Another HELP TTC PINK! :)

[dreaminginpink]

Ok I have yet another question...I'm learning so much here! My sway attempt as been aspertame everything, low everything(lazy because I've lost quite a bit of weight and I'm afraid I may stop o'ing), no food till after noon, supplements(baby aspirin, folic acid, zertec, vitex) and I've been using vaginal douches (vinegar) and rephresh to keep my ph low. Now I'm learning that there are ph opposites (oy!)

Last night was "do or die"...haha! I ovulated yesterday. My husband and I have been TTC for a couple of months now, but I was dtd 2-3 days before ovulation and in combo with the vinegar douches, we were not getting pg. I wanted to get in a little closer to "o" this month. Last night we DTD (ovulated yesterday). I checked my ph before dtd and it was 4.5, not very much of it...in fact dtd was a little bit painful. Afterwards I checked my ph again and it was 7.5! OY!! I read to check ph after intercourse to keep that ph as low as possible. I slept with a vinegar tampon in last night and this morning, CM is very dry and sticky again and PH is low. Here's my question

1. So if you check your CM after dtd, aren't you picking up some of your DH's "stuff" too? So like his should be around 7.5ish for a girl right? So like if I check my CM after intercourse, it doesn't need to be at a 4.5, but rather I'm looking at DH's ph? Or mine and his combined? I'm confused about that...it just doesn't seem like I would get a good reading after intercourse for MY CM?

2. Does it matter after intercourse if you O'd yesterday? For instance, the sperm start swimming immediately...so once they make it into the cervix, does the ph of your CM even matter at that point?

Thank you all in advance for answering all of my questions. I know they must seem so petty, but I'm learning! I'm HOPING I didn't screw up this sway last night :)

[Zivic-Bubac]

this morning, CM is very dry and sticky again and PH is low. Here's my question

1. So if you check your CM after dtd, aren't you picking up some of your DH's "stuff" too? So like his should be around 7.5ish for a girl right? So like if I check my CM after intercourse, it doesn't need to be at a 4.5, but rather I'm looking at DH's ph? Or mine and his combined? it just doesn't seem like I would get a good reading after intercourse for MY CM?

After intercourse you can only check your combined pH.
You need to check your CM BEFORE BD.

If you have so low pH, combine pH is always going to be higher bcos pH of sperm is higher.

2. Are you trying for O+12?
Sperm need 4 hours to capacitate before they ar eable to fertilize the egg.

[Zivic-Bubac]

Maybe this might help :) http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-discussion/2065-how-check-ph-dh-dw.html

[dreaminginpink]

ahh, thank you so much, that was a great read! I read it once before, but it helped to read it again also :) I'm not really sure what "method" we are going for as far as timing. We WERE trying for shettles (2-3 days before o), but it wasn't working because we weren't getting pg. Someone mentioned that I was trying too hard because the vinegar douches were likely killing off all the sperm before I even got around to oing. So this month we decided that we'd get in a little closer to the big "o". :) I'm not even familiar with how O+12 works? I should google that.

" Sperm need 4 hours to capacitate before they ar eable to fertilize the egg." - So you mean I needed to have a low ph before hand? I've kept a pretty low ph - around 4.5-5. The only time it deviated away from that was after intercourse, and I was sure that was because it was a mixture of the two. This is soooo hard because you read SO many different things in between the general internet and here. I should just stick to staying around here so I can get at least consistent info! LOL! :)

So with my ph remaining low (even today) should I feel safe with my sway? Today, CM is VERY dry, sticky and almost non existent. I'm just not sure that today would even matter since it's likely that the sperm have already made their way up through the cervix.....right??? I'm so confused!

[atomic sagebrush]

Using both douche and RepHresh may not be the best because RepHresh is designed to keep pH at 4.5-5 and if you mix in something very low in pH, the RepHresh will jsut react with it to bring pH up.

pH after DTD is SUPPOSED to rise. That's normal. If you are using RepHresh, it will bring the pH back down. I'm not sure if it got too diluted, or if you tested too soon and it hadn't had time to react or what. Personally I prefer if you do NOT test pH after DTD if you use RepHresh because it just makes you obsess over thing you have no control over anyway. Sperm leaves your vagina within 5 minutes after sex and at ovulation it doesn't even stay in the cervical crypts either, it doesn't hang around to be affected by vinegar tampons all night. The claim that IG makes that a lime tampon lowers your pH up inside your fallopian tubes is nonsense.

DTD 2-3 days before O with one attempt and douching, that may as well be birth control! :agree: with moving attempt closer to O.

1)Yes, you are def. picking up the semen pH which is SUPPOSED to be in the 7's. That is normal. Some people have gotten their DH pH lower than that temporarily but it's very unusual. You are looking not for YOUR pH after intercourse, but the combined pH. pH after intercourse - it is debatable what it is "supposed" to be. On IG they want you to lower it to the 4's-5's with lime juice but I think that makes it very hard to get pg at all (kills off the sperm.) Most of the baby girls ever conceived on the planet were NOT done using lime and with pH more in th normal range.

Again, personally I think it's best to skip the vinegar, use RepHresh, and just trust that the RepHresh will do what it is designed to do and lower hte pH of the semen and CM back down to 4.5-5 over the course of a few min.

2)Not quite following this q, but if you Oed yesterday, unless you released two eggs, you have very little chance of pg. Regardless of what they say on IG, most eggs only live 12-24 hours and sperm take 4 hours if not longer to capacitate and reach the egg.

If you are asking what I ~think~ you're asking, I do not believe that what they say on IG (that you can lower pH throughout your repro tract, including up into the fallopian tubes by using lime douche/tampon in the vagina) is in any way true or even possible. Every square millimeter of your repro tract is churning out high pH CM at ovulation, and that the pH in your vag could somehow invade through the cervix and permeate everywhere, is kinda silly to me. Like putting a drop of baking soda on your tongue - it may lower pH right where it touches temporarily, but it will not change the pH of your stomach acid in any appreciable way. Your body "wants" to keep things at a pH that is conducive to sperm and egg and that pH is NOT 4.

The sperm leave the vagina immediately and at O, they go even faster and farther. So the only things that can REALLY affect sperm for swaying purposes, have to be in the vag AT EJACULATION or immediately afterwards (like within seconds almost). Leaving a vinegar tampon in all night is not going to help you in any way.

I dont' think you screwed anything up other than lowering your odds of pg by quite a bit. Certainly didn't sway blue.

[dreaminginpink]

Darn! I just typed out a long response and it disappeared. Here's round two.

First off, thank you all so much for responding....I REALLY appreciate the help!!! SA, you are incredible and I appreciate the long explanation more than you'll know!

I'm glad we didn't sway blue at least! We'd like to deliver our last baby sometime in the late fall or early winter of next year, so we do have some time anyway. The cooler months wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit! ( grin) IF, by some miracle I'm assuming, we DID get pg this month then, I'd be ok since my ph had been low right before intercourse then right? And so let me get this straight...it really doesn't matter what your ph is like the day after intercourse (so say like you DTD the day bEFORE O) because the sperm will not stay in the vagina anyway? So the MOST important part of the cycle is making sure the vagina is acidic and dry within the 5 minutes after intercourse because that's when the y sperm will be incapacitated giving the x sperm time to get to the egg first....do I have that right? So what you do after that 5 minute time frame makes no difference, it's all about the environment before intercourse?

So as long as I kept my ph at around 4.5-5 and dry this go round if I DID happen to get pg, the sway would be more pink?

and for next month, I should skip vinegar all together and just use the rephresh. Do you recommend using that several times during the day....or once....or just enough to keep that ph at around 4.5-5? and keep taking the zyrtec to dry up CM? Does the amount of CM make a difference as long as it's acidic? I think I know the answer to this already because you just did a post on ph opposites that I read. The goal is to keep the vagina dry AND acidic? I've just had situations where I've had TONS of CM (this month actually a few days before o), but the ph was consistently around 4.5.

AGain, thank you both soooo much for taking the time to respond to my questions! I'm lost...but learning! :)

[dreaminginpink]

Oh and one more thing I wanted to make note of in case it's not too late. I assumed I o'd yesterday because I had the side pains (always...every month) but this morning I got a VERY positive O test. So that could mean that I really will (or have) O'd today right? In that case...did I sway pink? LOL....I'm not this stupid in real life, I promise!

[zanacal]

Anything which lowers fertility seems to sway pink - so less cervical mucus and hostile (acidic) cervical mucus will do that. On IG they believe low pH affects only boy sperm but AS's view is that it lowers sperm count overall (which we want to sway pink) by killing some of the sperm of both types.

Rephresh is designed to be used every 3 days - it adheres to the wall of the V so it keeps working every time something with a higher or lower pH is introduced during that time frame. I would aim to use the Rephresh the morning of your attempt or the morning of the day before your attempt, so it will still be working but won't do too much to prevent pregnancy. If you want to use another of the acid gels (like Replens or Aci-jel) an hour or so before your attempt then you can, you just can't use vinegar or lime with it (or douche at all because you may wash away the Rephresh).

You do not need to check your pH after you DTD and, in doing so, you may raise your testosterone levels which would be bad for a pink sway!

[carmella_marie]

Oh and one more thing I wanted to make note of in case it's not too late. I assumed I o'd yesterday because I had the side pains (always...every month) but this morning I got a VERY positive O test. So that could mean that I really will (or have) O'd today right? In that case...did I sway pink? LOL....I'm not this stupid in real life, I promise!

O pains are very unreliable. I don't trust them at all, they can be days before or after O. Only OPk's tell you you are about to ovulate (and you still might not) and only 3 high BBT prove that you did in fat acutally O. I have O pains at random times, and sometimes I will get two or even three different +OPK "patches" but the BBT don't lie. I usually don't get +OPK's the day after I O, but some people do. I start taking OPK's on CD 10 so I can see the fade in pattern. From comparing past month's OPK's and BBT, I know I usually O about 36 hours after that first +OPK. But like I said, sometimes my body gears up to O and I get +OPK's and then i get stressed and O is delayed a week and I get another set of +OPK's but O is confirmed by 3 high BBT.

[chocolate]

Hi, can I tag in here: So we have established that PH is most important at the time of the intercourse and the 5 mins after.

So for example, your PH is 4.5 to 5 when you dtd and 5 mins after, most of the sperm that get up through the cervix are hopefully girlies. You are then going to ovulate a day later or so. Your PH then goes up to 7. Does that re-activate any boy sperm? What happens to all the waiting sperm when your PH suddenly rises?

[zanacal]

Hi, can I tag in here: So we have established that PH is most important at the time of the intercourse and the 5 mins after.

So for example, your PH is 4.5 to 5 when you dtd and 5 mins after, most of the sperm that get up through the cervix are hopefully girlies. You are then going to ovulate a day later or so. Your PH then goes up to 7. Does that re-activate any boy sperm? What happens to all the waiting sperm when your PH suddenly rises?

This is the belief over on IG but it's not Atomic's belief (and it makes no sense to me either!). I believe pH simply lowers sperm count by killing some of the sperm - both XX and XY - and lower sperm count appears to sway pink. I think getting this obsessive about it has the potential to raise testosterone and that really does sway blue. I would be happy knowing that pH is lower if I'd been on the diet, taken baby aspirin and used one of the acid gels and I wouldn't feel the need to constantly check that because that may actually work against my sway. If you want to check how your body reacts to the various gels, it's a good idea to do it well in advance of your real attempt!

[zanacal]

Oh and one more thing I wanted to make note of in case it's not too late. I assumed I o'd yesterday because I had the side pains (always...every month) but this morning I got a VERY positive O test. So that could mean that I really will (or have) O'd today right? In that case...did I sway pink? LOL....I'm not this stupid in real life, I promise!

I don't believe timing in relation to O matters. There have been many studies on timing and each have come to different conclusions, which indicates that there's no correlation at all. Some studies actually conclude that more girls are conceived on O day. My girl was conceived on O day :D

[chocolate]

This is the belief over on IG but it's not Atomic's belief (and it makes no sense to me either!). I believe pH simply lowers sperm count by killing some of the sperm - both XX and XY - and lower sperm count appears to sway pink. I think getting this obsessive about it has the potential to raise testosterone and that really does sway blue. I would be happy knowing that pH is lower if I'd been on the diet, taken baby aspirin and used one of the acid gels and I wouldn't feel the need to constantly check that because that may actually work against my sway. If you want to check how your body reacts to the various gels, it's a good idea to do it well in advance of your real attempt!

ok, I just couldnt understand the sense of lowering PH when dtd if it then rose again before or around ovulation iuswim? But if its that it lowers sperm count that makes it much easier. I basically ate pasta and drank diet coke and did baby asprin and replens and my PH still rose around ovulation, but am confident in your version of the role of PH that it doesnt matter what my PH was around ovulation as it matter what it was at the time of dtd to lower the amount of sperm. Hope that theory is right because if the IG version is right then my sway will be flawed lol.

[zanacal]

They believe that you can lower the pH of your entire reproductive tract by lowering the pH of your V - but I don't buy that. The sperm have left your V within minutes of getting there and are hanging out in the crypts waiting for you to O so they can race off to try and fertilise your egg and I don't believe there's anything you can do with a gel or a douche to affect them once they're there - of course you can keep up the aspartame and the baby aspirin and that may make your cm more hostile and acidic so that even less make it to the egg, but if you have a long cut-off that may make it even more difficult to get pregnant.

[dreaminginpink]

ok, I just couldnt understand the sense of lowering PH when dtd if it then rose again before or around ovulation iuswim? But if its that it lowers sperm count that makes it much easier. I basically ate pasta and drank diet coke and did baby asprin and replens and my PH still rose around ovulation, but am confident in your version of the role of PH that it doesnt matter what my PH was around ovulation as it matter what it was at the time of dtd to lower the amount of sperm. Hope that theory is right because if the IG version is right then my sway will be flawed lol.

See, I guess this was what I was trying to say too. I could see lowering your ph up until dtd to lower sperm count (or deactivate boy sperm..however you want to look at it), but once that 5mins is up and they make it through the cervix and into the fallopian tube to meet the egg, then your pretty much finished with all the prep work. From there you can just rely on fate (and diet of course if you believe that diet affects which sperm the egg favors). Is that the right way of looking at it? THat's what I was asking all along. So really it makes no sense to continue on with checking your ph AFTER you've dtd and are just waiting to see if the egg was fertilized.

[atomic sagebrush]

Sperm needing 4 +hours to capacitate means nothing in terms of pH, what it means is that for those who are trying for O+12 (BD 12 hours after the egg is released) have to factor in that the sperm cannot even fertilize an egg until 4 hours after ejaculation, and in most cases, even longer.

I do not believe in O+12 and I think it makes it very tough to get pg, so I would prefer if you BD thru O or did a cutoff, maybe a shorter one than you were doing before.

There is no "feeling safe with my sway" unfortunately. Perfect sways fail all the time and you need to go in with a heart prepared for an opposite. Not trying to rain on the parade, I jsut need to be sure you know there are no guarantees. I conceived a baby boy with pH of 4.5 and no CM. :/

Vinegar douche and a long cutoff is basically birth control. People have gotten pg that way, but I suspect that the reason they got pg in Month X as opposed to Month Y is because something went a little awry in the month they conceived - they Oed a little early, they used a little less douche, they had more CM that month...

[atomic sagebrush]

Re sperm activating and reactivating:

The IG ladies think that by putting something into your VJJ that it goes up inside and permeates throughout all your CM so you would be lowering the pH throughout your uterus and fallopian tubes by douching and using a jelly. This makes NO sense to me whatsoever because at ovulation, your entire repro tract is cranking out massive quantities of EWCM that is very alkaline and the force of gravity is pulling that EWCM out and down. That a fingertip of acijel oir even a lime tampon could somehow miraculously spread throughout the entire uterus and fallopian tubes that are working frantically to do the exact opposite and raise pH...I don't buy it. Gargling with baking soda water will NOT change the pH of your stomach acid.

Plus, that is how the human body is DESIGNED to work, male/female pH in the 7's is best for ALL sperm to survive in, and since most baby girls are conceived without swaying at all, it is unlikely to me that X sperm "love" pH and Y sperm "love" high pH. ALL sperm "love" normal pH and anything too far outside of normal, kills them off. The blue swayers are lucky in that the low pH of the vagina counteracts the baking soda douches and keeps their pH in the sperm-healthy range, but for pink swayers, we get it too low all the time and then don't get pg at all because all the sperm die in the vaj before they even make it into the crypts.

So about sperm activating and reactivating - sperm lives or it dies. Sperm are just tiny cells, they're not like Wolverine and able to take massive amounts of damage and heal themselves. I know people claim to see this happening under a microscope and maybe they do - maybe the sperm gets really sick and almost dies but then recovers if the pH goes up a bit. But these women have no way of knowing that those are X or Y sperm that they're seeing. There is NO WAY to look at sperm through a microscope and tell which are X and which are Y sperm. Those sperm that they see under a microscope dying in low pH and then resurrecting themselves MAY BE X SPERM.

"How do you know that Y sperm like high pH?" "Because these sperm in the microscope stop moving in low pH and then start again."

"But how do you know those are Y sperm?" "Because they stop moving in low pH and then start again."

That is a huge logical fallacy - you can't use one unproven thing to prove another unproven thing, you know??