[atomic sagebrush]

one more bump please!! (sorry I have migraines, which are at least 3 days for me, and make it really hard to scroll up and down on longer posts like this)

[ForeverMyLove]

Bump 🙂

Do not apologize at all!! I get migraines, too, and they are the worst. I see specks of light all over the place, any light is painful, I get nauseous and numbing in my hands and lips. It’s crazy and awful. And you are right, they do last a couple days. I really hope you feel better very soon and get lots of rest. Thanks again!

[atomic sagebrush]

She just turned 6, which seems almost impossible to believe!

I'm so glad the site was helpful to you! And thanks again for your patience.

Re just eating less - the dilemma is, when people just eat less food, they very often end up erring on the side of eating too little. The real problem with not tracking is not overdoing it on fat or protein or calories - but not eating ENOUGH. The LE Diet is not only meant to sway pink, but it's also meant to be a healthy pre-pregnancy diet as well and so that is actually the main purpose for having you guys track. When people eat too little, not only does it reduce the ability to get and stay pregnant and even possibly trigger eating disorders, but it will cause your menstrual cycle to get really screwed up, delaying or even stopping ovulation. Then once you've cut back too far, the only way to fix the problem is by eating more (so you can't help but then give your body an increase in nutrients and food!) and so this can even potentially end up undermining your sway, if you have to basically sway blue just in order to get yourself ovulating again!

You don't have to track indefinitely, but even if you could just do it for a few days, even loosely, it can really help you better understand how much you're really taking in.

Re how much coffee/wine - any more than you WERE having is all you need to do. While I generally have people aim at 2-3 coffees and 1 alcoholic beverage a day if you can't get up to that level that is ok as long as it's more than you were doing when you got your boys, or more important, than what you were having recently.

Re prenatals - did you make this switch all of a sudden? If you've been taking prenatals for a while it can really mess up your system just to drop them so I'd take one today and then kind of gradually wean off them by spacing doses instead of suddenly dropping them in favor of folic acid.

Re 2 day cutoff - if your cycle is regular you can still have a 2 day cutoff if you want to. Just because I don't believe in timing, I understand that is important to some people and it's ok to have a cutoff of 2 days. Totally at your discretion. Or, if your cycle is irregular you can get a fertility monitor and have attempt on second "high" reading instead of first peak (positive OPK). Just be sure you know going in that a monitor can give you many days of "high" OR cn go straight to "peak" without any highs so have a Plan B and C in place for either eventuality.

Re pH - totally fine to start off using it and then ditch it if BFN. I don't find a fingerfull of RepHresh to be helpful so I'd stick with the larger amount 12 hours before, then use KY or Sylk as a lube OR a fingertip of Acijel or Replens before BD, whichever you prefer.

Re antihistamine - it hasn't worked at all and really cuts odds of conception considerably. I would hesitate if you want a cutoff AND pH, to add the antihistamine in but many people do want to give it a whirl. Should be among the first things to be dropped though.

RE positions - yeah I seriously doubt this makes any difference at all. Very few people have done standing position - that's among my oldest essays and is not something I believe matters.

OLE has had better results since Day One but I am not convinced that it's a real finding. I originally had only people who were having trouble with male factor infertility or similar fertility challenges using the OLE and I strongly suspect that skewed the results to make OLE look much more effective than it really was. As more and more people started using OLE, the results have plummeted and are now practically identical to the overall success rate of the site (despite starting off very high!) so that leads me to believe more than ever that it's not even doing anything. But neither does cranberry! especially if you were only going to give it to him in a hit and miss way, I'd go with the OLE, absolutely.

Re exercise - if he's willing, unlike most of this stuff, jogging/biking has been proven in studies to sway pink.

Hot shower is a good compromise - better for fertility than hot bath that's for sure. Again not something I"m super sold on.

Re less EWCM - that's the assumption we operate on although we don't completely know this as fact. I have seen plenty of CM opposites (including my own - got my 4th boy with no visible CM and didn't even know I'd ovulated, even checking pH 2-3 times a day, and then my girl while having obvious CM) and so I don't like you guys to read TOO much into it (as in, people who decide "well, I have less CM so I'm going to not even bother doing diet" OR "Well, I haven't noticed less CM so must be time to starve myself" both of which are regularly occurring things around here, unfortunately). So while it's great you're noticing less CM, don't rush into your sway on that basis and if over time you notice more than you have lately, don't assume you're on the wrong track, either.

Everything else is looking right on track to me! :)

[ForeverMyLove]

Thank you so much Atomic! Hope you are feeling better!

I will start writing down what I eat so I can get a better idea. I think thats the best option. With exercising and chasing around three little ones, I need to eat so I definitely will not be starving myself. I totally understand about eating healthy in order to fall pregnant. I do have a specific question regarding the LE diet that I forgot about...with skipping breakfast, is it because you want over 12 hours of not eating or a certain number of hours of not eating after you wake up, so like 3 hours? I hope that makes sense.

I forgot to ask, should the coffee be caffeinated or caffeine free? I have caffeinated coffee in the morning but don't always in the afternoon.

The OPK stuff is confusing. I don't plan to do timing. Based on your recommendation, I would like to BD 2 days before O if I can and only one attempt. But if you think doing it 1 day before ovulation or on ovulation for the one attempt is good, too, I am fine with that, as well. My cycles are not perfect but not extremely irregular so I would probably use an OPK or fertility monitor (I need to look into this). When you mentioned this, "Just be sure you know going in that a monitor can give you many days of "high" OR cn go straight to "peak" without any highs so have a Plan B and C in place for either eventuality." Do you mean that the OPK can be faulty sometimes or that a fertility monitor can give you several fertile days before peak/ovulation days or non at all? What would be other plans of action in case of this?

So no rephresh right before BD, correct? It might kill too much sperm? Only 12 hours before and "use KY or Sylk as a lube OR a fingertip of Acijel or Replens before BD?" Do I need to use this before or can I use nothing? Not sure what is better.

I am not going to do an antihistamine or worry about positions. Since I don't like cranberry and it doesn't look like it is effective for swaying, I don't plan to give it to my hubby at all. I will stick with OLE. And I am not worrying about CM. Thank you!

Lastly, the one attempt and LE diet seem to be the most important aspects of swaying girl. If I included PH for a cycle or two and hubby hot shower, jump and dump, (probably not shallow penetration), then will I be left with any living sperm? I don't want to overdo it, which is my main concern because ultimately, I do want to get pregnant in a reasonable amount of time. Lol.

Also, I forgot, for the LE diet, do you want low carbs and low protein? Or is one more important to focus on than the other? I think it will be harder to do both.

Thanks again so much!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes I am, thanks!

You want a long fasting period every day. 12-16 hours. You don't have to skip breakfast, some people find it easier to have dinner very early and go overnight. The majority of people find it easier to wait a while to eat breakfast. Just do whichever option works for you as long as you have 12-16 hours with no food coming in.

We do not know if it's caffeine or something in coffee itself. To err on the side of caution I have you guys use caffeinated coffee just in case but decaf may very well be good too.

Both OPK and fertility monitors can be faulty, unfortunately. The OPK can give false positives and false negatives and many days of positives., and the monitors can do that too, PLUS going from low fertility right to peak. I don't mention all that to try to confuse, just because it's good for people to have backup plans in place if the OPK/monitors do unexpected things.

The backup plans would vary depending on the situation and since it would be quite time consuming to go over all of them I'd prefer to wait to see how it goes for you and advise you at that time, if that is ok. Most likely scenario is that it goes according to plan.

RepHresh immediately before intercourse has three downsides. Firstly it may kill sperm, secondly, it may not have time to work and may cause your pH to temporarily spike upon insertion. but more importantly, it is a TERRIBLE lube and gets really gummy and sticky. So if you need/want to use something right before intercourse (either as a lube or for pH) then please use KY or Sylk for their lube purposes (they should also lower pH) OR Acijel or Replens if you're worried specifically about pH as these are also inferior lubes. You can absolutely use nothing. We honestly do not know what is best. NO lubes have gotten anything better than neutral results - same number of people getting girls with and without them. They also cut odds of conception considerably so take that into account.

LE Diet longer than 12 weeks plus fiber, coffee, alcohol and dropping vitamins and fortified foods and probiotics, exercise, one attempt, clomid/Femara if you can get them. For DH, jogging/biking and smoking. These are the things that really seem to make a proven difference above the overall success rate of the site. The rest of the stuff, while it may sway a little like if we were doing a study in 1000 couples doing nothing else to sway, gets lost in the shuffle and ends up doing nothing but cutting odds of conception.

So to answer your question, yes that is the concern - when you do EVERYTHING you end up cutting odds of conception to nothing. Now, many people will say "well I don't care if I go on and on till menopause not geting pregnant, I want to do all these things" but what invariably happens is that they'll go on and on not getting pregnant, and either they'll do diet and exercise so hard that their ovulation stops and they basically have to sway blue just to get it going again. OR, they underestimate how hard it is to see those BFN pile up and so they'll panic somewhere around 6-8 months of TTC, decide they have "made themselves infertile" from swaying or are in menopause and then panic and drop everything all in one month, and even start doing things that boost fertility just to get pregnant at all. This generally happens within one month LOL and either of these two scenarios is a recipe for another boy. So to my way of thinking, it's by far best to start off with at least a snowball's chance of conceiving to start with and to quickly drop the things that have been shown to do little to nothing and really cut odds of conception at the same time.

And as for those people you read about on other sites who claim they did all this stuff and got pregnant in one month? Based on our results here over the course of 8 years now, I have to say they're either insanely lucky or they are fibbing because we have trouble conceiving on this site even with relatively light sways. The sways that have 7 day cutoffs, marathon douching, eating 500 cals a day for months, taking massive herb doses, husbands wearing jocks and sitting in saunas etc, etc, etc simply cannot be conceiving that way when we have trouble getting pregnant just doing a little jelly and 2 day long cutoffs! So take those things with a huge, huge grain of salt because they very likely are not true or are lightning strike events.

LE Diet is not low carb. It's lower protein, lower fat, lower calorie than you were eating and most people will end UP getting fewer carbs (even though the overall percent of carbs in their diet goes UP!). To illustrate, if you were eating 3000 cals a day, 90 g protein, 70 g fat a day, you'd be getting 360 calories from protein, 630 cals of fat (we'll round this and make it about 1000 cals from protein and fat) is 500 g of carbs (that is a LOT of carbs. low carb diets are generally below 100 or even 50 g carbs. On the standard LE Diet, you would be getting 40-50 g calories from protein (160-200 calories from protein) and 30-60 g (270-720 cals) from fat and eating about 1500-1800 cals a day. To make it easy we'll say 200 cals from protein, 500 cals from fat, giving us 700 cals from protein and fat, and 800-1000 cals from carbs. This would be 200-250 g carbs - not a low carb diet to be sure but for most people, even those who eat nowhere near 3000 cals to start with, LE Diet will both be lower carb than they WERE eating but still is NOT a low carb diet.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for a diet to be low fat, low protein, low calorie, and low carb. That type of diet would be a starvation diet and is not allowed. But it IS possible to eat lower than you WERE on all those things. That having been said you do NOT need to eat lower carb than you were. Lower carb is not a fundamental part of LE Diet, only the lower protein, lower fat, and lower cal.

(please don't make me do any more math)

[ForeverMyLove]

Sounds great! I think that sounds like a good idea to wait and see how things go. I appreciate all the help!!

[ForeverMyLove]

Hi again Atomic! I am planning on ttc for the first time this month. I should ovulate in a few days. Since it's my first month of ttc, I plan to start off doing the Rephresh. Is it important to do it 12 hours before to get the benefit or can I do it like 24 hours before? How crucial is the timing of it? Again, I don't want to kill all the sperm and my main focus is more diet and the one attempt. This is just a little extra since i just started ttc. Thanks so much!

[atomic sagebrush]

24 hours before is better for chances of conception. I have seen pretty low conception rates with the 8-12 hours. Now, it may be that 24 hours doesn't do anything either, so that's the consideration! Just something we can't really know for sure without doing a more scientific study than we are able to do here.

[ForeverMyLove]

SO confused and need advice on ovulation...

First off, as usual, great advice! You are awesome. Thanks so much! Your response leads me to my next question.

So I use fertility friend and check my temperature every morning, CM, and ovulation strips that I just bought recently. I used the clear blue with the smiley faces with one of my other pregnancies but decided to use another brand online called PREGMATE based on their good reviews and obviously, they are cheaper.

Since I plan to do only ONE attempt, I am so confused when I should try. (I didn't try only once with my other pregnancies so it wasn't an issue but now I am swaying girl so makes things tricker). My cycles are irregular. For instance, FF said I ovulated on cycle day 12/13 last month, 16 the month before, and 17 the month before that and predicts 15 this month which would be Sunday. (And temp also isn't 100% accurate as I do get woken up a few times between three kiddos and its sometimes hard to interpret the charts) I have noticed an increase in CM but not egg white which I do see most months leading up to O but more watery yesterday and today. The ovulation strips (and I know we talked that they aren't very accurate) but they haven't shown a positive yet, but that makes sense if FF predicts my ovulation day to be Sunday. It should show up positive potentially tomorrow - I guess. I sometimes get ovulation cramps some months more than others but haven't this month so far.

Anyways, so my question is when should I do my one attempt? I do not want to try to early and then be too afraid to try again and mess up my sway but I do not want to miss it either. I also plan to use rephresh this month of ttc and even though it isn't a huge focus at all, I do want to give it a try but have no idea when to use it. I definitely don't want to use it too close to BD and if I end up using it 24 hours before, then I am okay with that but would like it to be somewhat effective. I guess I am more worried about using it too close to my one attempt and killing all sperm. I do my ovulation strips in the early afternoon so I would need to do rephresh before then but I can't predict the strips...I hope I am making sense. LOL.

So I am just finding it really tricky to figure out the best time to do my one attempt. Thanks again for your time and all your help!! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

With irregular cycles I would go off the OPK and have attempt either the second flashy (for a cutoff) or first solid smiley (for better chance of conception) BUT if you really really really have an inkling that O is nigh and you never got a positive, then have attempt but keep testing with the OPK. If you get positive within 2 days, stick with the attempt you've had. If 4 or more days, have another attempt. If 3, flip a coin and do what the coin says.

I would go ahead and do a round of RepHresh now and then wait and see what happens. You always have the option of topping it off again in a day or two, that doesn't hurt anything.

[ForeverMyLove]

Awesome! Thank you! Great advice. What happens if I go ahead and do my one attempt today and I ovulate today or tomorrow. Is that going to sway more blue? Or is it okay to do your one attempt on O? I have been having some cramping and would prefer not to try the day of O. I am not sure the Pregmate strips I bought are very good so I am going to order the clearblue ones for my next cycle. However, I don't want this month to be a complete waste. I would rather have my one attempt today with the hopes that O is tomorrow or the next day. It is so tricky especially since temp doesn't help you predict ovulation. Thanks again!

[ForeverMyLove]

Also, I completely forgot for the Clear Blue ovulation strips. It looks like they have improved them and it now shows 4 fertile days (which now makes sense what you wrote). So if I try on the second flashy face, that would be 3 days before O? And if I try on the first solid smiley face, then that would be 2 days before O? Is that right? I am not sure if the new tests are easier or more confusing. HAHA! So normally, you would only get 1 smiley face and that would be typically 12-24 hours before you ovulate, right? Now it is tricker. Would my goal be to try 2 (first solid smiley?) or 1 day (Second solid smiley) before O? Sorry about all the questions...didn't realize this would be so tricky. lol. Thanks again!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Awesome! Thank you! Great advice. What happens if I go ahead and do my one attempt today and I ovulate today or tomorrow. Is that going to sway more blue? Or is it okay to do your one attempt on O? I have been having some cramping and would prefer not to try the day of O. I am not sure the Pregmate strips I bought are very good so I am going to order the clearblue ones for my next cycle. However, I don't want this month to be a complete waste. I would rather have my one attempt today with the hopes that O is tomorrow or the next day. It is so tricky especially since temp doesn't help you predict ovulation. Thanks again!

No, because timing doesn't sway and one attempt does. https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html If you want to stay away from O, then BD before, but it really doesn't do anything, important thing is the one attempt.

Yes that's a very important reason why timing simply can't work. Temping does not help people do cutoff timing for pink and is very unreliable even for blue swayers so all those people walking around who will swear to you it worked for them, you have no idea when they ovulated (nor do they) and studies have shown that temping CANNOT accurately pin down ovulation day even in retrospect any better than 1 in 3 days. Temping can get you close enough to prevent pregnancy or to achieve it but it cannot pinpoint ovulation day for anyone regardless of what you may read on other sites.

[atomic sagebrush]

Also, I completely forgot for the Clear Blue ovulation strips. It looks like they have improved them and it now shows 4 fertile days (which now makes sense what you wrote). So if I try on the second flashy face, that would be 3 days before O? And if I try on the first solid smiley face, then that would be 2 days before O? Is that right? I am not sure if the new tests are easier or more confusing. HAHA! So normally, you would only get 1 smiley face and that would be typically 12-24 hours before you ovulate, right? Now it is tricker. Would my goal be to try 2 (first solid smiley?) or 1 day (Second solid smiley) before O? Sorry about all the questions...didn't realize this would be so tricky. lol. Thanks again!!

There's more than one kind. The Clearblues have long had an option for 4 days of fertility but they were much more $$ than the other kinds.

But yes if you try on second flashy face, that ~should~ be 3 days before O, but keep in mind that you can get more than 2 days of flashy before peak, you can get NO flashies and go straight to peak, you can get a flashy whne you're actually AT peak instead, take longer than 48 hours to ovulate after peak...pretty much every possible variation you can imagine, can and does happen.

On the tests that do not have flashies, you will ovulate 8-48 hours after you get that first solid smiley. (well actualy on all tests, LOL) The second solid smiley is NOT necessarily 1 day before O, it could be O day or 2 days before O still or even a day after O. OPK are really lousy technology but they're all we have. The average time to ovulation after solid smiley is 24-36 hours. And ovulating later (48 hours plus) is much more common than ovulating sooner (8 hours after first solid) and I find most of the people who really do O very soon after solid have used the tests too rarely or are doing something else to make them less reliable (like drinking a lot of liquid or otherwise not following directions). My point is, it's much more likey you will be either average or even later than average and NOT 8 hours after posive, even though it's possible.

[ForeverMyLove]

Hi Atomic,

So I found out I am pregnant. Today is day 36 of my cycle and got a positive on day 30 but waited to see what would happen and tested again on day 35 and still positive. My temp remained high which helped me figure it all out, too. I had a chemical pregnancy before my second child and my temp dropped about 3 days after I got my positive so after that experience, I am always cautious to be overly excited.

I didn't expect it to happen from our first month of ttc and wasn't in a super rush as I wanted to get it right but very grateful. This is what I was able to do so hopefully I will get a successful girl sway. I was skipping breakfast, following the diet (as best I could), taking a fiber capsule, drinking some alcohol (more than I do since I don't drink), coffee, exercise 5-6 days per week, no orgasm, one attempt (I didn't ever get an indication I was going to ovulate since I used Pregmate strips which I didn't like and obviously they didn't work but I used my temp, CM, and your guidance to figure out my one attempt), jumped and dumped right away, used rephresh about 9 hours prior to BD because I wanted to include it in my first month and ended up forgetting to use it 12 hours prior so decided to just take chance and do it 9 hours prior. I didn't eat cereal and stopped taking my prenatal and used folic acid instead (only did this for 1 month unfortunately - didn't think I would get pregnant so fast). My husband kept forgetting to take OLE so that wasn't included.

I tried to include as much as I could and even though I didn't do most of the stuff for longer than 12 weeks before ttc, I think I did get in at least 8 weeks (maybe longer...not sure). Hopefully, it was enough and works! I just wanted to fill you in on whats going on and of course thank you again for all your help! Now I guess I just wait....lol.

[Mom25boys]

Hi Atomic,

So I found out I am pregnant. Today is day 36 of my cycle and got a positive on day 30 but waited to see what would happen and tested again on day 35 and still positive. My temp remained high which helped me figure it all out, too. I had a chemical pregnancy before my second child and my temp dropped about 3 days after I got my positive so after that experience, I am always cautious to be overly excited.

I didn't expect it to happen from our first month of ttc and wasn't in a super rush as I wanted to get it right but very grateful. This is what I was able to do so hopefully I will get a successful girl sway. I was skipping breakfast, following the diet (as best I could), taking a fiber capsule, drinking some alcohol (more than I do since I don't drink), coffee, exercise 5-6 days per week, no orgasm, one attempt (I didn't ever get an indication I was going to ovulate since I used Pregmate strips which I didn't like and obviously they didn't work but I used my temp, CM, and your guidance to figure out my one attempt), jumped and dumped right away, used rephresh about 9 hours prior to BD because I wanted to include it in my first month and ended up forgetting to use it 12 hours prior so decided to just take chance and do it 9 hours prior. I didn't eat cereal and stopped taking my prenatal and used folic acid instead (only did this for 1 month unfortunately - didn't think I would get pregnant so fast). My husband kept forgetting to take OLE so that wasn't included.

I tried to include as much as I could and even though I didn't do most of the stuff for longer than 12 weeks before ttc, I think I did get in at least 8 weeks (maybe longer...not sure). Hopefully, it was enough and works! I just wanted to fill you in on whats going on and of course thank you again for all your help! Now I guess I just wait....lol.Good luck! And congrats. It looks like a great sway. From all the sways I read, the 1 attempt is critical. Sadly I messed that one up. And exercise is great too. Fx it worked and it's a sticky bean :)

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[Lilawt]

Just read your post! I found your questions very interesting, and of course Atomic’s replies.

Wishing you lots of luck that your sway is a success.

Lil


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[Pink1980]

Congratulations!!
When did you have your attempt on the second day of flashing smile or at a positive opk

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks so much and huge congrats on your BFP!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Good luck! And congrats. It looks like a great sway. From all the sways I read, the 1 attempt is critical. Sadly I messed that one up. And exercise is great too. Fx it worked and it's a sticky bean :)

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Just want everyone to know that while one attempt is a good sway tactic, it's not critical. You can still get girls with more than one attempt. I just want everyone to start off with one attempt and drop all other less effective sway tactics like ph, timing, frequency, herbs/antihistamines, etc before adding attempts.

[ForeverMyLove]

Thanks so much and huge congrats on your BFP!!!

Thank you so much!! I so appreciate all your help, time, and patience. Crossing my fingers that everything continues to go well with this pregnancy and I did what I needed to do for my sway to work :)

[ForeverMyLove]

Congratulations!!
When did you have your attempt on the second day of flashing smile or at a positive opk

Unfortunately, I didn't get a positive opk. I used the Clear Blue tests before with my other pregnancy but decided to try a different ovulation kit brand for my first month of ttc. However, the different brand never showed me a positive opk even after following directions and taking it daily. I was planning on buying and using the clear blue ovulation tests the next month and Atomic was kindly guiding me on how to use it effectively.

[Mom25boys]

Just want everyone to know that while one attempt is a good sway tactic, it's not critical. You can still get girls with more than one attempt. I just want everyone to start off with one attempt and drop all other less effective sway tactics like ph, timing, frequency, herbs/antihistamines, etc before adding attempts.Really? Ahhhh. That makes me feel better. It's just I read that as the most common denominator in the succesful sways. And still haven't seen a sway result from e4d or more attempts... thank you, though. I'm feeling better about my sway then

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[atomic sagebrush]

Have you not ever seen our stats thread? https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/51473-complete-pink-swaying-statistics-spreadsheet-info-links-enter-your-sway.html

[Mom25boys]

Have you not ever seen our stats thread? https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/51473-complete-pink-swaying-statistics-spreadsheet-info-links-enter-your-sway.htmlThat's so interesting. Thank you. It was very confusing but I got it. Most things have pretty high, over 50%, in the stats. What was interesting was seeing how the percentage changes for the better the longer you are on the diet. That was very interesting. The e4d I didn't see much on.

Thanks

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[atomic sagebrush]

That's because we stop doing the handful of things that got worse than 50-50. We would be a little kooky to keep doing things that got worse than 50-50. We keep them in there to show people NOT to do them.

Since the overall success rate of the site is about 69%, we can look at things that have gotten lower than that, and say "hmm these things are certainly not helping anything, and may even be hurting in some cases, because they're WORSE than the site as a whole." Things that are about 69% we can say "this may or may not be helping, but it isn't hurting." A few things have better than the overall success rate of the site and those things we can say with a fairly high level of confidence "this is actually doing something." So that helps you to thin out the things that aren't doing anything from those that are.

e4d actually is in there and it's gotten about 69% which is the same as the site as a whole. So that indicates that it's not hurting and may even be helping our success rate. We would need a side by side study to prove that done in people who weren't doing other things to sway, but it's a good assumption that it's at worst, neutral, at best, helping.

[Mom25boys]

That's because we stop doing the handful of things that got worse than 50-50. We would be a little kooky to keep doing things that got worse than 50-50. We keep them in there to show people NOT to do them.

Since the overall success rate of the site is about 69%, we can look at things that have gotten lower than that, and say "hmm these things are certainly not helping anything, and may even be hurting in some cases, because they're WORSE than the site as a whole." Things that are about 69% we can say "this may or may not be helping, but it isn't hurting." A few things have better than the overall success rate of the site and those things we can say with a fairly high level of confidence "this is actually doing something." So that helps you to thin out the things that aren't doing anything from those that are.

e4d actually is in there and it's gotten about 69% which is the same as the site as a whole. So that indicates that it's not hurting and may even be helping our success rate. We would need a side by side study to prove that done in people who weren't doing other things to sway, but it's a good assumption that it's at worst, neutral, at best, helping.Ahhhh. Thanks for explaining. There were so many posts I thought i was missing something. Thanks for getting the stats together. It makes it so much more real.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[ForeverMyLove]

Hi Atomic, so I was looking at my Fertility Friend charts from my 4 previous pregnancies. (2 that were successful, 1 chemical pregnancy and 1 recent miscarriage). I definitely noticed a weird trend, which could be nothing but worth mentioning to you to see your thoughts. For both my chemical pregnancy and my successful 2nd child (1st one I didn't chart as I got pregnant first time trying after getting off birth control), I BD the day before my positive OPK and got pregnant. I tried for 6 months with my second child and every other time which was unsuccessful, I always skipped that day before the positive OPK. I BD all around that day but not on the day except for the 2 pregnancies (chemical and second child). With my 3rd child and miscarriage, I didn't have OPK's that worked or at least were not working so it's hard to judge those but the charts look similar to those other successful pregnancies. Anyways, I am thinking that may be a good thing to consider at the moment while I start BD again. But how can I figure out that day...the day before a positive OPK? If I use the clearblue ovulation tests, they may not just give me two days of high fertility before the peak and could give me multiple days or no days, etc...I wasn't sure if I should just buy the older version of the clearblue ovulation tests (the ones I used for the chemical and second child) with just peak day and just guess and hope I get the day before the positive OPK correct or if the 4 day test would be somewhat helpful? I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks so much!!

[atomic sagebrush]

That's the problem - unless you're clairvoyant, you can't.

There are really only 3 days in the whole cycle you have a decent chance of conception. The day before pos OPK, the day OF pos OPK, and the day after pos OPK. So it's really not proving anythign that you happened to have 2 conceptions that day. it's a 1 in 3 chance that it will be one of those days. I do not think (and science doesn't support) that this indicates that you can only get pregnant that one day of the cycle. Studies show best chances of conception o-2 (usually day before pos OPK) and O-1 (usually day of OPK), with somewhat less the day after OPK and a small minority O-3. That's just the days of the cycle people GET pregnant so it's not at all unusual to see this type of pattern.

We have some people who try this method where they get a clearblue and BD the day of the second flashy smiley. It's ok if you want to try it, but do be aware it rarely works out the way people think. Lots of people get many flashy smileys, or go straight to peak with NO flashy smileys, or have a peak and then O is delayed for some reason - it just really doesn't work in any predictable way.

It's not something I'd bother with personally but it is your sway, your way.

[ForeverMyLove]

Thank you so much Atomic!! As usual, you are so knowledgeable and always put me at ease. That all makes perfect sense and I just happen to get lucky those times of conception and who really knows when it actually happened. It is so interesting looking at the charts though. So much more complicated than anyone would imagine. I trust you and don’t plan to rely on the flashy smiley. As you mentioned, it will be hard to know if a 3rd smiley will just happen to come the next day or none at all. It’s so tricky and not reliable but the best we have for all our irregular ovulation days.

So when would you BD? When I receive a solid smiley? Should I just get the tests that only show peak fertility so only solid smileys or do you suggest trying the tests with flashy smileys and solid smileys? I only plan to do the one attempt so I want to try my best to BD on the right day (or at least as best as I can).

Thanks so much again for all your help. It is definitely a tricky situation but I plan to try my best again at doing a good sway or one to the best of my abilities.

[atomic sagebrush]

I always recommend the day of the solid smiley simply because it's easy and is good odds of conception. But follow your heart - it's ok to try for a month on the second flashy or even to decide what do to kind of at the last minute - when u see that flashy ask yourself "do I want to try today" and do it!

I have no preference on the OPK, whichever you like best.

Good luck!

[ForeverMyLove]

Thank you! I appreciate it. One last thing, since the ovulation tests are unpredictable...what should I do if I BD on a second flashy smiley (my one attempt) and then I get another flashy smiley? I guess I would stick with that attempt unless I get a 4th flashy smiley and then finally a solid smiley, then maybe I should try again. If it looks like it will be 4 days before I actually ovulate, then maybe consider trying again. Does that make sense?

Also, when is the best time to test? The clearblue tests that have the flashy smileys say to test with first morning urine, but I have always heard that they are not like pregnancy tests and to actually test mid afternoon and try to drink less/hold your urine but maybe that is the other version with no flashy smileys...not sure.

As I write all this, I see why they are so unreliable. Every person is different and their hormones respond differently to the tests and then each person may test differently, etc...its crazy!

Thanks again! Sorry for the continuous questions.

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, that's the catch with the method. What I would do is if the test goes solid within 2 days, stick with attept you've had. If 4 or more (or you get a 4th day of flashy) have another attempt. If it's the "no man's land" of 3 days, either use the rule "for better odds of pink stick with the attempt you've had, for better odds conception have another attempt" or flip coin if you can't decide what to do.

While I generally suggest following the directions most brands of OPK are best used after lunch. Clear blue is supposed to be ok to use in the morning, but it's after lunch that the concentration of LH in urine is at its peak.

[ForeverMyLove]

Thank you! I guess we will see what happens. With 2 of my other pregnancies, I used the clearblue tests that only showed one solid smiley but now I bought the clearblue with flashy smileys. I probably should of just stuck with the old tests but I figured if they new ones work well for me, why not give them a chance. With the old tests, I could test in the afternoon where LH is highest, but it looks like they want you to test in the morning with the new tests and I am not sure how accurate it will be. Fun times ahead. LOL.

[atomic sagebrush]

keep us posted - that's how I learn is via your guys' experiences.

[ForeverMyLove]

Hi Atomic, so interesting update that I wanted to share with you. I started the OPK on cycle day 12 (I should of probably started a day or two sooner so the test could have had a base line regarding my estrogen levels) but it came back negative. I did the test in the morning when I just woke up. I think if I had started a day or two sooner it would have showed up as high fertility with the flashy smiley. So when I tested again in the morning after waking up on cycle day 13, it came up high fertility. I read on the instructions that once you get high fertility you can test more often as long as you drink normally and don't pee within 4 hours. I decided to test again later in the afternoon around 3:30pm and got a peak/solid smiley. I wasn't expecting that and was quite surprised. And of course once you get a peak on the test, the solid smiley doesn't go away for 48 hours. I was worried that it was an error or I did something wrong. So I had some other old strip OPK tests that didn't work for me before but decided to use them to see if it correlated. Well, it did so I figured it was a good idea to BD that night. I quickly put in some rephresh (just to use for the first month of ttc) so it would be at least 8 hours before BD. This morning I took another OPK strip (not the clearblue obviously as I can't) and it came back positive again and even more clear that yesterday's strip. So I am assuming that I will ovulate later today, tonight, tomorrow in the early morning hours or the afternoon tomorrow since its typically 24-48 hours.

So what I found interesting is that I wasn't going to test yesterday afternoon but instead just this morning. So if I hadn't tested yesterday afternoon, I would have seen the positive OPK/peak this morning and BD tonight and I might have missed my chance or maybe not. But I know its better to have sperm waiting for the egg and I might ovulate today so I wouldn't have had that if I BD tonight. I know people can obviously get pregnant soon after ovulation but I wanted the sperm to be waiting and ready. So not sure when I will actually ovulate but so glad that I did test again and hopefully it works!! It makes me think back to my other kids and ttc and maybe I missed the opportunity to have sperm waiting by not testing again in the afternoons.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes as you've deduced starting Clearblues on CD 12 is too late. It needs the earlier hormone levels in your cycle to compare to (that's part of how it works)

So you did BD?? Sorry I'm having a hard time understanding the timeline.

We can't know on the basis of any of this whether you've Oed or not yet though (or how many hours it will be.) OPK just cannot get it that exact for us, unfortunately. YOu may have ovulated very quickly after the Clearblue and then the LH in your urine with the other brand of test was just leftovers. Or, you may not have ovulated yet (even if the test had been negative the next day!) Positive OPK only measure hormones in urine that signal ovulation, and NOT whether or not you've Oed yet.

[ForeverMyLove]

Yes, I did BD last night. So hopefully I haven't ovulated yet. Based on tracking my temperature on Fertility Friend and other signs like having EW CF and cramps today, I believe I will be ovulating later today or tomorrow. Obviously, you never know when you will ovulate and as you said the OPK aren't 100% reliable but fortunately, I have had other signs to sort of help me deduce when I might be ovulating. Like you said, the amount of time the LH hormone is in your body varies from person to person and probably from cycle to cycle so it makes it even harder to pinpoint ovulation. Hopefully since I got the high fertility indication yesterday morning and then the peak indication in the afternoon, it notices a shift in my hormones and picked up the LH hormone. And hopefully I will ovulate 24-48 hours later and not 8-12 hours later (meaning I ovulated already), but who knows. Either way, I was able to BD so we will see what happens. Sorry if my timeline confused you. I confused myself at times, too. LOL

[ForeverMyLove]

Update....Atomic, so of course things have gotten a little confusing - again OPK's and figuring out ovulation is as usual tricky. Not sure if you would know this and I may have to do some research of my own, but if I ovulate sometime today, my morning temp would only go up tomorrow, right? It wouldn't of gone up this morning? The reason I ask is because of the following...

I took the clear blue OPK Tuesday morning and got my first flashy smiley and then tested again Tuesday afternoon and got a solid smiley. I BD Tuesday night. My temp was 96.7 on Tuesday morning (it was 96.7, too, Monday morning in case it helps to see some more numbers) and then Wednesday my temp moved to 97 ( I did take it 30 minutes later than Tuesday morning due to my alarm not working for some reason) and then this morning it was 97.1. So it hasn't shown a big jump yet which it may tomorrow if I am ovulating today - I think/assume but not sure how it would works. I hope that makes sense....I am just trying to use all the variables I have to make sure I did indeed ovulate.

The solid smiley clear blue OPK should turn off by this afternoon (it would have be 48 hours) so maybe I should test it again to see what happens? Also, my CM is creamy today. It was more EW yesterday. But I did use rephresh Tuesday so not sure if that would affect anything. What are your thoughts/suggestions? Thank you!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, it should go up the day after ovualtion, but honestly temping can be quite unpredictable and not reliable as we would hope it was. So only by looking at the overall pattern can we tell what happened. It isn't always so obvious that there's a big temp rise.

I woudln't bother testing again with the Clearblue because the Clearblue detects changes in your hormones to tell it when the surge happens. I would have sex every 4 days from now on just in case of delayed ovulation.

Yes, your CM can be changed by the RepHresh and additionally I don't think the EWCM is that reliable either.

[ForeverMyLove]

Thank you so much! It looks like a lot of things aren't very reliable when it comes to predicting your ovulation day and you just have to try your best. And yes, it is hard to interpret your chart based on your temp. It is always different and most of the time not obvious. Definitely is confusing. I appreciate the advice and help. Thanks!!

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: yep that's right. We use the tools we have and do our best but I don't want you guys to get too hung up on pinning down O day. Just not necessary.

[ForeverMyLove]

Hi Atomic! So I did get pregnant with the cycle I was talking about prior but wanted to wait for the ultrasound before sharing with you. I did get blood taken twice a few days after I got a positive pregnancy test required by my doctor to make sure everything looked normal after what happened in my last pregnancy. The ultrasound was last week and measuring exactly 7 weeks (based on my period I was 7 weeks that day) and heart rate of 134. Hoping it all continues to look good.

Just for your reference, I ended up BD the day I got a solid smiley. It’s been awhile so just to explain what happened, I took the OPK in the morning and it showed a flashy smiley. I wasn’t going to test again that day but decided to in the afternoon and it ended up being a solid smiley. So I BD that night and it was our one attempt. We did BD 5 days prior because I didn’t think I would ovulate so soon but I don’t believe that would affect the one attempt or am I wrong? Really hoping it worked and I will get a girl. Also, I wanted to see your thoughts on the Ramzi theory and Nub theory on ultrasounds. Are they accurate at all and the people using them to make guesses? Thanks so much!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh wow huge congrats!!

You're quite right, BD 5 days earlier would not affect the one attempt. :agree:

After having seen lots of people send Dr. Ramzi himself $10 to guess on their ultrasounds and he guessed incorrectly, I don't think there's anything to it at all. And nub shot can work - isn't 100% but is definitely helpful, just be sure you're waiting till the end of the 12th week, even into the 13th to have your nub ultrasound done. EArly 12th week, 11th, 10th are NOT reliable as all babies look like girls at tha tpoint.

[ForeverMyLove]

Thank you so much!! Really hoping everything continues to look good and it’s a girl!! Hoping the things I did helped some and worked! I tried not to stress and be more relaxed about it but still took my fiber, had coffee, worked out, stuck to diet as best I could, didn’t eat when I woke up, and took folic acid. I also did one attempt, used rephresh earlier in the day and did J&D after 5 minutes. I know it wasn’t perfect but hoping it worked. This is the hardest time, I think. I am sure you went through it, too. Any words of advice? I feel like it is a girl but definitely biased ��

It may have 4 days not 5 when we BD prior to 1 attempt. I need to double check. But that is okay still, right? Not sure why I am stressing about it...bc it’s already over and happened. Ha. Yes, I figured as much regarding the Ramzi theory. It seems crazy that you can look at the location of a placenta and know all. Lol. Hopefully, the next ultrasound my doctor has me do will be after 12 weeks. It’s the genetic one so who knows when she will want to do it. Are you good at the nub theory? It’s confusing to me but I have never been good at interpreting ultrasounds.

[atomic sagebrush]

even 4 days before is slim to no chance of conception. It was found to be one in 1000 (5 days before is 1 in 10,000, and then 6 days before is 1 in 100,000) in the best and most recent study done on the subject.

My only advice is that you did what you could do and yo have to try to actively turn it over to a higher power, even that higher power is just "luck". Nothing you can do will change the outcome now so just try to focus on your pregnancy in a positive light regardless of gender.

I wouldn't say I'm an expert but I've looked at a lot of nubs. I'm always happy to take a peek at a beautiful baby and give my opinion. :)

[ForeverMyLove]

Thank you so much! I love your explanation and it definitely puts me more at ease. I did my absolute best and now it’s up to a higher power and luck. It really is a good, healthy way to look at gender swaying. I appreciate it! And I will definitely send my little nugget your way if the ultrasound happens during the right time frame. You’re the best! Thanks Atomic!

[ForeverMyLove]

Hi Atomic! I just had my 13 week 1 day ultrasound scan and would love to send you some pictures to see what you think. The ultrasound tech gave her guess. The pictures are a bit bright but not sure if that matters. The machine my obgyn practice uses seems to always make the pictures/details brighter...I dunno. Can I send them to you in a message or what would you prefer? Thanks so much!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Sure you can post them here or in the ultrasound forum, or email me at atomicsagebrush@gmail.com

[ForeverMyLove]

Hi Atomic! Two quick questions. I am 17 weeks now and will be able to do the anatomy scan/find out the gender in the next few weeks. Do you know if it’s better to have the ultrasound around 19 weeks or 20.5 weeks (those are my options). Basically, I know they like it between 18-22 weeks so is it better to see more of what’s going on (gender and other anatomy) earlier or later in that time frame?

Also, is there anything else that I can do to sort of figure out the gender that is a little more reliable than other things? Like baking soda thing, Chinese calendar, etc...I figured since I am waiting, I might consider trying something else for fun that’s a little accurate...maybe? Lol.

[atomic sagebrush]

Anytime from 18-21ish is a great time to see gender.

None of those things are accurate and I don't recommend doing them even for fun. People think they don't mind it going in but then get very upset by them, either hearing things they don't want to hear, or having false hope that is later dashed. My advice is to skip them all.

[ForeverMyLove]

Hi Atomic! I just wanted to let you know that we found out the gender on Wednesday at 18 weeks and 6 days. It is a GIRL!! I will email you the potty shot for double confirmation :) Thanks so much for all your help these last few months! I greatly appreciate it!

[atomic sagebrush]

Woohoo!!!! Huge congrats!