Miscarriage after Lime Douche...?

[barrebabe]

My husband and I have 2 sons, and I started the diet and supplements several months ago in anticipation of TTC in January. I did lime douche before sex and we conceived right away. I am now unfortunately miscarrying. I'm hesitant to do the lime douche again because I have fears it could have somehow affected the sperm and caused the miscarriage.

Would love any input y'all have on this as I am so hopeful for a girl and want to increase my chances. My mom actually used a vinegar douche when she conceived me as she was wanting a girl.

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, I never recommend lime douche so I'd love to see it go!

That having been said to the best of our knowledge the way it's used for swaying, lime douche does not contribute to miscarriage. While douching often for many years can cause internal scarring that may cause miscarriages, once in a while it should not have that effect and that scarring takes years to develop anyway (so even if one douche could cause the inflammation and scarring that constant douching does, it wouldn't have happened quickly enough to affect this pregnancy)

I am more concerned when you say "supplements". Some of the sway supps recommended on other sites can cause or contribute to miscarriage and so I'd be happy to go over those for you and see if you're taking anything you may want to avoid in the future.

So sorry for your loss. :heart:

[barrebabe]

Thank you so much for your reply! I did see reading here more yesterday after my post that you do not recommend douching. My mom has talked about her vinegar douche when trying to conceive me for so long that I automatically have had that in my head to try when TTC a girl. Do you just think douching doesn't affect anything? That it can cause harm? Or that pH doesn't sway? Just wanting to get the facts straight and decide what I'm doing when we start trying again.

I am taking Calcium and Magnesium. And prenatals with methylated folate as I have the MTHFR mutation. I did stop taking the Calc and Mag when I got my BFP.

[barrebabe]

Adding a little more info about me...

-I also took Cranberry (forgot in previous post), but I did stop that after our attempts and O.
-I exercise A LOT. Problem is, I was exercising a lot when I conceived both of my boys. (I'm a fitness instructor.)
-I drink a lot of wine, but was also drinking like that when I conceived my boys.
-I had cut caffeine when I conceived my first son (was drinking decaf) b/c of infertility, but I was drinking caffeinated coffee when I conceived my second son. I was drinking decaf when I conceived this baby I just lost.
-I was already doing intermittent fasting (basically just skipping breakfast every day) prior to my sway so just continued that until my BFP.
-I have a very healthy diet in general, cut out red meat and cut down on all meat for the sway. Also worked to cut a lot of salt out and reduce snacking quite a bit.

[barrebabe]

Sorry I'm responding to myself again lol. Did more reading, so wanted to run my plan for swaying after this mc by you.

-Start LE diet now. That will include staying within the calorie/fat/protein limits and skipping breakfast. I will keep my morning coffee and use creamer and Splenda. Add in Crystal Light throughout the day. I plan to keep limiting potassium and sodium as I was previously. Will go vegetarian or almost vegetarian lol.

-Keep taking Calcium Citrate and Magnesium at 2:1 ratio, but no Cranberry b/c of my bleeding and mc. Will stop prenatals and switch to Methylated Folate on its own until BFP and then go back to prenatals. Maybe add in iron since the mc...?

-Keep up exercise 6 days a week, heavy on cardio.

-Keep enjoying my wine.

-Not sure about timing. I previously did not want to limit attempts as I've had infertility in the past, although that appears to maybe be a non-issue for us. It's hard for me to imagine doing just one attempt or even E4D though since I desperately want to be pg again soon. What is the theory behind one attempt? I need to search more on this site, as I'm sure you've already explained many times over. :)

-I may try the lime douche again, haven't decided on that.

[barrebabe]

I'm going to start Zrytec also.

[atomic sagebrush]

can you bump this for me?

[barrebabe]

can you bump this for me?

Bump :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't think (and our results have shown) that douching does anything and it also cuts odds of conception. We had a statistician analyze our results and found that the jellies and douching did not work at all, and since going on a long time not conceiving often messes with people' heads and so they give up on things that DO work, like diet, exercise, one attempt, they end up inadvertently undermining their sway. It's fine if you want to try it for a couple months (like I mentioed before, the type of short term douching done for swaying doesn't cause the scarring that may up chances of a loss) but just drop it before dropping diet, exercise, or adding attempts.

I would actually have you let the cranberry go. It doesn't work (again, our results showed that) aand the problem with aspirin is that it's a strong bloodthinner. So when you take in prior to O, and then drop it suddenly at ovulation, what we speculate may happen is that your blood then goes from being really thin to suddenly thickening up (because your body is making too many clotting factors, and it takes time to "realize" this has happened) and this may inhibit implantation. This is speculation (not to mention that having too thin of blood when taking it causes lots of risks and side effects to you!) but since it does nothing anyway does not seem to me to be a worthwhile chance to take. I have never recommended cranberry and I would ahve anyone who has had a loss, skip it.

Next time I'd be sure to wean off calcium and magnesium. Stopping nutrients suddenly is never a good idea, esp. when pregnant.

I believe wine and coffee sway pink so I'd continue those.

When you say "limiting potassium" how much do you estimate you're getting?

We don't know why one attempt works. What happened was, my big thing is preventing what happened back on Ingender where people went on years not conceiving. My number one goal with this site was to eliminate that. So in the early days of this site, we had people do all the traditional stuff, like douching, jelly, timing, frequency, antihistamine, herbs, etc and then since no one could get pregnant doing all that stuff, we had them add attempts to boost chances of conceiving. Our results were TERRIBLE - only 58%. But because we were tracking results, we realized that the people who only had sex one time were getting 75%, the people who had had 2 attempts were getting 60%, and those that had 3 had dropped all the way down to 43% (even with otherwise great sways). And at the same time, the traditional tactics were not working - same number of people getting girls with and without them. The only conclusion I could draw was that one attempt was doing something, even though we didn't know what or how. So we made that switch, and immediately our results went up and have stayed up ever since (and it's been 7 years now of consistently higher results). So even though I can only speculate as to why, I'm pretty darn sold on the one attempt and cannot ever recommend having anything more than 2 attempts in the fertile window unless you've been trying for quite some time.

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm going to start Zrytec also.

No zyrtec especially after a loss. It dries up the fluids in your fallopian tubes and may make it harder for the egg to survive long enough to make it to the uterus to implant.

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm fine with 18-30 mg iron 3x a week or up to 65 2x while swaying after a loss.

When u say 2:1 ratio of cal mag how much specificlly. Too much mag is bad and the ratio is nonsense.

[barrebabe]

Thank you so much!!

I definitely know that my embryo implanted as an ultrasound showed baby high in the fundus and the yolk sac and fetal pole. Unfortunately I miscarried shortly after that (6 weeks). We got pregnant with this baby first month trying with 2 attempts on back-to-back days. It seems worth a shot for me to drop to one attempt at least for a few months since my last 2 pregnancies were achieved in the first month trying (my 2nd son was actually a surprise but first time we didn't prevent). That also makes me maybe think it's worth to try the douche again since it didn't hinder this last conception, but I do believe you that your results here have shown it not to be effective in a sway. So I'll have to think more on the douche! If I do decide to continue with the douche, you recommend lime over vinegar? Or you have no opinion lol?

I will follow your advice for all else, so thank you. I def need to wean off the supps this time - I stopped them cold turkey last time. I will completely drop cranberry and avoid Zyrtec.

I was not tracking potassium previously but I was just avoiding bananas and potatoes but not doing anything else in particular. Limiting sodium is the hardest for me, but I have read here you aren't big on that so hopefully the sodium I get will be okay! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Right, but the thing of it is we can't always see what happens and so if something messed with implantation, it could possibly slow growth and cause possible issues. We honestly do not know how the entire process works (even the brightest medical minds, let alone me, LOL) and so I just like you guys to ditch anything potentialy problematic unless it's been strongly shown to help (and none of the supps have been).

For whatever reason I prefer vinegar. I don't know if it's because I feel it is more time tested, or because I've seen so many people not conceive with the lime, but I just have a better feeling about it. EVen though I don't think it does anything for swaying, I just feel better about it more for health and safety than I do lime.

Yep I'm not into either the potassium limit (my daughter is about 30% potato, LOL) or the sodium. I got my daughter eating tons of sodium and we've given that up years ago now and our results are higher than ever.

The reason I ask is just making sure you were getting enough potassium. This is for your health - we often have people show up who are eating NO potassium and you can die from that. The potassium limits on all sway diets are the same since it's the amount needed for your body to work right - 2500-3500 mg daily.

[barrebabe]

Thank you! You make a good point about the implantation - baby clearly did implant but you're right in that it could have not fully or healthfully implanted which caused me problems that led to the loss.

Thanks for your insight about the vinegar vs. lime. Like I've mentioned, my mom did a vinegar douche to conceive me (34 years ago!) - although of course that does not mean that has any barring on why I'm a girl.

I definitely know I need potassium - have just been cutting out those 2 foods that are high in it, but I'm not trying to avoid it in any other way.

Question about timing - I read your essay about why timing does not work to sway, but now am reading more recent info on one attempt. I just don't think my OCD/TTC mind can do just one attempt, so do you think I'd be better off doing 2 nights in a row after +OPK or EOD after +OPK - so 2 attempts total either back to back in days or skip a day...? I'm leaning towards 2 nights in a row but let me know your thoughts or if you think it matters. I tend to agree with your article that timing doesn't matter at all, but I know y'all are now seeing good results with one attempt. I just don't think I'm cut out for only trying once in the cycle!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yeah. It's just speculation but when things don't help sways anyway, it makes more sense to me to avoid things that could cause issues even if they're not proven.

I don't think there's any difference between back to back and skipping a day. Whichever you prefer. :)