Abstinence and birth defects

[TickledPinkButLoveMyBlue]

Im sorry if this has already been asked but Im curious to know if abstinence in a 34 would be a bad idea. Im worried after reading some info about abstinence in older men increasing the risk of genetic issues being passed on and birth defects. I know 34 is young but it got me worried.....

We were hoping to do O+12 with abstinence from af.
Many thanks.

[rainbowflower]

I've not seen any specific studies, but I do know some exist that show a link with abstaining in older men and increase in birth defects. Generally this is 35+, so your DH should be fine but it's your call

O+12 is very risky to time (i.e. leave it slightly too late and you miss the egg altogether) - do you temp?

[purplepoet20]

I have had some concern about abstaining (we are both barely 30). But also about dtd to early like 6-7+days before O.

I best study I found said that the risk are greatly lowered if both parents are on a healthy diet that includes vitamins that help with fertility when taken for at least 3mths before trying. Most of the vitamins for swaying blue are good for boosting the egg and sperm. A and E are good in low doses but should be stopped before AF, for swaying pink.

[TickledPinkButLoveMyBlue]

Rainbow im doing O+12 because my cycles aren't regular enough to do a cut off.
I am still bf my 13mo ds so I can't take vitex to regulate. They seem to fluctuate around 30 days but I just wouldn't feel confident with a cutoff again as that's what we tried to do with ds but i o'd early. Plus we were using preseed and i had a somewhat boyish diet, I didn't know about swaying then. Im also tossing up fr bd and just going straight through from af to past O. Will be difficult but I have friends that swear they conceived their girls with fr bd and i mean twice a day as opposed to infrequent bd with their boys. Im 27 so not sure if it'll make any difference to the outcome. My mum had 5 boys in a row before me so Im def only having 2 children lol

[Cinss]

So your cycle is around 30 days? Making AF to O aproximatly 9 days? I think this is a bit too long, 4-5 days would be better. IMO FR would be even better, i got my DD DTD every second day all month and got PG 1st month trying at 30yrs old.

[dannikins]

i think they are normal risks that we all face regardless of age or release frequency.
they are only increased slightly by age.

my eldest son has mild autism. (autism is one of the things they say can be caused by older fathers.)
and he was conceived with us DTD at least twice a day every day.
hubby was 35 at the time.
the next 3 were less BD each conception, and they are all totally fine perfect little boys.
im not sure about this one yet, things all looked fine on the last scan, but this was a one shot deal after 7 days abstinence, and 7 days abstinence before that. and hubby will be 44 next month. i am 28.

i know perfectly healthy young couples, in their 20s ,who ended up with downs children , severe autism, and even malformation.
i think its just luck of the draw.

but i do agree, the more frequent release, the more healthy the sperm, which is what we all want really isnt it...:)

[TickledPinkButLoveMyBlue]

No af to o is around 16 days or so it'd be around 11 days from the end of bleeding to O :) we did every second day bd with my son but only bd 3 times in total that month and got pg. So confused. I was deadset on abstinence and O+12 but now im second guessing myself :/

[rainbowflower]

Rainbow im doing O+12 because my cycles aren't regular enough to do a cut off.
I am still bf my 13mo ds so I can't take vitex to regulate. They seem to fluctuate around 30 days but I just wouldn't feel confident with a cutoff again as that's what we tried to do with ds but i o'd early. Plus we were using preseed and i had a somewhat boyish diet, I didn't know about swaying then. Im also tossing up fr bd and just going straight through from af to past O. Will be difficult but I have friends that swear they conceived their girls with fr bd and i mean twice a day as opposed to infrequent bd with their boys. Im 27 so not sure if it'll make any difference to the outcome. My mum had 5 boys in a row before me so Im def only having 2 children lol
my cycles are irregular too
timing doesn't seem to sway at all given all the numerous studies that have been done into it, you could always try and BD at a pos OPK if you want a small 1-2 day cut off, or wait until a pos OPK and BD through OV

I do think that frequency sways more, but I don't think it sways drastically. Diet seems to sway the most!

if you have diet and frequency sorted, I'd just aim to do timing that will enable you to get pregnant more easily(i.e. closer to/on OV day)

[TickledPinkButLoveMyBlue]

Thanks Rainbow. def don't want to wait for opk as that's what happened with ds so trying to do something different. Thank you for the info though :)

[rainbowflower]

Thanks Rainbow. def don't want to wait for opk as that's what happened with ds so trying to do something different. Thank you for the info though :)
even though that's what you did then, it doesn't mean that that sways blue. Some studies even show more girls conceived on OV day and some studies show more girls conceived during the LH surge (that causes a pos OPK) than boys. More likely you had other blue-swaying factors in your lifestyle back then, although even with a perfect pink sway you can still get an opposite so that wouldn't prove that what you were doing was bad for pink.

trying for a cut off or attempting O+12 both mean you risk not conceiving at all, but timing doesn't seem to sway either way (or almost all studies would find similar results, but they don't)

[TickledPinkButLoveMyBlue]

Thanks rainbow. The more I think about it the more I keep thinking just do whatever and bd when the mood arises rather than planning and scheduling it in. I def didn't have a healthy pink diet before and im sure the preseed swayed heavily too so maybe you are right and I should just try bd by the opk :)

[rainbowflower]

that might be less stressful for you! just try and get your DH to release on his own (or with help) on the days when you don't BD because DTD every 2-4 days sways blue as that's what's best for sperm count

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not like flipping a light switch, it's just that there is a gradual increase as men age in birth defects anyway and abstinence makes that worse by producing worse sperm. I would imagine that 34 is safe enough, but it is different for every individual man, if that makes any sense.

Here is my series of 3 O+12 essays that you should def. read (how to is in there too) before you decide to go with O+12 - there are things you need to consider before deciding if O+12 is right for you http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-girl-best-practices/1291-o-12-part-1-history-o-12-a.html (links at bottom of first essay to other two)

[atomic sagebrush]

I've not seen any specific studies, but I do know some exist that show a link with abstaining in older men and increase in birth defects. Generally this is 35+, so your DH should be fine but it's your call

O+12 is very risky to time (i.e. leave it slightly too late and you miss the egg altogether) - do you temp?

There is def. a study, I read it when I was back on IG and we had a lot of long discussions about it but for some reason, I can't find it! I've been looking for that dang thing for a year LOL! :/

There are also several studies that show 1) abstinence makes bad sperm even in younger men and 2) men over 35 have worse sperm than younger men and 3) older men have a higher rate of fathering kids with birth defects and other, scarier disorders like autism and schizophrenia, so to my way of thinking, even tho I can't find the original study, 1 + 2 + 3 = men over 35 should not do abstain.

[atomic sagebrush]

Rainbow im doing O+12 because my cycles aren't regular enough to do a cut off.
I am still bf my 13mo ds so I can't take vitex to regulate. They seem to fluctuate around 30 days but I just wouldn't feel confident with a cutoff again as that's what we tried to do with ds but i o'd early. Plus we were using preseed and i had a somewhat boyish diet, I didn't know about swaying then. Im also tossing up fr bd and just going straight through from af to past O. Will be difficult but I have friends that swear they conceived their girls with fr bd and i mean twice a day as opposed to infrequent bd with their boys. Im 27 so not sure if it'll make any difference to the outcome. My mum had 5 boys in a row before me so Im def only having 2 children lol

It is way, way more likely that you got a boy becos of your diet and the Preseed, then any magical day you DTD on.

You CAN take vitex while BF kids 9-12 months and older, and I have done it twice with no ill effects.

[atomic sagebrush]

i think they are normal risks that we all face regardless of age or release frequency.
they are only increased slightly by age.

my eldest son has mild autism. (autism is one of the things they say can be caused by older fathers.)
and he was conceived with us DTD at least twice a day every day.
hubby was 35 at the time.
the next 3 were less BD each conception, and they are all totally fine perfect little boys.
im not sure about this one yet, things all looked fine on the last scan, but this was a one shot deal after 7 days abstinence, and 7 days abstinence before that. and hubby will be 44 next month. i am 28.

i know perfectly healthy young couples, in their 20s ,who ended up with downs children , severe autism, and even malformation.
i think its just luck of the draw.

but i do agree, the more frequent release, the more healthy the sperm, which is what we all want really isnt it...:)

Yes, younger couples can and do have kids with problems all the time but the statistical truth is, the numbers start to rise as you age, there is no getting around it.

Just becos not everyone who smokes, gets lung cancer, no one doubts the fact that smoking DOES cause lung cancer.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks Rainbow. def don't want to wait for opk as that's what happened with ds so trying to do something different. Thank you for the info though :)

It's not always necessary or good to do something different tho - if you did the Atkins diet and didn't lose weight, to turn around and say, well, that must mean that I should eat only carbs to lose weight and then start eating nothing but birthday cake...well that's not going to make you lose weight either and may even be worse.

It's the same with swaying. Best evidence we have is that timing doesn't sway, so you don't HAVE to do anything any different than you ever did. I understand wanting to hedge your bets but there are these whole enormous set of downsides that come with timing - it's stressful and detail oriented (which raises testosterone and may inadvertently sway blue), it may not even be safe in the case of very long cutoffs and O+12, and it keeps you from getting pg quickly which means you have to go on for months swaying, and my experience has been that the longer people go on not getting pg, they end up dropping everything from their sway and cheating on their diet. So they trade things that DO SWAY in this attempt to include timing, which doesn't!

[zanacal]

I just happen to be reading this thread today after my 20 week scan which confirmed my baby girl is still a girl - she was conceived on O day :D

[TickledPinkButLoveMyBlue]

Thanks rainbow. The more I think about it the more I keep thinking just do whatever and bd when the mood arises rather than planning and scheduling it in. I def didn't have a healthy pink diet before and im sure the preseed swayed heavily too so maybe you are right and I should just try bd by the opk :)

what about dtd every day from af to O or pretty much every day?

[TickledPinkButLoveMyBlue]

what about dtd every day from af to O or pretty much every day?

Or would that raise ph too much?

[zanacal]

You could use Rephresh every 3 days to bring pH down but it would need to be absolutely every day - not pretty much every day! Personally I'd have DH release throughout AF before we started BDing to make sure sperm count was low enough before my fertile window.

[atomic sagebrush]

Or would that raise ph too much?

It might but I would just use RepHresh pretty frequently - even as much as every other day - to keep that under control.