multiple positive OPKs - TMI warning!

[fresas]

Hey ladies!

This is my first cycle tracking ovulation with OPK strips. I am on CD 18 of a 28-ish day cycle, assuming this cycle is similar to last. I use FMU when testing.

I started using the strips at CD 7 and got my first positive on CD 11. Leading up to CD 11, two lines were present, but tests were negative. The positive on CD 11 was very obvious.

On CD 12-14, there were still 2 lines present, but the tests definitely appeared negative. My CM was pretty fertile looking and the cervix felt fertile as well.

CD 15-18 (today) have been very, very clear positives. The test line is even darker than the control line. My CM is much less than past days, still thin, but cloudier than a couple of days ago and the cervix is hard.

A little bit of background:

I have PCOS. I have had fairly regular cycles for a while although they got kind of weird a couple of months ago, but the past 2 have been normal. I usually use a combination of rhythm, CM, cervical position, and other physical symptoms to figure my fertile times. I haven't been successful at temping because I work very weird hours and my sleep schedule is even weirder.

I also take vitex and SP every day of my cycles usually.

Questions:

Does anyone know if too much LH is present in women with PCOS that could result in multiple positive OPKs?

Or could the vitex and SP be giving false positives because of how these medications can affect hormone levels?

Please share your insight. :owl: ;)

[rainbowflower]

fresas it's possible, although a lot of experts now believe that the eggs go through multiple waves of maturation - you don't always ovulate the first time.
it's possible your body tried to ovulate around CD11 but failed for some reason (perhaps the eggs weren't quite mature enough)
and you're now having a second attempt at ovulating

it's the follicles themselves that produce LH as they mature, so it would be unlikely to be caused by PCOS itself unless you had lots of maturing eggs that weren't quite ready yet

you can also get a positive OPK if you're pregnant as OPKs can detect HCG

[Mochagirl]

I was going to say the same thing as rainbow - I think probably your body geared up to O then didn't succeed the first time around. Do you temp as well?

[fresas]

Thank you for your replies!

Hmmm. I'm still getting super positive OPKs. This is really weird. It is weird, too, because I have seen my own negative tests, but now every one is positive.

I don't think I'm continually ovulating, not this long, right? The test line is definitely darker that the control line, too.

Mocha, I tried temping one cycle, but because my work and sleep schedule are so weird, my temperatures were all over the place. I may try again next cycle because I'm very confused. The OPKs say one thing, the CM and CP say another. I'm still having very stringy, almost EWCM, but CP is hard.

I tested my PH at CD 11 and then today and the CM PH is 4.5 both times. Not that PH and positive OPKs have anything in common, but I just thought I would share. :)

If I'm pregnant, blow me down. We definitely TTA this cycle.

[rainbowflower]

have you taken a pregnancy test?

[Mochagirl]

fresas - I avoided temping for a long time too for the same reasons as you, but I finally decided SOME temps were better than no temps, and I'm finding I still see a distinct pattern even though the temps are taken at all different times of the night, and sometimes after I've been to one of the kids' rooms to find a soother/get water or something like that. Now I really rely on my temps - it helps answer questions nothing else will.

Also - I was going to ask the same thing as rainbow - have you taken a pregnancy test?

[fresas]

I haven't tried a HPT yet since I'm still 7-8 days away from my expected period. When I was pregnant last time, I took a HPT 5 days before my expected period and it was correctly positive. Maybe I will take one in a couple of days? Is that a good plan?

I had another positive OPK today. If I'm not pregnant, I will try temping again next cycle. :)

[auroara78]

update? are the OPKs still positive?

[fresas]

Today, finally, a negative one! Both lines are still present, but definitely not positive.

I am going to take a pregnancy test tomorrow, but I'm feeling that will be negative.

What is weird this cycle, too, is that I am have very mild PMS symptoms. Usually by now I have very sore boobs, may be a little bit moody, have some food cravings, and am bloated. Nothing like this so far, maybe just some slight bloating.

Next cycle, I will try temping and will also do OPKs every day again. I will report what happens. :)

[fresas]

I'm sorry I don't get here to update every day. With my work schedule, it can be challenging to even check my email! I'm usually eating and doing computer stuff at the same time to save time. :D

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, it is from PCOS and it is very normal occurance. you have higher levels of the hormone which the OPK detect and can also get surges outside of when your egg is able to be ovulated.

You are really supposed to use your urine from after lunch for doing OPK because it's more reliable.

[fresas]

Hey ladies! The pregnancy test was negative.

I guess I am going to try temping again. LH is so tricky. I'm still going to use the OPK strips, too. I wish I didn't have PCOS. It is really obnoxious and I don't think it helps with girl sways at all.

Thanks for all of your answers! Will continue updating this thread next month.

[atomic sagebrush]

Good luck sweets. :)

[fresas]

Thanks so much! :) I'm just waiting on AF now.

[fresas]

AF is here (about 3 days late), my OPK is negative, and started temping.

I probably will not try another OPK until after AF is gone, but am going to try to keep temping this cycle.

Not related to OPK tracking, but I'm also planning on taking my pH before and after orgasm through intercourse. I will not be using any lubricants or repHresh. We are still TTA. I am going to test DH's sperm pH as well.

I feel like a mad scientist. Mwuahaha.

[rainbowflower]

sorry she got you, temping is definitely a good plan

[fresas]

So far temping has been a disaster again. My BBT is all over the place because I haven't been sleeping very well or very much.

OPKs are negative.

[rainbowflower]

are you adjusting temps if you wake up at different times?

[fresas]

Rainbow, I am not sure how to adjust temps based on waking time. I will definitely look into it. I have been tracking temperatures, but my waking time is so wildly inconsistent so I'm not sure if it's doing any good. But, I will look into it.

OPK report: test line is close to being as dark as control line, but it's not positive. Also CP and CM are not fertile appearing/feeling.

pH report: We DTD today. We didn't use protection or lubricant. We used pH strips and specimen cup for DH.

My pH before was 4.5. After orgasm was 5.0. DH's sperm was 8.5. :eek:

I want to do another easy DTD around ovulation (no protection or lubricant) and test the before and after again. I want to test after using repHresh and Sylk, too.

I feel like this is getting ready for swaying. I guess maybe it is even though we're scared/not sure about having more kids.

I'm wondering if the SP and vitex could also affect LH levels resulting in the multiple positive OPKs, not just the wackiness of the PCOS? What do you ladies think?

If we end up officially swaying, we're going to add licorice root to both of our supplements probably a month before. I may try a cycle just for my PCOS to see what happens, too. I just don't want to be on it too long because LR has some hypertension risks.

DH has been exercising a lot (he is a soccer/footballer) because he has weight to lose so I know that may not help the PCOS/testosterone issue for swaying girl. He has to stop taking the fish oil and calcium, too. We will probably add Crystal Light and lots of artificial sugar to our diets.

I'm kind of anticipating having multiple positive OPKs this month again.

[rainbowflower]

Fertiltiy Friend includes a temperature corrector tool, available from one of the menus at the top

I've actually had less pos OPKs in a row since I've been taking the vitex

[atomic sagebrush]

PCOS 100% for sure is notorious for multiple pos OPK. I think it's the PCOS personally.

Exercising for DH is a conundrum because it also heats up the nutsack and sways pink that way, regardless of testosterone.

Generally as I'm sure you're aware, DW doesn't take the licorice because it may raise estrogen. Use your judgement.

[fresas]

RF, I think I'm going to have to sign up with FF! But, probably next month because my temping has not been very good this cycle. Thank you for letting me know about that tool. Are you still having weird OPKs with the vitex?

AS, thanks for the insight. I was thinking about taking licorice root to see if I can't get my estrogen a little bit higher since I'm still fairly symptomatic of PCOS even with the metformin, SP, and vitex.

I haven't had a positive OPK yet this cycle. Yesterday I think I had a pretty close to positive, but I don't think it was.

CM and CP are relatively fertile feeling, though.

We DTD with the Sylk today. No UTI feelings at all although it did raise my pH from where it normally is (4.5) to a 6.0. Then in combination with orgasm, but pH went up to 7.0. I decided to use repHresh for the first time today and my pH went down to 4.5 right away. I tested my pH about 3 hours later at it was around 4.5 still. It also seemed to dry me up almost instantly. I don't know if the CM will still be dry later, but for now, I'm pretty dry.

[atomic sagebrush]

fresas, it is my understanding that PCOS generally means HIGHER estrogen??? like, licorice root would not only be bad for your sway, but bad for the PCOS too...

[fresas]

I got a positive OPK today. I have to use FF next cycle!

PCOS is usually associated with high testosterone levels. That is why PCOS girls have so many male-like issues like excessive body and facial hair growth, weight gain, male pattern baldness, acne, oily skin, etc.

I think this is why SP and the vitex (licorice root and peony, too) are some of the most recommended homeopathic treatments for PCOS because they tend to have an estrogenic effect on PCOS.

I guess it is hypothesized that because of the testosterone "dominance", the testosterone depletes or dominates normal levels of estrogen or does not allow the body to convert other hormones to estrogen like it did before PCOS/testosterone overload. The testosterone also negatively affects progesterone levels and other sex hormones involved in the menstrual cycle. The testosterone basically causes deficiencies with all normal female hormones.

Estrogen cannot be measured as well in a blood test like testosterone can be so it is hard to determine if a woman does not have enough estrogen. I think that is why I think PCOS focuses so much on testosterone. PCOS can be diagnosed without a sonogram because the symptoms are so male-friendly.

[atomic sagebrush]

I understand about the PCOS and the testosterone, it's just that I have read (repeatedly including in some textbooks I have) that high estrogen is also an issue with PCOS and I just want you to be careful with the licorice root because of that.

The combo of white peony and licorice works together somehow to counteract that, I am just not sure if the LR alone is a good idea. use your own judgement of course.

have you looked into DIM at all???

[fresas]

Oh, I'm sorry! I misunderstood. That happens a lot with me. ;)

The only symptom of possibly estrogen dominance is my body type, but I have always had this body type. Maybe I have always had estrogen dominance.

I have never heard of DIM. I was reading about it though! It sounds like something I should consider. I'm guessing I would have to drop the vitex and SP so I can let the DIM do its thing? I don't know that DIM would be good for a girl sway, but who knows. Maybe correcting my estrogen levels would help in general.

I can't seem to find peony in any other form besides tea in the US. I have seen some girls order the peony from China, but otherwise it seems hard to find.

I have also been considering getting d-chiro inositol. I think I can take that with metformin, but I haven't found anything to support my idea.

Back to the OPKs, I haven't had a positive one since that initial one, but this is how last cycle was going, too. I had a lot of mid-cycle bleeding which I haven't had in a while. I'm not sure if the repHresh irritated my cervix, but I spotted for 2 days. It kept my pH around a 5 during ovulation (or what I suspect was ovulation) and didn't have too much weird discharge, just the bleeding. I also stopped checking the CP after the spotting because I figured that would probably just irritate the cervix more. I had some EWCM also.

[rainbowflower]

vitex is the one that corrects oestrogen dominance - perhaps stick with that?

[atomic sagebrush]

You can take DIM with SP and in fact some blends are sold with both of them together for PCOS ladies. There was not a lot of info about DIM and vitex and so I can't say either way on that.

The DIM is something I have looked into adding for a sway supp almost from day one, but I just feel like we don't have enough info yet. My gut instinct tells me it would be good for pink swayers but the way the hormones sometimes work together isn't entirely predictable. I do think it's a good option to try and better than the LR alone.

Do you think the SP could be acting as a blood thinner and either causing bleeding from your cervix (at ovulation, your cervix is very soft and prone to getting scratched or injured) or else an increase in ovulation spotting?? Cran and baby aspirin can also do this.

[fresas]

Thanks RF! I think you are right.

Atomic,

I was wondering the same about the SP. I had surgery last year and had to stop taking it because it can cause excessive bleeding. It would be kind of weird if it was the SP because I haven't had that type of spotting in over a year and have been taking SP for probably close to a year.

I'm not taking any cranberry or baby aspirin right now.

I ordered the DIM and the d-chiro inositol today. I will probably continue to take the vitex and SP as well. I can report back on both as far as pH and reduction in PCOS symptoms. If we really do have an official sway someday, I can report on the sex of the baby and using these supplements, too. :)

OPK test line was pretty dark, almost positive looking, but I don't think it was. I'm pretty sure I had my positive on CD 11. We'll see about the next few days.

[atomic sagebrush]

The human body is a weird thing, esp. with clotting stuff, because it's all about the balance and sometimes your body just doesn't get it quite right. Even with things you're pretty used to - like people can take aspirin for years safely, and then one day develop an ulcer from it.

[fresas]

I have had negative OPKs for the rest of the cycle so far. I'm probably going to stop for this cycle. I wonder if last cycle was just really weird.

I started taking the DCI yesterday. It has helped curb my appetite and crazy sugar cravings so far, but it is only day 2. I was reading on the soul cysters website that DCI can cause weight gain instead of weight loss, so I'm going to be pretty careful with this stuff, plus it is not the cheapest. The DIM shipped yesterday so I will give a report on that, too.

[fresas]

I'm sorry to update and run, but wanted to let you ladies know that I also got the DIM + in the mail today. I just took the first dose.

Here is what is in it:

9 IU of Vitamin E

100mg of what they call their "BioResponse-DIM": 25% diindolylmethane- phosphatidylcholine (soy), silica, starch, chloraphyll, gelatin, cellulose

Here is the DIM break down: 100mg of spinach powder, cabbage powder, and concentrated broccoli powder.

Is soy a girl sway thing? I know it can affect certain estrogens, but for some reason I thought it was a boy sway thing.

AF is on day 2. Temping has begun, but not very successfully. :D

[atomic sagebrush]

Not enough Vit. E to make a difference, as I'm sure you realized.

I personally think soy sways pink and you can read why here http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-discussion/1881-super-soy-girl-boy.html soy = boys is a misunderstanding about what "phytoestrogens" do by the people on IG. It can increase EWCM for some people, so if it makes more EWCM for you, just be sure to take an antihistamine.

[ttcadaughter2012]

I don't have PCOS and I had 5 days straight of positive Opk's last cycle while on vitex.. It makes me not want to take it because the month before I took it you saw when I ovulated, it lined up with fertility friend and everything. The month I start taking vitex my temps are all over the place, fertility friend can't pick up ovulation and I get many days straight of positive OPk's.. So confusing and extremely frustrating. :/

[ttcadaughter2012]

You and I are on the same cycle, I too am cd 2 :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't have PCOS and I had 5 days straight of positive Opk's last cycle while on vitex.. It makes me not want to take it because the month before I took it you saw when I ovulated, it lined up with fertility friend and everything. The month I start taking vitex my temps are all over the place, fertility friend can't pick up ovulation and I get many days straight of positive OPk's.. So confusing and extremely frustrating. :/

But you can get pos OPK when your body is trying to O and just isn't able to and this does happen on vitex. Has nothing to do with the false pos that PCOS ladies get.

It can also happen NOT on vitex too, if your body is about to O and then you get sick/stressed and it decides to hold off on ovulating until a few days later. OPK don't mean ovulation, they just mean your body released a little LH.

[fresas]

I was reading somewhere (I don't remember where) that leaving an OPK in a hot or steamy bathroom can make a test read positive when it really isn't a positive, so just be careful. :D

Temping has gone to garbage again. This weekend was so hectic I only slept 4 hours and didn't temp either day. I really need to get better at this.

All OPKs are negative so far, but I expected that.

The d-chiro inositol gives me the worst upper abdominal gas I have ever felt in my life. I know that sounds dramatic, but I cannot tell you how badly it hurts. I don't know if it is because I also take the metformin, but oh my gosh. I don't know if I can keep taking it. I may try taking it at a different time of day with no other medications, but I really don't look forward to experimenting with this. I don't like the nausea the metformin gives me, but the gas pain with the d-chiro inositol is out of control.

I haven't had any side effects from the DIM yet.

[atomic sagebrush]

Really? Wow that's interesting, I did not know that!!!

I'm with ya on the temping, I could never temp becaus e of that reason. do you know for a fact that your temps are messed up when you don't sleep (sorry if you already mentioned this!!)

OMG that sounds like a nightmare. I would totally drop it. :( Feel better soon F.

[atomic sagebrush]

PS - do you think you could be allergic?? I had an allergy to medication and it felt exactly like that - like the worst gas pains ever in my upper stomach from right after I took the medicine for 4-5 hours afterwards. Then I broke out in head to toe hives. Be careful because medication allergies are among the most dangerous ones.

[fresas]

I didn't even think about an allergy. Interesting. I haven't taken it since I posted last and all of the pain is gone. I'm kind of bummed out because I had high hopes that this would help weight loss resistance and maybe help get the testosterone under control a little bit, but if I have to go through hours of pain like that every day, it's probably not worth it.

I started a chart on FF, but no temps so far. :/ I'm on CD 12 so I can start temping, but since I'm getting close to ovulation, it's probably going to be weird. I am charting other stuff though.

[fresas]

I guess this leads me to a FF question. My BBT tends to be pretty low. I suspect that I am borderline hypothyroid (last test showed I was, but MD didn't want to start meds) and my BBT goes lower than the FF chart creates automatically. Will it adjust or is there a setting I need to change so the chart displays lower than 97.6?

[atomic sagebrush]

does your doc know you are TTC? They often want to start TTC women on meds prior to pregnancy to get the levels right.

I don't know about the FF setting - since I can't get good temps, I never chart. I'll start a new thread and ask.

[fresas]

I haven't told my doctor anything yet. I guess I'm in denial that I'm TTC still since we're still acting like I'm TTA. :D I haven an appointment at the end of this month so maybe I will pick her brain.

I have two days of temperatures so far. I guess that's progress?

I was trying to find where I read that steam can cause false + OPKs, but cannot find it. It was on a message board similar to Baby Center, I think, so it could be wrong, but I will keep looking. I remember seeing that right after I started this thread, but didn't think anything of it until recently.

No more gas pain. I'm almost 100% positive it was the DCI now. Atomic, I think you may be right that I have an allergy to it. Darn.

[fresas]

TTCadaughter, have you had any positive OPKs yet? I had one yesterday.

Atomic, I just realized I never answered one of your questions. I don't know if my temperatures are messed up if I don't sleep well, but I can tell when my body temperature is above 98 F. My body temperature actually tends to feel lower with naps or little sleep. I have narcolepsy so I'm not sure if this affects BBT either.

[atomic sagebrush]

Got it! I would prob. temp anyway and just know that they're not reliable. Interesting about the narcolepsy - that does seem like it could make temps lower than they would be otherwise.

[fresas]

I have a lot of fertile signs today although the cervix isn't super soft, it is low and open with watery and EWCM.

TMI and just FYI:

We DTD last night and this morning. Female orgasm and J & D. I used a repHresh last night right away. My pH seemed to stay around 5.5.

This morning, we DTD again, no female orgasm, and J & D. We used Sylk this time. My pH immediately following everything was about 5.0. An hour later it was close to 7. :worry: I used another full applicator of repHresh right away and will retest my pH soon.

I know I keep saying we're TTA, but this month, we haven't exactly been TTA this cycle, but not intentionally.

My husband is totally on board to sway, including changing diet, caffeine intake, supplements, lifestyle, frequent releasing, etc so we've tried to use the past two cycles (and hopefully this cycle) to chart the important stuff like pH, ovulation, especially because the PCOS messes so many thing up for swaying for a girl. Plus, his pH is really high. The last 3 times we tested his pH, it averaged 8.0 .

The last two months we DTD close to ovulation and did not use protection and I haven't conceived so I'm hoping it is the same for this cycle. I'm supposed to be going to back to school this fall so I don't know if this is a great time to get pregnant anyway.

[atomic sagebrush]

Fresas, I hope that whatever is best, comes to pass. I don't think that's a bad sway at all...by the time you tested, the sperm was gone from the VJ anyway.

[fresas]

If I get pregnant from this cycle, I will definitely post an in-depth accidental sway. I'm on so many medications, negative ions, fans, weird eating times, dieting, exercise, etc. I will keep using OPK strips, too.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh I just wanted to let you know - if you do get pg this cycle, you can still go back to school. My sister got pg when she was in school (college, that is ;)), had a baby at the start of spring break and both she and DH were in class on the first day of spring quarter!

[fresas]

I don't know that breastfeeding or pumping would work well (bad), but you are right, school could still work (good).

I'm nervous though. This definitely wouldn't be proper sway how we would want it. I hope I can convince my body this was just a practice run. :D

I can't remember what day I had a positive OPK this cycle. I think it was on day 9 or 10? I'm on CD 14 today. I ran out of the strips super unintentionally though so I haven't continued testing which is not good for tracking weird or false positive OPKs. :(

Anyway, kind of off topic, but I have been talking about the LE diet with DH and I cannot do that diet with my PCOS. I gain weight, I get bad acne, my cycles get weirder and more painful than they already are, and I have more cyst pain. I don't know what to do. Unfortunately, a low carb diet + lots of green vegetables tends to work out well and that is so boy friendly.

I am also already pretty severely calorie restricted, too.

I don't know how to do this diet with my PCOS. I wonder if there is any way to keep my general pH lower without the LE diet. Maybe with a lot of Splenda and Crystal Light and lots of repHresh? I don't know. :( Any ideas?

I take metformin so this might help with the low blood sugar aspect of girl swaying?

This past week and a half I have been really naughty and eating a lot of sugar and cereal, but I'm paying for it with acne, sore breasts (could be due to ovulation, too), and a lot of bloating/cyst pain.

[fresas]

More diet thoughts!

If the more boy friendly PCOS diet actually seems to help keep my testosterone in better check than the LE diet, I wonder if it would be better to stay on the PCOS diet because it helps keep testosterone levels lower. It may not be like this for the woman without PCOS, though.

PCOS diet does result in a higher natural pH, though. That's why I was wondering if downing the artificial sugars and making repHresh my BFF would work well? Maybe not?

Ideas?

[fresas]

Your diet looks very healthy and very PCOS friendly, but with the aspartame, keeping calories low, etc, probably good for girl swaying.

PCOS diet is very boy friendly, but is also much more low carb than boy diets. Any carbs you do eat should be whole wheat. Eating frequently is a good idea with PCOS. Basically, because of the risk of insulin resistance, we have to eat like diabetics in order to keep the insulin resistance away and keep the testosterone levels lower.

The PCOS diet is not the most girl-friendly at first glance. That's why I'm having these questions because on this board, diet seems to be a major factor for swaying, but for girls swaying who have PCOS, we can't necessarily do the LE diet because it can have the opposite affect as a woman without PCOS. But, I wonder if staying on a more boy-friendly diet is what PCOS girls need to do because it helps keep blood sugar levels more stable (no spikes) and helps keep testosterone lower?

I think a PCOS diet can raise pH, but it doesn't for me, at least not vaginally. One of my main struggles with girl swaying is that I know if I do a LE diet, I think it actually elevates my testosterone and doesn't do much for the pH since my pH is naturally at 4.5 most of the time.

I don't think the LE diet elevates testosterone with ladies who do not have PCOS.

However, in girls with PCOS, because of the way our bodies tend to go towards insulin resistance or are insulin resistant, eating simple carbohydrates and avoiding overall general healthy eating probably tends to cause more insulin resistance, which in turn elevates testosterone because the insulin binds to the wrong type of testosterone which allows unhealthy testosterone to dominate. This is already a major problem for PCOS girls. :(

I don't know for sure, though. I am not a doctor. I'm just hypothesizing based on my own experience when I deviate from PCOS diet friendly stuff. I'm also hypothesizing based on how insulin resistance or early insulin resistance is a sign of high levels of bad testosterone. That's why a lot of girls (including myself) are on metformin. It helps keep the weight gain down, helps with regular periods, acne, cyst bursts, etc.

:think: I don't know if there are many girls on the board who have swayed girl with PCOS. I would love to hear about it.

+ OPKs: I ordered more OPK strips so hopefully they will be here by next week.

[fresas]

I was diagnosed based on symptoms and a blood test. I have (usually) regular periods now, but am still hirsute, cannot lose weight no matter what, prone to fast weight gain, acne, and have hair loss. I'm taking:

metformin 1000mg
SP 320mg
Vitex 200mg (?)
DIM whatever the maximum per day dose is
MVI

and stopped taking calcium a while ago. These past two weeks my diet has been garbage (too many refined carbs, not enough vegetables) and I am paying for it now. Oops!

[fresas]

My FF chart has me ovulation 3 days ago, but my CP and CM did not seem fertile at all. It seemed fertile CD 11-ish. I'm so confused!

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/3b1972

[Butterfly Spirit]

I have a lot of fertile signs today although the cervix isn't super soft, it is low and open with watery and EWCM.

TMI and just FYI:

We DTD last night and this morning. Female orgasm and J & D. I used a repHresh last night right away. My pH seemed to stay around 5.5.

This morning, we DTD again, no female orgasm, and J & D. We used Sylk this time. My pH immediately following everything was about 5.0. An hour later it was close to 7. :worry: I used another full applicator of repHresh right away and will retest my pH soon.

I know I keep saying we're TTA, but this month, we haven't exactly been TTA this cycle, but not intentionally.

My husband is totally on board to sway, including changing diet, caffeine intake, supplements, lifestyle, frequent releasing, etc so we've tried to use the past two cycles (and hopefully this cycle) to chart the important stuff like pH, ovulation, especially because the PCOS messes so many thing up for swaying for a girl. Plus, his pH is really high. The last 3 times we tested his pH, it averaged 8.0 .

The last two months we DTD close to ovulation and did not use protection and I haven't conceived so I'm hoping it is the same for this cycle. I'm supposed to be going to back to school this fall so I don't know if this is a great time to get pregnant anyway.

Hi, I've heard that female orgasm is a BIG No No when swaying for pink. Shettles said it first. and I believe there is truth to it. multiple orgasms got me my two sons. So avoid them entirely if you can.

[fresas]

I follow you.

What is weird is that without orgasm, my pH was higher than with one.

Both of these experiences were with repHresh used about 12 hours apart.

I have to avoid Sylk. I don't think it helps with my pH at all. I used Sylk and repHresh with the no orgasm experience and my pH was 7.

I will avoid orgasms, but strangely, I think the Sylk has been behind an unusually high pH both times I have used it so far. My pH is high even after using repHresh when I use Sylk so I don't think I can use Sylk at all.

Plus, when it comes to pH, I'm not sure I can do the LE diet. I'm trying to figure out other ways I can keep my pH low, although it is typically pretty low vaginally.

I'm still reading about it, but it looks less and less like I can the LE diet because while it may decrease my pH, it is going to increase my testosterone because I have PCOS and PCOS does not respond well with refined carbs, low nutrient foods. These increase bad testosterone and cause insulin issues which also cause an increase in bad testosterone.

It is not a good situation for swaying girl for me. :( I'm kind of lost right now.

[rainbowflower]

fresas perhaps you can put the emphasis on being more vegetarian and weight loss?

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't know that breastfeeding or pumping would work well (bad), but you are right, school could still work (good).

I'm nervous though. This definitely wouldn't be proper sway how we would want it. I hope I can convince my body this was just a practice run. :D

I can't remember what day I had a positive OPK this cycle. I think it was on day 9 or 10? I'm on CD 14 today. I ran out of the strips super unintentionally though so I haven't continued testing which is not good for tracking weird or false positive OPKs. :(

Anyway, kind of off topic, but I have been talking about the LE diet with DH and I cannot do that diet with my PCOS. I gain weight, I get bad acne, my cycles get weirder and more painful than they already are, and I have more cyst pain. I don't know what to do. Unfortunately, a low carb diet + lots of green vegetables tends to work out well and that is so boy friendly.

I am also already pretty severely calorie restricted, too.

I don't know how to do this diet with my PCOS. I wonder if there is any way to keep my general pH lower without the LE diet. Maybe with a lot of Splenda and Crystal Light and lots of repHresh? I don't know. :( Any ideas?

I take metformin so this might help with the low blood sugar aspect of girl swaying?

This past week and a half I have been really naughty and eating a lot of sugar and cereal, but I'm paying for it with acne, sore breasts (could be due to ovulation, too), and a lot of bloating/cyst pain.

I totally understand and just hope that whatever is best, is coming down the road for you! (PS - Sis was not able to BF because of being in school so you are totally right on that!)

Green vegetables are FINE on LE diet. You don't have to eat grains and sugar, that's just what some people do...many people are scared to eat vegetables because IG says they're "alkalininzing" but who even knows if that is true in any way?? I mean calcium tablets are "alkalinizing" and they certainly aren't avoiding those!!

Above all else, you ahve to do what is best for you and your body. What if you focused mostly on green vegetables and then upped your protein to 50-70 g? Even a little animal protein would be ok for you in that circumstance, because you wouldn't be getting high levels of protein from pasta and breads like some pink swayers choose to do.

I think if you use antihistamine to dry up some CM and use RepHresh (or whatever works for you) then that is all you need do to for pH.

Metformin is great for lowering blood sugar and it does tend to sway pink. :agree:

[atomic sagebrush]

More diet thoughts!

If the more boy friendly PCOS diet actually seems to help keep my testosterone in better check than the LE diet, I wonder if it would be better to stay on the PCOS diet because it helps keep testosterone levels lower. It may not be like this for the woman without PCOS, though.

PCOS diet does result in a higher natural pH, though. That's why I was wondering if downing the artificial sugars and making repHresh my BFF would work well? Maybe not?

Ideas?

I think that the rules HAVE to be different for those with PCOS (or anyone who has problems with blood sugar) because your body doesn't metabolize carbs the same way. I can't truly say wihtout having a side by side study or two what the results would be, but if (as seems to be the case) testosterone and blood sugar are what is doing the swaying, then it just makes the most sense that for YOU, lowering testosterone and blood sugar, can only help.

[atomic sagebrush]

Your diet looks very healthy and very PCOS friendly, but with the aspartame, keeping calories low, etc, probably good for girl swaying.

PCOS diet is very boy friendly, but is also much more low carb than boy diets. Any carbs you do eat should be whole wheat. Eating frequently is a good idea with PCOS. Basically, because of the risk of insulin resistance, we have to eat like diabetics in order to keep the insulin resistance away and keep the testosterone levels lower.

The PCOS diet is not the most girl-friendly at first glance. That's why I'm having these questions because on this board, diet seems to be a major factor for swaying, but for girls swaying who have PCOS, we can't necessarily do the LE diet because it can have the opposite affect as a woman without PCOS. But, I wonder if staying on a more boy-friendly diet is what PCOS girls need to do because it helps keep blood sugar levels more stable (no spikes) and helps keep testosterone lower?

I think a PCOS diet can raise pH, but it doesn't for me, at least not vaginally. One of my main struggles with girl swaying is that I know if I do a LE diet, I think it actually elevates my testosterone and doesn't do much for the pH since my pH is naturally at 4.5 most of the time.

I don't think the LE diet elevates testosterone with ladies who do not have PCOS.

However, in girls with PCOS, because of the way our bodies tend to go towards insulin resistance or are insulin resistant, eating simple carbohydrates and avoiding overall general healthy eating probably tends to cause more insulin resistance, which in turn elevates testosterone because the insulin binds to the wrong type of testosterone which allows unhealthy testosterone to dominate. This is already a major problem for PCOS girls. :(

I don't know for sure, though. I am not a doctor. I'm just hypothesizing based on my own experience when I deviate from PCOS diet friendly stuff. I'm also hypothesizing based on how insulin resistance or early insulin resistance is a sign of high levels of bad testosterone. That's why a lot of girls (including myself) are on metformin. It helps keep the weight gain down, helps with regular periods, acne, cyst bursts, etc.

:think: I don't know if there are many girls on the board who have swayed girl with PCOS. I would love to hear about it.

+ OPKs: I ordered more OPK strips so hopefully they will be here by next week.

Whole grains are FINE on the LE Diet. 100% fine. Just think for all those millions of years, we didn't even have refined grains and yet the human race kept having 50-50 boys and girls.

Eating too much sugar and carbs (without fiber) DOES cause blood sugar and testosterone to rise in those with PCOS. Metformin will help with that somewhat but you are right, you need to do what is right for your body above all else.

If the PCOS diet does not raise your vaginal pH, that is all that matters. The idea that your blood itself becomes more acidic or alkaline is totally debunked - - if your blood pH changes, you DIE.

Fresas, I think you should feel good about increasing green veg and slightly increasing protein intake. If you can lose a bit of weight even better. I think you're on the right track!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

I follow you.

What is weird is that without orgasm, my pH was higher than with one.

Both of these experiences were with repHresh used about 12 hours apart.

I have to avoid Sylk. I don't think it helps with my pH at all. I used Sylk and repHresh with the no orgasm experience and my pH was 7.

I will avoid orgasms, but strangely, I think the Sylk has been behind an unusually high pH both times I have used it so far. My pH is high even after using repHresh when I use Sylk so I don't think I can use Sylk at all.

Plus, when it comes to pH, I'm not sure I can do the LE diet. I'm trying to figure out other ways I can keep my pH low, although it is typically pretty low vaginally.

I'm still reading about it, but it looks less and less like I can the LE diet because while it may decrease my pH, it is going to increase my testosterone because I have PCOS and PCOS does not respond well with refined carbs, low nutrient foods. These increase bad testosterone and cause insulin issues which also cause an increase in bad testosterone.

It is not a good situation for swaying girl for me. :( I'm kind of lost right now.

I know I've posted this before but maybe you haven't seen it??
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-girl-best-practices/1865-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-1-blood-sugar-issues.html

You don't HAVE to eat refined carbs and empty calories on the LE diet. That's just what some people CHOOSE to do or need to do if they lose too much weight too quickly, and I think that for the average person it is the best sway simply because it cuts back on nutrients just a hair more. It is NOT make or break in any way tho. All you have to do is 1500-1800 cals, 40-50 g protein (for you, that would be 50-60), 20-30% cals from fat, while skipping breakfast, not snacking, and losing a bit of weight. That's ALL.

The low nutrients come not from forcefeeding yourself empty calories, but from not taking vitamins and cutting back on calories all together. After that, you can pretty much have leeway. I mention grains as a backbone of the diet, but your backbone is like this tiny fraction of your body. If you ate a couple RyKrisp with lunch and a 1/2 c of brown rice with dinner, that's fine, that's all you need to do and you don't even need to do that if you don't want to. I WANT people to eat vegetables and lately it seems like I am writing a long diatribe about it every hour the last couple days LOL. ;) That is why when I make diets, I come up short on protein while everyone else is getting too much, because I focus on vegetables and other people are scared of them - but you don't have to fear the veggies.

Veggies are lower nutrient than grain foods, dairy, and meat! Veggies ARE the quintessential low nutrient food. Low nutrient does not mean NO nutrient. Green vegetables are MUCH lower in nutrients than breads and pastas which are packed with calories, protein, and vitamin fortified!!!! Green vegetables are awesome and they are extra awesome if you have PCOS or other blood sugar issues because they don't make your BS go thru the roof.

[atomic sagebrush]

My FF chart has me ovulation 3 days ago, but my CP and CM did not seem fertile at all. It seemed fertile CD 11-ish. I'm so confused!

3b1972 Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/3b1972)

I have noticed that I often dry up before I ovulate. Some months I have nothing for a couple days before I O.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi, I've heard that female orgasm is a BIG No No when swaying for pink. Shettles said it first. and I believe there is truth to it. multiple orgasms got me my two sons. So avoid them entirely if you can.

If that was true, there would be no failed blue sways becasue they all try to have at least one and usually more than one.

It is highly unlikely that all the 3.5 billion women on the face of the planet were all conceived without female O and then all the 3.5 billion men were conceived with them. We've done polls on this and there are girls conceived with orgasm, boys conceived without orgasm. There is a mild tendency that women who have regular Os have more sons but it is so far from 100% that it may as well be "ions".

I know for a fact I did not O with DS1 - not sure about the rest. Sometimes I had them, sometimes I didn't. What I did do was eat a boy-friendly diet and have a boy-friendly personality and have a lot of CM, and my DH has a very high sex drive and prob a lot of T himself. We also BD every couple days in perfect boy frequency for max sperm numbers.

None of these little "window dressing" things like BD in a certain position or having a female O, can possibly be make or break - if diet sways for real, biological reasons (as in, boys need more calories from the moment of conception on throughout pg and life so when you ahve a lot of calories, you're more likely to conceive a boy because that's the circumstance a boy will best survive in) then it doesn't make any sense that God/Mother Nature would toss that out the window on the basis of something as arbitrary as whether you had an orgasm or not. If a boy did not have enough calories to survive, it would be silly for our bodies to suddenly up and conceive them based on presence or absence of female O.

Way way more likely is that women who have regular O's have higher T levels to begin with, naturally or as a result of diet or both, and it's the higher T levels that then sway. Coincidence.

[fresas]

Thanks so much for your input, ladies.

I am probably just going to increase major aspertame and Splenda where I can and try to do vegetarian proteins instead of animal proteins. I tend to skip breakfast already or if I have breakfast, I usually have an egg with beans (so boy-ish!), but that's the PCOS way unfortunately. :(

I also tend to stay around 1300 calories a day, plus lots of cardio and Pilates. I have a really hard time losing weight. I'm not overweight, but could definitely lose about 10 lbs. The testosterone just loves to keep the weight on and the way it affects insulin/blood sugar just loves to make it difficult to lose weight. My BMI is 20.

I'm going to do some serious thinking and planning. I'm not stressed, surprisingly, just a little bit disappointed that my diet is probably not going to help as much as I want it to.

My temperature was super high this morning (99 F or 37.2 C). Crazy. I got my OPKs today and just tested. It was negative which I expected. It would be crazy if I ovulated when my chart says I did because my CP was not in its normal fertile state at that point, but anything is possible, especially with PCOS. :)

I will keep you ladies updated! Thanks again for all of your support. It helps to talk about the ideas and strategies.

[Princess of Pink]

I have had multiple O's with every one of my girls....I can't help myself lol

[fresas]

LOL! I love it!

[fresas]

I just got a + HPT.

I'm freaking out.

This was not an official sway at all. DH didn't take any girl friendly supplements. At all. Plus, I have continued to take my PCOS herbs and potions this whole time.

Oh my gosh. What do I do?!

[fresas]

I'm going to write this all down even though I'm still a week away from expected AF.

Just some quick background. I have PCOS and have had 2 high risk pregnancies. This pregnancy will be interesting. I'm hoping first for a healthy baby, of course, but we also would like a girl. This was not an intentional sway. DH was going to stop drinking green tea and taking fish oil plus add licorice root, but this didn't happen since we weren't officially swaying. We were just practicing.


USERNAME: fresas
AGE: 28
DH'S AGE: 29
CHILDREN: 2 Boys
NO. MONTHS TTC: 0
DH pH: 7.5-8.5
Me: 4.5 most of the time

DIET:

Not the best for a girl sway from either of us. I eat a PCOS friendly diet which is boy friendly. DH also did not adjust his eating patterns. The only hope I have is that around the time of ovulation, my diet was really bad, full of sugar and skipped meals.


CAFFEINE:

DH: was supposed to stop when we did sway, but was having a cup of green tea daily.

Me: never have caffeine, but DH convinced me to drink some green tea with him around the time of ovulation so I had caffeine unfortunately.



EXERCISE:

DH: soccer/football twice weekly + aerobic exercise 3 times a week

Me: aerobic exercise 4 times a week, Pilates 3-4 times a week, and some bellydancing
None


POTIONS & PILLS:

Metformin 1000mg
SP 320mg
Vitex
DIM
MVI (not good for girl sway)



POTIONS & PILLS FOR YOUR MAN:

MVI
Calcium + D
Garlic
Fish Oil :/


LOWERING SPERM COUNT/TIMING:

Not how we wanted to do this, but:

DH hadn't released for close to 3 weeks. Day 10 was the first time we had had sex in weeks. Day 11 was sex 12 hours later. This probably isn't girl friendly at all.

Jump and dump: Yes, both times

EWCM present/how much?: hard to tell. Day 10 was watery, but not too much. I used one tube of repHresh immediately after Day 10. Day 11, I was pretty dry because of the repHresh. More on this below.

DH undies type – tighty whities

DH hot bath/shower - no

OWT - anything under bed? – no


THINGS IN YOUR VG:

repHresh both days following each attempt. My pH was okay Day 10, but Day 11 was a 7, probably thanks to the Sylk.

OVULATION:

It is not always predictable, but this cycle seemed to ovulate Day 11. My FF chart says day 14, but I don't think so. My OPK strips weren't always reliable because of the PCOS.


Did you track your pH, if so, what was it before the attempt(s):

Day 10: 4.5 before attempt, 5.5 after attempt + orgasm + repHresh

Day 11: unknown before attempt, 7 after attempt + Sylk + repHresh after pH test, but did not check pH later because I was too scared and sore from touching my cervix so much. :(


IONS

Air purifier with HEPA filter and negative ions mode and a fan right next to where I sleep.

I don't know the moon phase. I can check.

My Chinese calendar based on my lunar age says I conceived a boy. :(


ANYTHING ELSE?

No. We would have done a lot more different had this been an official sway. My husband was really dedicated to the idea of swaying, actually, so totally committed to taking supplements and doing frequent release. Of course we didn't get to do these things, but it helps that he was going to be supportive.

We have prayed for a girl other times, but haven't lately.

We both want a healthy baby, but both also want a girl so much. I guess we will see! The PCOS definitely made this challenging. Thanks for helping me so much, ladies!

[sweetpea]

Oh my goodness! I just read through this entire thread and saw that you got a BFP today! Congratulations!!! Hope you conceived your little girl!!

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

[atomic sagebrush]

I just got a + HPT.

I'm freaking out.

This was not an official sway at all. DH didn't take any girl friendly supplements. At all. Plus, I have continued to take my PCOS herbs and potions this whole time.

Oh my gosh. What do I do?!

Oh my gosh is right!!! Congrats tho! I hope your pg is a very easy one this time!!! :) Remember, people can and do conceive baby girls doing nothing any different than they had every day of their lives!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Fresas, I don't think that is a bad sway at all. In some ways, I think a "stealth" sway can actually help some of us who have higher than average T because we don't get quite as worked up as we would otherwise. Best wishes and good luck!!

[fresas]

Thank you so much, ladies. I have been pouting about the sway missing so many things, but I am definitely leaving the pity party and focusing on a healthy baby and pregnancy.

I will be around to keep you ladies updated. Thanks again for all of your help in this thread and answering my trillions of questions. :)