Hi im new & looking for advice..

[sofkay]

Hi guys, i am new and have been ttc for what will be my 9th cycle this cycle..
i am 29, husband 30.
I would love a baby girl, but am becoming slightly "worried" at lack of baby thus so far..
I am not going to lie i am overweight, i can eat more calories then a normal person and still Burn calories during day, atleast according to my apple watch, and it mostly does seem accurate as i lose weight as expected. So basically i can eat 2000 and burn in a day a average of 2500. In terms of girl sway diet, would just burning calories and not going over be enough? I dont do any exercise (eek).. i would like to do some toning up as tummy is big :(
I dont eat very healthy, i eat a apple a day, fruit juice of some kind (grapefruit now as i heared it helps get CM friendly), apart from that i drink diet drinks and a mug of tea a day.. occasionally i will have a 2litre bottle of fizzy pop (max sugar all terrible).. I do tend to eat when i wake up, but... finish eating each day early .. so 4pm finish, 7am eating breakfast.
In terms of trying we have been primarily focusing on +opk tries.. husband now takes wellmans conception and seemingly produces more but whether its good or bad stuff who knows..

I am looking into SMEP.. (every 2 days then 3 days straight at +opk and day off, last try).

Just wanted some advice and even if it is sensible for me to even attempt a sway considering been 9 months..

Thank you in advanced. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I need to know what you're doing so far to a) sway and b) get pregnant at all. I am not talking about diet stuff, I'm talking about frequency of release, any supplements you're taking, any douches or jellies, etc. Are you doing shallow release, jump and dump, having hubby wear a jock or take hot baths or anything along those lines?

Also are you having a regular cycle?? How many days long? How are you tracking if at all? When are your attempts in relation to when your period comes.

PLEASE do not go to SMEP yet. And drop the grapefruit juice, I don't thnk that is our issue here. SMEP will sway strongly blue and we need to try changing things over time instead of all at once going into blue mode.

The first think you need to do is to stop doing one attempt at positive OPK and start having unprotected sex every 4 days starting after your period ends and continuing on till you are certian you have ovulated, even if that means going all the way through till your next period begins. My first suspicion is that you're just not having attempt at the proper time and at any rate it's time to change that up anyway.

No, burning calories isn't enough for a pink sway. I suspect you may also be eating too many carbs and that doesn't help you get pregnant. So I would have you switch from white refined carbs and sugar to whole grains, fruit, and veg (not fruit juice, which is quite sugary - even grapefruit! - but actually whole fresh fruit) . I want you eating full fat dairy ONLY, no skim or even part skim, and be sure you're having 1 serving of full fat dairy every day. Above all else, if you don't want to change anything else, do that.

Stopping eating at 4 pm and eating breakfast at 7 am is totally fine. :agree: keep doing that

Then if you wnat to do a sway diet on top of that we can but I think in the here and now, the most important thing dietwise is that you cut the intake of refined carbs somewhat because that may be affecting egg quality negatively.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and YES you should try swaying because we have ways that you can both boost your chances of conceiving from what you've been doing while having what will very likely be a better sway than you're doing now.

[sofkay]

Hi i havent been swaying as such to be honest.
Regarding tries they are around positive opk time typically BD thruout till a temperature rise confirms O.
I have charted for past 6 months cycles gone down from 32 days to 30.. (weight loss factor?)
I dont have friendly cm.. i was under impression grapefruit juice helped it and seems to have somewhat.. before it was creamy thruout i never have ewcm even with grapefruit j.. just slightly better then creamy and instead watery. I Ovulated between day 15-20.
I dont like every 4 days try as i would miss it i feel
I thought with SMEP to do BD 3 days row would lower count & help a girl? I know people who have done SMEP and got a girl?
Im glad stopping eating at 4 and eating 7 works :)
So you recomend better dairy? Wholegrains (i am eating brown toast), Veg and fruit . I really should avoid sugar? Again under impression sugar sways girl but also hurts fertility.

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[sofkay]

To add, i am using conceive plus as a lubricant. We need lube anyway and why not something more friendly?

Can i ask what problem is with fruit juice? Its strange because ive drunk it forever and it feels part of my day now

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[atomic sagebrush]

Hi i havent been swaying as such to be honest.
Regarding tries they are around positive opk time typically BD thruout till a temperature rise confirms O.
I have charted for past 6 months cycles gone down from 32 days to 30.. (weight loss factor?)
I dont have friendly cm.. i was under impression grapefruit juice helped it and seems to have somewhat.. before it was creamy thruout i never have ewcm even with grapefruit j.. just slightly better then creamy and instead watery. I Ovulated between day 15-20.
I dont like every 4 days try as i would miss it i feel
I thought with SMEP to do BD 3 days row would lower count & help a girl? I know people who have done SMEP and got a girl?
Im glad stopping eating at 4 and eating 7 works :)
So you recomend better dairy? Wholegrains (i am eating brown toast), Veg and fruit . I really should avoid sugar? Again under impression sugar sways girl but also hurts fertility.

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Ok. BD several times in the fertile window may sway blue so we need to focus on adding attempts in a way that boosts odds of conception without undermining your sway. I want you to start off having unprotected sex every 4 days (in an every 72 hour pattern) after your period ends and go on doing that all through the month until you're certain you have ovulated, even if that means going all the way through to your next period starting. One of the main reasons people don't get pregnant is that they have attempts at the wrong time and this guards against that happening.

And then add in one more attempt at positive OPK whenever that falls. So you'll be doing both e4d and a positive OPK attempt (and if this falls on the same day, just have an attempt the next morning or two in a row or whatever.) You will not miss your ovulation this way and in fact it is very likely BETTER chance of conception than having several BD in a row becuase depending on when you ovulate, your husband may get depleted and then by the time the egg shows up he'll have a very low count.

Grapefruit juice likely sways blue and since you want a baby girl we need to ditch that now. Watery IS fertile CM. YOu do not need to have stretchy EWCM.

No, SMEP does not sway pink. We have evidence that indicates pretty clearly that 3 attempts in the fertile window sways hugely blue even with an otherwise good pink sway. Our results show that one attempt is "pinkest" at about 70%, two attempts had about 65% pink, and then this fell all the way down to only 45% girls conceived with 3 attempts in the fertile window. I am not saying people never get girls with SMEP, they do, but nothing in swaying ever comes down to one thing the way you're thinking of it. Because lower fertility may indicate a couple is more "set" for girls, and people go to SMEP after having trouble conceiving, this may make it ~look~ like SMEP is more pink-friendly than it really is.

You're only 29, you have at least a little time to play around with sway tactics and I advise you give the e4d plus one more attempt at positive OPK a chance first before doing SMEP.

Yes, you really should avoid sugar. Sugar does not sway pink and for people who have insulin resistance/PCOS tendencies, sugar can actually raise their blood sugar levels and testosterone, possibly swaying blue. The reason some sites say "sugar sways pink" is for reasons of pH (and diet does not directly affect pH, they are incorrect about how that works) and because many moms of all daughters tend to eat a very poor diet where they have candy and diet coke for lunch and then get girls doing that. But they get girls becuase their diets are so nutrient poor and not because "sugar sways pink." Sugar is really bad for egg quality and since we don't know what is going on with you, I think we need to assume you're likely getting too many refined carbs right now and it won't hurt anything for you to cut back on those in favor of full fat milk, whole grains, fruit, and veg. We actually get better results with that type of diet anyway so you're not hurting your sway to go that route.

[atomic sagebrush]

To add, i am using conceive plus as a lubricant. We need lube anyway and why not something more friendly?

Can i ask what problem is with fruit juice? Its strange because ive drunk it forever and it feels part of my day now

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Small amounts of Conceive Plus (the barest minimum needed for comfortable intercourse) are ok, we often use that for pink swayers who have gone on a long time not getting pregnant. Larger amounts likely sway blue so please use only the smallest amount necessary to get the job done.

Fruit juice is both a highly concentrated source of nutrients (nutrients may sway blue) and it's also very sugary because it's simply the squeezed out juice without the fiber of the fruit. The fiber in whole fruit alters the way your blood sugar rises and slows that down, makes it not rise as high as fruit juice does. Since high blood sugar both sways blue and may harm egg quality, I think that is something you could easily change to see if it benefits you in any way for conceiving while also helping your sway.

[sofkay]

Thanks for your help its great :) i am waiting for my first positive opk this month but i need to add i switched opks recently as i was using clearblue but this was costing too much, my last cycle i used cheap opks and i noticed i had 3 days of positive opks!? Day 1 a same colour positive Day 2 a very dark and Day 3 a same colour positive before it going back to negative again..? When do i try? (also this cycle i ovulated on last day of positive opk).

To add i only used grapefruit juice as i had creamy cm all thru cycle, never once watery or ewcm, when i took grapefruit juice i got my first bit of watery cm (ive never had it!) but i also have never had ewcm even now...

So if i am understand attempts outside fertile window they are best at every 4 days so for example day 4,8,12,16,20,24..?



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[sofkay]

To add...
Husband takes 1 pill of Wellmans conception

I take Folic acid

My eating habits are typical of eating 5x a day, 6 at most, 4 minimum. I burn calories every day as i am currently dieting, Typically 500 calories a day.

Can i please get some advice on the best lunch i could eat to help sway? I eat breakfast, but i tend to just have a snack bar for lunch :/

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[atomic sagebrush]

It's not unusual to have 3 days of positive OPK. You will ovulate average of 36 hours after the first positive OPK (not the darkest) so count it that way, from the first of any brand.

You want to count the days in the every 72 hours or "Monday/Thursday" pattern (not those days but that is how u count the days.) So you'd actually go CD 4,7,10, 13, 16. This ensures you will always have one viable attempt. Then you'll plunk that OPK attempt down whenever it falls, for two attempts. This will help boost chance of conception while avoiding having too many attempts which sways blue, and because you'll be having attempts all month long you're guarding against delayed ovulation or early ovulation as well.

I am not a fan of Wellman's as it has some ingredients in it like ginseng and maca and megadose nutrients, that may be worse than nothing for sperm health. I would have him wean off of it or take it only 3x a week instead.

How many calories are you eating every day?

There is no "best" lunch to sway. People eat all sorts of things - salad, yogurt, bagel, sandwich...I often had a bean and cheese burrito or a hummus wrap for lunch when I was swaying. Snack bars are ok as long as they're not fortified with lots of added vitamins.

[sofkay]

I eat 2000 caloroes a day on average. Sometimes more... Sometimes 1500/1800 bla bla average of 2000 tho and minimum i will burn a day is 2500.

I am iclined to agree about Wellmans, only because he does produce more now (before i couldnt tell if he had gone) but at same time it now feels a lot of liquid/sticky substance

I just am not very good with lunch i literally have a snack bar -_-
I could try cheese sandwich, or a sandwich of some sort?



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[sofkay]

And sorry to confirm.. i should do a try on first positive opk or at a dark positive opk?

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[sofkay]

If 4,7,10,13 tries in a way then it is just a case have 2 full days off before have another go? And i should do this thru out cycle so example bd day 12 have 13,14 off bd again 15 and so on so forth? And 1 extra bd at a positive opk(is the first or darkest) and this is the e4d method? Its only because i presumed it literally meant every 4 days :)

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes cheese sandwich is great, I ate tons of those when swaying.

Try on first positive OPK (that is whenever the line is as dark or darker than the control line, not just any faint line!)

Do have him wean off the Wellman's, it's not good for health to quit any supplement suddenly

[sofkay]

Hi atomic just need some advice. This is my 9th month ttc.. in April i have a anovulatory cycle (no clear thermal shift) with 2 positive OPKs.
However, this cycle i am having a awful one tbh... I am on cd:18 and not 1 positive opk. The lastest i have ever ovulated is cd:20 and have had a positive opk at day 18 at the latest. I am doing all the correct way to take all the tests and have got previous positives doing it that way..however my opks now i barely have a line in test window (i do have line in control window) i am really upset and worried 2 anovulatory cycles in 9, 22%!!
To make matters worse this cycle i have sore nipples and heavy feeling boobs.
Please is there any advice , opinions etc on this? How can i help myself and prevent these? Diet, food wise etc..?

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[atomic sagebrush]

Did you get your period in April?

CD18-20 is still in normal range for ovulation. I wouldn't worry just yet.

You can still ovulate without getting a positive OPK. I would have unprotected sex every 4 days and keep testing.

Let me look over your diet again and see if anything jumps out at me.

[atomic sagebrush]

So you are telling me you are eating 2000 cals and burning off 2500? And you are losing weight? What is your current weight, how much have you lost, and how fast are you losing weight?

[sofkay]

Im steadily losing weight. And yes i eat about 2000 burn about 2500 this is average not every days same sometimes i burn 1000. However weight loss is steady not dropping off but i am losing as i tend to have very good and also very bad days

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[sofkay]

Sorry to add april i had a weird period.. 2 days brown spotting never happened and a 6 day period (very long!) I typically have 4

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[sofkay]

Since end May - end August now i lost 8lbs

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[sofkay]

Like to add, i have previously take FSH home urine tests and they have been negative on cd:3. out of worry i just took 1 and it was also negative.

**also also, i for first time have a semi tender cervix to touch & have had a lot! of ovulation cramping. its been a very weird and unusual cycle.

I am taking 15mg zinc and 400mg folic at the moment

My CM has just switched from watery to very obvious thick/creamy

[sofkay]

Can i also get an opinion on having porridge for breakfast? is this good / bad for both sway and overal health for fertility?
is this better / worse then a breakfast cereal for sway / overal health?

[atomic sagebrush]

Im steadily losing weight. And yes i eat about 2000 burn about 2500 this is average not every days same sometimes i burn 1000. However weight loss is steady not dropping off but i am losing as i tend to have very good and also very bad days

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What's your BMI? (or weight and height)

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry to add april i had a weird period.. 2 days brown spotting never happened and a 6 day period (very long!) I typically have 4

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I'm not totally following what you're saying here but if you had at least 1 day of bright red flow around when you were supposed to, it's likely you ovulated even without a clear pos OPK and super obvious temp shift. If you didn't, if it was just brown spotting, then yes it's true you likely didn't O that month.

[atomic sagebrush]

Since end May - end August now i lost 8lbs

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That's not too fast a rate of weight loss for most people, but can u tell me your starting weight, finishing weight, and height (or BMI if you know it) so I can see if you've gotten too thin?

[sofkay]

Hi atomic, thank you for all advice so far.. i just want to clarify a final few things both for sway and conception purposes..

1. which is best breakfast for swaying/conception? toast + butter, cheese on toast or yoghurt and fruit.. what are your opinions on all 3 for conception/sway girl purposes?
2. how many portions of fish, other meat (beef,lamb,chicken, turkey) should i aim for a week
3. am i swaying if i am burning calories. for example.. it could be too low for me to be doing 1500-1800 on some days...
4. is there anything you can recommend to make cm friendly that doesnt badly effect sway / conception?

[atomic sagebrush]

For anyone with possible insulin resistance issues (and I think you are in this group as per our convo via PM) full fat yogurt and fruit is best option. Toast and butter is least good as it's just too many carbs without protein to balance it out. The cheese toast is in between.

Did I post this link for you already?? It has a lot more explanation about the alternate type of diet you need to be on. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

I can't tell you a set number of servings of anything to have. You need to stick in the overall limits for the day and in those limits you have freedom to do what you want and eat what you want (and I mean the limits of the alternate diet, which will be higher in fat and protein and many people do have meat every day on that!)

If you are eating less than you were before, then yes you are swaying pink. It's not so much about burning calories, it's the nutrient content of your diet as a whole that matters. Many of our swayers are on 1800-2000 cals a day. Some even go above that. What counts is that you've reduced calorie, fat, protein intake from what it was before (but due to the potential insulin resistance you also need to do that without loading up too much on super carby foods, either.)

The best thing you can do for your CM right here and now is follow a sway diet and exercise. I suspect that your CM is hostile (if it is, many people assume it's their CM when they aren't conceiving for other reasons) due to hormonal imbalance and you're moving in the right direction with what you're doing already. The best way to fix hormonal issues is to control them with diet and exercise and better yet, it fixes ALL the hormonal issues and not just a Band Aid for the CM (which for all we know is not the problem here).

You can stay hydrated by drinking a good level of water a day and avoiding alcohol which may be drying. (even tho alcohol can be good for a pink sway I think you'll be better off without it.)

Have we discussed Myoinositol and cinnamon??

[sofkay]

Never heared of M....? and no we havent about Cinnimon

Bit confused over insulin and pcos. I dont seem to have either.. ive always been tested for diabetes and never diagnosed with it, re: pcos i dont think i have it? Can never be sure tho.. but i do ovulate semi regually my cycles are 30-34 days long, they have only recently shortened due to what i think is weight loss

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[sofkay]

Also. So i understand.. if out of two cheese on toast is "better" then toast and butter? For sway/conception?
I understand yoghurt and fruit is no1 just want some backup breakfasts as well

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[3littleladies01]

Sorry to hikack but was reading this with interest as I’m swaying blue (so doing opposite) - what does SMEP you both refer too? Atomic you mention this sways blue - What does it mean?
Sorry if I’m being stupid!
Thanks


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[sofkay]

SMEP is dtd every 2 days and on positive opk doing 3 days in a row 1 day off and then final try


SMEP - Sperm Meets Egg Plan (http://spermmeetseggplan.com)

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[3littleladies01]

Thanks so much for the quick response! That’s pretty hardcore [emoji23][emoji23] but thanks so much for the info. I did a failed sway with 3 attempts at OPK but didn’t do the every other day from AF - will defo look into it for this time. Thanks again x


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[atomic sagebrush]

Never heared of M....? and no we havent about Cinnimon

Bit confused over insulin and pcos. I dont seem to have either.. ive always been tested for diabetes and never diagnosed with it, re: pcos i dont think i have it? Can never be sure tho.. but i do ovulate semi regually my cycles are 30-34 days long, they have only recently shortened due to what i think is weight loss

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You are very likely to have tendencies towards PCOS and definitely are insulin resistant and for both reasons you need to be on the alternate diet and make the changes I describe above.

I suggest trying this supplement or a similar product containing myoinositol. https://www.pregnitude.com/ 2 sachets from CD 1-ovulation, 1 sachet from ovulation till arrival of your period, and whenever you get BFP please gradually wean off by spacing doses further and further out till down to one per week, then drop it.

Cinnamon, please eat 1/2 teaspoon (this is a quite small amount, don't exceed this) daily stirred into foods or drinks (does not need to be all at once, just this much per day) of Ceylon cinnamon (ONLY use ceylon, no other kinds. you may have to buy this from a health food store) Do the 1/2 teaspoon from CD 1- ovulation, 1/4 teaspoon from ovulation to your period arriving, wean off to dietary amounts at BFP. If you notice any bleeding, bruising, or extra heavy periods developing please cut this back by half, and if it continues, wean off it totally. Don't ever stop cinnamon in particular without weaning off it (dietary amounts of course are fine)

Please note, anyone else reading this, myoinositol and cinnamon are not for everyone and are really only for maybe 5% of all swayers.

[atomic sagebrush]

Also. So i understand.. if out of two cheese on toast is "better" then toast and butter? For sway/conception?
I understand yoghurt and fruit is no1 just want some backup breakfasts as well

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yes, cheese on toast (or even just cheese! I often eat just cheese and coffee or tea for breakfast) is better than toast and butter since the protein in the cheese will mitigate sharp rises in your blood sugar.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks so much for the quick response! That’s pretty hardcore [emoji23][emoji23] but thanks so much for the info. I did a failed sway with 3 attempts at OPK but didn’t do the every other day from AF - will defo look into it for this time. Thanks again x


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If your hubby can't do every other day, that's fine. We often have blue swayers (who do not believe in Shettles timing, that is) have regular unprotected sex every 2-4 days starting as far in advance of sway as possible. This is also what many of us who have lots of boys do as a matter of course - unprotected sex when not fertile, using birth control or pullout around O when we aren't trying to conceive, when we are TTC we just BD thru O.

Regular exposure to the hormones in your hubby's semen may make you more boy-friendly. It may also make him make larger batches of sperm (which sway blue). So if you can let go of Shettles, it may really help up your chances of a boy.

[3littleladies01]

If your hubby can't do every other day, that's fine. We often have blue swayers (who do not believe in Shettles timing, that is) have regular unprotected sex every 2-4 days starting as far in advance of sway as possible. This is also what many of us who have lots of boys do as a matter of course - unprotected sex when not fertile, using birth control or pullout around O when we aren't trying to conceive, when we are TTC we just BD thru O.

Regular exposure to the hormones in your hubby's semen may make you more boy-friendly. It may also make him make larger batches of sperm (which sway blue). So if you can let go of Shettles, it may really help up your chances of a boy.

Thanks atomic - I’m defo not a shettles advocat! Number 2 girly was a failed shettles (that now I obviously wouldn’t change for the world) and the more I learn the more I just don’t buy his timing methods. I did however ask a couple of questions about this on my own thread that hopefully you can help me with.

When I said it’s hardcore - I didn’t mean for hubby (he’ll be in his element!) I meant for me [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Thanks for all your help x


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[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh no kidding, right???? :rofl:

[sofkay]

Hi atomic is myionistol (cant spell) basically B8 / Ionitol and that as a supplement would be ok? This helps achieve better egg quality? Why does this work more favourable to coq10?

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[atomic sagebrush]

Myoinositol is a better form of inositol for our purposes.

It helps lower your blood sugar and thus in turn help make healthier eggs. It can help improve your insulin response and will over the course of time make it easier for your body to take weight off and to keep blood sugar in normal range.

you can also still take coq10 if you'd like. I have not found coq10 to be very helpful at all for egg quality even though I do have people use it. Myoinositol is better proven and works more effectively for improving insulin response.

[sofkay]

hi atomic, i have started taking the my-ionistol sorry i cant spell. i am taking equivalent of 1000mg a day. i hope this is correct, it says i should take double that. im inclined not to for now as i dont think i have pcos and my cycles are very regular especially at the moment and so i dont want to mess them about too much, i am however unsure on my egg quality so i am taking purely for that really :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I want you on only 1000 mg. I think 2000 is too much for most people.

[sofkay]

hi again, just wondered what this will do worst case sinario? say i have zero signs of pcos and have started taking 1000mg of myo-iniostol... will i potentially ovulate earlier/later? what effects will it have?

[atomic sagebrush]

It will do nothing harmful at that intake for you. It might change your ovulation a little. Some people lose tons of weight or if they're taking much higher doses have negative effect but that's why I give it only to certain people in certain amounts.

As per our conversation in private message there is no way you don't have some underlying tendencies with insulin resistance. It's just how the human body works. REgardless of PCOS the myo helps with egg quality and insulin resistance.

If you don't want to take it, don't take it. I am not here to argue or talk you into doing things you don't want to do or taking things you don't want to take. Please leave it out if you have any doubts about it.

[sofkay]

Hi atomic no im happy to take it just want to be prepared for potential early ovulation..if that can happen with this

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[sofkay]

And i am more then happy to help with egg quality ..! To do anything to help with it if its a issue. Its actually a tasteless powder and im happy taking it at the present :) just wanted to check and be aware of potentially earlier ovulation

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[sofkay]

Hi atomic. Another question since i used to have orange juice with 100% vitamin C .. is it ok / recomended i take a vitamin c supplement? Will this help/hinder sway for girl and help/hinder conception? How many mg is recommended?
Thanks so much as ever :)

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[atomic sagebrush]

I don't recommend Vit. C supplements for pink swayers unless they really really can't give up on the pH idea. i think nutrients tend to sway blue and if you can stand to live without them, that's my preference.

No more than 500 mg max as higher dose C supplements may cause miscarriage.

[sofkay]

Hi looking for futher advice.. ff had me as ovulating day 16 now changed its mind and said day 19! Obviously this pits me 'out' this cycle as i stopped trying after day 16.. tbh i just couldnt b bothered to carry on e4/d.
Is also like to add i no longer get positive opks, this is second cycle so its impacting tries so i cant do e4/d and try on positive opk if i never get that positive opk. So what can i do for nxt cycle? I will be cycle 11 nxt month not happy about that now and getting worried.
Also the creamy cm i state as having day 16 was pos watery i remember i wasnt sure what to put it as so went creamy. Cervix today was SHOW (weird!) and super watery and a lot so cause of whole ff changing etc did an attempt today.
thanks for any help :)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181013/230d7a39cdbe190d3ca93ef23083dcfd.jpg

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[Pbn3]

Hi just jumping in here because I seen a question about ff crosshairs. To me your chart is currently looking like you've experienced a fallback rise which is actually quite common and something I personally experienced for many cycles. I would go with o being when you originally thought (cant remember exactly what cd that was) and not what ff has crosshairs on. It may shift again on its own or if its bothering you try changing the analysis method though your settings?

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[sofkay]

Hi thank you. I have never had a fallback rise before in 10 cycles so was confused by it. I do know my temps tho and day 16+ and all days after are my post O temps.. so you think cd16 no cd19?

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[Pbn3]

I would say both are possible but yes personally I'd be leaning more towards cd16 as o day at this stage. It will of course depend on more temps though...

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[Pbn3]

And I also recall feelong very frustrated at all of a sudden experiencing fallback rises... went from textbook temp rise comfirming o to fallback rise every cycle...

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[sofkay]

What are fallback raises? Why would it happen? Could it happen i had a 3dpo temp dip but still O at same point?

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[Pbn3]

A fallback rise is simy a dip back in temp post o for 1-3 days'ish. I don't know the reasons why, only that it does happen and can at any given time... the pic I've attached shows a couple examples [emoji4]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181013/0349e9a7fb532ff16da9cbc2414cc836.jpg

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[sofkay]

Thanks for all your help :) :D

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[sofkay]

Another pic chart.. so 15-16 temps on high side breaking 98.00 day 14 is typical 97.90 range pre O..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181013/b32233689c39df074e2d63acf42afb12.jpg

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[atomic sagebrush]

Well, that's why I do like you guys to keep trying after you think you've ovulated.

So you did try? GREAT! Because I'm not convinced you ovulated yet due to this big temp dip. I often see people have stairstep patterns where their temps go up, then go up, then go up and only afer the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th rise do they finally ovulate!

Because you're so zoomed in on the pic you posted I can't totally get a good picture of the rest of the month - could you repost a larger version so I could see earlier in the month and the temp range on the rt. side of the chart?

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok see the pic that pbn has posted above?? See how they say "it's also possible that they had a fluke high temp CD 21 and then Oed on CD 22??" I think that is just as likely as a fallback rise so I deffo want you to keep going with the BD now!!

[atomic sagebrush]

oh and to have another attempt if you aren't getting pos OPK, then you can either have another attempt when u think you are getting close to O (like a big surge of high libido) OR you can just have 2 attempts every 4 days (so you'd BD on Wed, Thurs and then count from Thurs for the E4d, if that makes sense.

[sofkay]

My chart this month. Embarrased of it really as such a fail try wise!
See typically i would hover between 97.90/98.00 max pre O the anything 98.20+ is after O..
I only temped from whatever day it was as others were too ill :(
Also where i put EWCM think being bit to generous to cm here as was watery had very! small stretchyness so though ah lets go ewcm cause eek never had even slight smallest bit stretchy also all creamys and creamy on day 16 pretty sure heinsight are watery when im torn between creamy and watery i put creamy and on second thoughts no so sure it was creamy especially not day 16 day 16 i remember really not being sure..!

Attempt wise pls explain again confused!

And atleast i learnt now not to go souly by temps & think broke 98.20 must have O. As like i said in 9 cycles this being 10th i never experienced ithttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181015/7b82e3e4408ce0c44d6c1ad153babc8c.jpg

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[atomic sagebrush]

It's really important to keep going with attempts even after you think you've Oed.

Start temping after your period ends. Once you get expert in temping you don't have to temp every day any more but beginners need to have more temps than expert tempers do.

I see this type of chart all the time. A dip then small rise, a dip then small rise, and only after the 3rd or 4th dip/rise does O finally occur.

Yep you can't go off temps becuase it is the pattern that matters and not just a temp. Some of us run cooler than others and our overall temp can vary by the month so you have to look at the overall pattern.

What you need to do for attempts is to have sex every 4 days. That way no matter what you will have a chance at the egg. Then if you want to boost chances even more, do the OPK and have one more attempt at positive OPK. OR, you can do the two attempts every 4 days like I mentioned in the previous post!

[sofkay]

Hi thank you. Yes learned a bit of a lesson. I have been temping for atleast 7 cycles so do have a good idea now generally of my temps just couldnt do it straight after period as was sick a lot.. for a few days.
I still think there is a greater jump at cd:16 personally but then again i never experienced a fallback raise and dip again at what is either 6dpo or 3dpo
Yes for some reason i now dont get positive opks & think i should come to not expect any positive opks now on..

Thanks for all advice so far..! :)

We had bit of a bad month trying as dh sick after me as well etc.. lol like it was never meant this month which is sad :(

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[sofkay]

On second thoughts and remembering this cycle... I had a very close positive on opks on either cd: 14 or 15 it wasnt 100% positive and nothing like my normal positives at all it was is it / isnt it same colour??? but day after that and all before was a straight easy negative as there was no line at all in test line. I just didnt note it as a positive at cd:14 or 15 as i wasnt sure.. but it was closest i seen for 2 cycles.. it was either the friday (think was friday) or saturday as i pressed a attempt on quickly and dh couldnt perform and we got into a small arguement as its typical where if i tell him its time he cant do it.. (need to not tell him its time from now on as he was conviniently fine to perform the sunday and i remember being glad there was no temp jump between to show too late.. wish i had noted it as a positive opk now but like i said i really wasnt sure was a hold up to light is it? isnt it? same colour dunno type positive whereas before i got such obvious positives. But yes all my other negatives i put on chart are so negative there wasnt even a line in test part. Hope that helps some what

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[atomic sagebrush]

It doesn't matter if it's a greater rise or not. It matters what the overall pattern of the cycle is and comparing the pre-O temps to the post O. I see the stairstep rises far more often than post-O fallbacks.

Some people never get a classic positive on OPK and go off the almost positive instead.

The best rule of thumb is, when in doubt, have attempt. Because at least you'll have had an attempt! But you can also do the things we already talked about instead and not use the OPK if you feel they're just adding confusion.

[sofkay]

Hi atomic im on cd:27 right now and starting spotting. IF fallback rise is true & i did ovulated cd:19 not cd:16, but i personally still kinda believe cd:16 more then i am 9 dpo. I have some really bad af cramps (hense went to check cervix got that bad to find pink/red spotting!!)
I think this shows either 1. Fallback rise was false and i am 12 dpo so a normal luteral phase of 12 dpo
And if i did O cd:19 only 9 days lateral phase

[sofkay]

Update of chart this morning...
As youll see if O cd:19 only a 9 day latural phase never been so short!
Also temp is still high at 98.40 and i have af now..:(
Cycle no11 begins.
Only thing did different this month was start myo-iniostol and take guafensin for 5 days prior to O.
Opinions, thank youhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181020/cfd032814bcb7f93435d6be12053deef.jpg

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[sofkay]

Hey Atomic,
This is the myo ionistol product i am using. Opinions? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181020/47985b70f6931a480cee74d1a6775348.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181020/2937d438a7cac2c472aabed4204d7864.jpg

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[atomic sagebrush]

Please leave your cervix alone, there's no reason to check it ever.

Do you have a pregnancy test? I think you need to take it before taking the myoinositol this month. You can be pregnant and have what appears to be a period (this actually happened to me personally, not a crazy friend of a friend story). That high a temp deserves a pregnancy test! :)

I still can't tell when you ovulated based on this chart. Either possibility is, well, possible LOL, and it could be that we're all wrong and it was in between then. It's just not that kind of classic chart where we know clearly what transpired.

The good news is, it doesn't matter because of the e4d. No matter what you'll be covered with the e4d. And then if you wanted to try the two attempts when you think you're ovulating (either at positive oPK or just back to back) that will boost your chances even more.

[sofkay]

Thanks aromic.

Temps r weird agree. Normally i see typical plummet, however af yesterday and today is so heavy (standard af for first 2 days) i cant see it being a pregnancy.! And if it was id think it wasnt there anymore or theres a problem. (If i make sense).

Ill temp again when isnt heavy as gross.

I figured u was supposed to check cervix area and cm? Reason i checked it when had cramps was cause it was so painful it had to be af, sadly was right.

out of interest why would for example sat,sun, (mon,tue off) wed,thur etc etc. Sway better then just doing every 2 days? Surely over a week you are doing same amount of attempts that way as doing every other day? Just thinking of it from a amount of tries perspective here. :)



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[sofkay]

To check further the myo iniostol i take and attached above is fine? Even with folic in it?

I take this, zinc (15mg) and folic acid (400mg)

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[atomic sagebrush]

I had a massively heavy, 5 day "period" (my normal period is 3 days) and would have sworn on my children's lives that I couldn't possibly be pregnant. But I had a healthy 8 lb baby 9 months later!!

There is NO reason to check cervix or CM unless you're using natural family planning to avoid pregnancy. Your cervix can be easily injured and will bleed a lot at certain times of the month, and if you are pregnant every time you mess with your cervix you run the risk of introducing microorganisms that can cause infection and pregnancy loss.

It doesn't sway better than DTD every 2 days. It is better for odds of conception.

Having sex every other day can easily end up being O-4, O-2, and O Day. In this scenario, O-4 is too early, O Day can be too late, leaving you really with only one viable attempt in the fertile window. Or you end up with O-5, (too early) O-3 (possible, but longshot), O-1 - still really only one attempt. It makes no difference if you have X number of attempts in a week if most of them are too early to do anything. Has nothing to do with swaying, it has to do with improving odds of conception. NOrmally I'd have you do e4d plus another at pos OPK but you aren't getting those, so I was trying to come up with a way for you to boost conception despite not getting the pos OPK.

[sofkay]

Thanks again Atomic. Sorry i hate this ttc stuff! Ill check temp again tomorrow and see but seems a long shot but be wow if was so haha :) x

So you think 2 days on 2 days off has better odds then every other day? How would i do that? So for example say starting cd:10/11 (12,13) cd: 14/15 (16,17) cd:18/19 etc...

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[atomic sagebrush]

Well, I'd prefer you did every 4 days with one additional attempt at positive OPK but I understand that's not going to happen if the OPK aren't working. :)

Yes exactly only I'd start even sooner if possible. If not, that's the very latest I'd leave it.

By doing it that way the CD 10 would cover you thru CD 12, CD 11 would cover thru CD 13, then by the time CD 14 rolls around time for another attempt, if that makes sense. This is not a method I have used much in the past but for someone who needs to boost conception beyond e4d but whom OPK are not working, it makes sense to me.

[sofkay]

Hi atomic. Once again ive been met with AF this morning and last months tries we very good. We did -3,-1 and day of O. (In fertile window) i got 3 positive opks have definately ovulated etc. Loosing a bit of will and thinking might not ever happen. On cycle no 12 now. :'(
I am taking 400mg folic
15mg zinc
Myo-ionistol

I think now its all about just conceving i no longer care for if its a boy or girl and i think for some reason sperm isnt getting to egg or something isnt working!! :( My cm is quite acidic when ive taken past tests its been ph 4.

Thanks for any help or advice me! (oh also any supplements recommended for dh?)

[atomic sagebrush]

Did you continue having every 4 day attempts both before and after you think you ovulated?? If not, do.

What was DH doing for release whne you weren't attempting? Does he do anything like wear tight underwear, ride a bike or jog, is he on any medication?

I'm going to reread our past exchanges and see if anything is jumping out to me.

I would have you add in either guaifenesin OR Preseed this upcoming month.

[atomic sagebrush]

Is he still on the Wellman's? Some of the stuff in the Wellmans I actually think is harmful to sperm.

[atomic sagebrush]

It may be time to go to SMEP as per our previous conversation. If you do, then in that case I would NOT add in guaifenesin or Preseed and just do SMEP.

[sofkay]

We did every 4 days until got positive opk then i did slip a few extra tries in there cause got bit anxious of no baby so far...

No he doesnt wear tight underwear or anything like that.

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[sofkay]

OK ill look into doing SMEP.. is it worth me tho focusing attempts around O instead of all the time? Like SMEP wants 3 days row at +opk and he cannot perform 3 days in a row been there tried it in past.. :(

Is there a supplement worth him taking?

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[sofkay]

Can i also ask what is likely "not happening / going wrong" in terms of why not getting pregnant?

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[atomic sagebrush]

We did every 4 days until got positive opk then i did slip a few extra tries in there cause got bit anxious of no baby so far...

No he doesnt wear tight underwear or anything like that.

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Ok. Sorry to keep repeating myself but please keep doing this all month long even if you don't think it's necessary.

Has he ever had a sperm analysis done?

Re SMEP, if he can't DTD that often, then just do what he can do.

I can't tell you what is going wrong here. Some of the things you were doing in the past were not conducive to conception and it may be that we've made the right changes but the right sperm just hasn't met the right egg yet. Occasionally, though, when we've gone on a long time not getting pregnant, we've found that there was some male factor infertility or endometriosis/other physical issues preventing conception and so it may be time to consider having things checked out now.

[sofkay]

hi atomic another month where af has just come! temps were sky high this morning and had gone up 0.2, basically chart does not look like a af coming chart :(

any further advice at all you could give? this coming december cycle marks us at a year, as in it is officially a year ago this cycle we started ttc. as last year i had af 10th december and then started ttc.

i am taking:
folic 400mg
zinc 15mg
myo-ionistol 1000mg, it also has folic in it, a 100ug dose (i take 1 scoop a day not 2)

thats all we do supplement wise.

I took Guaifenesin last month, but didnt use concieve plus.. to be honest i have used conceive plus lube all cycles up to this but wanted to see what would happen should i have a month off of using it

Any advice would be great. I know its becoming less likely for me now tho.

**edit: we did do a home sperm test on dh, swimcount, which apparently counts the number of motile sperm as opposed to just sperm.. https://www.myswimcount.co.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlcG9vM6m3wIVzL3tCh2mag8rEAAYASA AEgI7svD_BwE
he got the top result which is normal high, if i can recall right, more then 20million motile sperm

[sofkay]

To add further..
Can i take coq10 & myo iniostol together? Is it worth it? What dose of each is recomended?
Can you recomend anything to help with what is potentially a hostile cm issue?

Thanks so much in advanced

[atomic sagebrush]

Hmm are temps still very high?? Can you post a chart for me to look at?

Yes you can take coq10 and myo together at the same time. Totally fine to do that.

Good news on the sperm count although sometimes there are things that we need an expert to determine. I would keep trying with the SMEP or the e4d plus one more at pos OPK and with the guaifenesin and/or Conceive Plus.

Until we've had you checked I don't think you can assume that this is a hostile CM issue. That's about the least likely and I'd want you to rule out blocked tubes now.

[sofkay]

40914
40915

Hi.. temps are lowering now tho which i suppose is a good thing?
How many mg coq10 is best?
What symptoms would show blocked tubes?

I cannot go to drs now till new years to be honest. Have to try and enjoy xmas as much as i can :(
Also i was told from someone today i shouldnt count all my cycles for ttc, technically this is cycle 13 now but . I had 1 anovulatory and 2 where tries were 'bad' one -5 one +1 due to factors outside my contol

[sofkay]

should i up myo -iniostol to 2 scoops a day? making it 2000mg a day?
how many mg of coq10 is advisable?
thank you for any advice in advanced, i will go for testing needs be in the new year

[atomic sagebrush]

Symptoms don't tell you if you've got blocked tubes. Only an ultrasound. It's not necessary to go to the doc if you don't want to, of course, but that's the next step here. It's not super common to have blocked tubes, but also not super rare either and def. something to rule out.

By the time you get to 13+ cycles it really doesn't matter if it was 10/11 technically or 13. It's time to call in backup, LOL. I would tell the doc 13 cycles as they'll be even more inclined to help you.

RE the myo - you're ovulating, so I don't think that's the problem here and I"d not have you add more.

Coq10 - 200-400 mg

[sofkay]

Thanks Atomic,

I will do a dr trip Jan if required

Doesnt myo help egg quality? If im correct, it takes 3 months to take effect on a egg quality?

Does coq10 effect ovulation would the 200-400mg dose have more impact on egg quality then the myo does?

[sofkay]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Enzyme-Q10-CoQ10-300mg-Capsules/dp/B01KKDXFAI/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1545417662&sr=8-1-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=coq10+200mg&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00Z1DZ28Q/ref=mp_s_a_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1545417698&sr=8-3&keywords=coq10+500mg&dpPl=1&dpID=41DowxirX3L&ref=plSrch

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Enzyme-Q10-300mg-Capsules-Manufactured/dp/B07CRP4RZL/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1545417736&sr=8-1-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=coq10+300mg&psc=1

Which one of these is best? My concern is some of the ingrediants listed as well as the coq10 itsself?

Am i best to just do myo or do coq10 as well? Is myo better then coq10 for egg quality?

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks Atomic,

I will do a dr trip Jan if required

Doesnt myo help egg quality? If im correct, it takes 3 months to take effect on a egg quality?

Does coq10 effect ovulation would the 200-400mg dose have more impact on egg quality then the myo does?

Yes, myo can help egg qualtiy but it doesn't mean that more is better.

People always say "3 months" but the truth is that no one really knows and what the myo does is about more than egg quality. It's about improving your blood sugar and insulin response to alleviate PCO tendencies and keep you ovulating regularly and that happens right away.

We don't know if coq10 is more or less effective than myo. Just don't have that kind of data. Lots of people use them both.

Any of those coq10 are fine.

I think you're getting a bit too hung up on the idea of egg quality. We don't know that this is an issue of egg quality and that's why it is a good idea to get a look inside to see what is going on. Egg quality is only one part of the equation and generally it's more important for people who are 40+. At 29 it is quite unlikely your egg quality is poor. Possible, but not at all likely. When younger women are having trouble conceiving the majority of the time it's due to other reasons like blocked tubes, PCOS, unusually shaped uterus, autoimmune disease, or male factor infertility. I mention this because I don't want you going on and on doing things to "improve egg quality" (very few of which actually work, BTW) and/or adding more and more herbs and spices to supposedly fix egg quality when that is very possibly not even the problem here.

[sofkay]

Hi Atomic, thank you once again for your feedback.
so in your opinion i shouldnt focus on adding coq10 at the moment and leave it be with just the myo, zinc and folic?
thank you

[atomic sagebrush]

No I'm fine with you adding the coq10, I just don't want you to assume that since you've started it, you don't need to have those followup tests done, because I seriously doubt this is an egg quality issue and may be something very easily fixed.

[Mum4life]

It wouldn’t hurt to go to the doctors and get some blood tests and maybe an u/s done just to make sure there’s nothing too obvious or easily fixed going on. From your charts it does look like you’re ovulating, but sometimes it just takes people a little longer than average to conceive. Don’t get too hung up on if it’s been exactly 12 months. Just tell your doctor that is has been even if it’s been 11 months. As atomic said egg quality is such a small part of the whole conceiving equation and I also doubt very much that it is egg quality.

My ttc and pregnancy journeys would take too long to tell, but you sound a lot like me years ago when we were ttc and I’d get hung up on a certain train of thought and become obsessed with it. Not saying that you are obsessed but you remind me of myself lol. I’m a type a personality, and try and control everything which is probably a large part of why I have 4 boys haha.

At this point I would just keep doing what you’re doing, don’t add or take anything else away and get some basic tests done. Your attempts look good for pregnancy to me, as does everything else.