Did I wreck my boy sway?

[Hobbermittens]

So yesterday was CD9. I had wanted to BD every 2 days during my fertile time, and I asked DH to abstain 4 days before our first attempt.I had miscounted when we had last DTD, and yesterday was the 4th day. So we DTD last night. Now I am stressed that it was too early! I wish we had waited... now it will be CD9, CD11, CD13 and possible CD14. I will most likely O on CD14... so was last night really bad?? The other thing was, DH was asleep and I had to wake him, so there was no caffeine before the attempt, and I used preseed instead of eggwhite, which I am also regretting. :( I did BSF, though. And had a big O before and right at the same time as DH.

Did I ruin my sway? I know most people say to only DTD close to O, but I have had 2 months of BFNs with only 2 attempts, so I wanted to add more. But now I wonder if the "deposit" DH made is even going to survive until O day, and maybe all that will survive will be the girls. :( :(

[rainbowflower]

no, that doesn't sound too bad to me.. if you want to DTD on OV day too I'd try and make it at least 36hrs since your previous attempt

if today is CD9 and you don't OV until CD14, the swimmers that went in there today will most likely all be dead by OV time anyway. It won't be "just the girls" that survive either... girls don't survive longer than boys. It's just that the more recent deposits will be "fresher" and more active, and have the nutrient supplies to be the ones that get to the egg first

[zanacal]

I think it sounds perfectly fine!

[Hobbermittens]

Thanks, ladies. I just wish I had released DH or used a condom or counted so that the 4 day abstinence was closer to O day. Oh well.

Zanacal, how did you DTD when you got your boys?

Rainbow, I may sound dumb for asking this, but how does that work, exactly, with the fresher sperm being there to replace the older ones? I mean, I imagine it as all the sperm batches lined up, so that the older stuff has first dibbs on the egg. Is that not correct? I mean, are they all mixed up in there or what?

[atomic sagebrush]

They are all mixed together in there, it's like if you are mixing colors of jelly beans in a big jar and occasionally scooping some out to use - the jellybeans are kinda sorta in layers but not strictly speaking and some old ones are going to fall off to the sides - it's not like there are little compartments in there or anything. At some point the oldest ones die and are eventually dealt with. But the sperm itself is like cycling through all the time, some older, some newer.

[atomic sagebrush]

So yesterday was CD9. I had wanted to BD every 2 days during my fertile time, and I asked DH to abstain 4 days before our first attempt.I had miscounted when we had last DTD, and yesterday was the 4th day. So we DTD last night. Now I am stressed that it was too early! I wish we had waited... now it will be CD9, CD11, CD13 and possible CD14. I will most likely O on CD14... so was last night really bad?? The other thing was, DH was asleep and I had to wake him, so there was no caffeine before the attempt, and I used preseed instead of eggwhite, which I am also regretting. :( I did BSF, though. And had a big O before and right at the same time as DH.

Did I ruin my sway? I know most people say to only DTD close to O, but I have had 2 months of BFNs with only 2 attempts, so I wanted to add more. But now I wonder if the "deposit" DH made is even going to survive until O day, and maybe all that will survive will be the girls. :( :(

I think that's just fine! I like your every 2 day pattern. Just right!!

As you know I think preseed is better than EW anyway!!

There are studies out there that show more boys conceived with 5 day cutoffs (and I doubt much will survive that long anyway.) Sperm live the exact same length of time, this has been extensively studied since Shettles.

[rainbowflower]

the swimmers that are waiting will capacitate (undergo changes that prepares them to go catch the egg) at frequent intervals while they wait for the egg, "just in case" it pops out soon. They last as long after doing this... however, when the egg comes on the scene any that are in the tubes will start to capacitate to get ready to go for it. Batches that have been in there longer will have fewer numbers because too many will have capacitated too early.

[zanacal]

Zanacal, how did you DTD when you got your boys?


We DTD every 2 days starting on cd10. I knew I ovulated around cd14 (but only used OPKs for DS2 so wasn't monitoring closely) and I had a plan to DTD every other day starting on cd10 and if I hadn't got pregnant first month we would have started on cd9 or cd11! It's quite possible my DH was self releasing on opposite days though I didn't know this until I questioned him for our girl sway!

[TTC5]

Sounds fine to me!

[Hobbermittens]

the swimmers that are waiting will capacitate (undergo changes that prepares them to go catch the egg) at frequent intervals while they wait for the egg, "just in case" it pops out soon. They last as long after doing this... however, when the egg comes on the scene any that are in the tubes will start to capacitate to get ready to go for it. Batches that have been in there longer will have fewer numbers because too many will have capacitated too early.

Ah, so they don't survive long after capacitating? So what else do they do in there while they wait?? Being a sperm must be kind of boring.

[Hobbermittens]

They are all mixed together in there, it's like if you are mixing colors of jelly beans in a big jar and occasionally scooping some out to use - the jellybeans are kinda sorta in layers but not strictly speaking and some old ones are going to fall off to the sides - it's not like there are little compartments in there or anything. At some point the oldest ones die and are eventually dealt with. But the sperm itself is like cycling through all the time, some older, some newer.

This is a good description... I like things that I can visualize easily. And I like jelly bellies, so this is a particularly good visual for me. So you mean when I get a bag and fill it with jelly bellies from the bulk bins, right? Each scoop I add to the bag is the same as each "deposit" that DH makes?

[Hobbermittens]

We DTD every 2 days starting on cd10. I knew I ovulated around cd14 (but only used OPKs for DS2 so wasn't monitoring closely) and I had a plan to DTD every other day starting on cd10 and if I hadn't got pregnant first month we would have started on cd9 or cd11! It's quite possible my DH was self releasing on opposite days though I didn't know this until I questioned him for our girl sway!

Yeah, this was my original plan! Tonight was to be our first attempt, but then I counted the days since our last BD, and realized DH had already gone 4 days, and I was afraid if I made him wait another day, he would either have a nocturnal emission (though he swears he has never had one) or it would be too long an abstinence.

I just hope I made the right choice! :nails:

[Hobbermittens]

I think that's just fine! I like your every 2 day pattern. Just right!!

As you know I think preseed is better than EW anyway!!

There are studies out there that show more boys conceived with 5 day cutoffs (and I doubt much will survive that long anyway.) Sperm live the exact same length of time, this has been extensively studied since Shettles.

Thanks for the reassurance. I need to just let it go now, because what is done is done! I went with the preseed because I had forgotten to get an egg out of the fridge and didn't think it was good to use a cold egg... but now I kinda feel like I have to keep using preseed, since that's what I started with.

[skrimpy]

I don't think you ruined it Hobber. I think you should just follow your plan and BD every other day now. I would keep using the Preseed b/c that's my pref... But I don't think there's anything wrong with going with egg white if you want to. If your eggs have a high ph that might be really good. I think do what feels right to you and enjoy yourself! Remember that enjoying and having the big O sways blue :)

[Hobbermittens]

I don't think you ruined it Hobber. I think you should just follow your plan and BD every other day now. I would keep using the Preseed b/c that's my pref... But I don't think there's anything wrong with going with egg white if you want to. If your eggs have a high ph that might be really good. I think do what feels right to you and enjoy yourself! Remember that enjoying and having the big O sways blue :)

Thanks... I saw your response on the other thread where you said you would wait until CD11, which is part of the reason I panicked... but before we DTD, I did check and there was some EWCM up there (not a ton, but some) so hopefully what was there was enough for some little blue swimmers to maintain!

My only concern with changing from preseed to EW is, if I used preseed last night, and it helped the swimmers out, I don't want to kill off any of the next batches with EW if the pH is too high ( I was sort of wondering if too high a pH was killing swimmers off during my last two attempts), then all that would be left are the ones in there now, and that would create a cut off. I will add some BS to my preseed next time around, though.

[zanacal]

I would be happy to use pre-seed if swaying boy too - good luck!

[atomic sagebrush]

Kind of but just to make it easier to "see" let's make it a clear container. Each scoop or layer, is sperm that DH is making on a daily basis or so. So one day he makes purple, one day he makes green, one day he makes yellow, different amounts all the time depending on his overall health. But unlike adding the JB to a container, in this case, the oldest layers would be on top, newest on the bottom. Then envision them all hanging around in his nuts while he goes about his business - as if you gave a child a full container of jelly bellies and they carried them around for awhile. There would prob be some mixing between individual layers, but the top layer would never become the bottom layer or anything like that - the layers would stay pretty intact. But then when you opened up the container and scooped some out (ie DH ejaculating) you would get mostly the top layer, some that were a little further down, some that were further down than that...but you'd never get ALL the top layer (some would always fall off to the side) and you would prob not get any at all that were from the bottom. Then the next time, you'd get a few more from lower down but also still maybe a few of the top layer.

Further complicating matters is that the JB have an expiration date - at some point they don't taste good any more and they dissolve into nothingness, so eventually even tho you probably could never manage to scoop out ALL the top layer (some would always fall off to the side) they cease to exist and so when you go to get your next scoop, you won't get ANY of those any more, you'd only get JB from the lower, newer layers.

Of course, there are always more layers being formed, and the more you take out (the more he ejaculates) the sooner you would get to those bottom layers, so you can guarantee that if you take out scoops pretty regularly, all your JB will be fresh and tasty (which is why you want to BD every 2-4 days for blue - max numbers of nice fresh JB). At the same time tho, he only has a limited number of ingredients for making more JB so if you scoop out lots and lots all the time there start to be fewer and fewer JB per scoop (which is how FR can sway pink.) At the same time, if you NEVER scoop any out, production slows way down and the old ones mostly just hang around till they dissolve into nothingness and the other ones get stale (which is how abstain can sway pink).

For swaying blue you just want to take out regular scoops of JB with the aim of keeping but it's not a fine science, as long as the scoops are pretty regular you will get good amounts of fresh JB - to sway pink, you have to take out A LOT of scoops all at once or else not take any scoops for a long time.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yeah, this was my original plan! Tonight was to be our first attempt, but then I counted the days since our last BD, and realized DH had already gone 4 days, and I was afraid if I made him wait another day, he would either have a nocturnal emission (though he swears he has never had one) or it would be too long an abstinence.

I just hope I made the right choice! :nails:

I think you did because better to take one extra scoop knowing that there are almost certainly a gazillion more waiting in the container, than to risk stale jelly beans!

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks... I saw your response on the other thread where you said you would wait until CD11, which is part of the reason I panicked... but before we DTD, I did check and there was some EWCM up there (not a ton, but some) so hopefully what was there was enough for some little blue swimmers to maintain!

My only concern with changing from preseed to EW is, if I used preseed last night, and it helped the swimmers out, I don't want to kill off any of the next batches with EW if the pH is too high ( I was sort of wondering if too high a pH was killing swimmers off during my last two attempts), then all that would be left are the ones in there now, and that would create a cut off. I will add some BS to my preseed next time around, though.

Of course, I don't think cutoff sways, but I do think what you say makes sense and here's why. There is NO REASON why blue swayers should not get pg quicker than pink swayers do just as a matter of course, because everything that sways blue should BOOST fertility, not diminish it in any way. That blue swayers aren't getting pg quickly (and it's not just you, it's everyone) means that SOMETHING is not right with our sways and that leaves egg white, BSF, and timing or some combo of all three.

So it seems totally reasonable to me that you would be absolutely right that the Preseed is more sperm friendly and that you would be more likely to get pg from this early batch of sperm than later ones using EW. Go with your gut - if YOU THINK cutoff is risky and also that EW might be keeping you from conceiving, then DTD again with Preseed makes a heck of a lot more sense than EW.

[Hobbermittens]

Wow, thanks Atomic! That really helped me understand. You have a really good way of explaining things.:)

[atomic sagebrush]

but I never would have thought of it if you hadn't asked a good q Hobber. :) Now I can use that analogy for everyone!! :agree:

[Hobbermittens]

One more question. So when they are in the woman's reproductive tract, how are they "stored"? I mean, are they the same as the jelly beans in the balls--layered--or are they all a jumble in there, waiting, as each batch is deposited from each attempt?

[atomic sagebrush]

They're all a jumble, the idea being that the sperm "like" to wait in certain areas (like cervical crypts and the junction between the tubes and the uterus) kinda like a doctor's waiting room - so over the course of time, some of them are capacitating and going on little jaunts to see if there's anything to fertilize while others stay behind and chill out waiting for their "appointment". In the meantime, any new arrivals just go into the waiting room and do the exact same thing so there are "old" sperm capacitating, "old" sperm waiting, new sperm capacitating, new sperm waiting, some sperm both new and old that have gone bad and died, all in various stages along the way. Sperm are like Boy Scouts, they like to be prepared and they seem capable of some form of bizarre communication so there are always some at the ready should the egg arrive.

[Hobbermittens]

Got it! I love "sperm are like boy scouts"...that made me laugh.

[zanacal]

Lol at the jellybeans - genius!

Also interesting about why blue swayers mightn't be getting pregnant as quickly as expected when doing so many things to boost fertility.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ah, so they don't survive long after capacitating? So what else do they do in there while they wait?? Being a sperm must be kind of boring.

I think they play yahtzee.

The length of time they live has to do with the environment, but some are always capacitated and some are always waiting, until they all die, of course.