Frequency and timing for men over 40

[dreamgirl2]

So, my hubby is 41! Our son was conceived by three attempts around the ovulation two and half years ago! So, my husband wasn’t too young by then either. I am so desperate for a girl I am trying everything, taking all supplements to increase acidity and nearly the diet as well. I am underweight so hoping that would sway girl too. I’m gonna use Refresh to lower my ph too. The question is should my hubby abstain or fr for 7 days! We did protected bd on Sunday and my ovulation will be next Tuesday or Wednesday so if we don’t bd again then I go with 2 day cut off that gives us 8, 9 days of abstain! Or if you suggest doing the frequency then we can start from today! Also, I’ve read about compress frequency! What do you think of that in my case! I really want to get pregnant, I have tried with 4 day cut off and abstain for 10 days in the last two months but hasn’t worked! Maybe because of 4 day cut off! I just want it to happen this month but I don’t want to lose chance of having a girl with a few attempts plus I’m worried about my husband’ sperm quality too!

[atomic sagebrush]

Can you tell me what you mean by "taking all supplements" because many of the supplements are extremely dangerous to mix together.

Your husband can't do abstain at 41. it isn't safe (and nor does it work anyway). He could do FR between then and now OR

The compressed FR was too taxing. Men couldn't stick with it and it required so much "control freakishness" we've given up on it. Most people who tried it never got pregnant doing it, and quite a lot of them found their husbands were unable to BD at all when it came time for the attempt - which leads to a wasted month.

4 day cutoff has been shown in the best study done on timing and conception to be 1 in 1000 chance of conception. 3 or even better 2 day cutoffs are much better for conception (although timing doesn't sway)

I would be considering dropping RepHresh at this point. Now is when we start dropping things, not adding them. RepHresh hasn't worked and has really cut chances of conceiving (especially with cutoffs) so I'd not recommend that, but it's your call to make, of course.

[dreamgirl2]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply! I was thinking vitex would help me get pregnant. I have seen it has been recommended in many websites and some people here as well! If it’s going to stop my ovulation then should I just stop it now? Wouldn’t it bad for my body to stop just now a few days before ovulation?
I will stop cranberry tablets as well! I think I am kind of in your low everything diet because I am a but underweight obviously apart from having the banana and tomato which I don’t like anyway! Would caffein matter?
Also, about the fr instead of abstaining, I think it is too late now because I will probably ovulate next Wednesday and it Thursday night and y husband is away working on the weekend back on Sunday so even if he agrees to release himself then that will be 6 days prior ovulation and 4 or 5 days before our bd! I’m getting worried now because I don’t want to risk the DnA damage but I still want a girl! What is the option now? I was thinking doing the compressed fr to reduce the odds of sperm quality but now that you are saying it doesn’t work, do you think I should just forget about both the FR and abstain and do the protected bd once or twice before the actual bd for ttc?! I’m gonna do only one attempt as you suggested. I was thinking of having a good plan but really worried now that things are not right! Neither my supplements are ok nor the plan to bd! I haven’t used Refresh, I was going to use it this time! So, you are saying I don’t do anything to lower the ph just to increase my chances of getting pregnant?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Well, we have a pitiful 54% pink (as opposed to 69% for the overall success rate of the site) with vitex and when we had a statistician analyze our results they thought vitex even swayed blue! (I don't think it sways blue, but it sure is not a magic bullet for pink, either.)

I have firsthand seen hundreds of people for whom vitex delayed or even stopped ovulation and hundreds more who stayed regular on vitex but just never got pregnant till they dropped it. Vitex was used as birth control and as a libido killer in the middle ages, hence its nickname "chasteberry". The only people helped by vitex are those with severe PCOS (and there are lots of other things that work better than vitex for them). For people without PCOS it lowers their hormone levels and in many cases prevent pregnancy.

Since you're underweight be sure you're eating enough to not lose any more weight. You don't need to lose any more weight, just hold steady where you're at.

I would just let hubby "do what he does" and then have the one attempt. None of the frequency stuff worked and it all caused soooo much stress and trouble for people we've mostly given it up.

RepHresh is at your discretion. If you want to use it, it's your call to make, but it does lower odds of conception and doesn't work at all. When we analyzed our stats we found equal numbers of people getting girls with and without using it.

[dreamgirl2]

Thank you so much for your reply. It’s so helpful! I wish I had know you from a few months a go when I started preparing for my sway!
I’ve stopped vitex and cranberry now but I’m CD 10 now so not really sure how it will affect this cycle and ovulation an now! Maybe I’ll lose this month and pregnancy doesn’t happen again but at least I know not to go back on it!
I read in one of the other forums that you suggested taking antihistamine! I’ve started taking Citirizine from yesterday, does that help at all? Do you suggest using fiber supplements? Obviously, I’ve lost this cycle but I would take it as I’m now not sure from what you said there will be a success with our conception this month! Also, do you agree with jump and dump? Should I do it soon after or wait 10 mins and then do it? I’m so grateful I’ve found you!


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[dreamgirl2]

I’ve just deleted the message because it seems that I am ovulating early this month!

[dreamgirl2]

Hi again!

Sorry, you’re probably getting annoyed by my messages now! So, surprisingly, I have seen the smily face in the digital ovulation stick today morning and literally 2,3 days earlier than I expected so you ignore my questions about 2-4 days bd! my husband is away so we can’t bd until tomorrow 1 pm and that gives us 6 days of abstaining! There is no way he can release today because he is on a shift until 4 am! Would that still be too risky for the DNA damage?! If it is, what do you suggest doing?
The ovulation sticks also shows high surge but I’m still checking it every 4 hrs to get the darkest point to know exactly the ovulation day because last month I had dark colour for a couple of days and it was just getting darker until it was changed to light which I suppose is when I had ovulation later that day. Is there anything else I can do to increase my chances? Thanks a million!



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[atomic sagebrush]

I don't recommend cetirizine per se. It hasn't worked and cuts odds of conception. It's fine if you want to take it but I don't think it does anything.

Fiber may help a bit by absorbing some nutrients from your diet.

Yes jump and dump did seem to add a little something to our success rates, I'd wait 5-10 minutes and then do it.

So happy to be of help!! LMK if you have any more questions!

[atomic sagebrush]

No not at all!

The risks of abstain are really really small. Very minor. But my thinking is why, since abstain doesn't even work and cuts odds of conception, why would we do something that may have even the slightest risk of harm since it doesn't help our sway? So it's fine to go ahead, it's really no big deal (like lightning strike possibility) but I have you guys avoid it since it doesn't help a sway anyway.

You can't tell the ovulation day by when your OPK is darkest or when it goes negative. That's not how OPK work. All they test is the presence of hormone in your urine, but the hormone is just a "message" your body sends to itself. It can "hear" the message even when it's just whispering (lighter positive) and will still trigger ovulation, even if the message gets way louder later on, it already got the message when the signal was sent in the first place and so you'll tend to ovulate about 36 hours on average after the FIRST positive, not the darkest. And the rate at which the test goes negative does not tell you if or when you've ovulated. You can ovulate and still have positive tests for a couple days after, you can have a test go negative and still not have ovulated yet. It's just the rate at which your body clears the hormone via the urine.

[dreamgirl2]

Thanks a lot! In that case, my ovulation might be even tomorrow that I’m going to bd because I saw the first dark today morning! I’m hoping to be ok as timing is debunked now as far as I am only doing one attempt and jump and dump too. Please have your fingers crossed for my pink sway! I’ll let you know! that’s our third month trying although the previous months were with big cutoffs so really hope it works!


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[dreamgirl2]

Hi again! We never managed to bd at all because my husband haven’t come home! His business is so unexpected that this always happens! So, I guess we are losing our chances! I’m gonna try tonight but I really don’t know if we succeed with him being so tired and obviously very late as I saw the smiley face yesterday morning! I just wonder if you have any suggestions for me to try for next month? I’m going to start the fiber from tomorrow and add more coffee and alcohol! I can’t exercise at all because I work 3 days and I don’t have anyone to look after my 18 month son the other days. I’ll try to do some walking every now and then but nothing constant!


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[atomic sagebrush]

oh bummer, I'm so sorry! But I do hope you were able to get an attept in - and I want you do to e4d for a couple tries after this in case your O is delayed. (so in 72 hours after your last attempt, have sex again, and then again in another 72 hr)

If you tried last night you were almost certainly in the window still. If you try tonight, you're still possibly in the window, I'd def. go for it.

[dreamgirl2]

Hi! We managed to bd on Sunday night! I saw the positive smiley face on Saturday morning! I don’t know if it has worked at all. I think Sunday was my ovulation day because LH started to drop on Sunday and I had lots of egg white mucus! I had egg white mucus prior to that for a few days but on Sunday it was the most! I know these can’t necessarily mean ovulation so really don’t know!! It’s just waiting game now! When do you think it’s the best time to do a pregnancy test? Do I just wait until my period which is in 10 days?
So, if it doesn’t happen I just start the E4D? Starting from the day my period finishes, doing every four days? Is that right? How long should I do it? Do I just carry on until a couple of days after the smiley face? Do you suggest I take the fiber supplements and alcohol every night too? Thanks


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[atomic sagebrush]

I would still ahve you do e4d starting now, just in case it was a fake surge and you may surge again and O at that time.

Yes for the upcoming cycle you'd start after your period ends and continue every 72 hours till you're sure you've ovulated, and if anything you should keep going after you think you've Oed, since you can ovulate late and have a false surge.

Yes continue fiber all month, alcohol is at your discretion. Some continue, most drop it at O.

[dreamgirl2]

I actually think I did ovulate because I had all the signs that I usually have to ovulate and I haven’t had any just after that. I think because I was taking vitex for a couple of months my ovulation was later than usual and then when I stopped it, my cycle got a bit messy and I ovulated earlier than before because I remember my ovulation used to be sometime between CD12-14 in a 28 days cycle but since I started taking the vitex it changed to CD16,17 having 30, 31 days cycle! So, I’m so glad you mentioned vitex is not any good in swaying and can mess up with the cycle! Now that I have stopped it hopefully everything goes back to normal.
I have missed to try the E4D this cycle but will definitely do try it next cycle. Can I ask how it works to sway pink if 1 attempt is supposed to sway pink? I’ve read in a forum you mentioned it’s like doing one attempt but I don’t understand the logic of it! Thanks


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes but the signs are caused by hormones so you can have the signs, your body decides not to ovulate, then in a few days or a week it will have the same signs and then ovulate at that point.

The e4d works as one attempt because anything further than O-3 has very little chance (practically zero) of getting to the egg. So with an O-4 and then O-1 attempt, the O-4 will be too far out. With O-5 and O-2, the O-5 will be long gone, leaving only the O-2. And in the case of O-3 and O Day, the O-3 ~can~ stay alive, although not terribly likely. And if there's anything left from the O-3, it will fertilize the egg before the O DAy attempt has a chance to capacitate and make it to the egg (still one attempt) IF there isn't anything left from O-3, the O Day shot will get it done.

[dreamgirl2]

Ok that makes sense. But can I just clarify it so for example if I bd cd6,9,12 and I get the positive LH smiley face on cd13 meaning my ovulation is cd 14 then obviously we are losing our chances of bding on the most fertile time so should we bd on cd14 or just carry on bding on cd 15 or don’t even bd on cd 15?


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[atomic sagebrush]

One of the drawbacks of BD at positive OPK is that it may NOT be the most fertile time. We assume it is, but when that isn't working for people, it very well may be that for them, they'd have had better chance BD the day before that, or the day after that. It may be that you personally could go on a very long time BD on what the average person's "most fertile time" is and it would never be a good time for you to conceive!

The whole point of the e4d is to introduce an element of randomness into a closed system - to change it up when we're having our attempts!

You MUST keep going after you think you've ovulated and after your surge. This is to guard against delayed ovulation and to help in case your "most fertile time" is a different day than you think it should be. So you would still have sex the day the e4d falls on. In this case, 12, 15, 18, etc until you're absolutely certain you've ovulated.

[dreamgirl2]

Alright! I’ve now got the point! Last question, do we need to start bding exactly from the first day my period finishes? For example mine is usually finished on cd 5 and I am sure I am definitely not fertile at least til cd9 so do still I have to start on cd6? Or can I start from cd8 and carry on e4d?


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[dreamgirl2]

Also, what do you think I should do if I don’t get pregnant with E4D? Should I just forget about swaying pink and do as many attempts as possible next month? But I really want a girl!


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[atomic sagebrush]

No I just like you guys to start before the fertile window opens, that's all. Starting CD 8 is fine.

I want you to try e4d for a couple months and then go to e4d plus one for at least 3 months. DO NOT just start having lots of attempts. That is neither a good plan for pink OR a good way to get pregnant because too many attempts at the wrong time do not help you conceive.

We have to work smarter, not harder, and also have patience.

[dreamgirl2]

Ok, we’ll do that. Hopefully it doesn’t take long! It’s very odd for me because with my son I got pregnant first time round! That’s why I’ quite impatient but you are right if I want my girl I need to be patient and on’t rush into doing stupid things. I’ve had my periods 4 days early just today and obviously our bd last cycle on the second day of smiley face never worked! so we’ll start our E4d on cd8 doing every 72 hrs starting next Sunday and I desperately hope it works! Please have your fingers crossed for me! I’ll keep you posted. Thanks


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[atomic sagebrush]

Fingers and toes crossed too! :) LMK if you need anything.

[dreamgirl2]

Thanks! Do you think it’s a good idea to take Clomid? Obviously not from my dr but get it online? I don’t know what it does and it is helpful at all if I already have ovulation but I just read it helps getting pregnant and sways pink!


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[atomic sagebrush]

I always recommend Clomid if you can get it, but I can't recommend getting it online for liability reasons. If you do happen to come across some then I can advise you how to take it safely but it's of course best to get from your doc.

We don't know how Clomid works for swaying. We have studied that shows it does and in our results it's gotten good results.

[dreamgirl2]

I don’t think my doctor would prescribe that here as I am not in the category of infertile yet based on their criteria!
I’ll see if I can find a trustworthy website to get them.
How about any supplements? I think I mentioned before that I don’t eat a lot but I try to eat everything so I’m kind of in LE diet! I do eat lots of fruit and veg, milk, yogurt, meat and everything else but I probably dont eat as many calories as other people and I’ve always been like that. I’ve started eating more carbs recently when you mentioned it helps swaying pink but I generally don’t eat much breakfast (coffee and 1toast) and usually skip lunch or eat very little at lunch too but I do eat a good well-balanced nutrient dinner followed by fruits and some nights ice-cream before bed. I’m now getting worried that I may need to gain some weight to get pregnant or take supplements! I know you think conception supplements, iron and vitamin B sway boy and I did that with my son of course I didn’t know that by then! I took lots of supplements and ate more than usual for a couple of months and gained a little more weight and I fell pregnant first month but with a boy! So, it’s really hard this time and I’m really getting worried and stressed what I should do!


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[dreamgirl2]

Also, can you tell me to use the ovulation strips or the Clearblue digital one? I’ve tried both of them so far doing in the morning just after I wake up and at nights after three to four hours of not going to the toilets and I usually start from CD8!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Are you ovulating?

The Clomid helps a lot to get you to ovulate even at a lower weight. I'd try holding steady and seeing how it goes using the Clomid if you can get some. (or even not!)

If the striips are reliable for you you don't need the Clearblues. But some prefer the certainty of seeing the digital result. Totally up to you, whichever you prefer and works for you.

[dreamgirl2]

I’ve had a look at the websites to get the Clomid but they don’t seem to be very trustable websites so I doubt I can get it. However, I think I actually ovulate because I get the high LH surge and the positive clearblue digital one. I know they can show false ones but I do get a lot of eggwhite mucus so I think that shows I do ovulate. So , I’m not sure if Clomid would help me.
I’ll do the E4D this month with every 72hrs bd and see what happens. I am just a bit stressed why it’s not happened so far and I want it really desperately to happen as soon as possible!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Clomid can help even if you're ovulating, both for conception and for swaying, but it's ok if you can't get it! Most of us don't (myself included)

EWCM does not mean you've ovulated. Your body can gear up to ovulate and even have symptoms, and then it just kinda changes its mind. But if you're getting your period every month the odds are very high that you're ovulating.

E4d will cover your bases!

[dreamgirl2]

How successful is E4D plus one? I’m really getting desperate to get pregnant this month! I’m going on a 6 week holiday end of June and if we lose this month then we can’t try until August which is a long time! I was thinking if E4D plus one has the same success rate as E4D then I just do that instead!


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[atomic sagebrush]

We can't compare them because I only have people go to e4d plus one after a long time trying, which may mean they are less fertile and are on diet longer than people who get pregnant with one attempt and with e4d.

If I thought e4d plus one would be as pink friendly as e4d then I would have you guys start with that. But we have evidence that indicates two attempts (which e4d plus one will be two, possibly even three) is going to be worse than one attempt so I cannot ever have anyone start off with that.

[dreamgirl2]

Thanks a lot! Do you think taking COQ10 or Myoinositol help getting pregnant at all? Do they interfere with swaying pink?

[dreamgirl2]

Is lubricant not allowed in pink sway? If we need to use it, is there any one that you recommend? Or just forget about it totally?


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[dreamgirl2]

Hi again! Sorry I’m just going crazy looking at different Facebook groups for gender sway and getting stressed! Does PH still get high result? I looked at the spreadsheets and it seems it has good result but I have also read in a forum you mentioned it doesn’t get good results plus we shouldn’t only look at the statistics in the spreadsheets to get answers! There are lots of Facebook groups that have debunked the timing but still believe we should test the PH and keep it low to sway girl! I’m really confused!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks a lot! Do you think taking COQ10 or Myoinositol help getting pregnant at all? Do they interfere with swaying pink?

Coq10 is fine, although I don't really think it's a miracle drug.

Myoinositol is only for people who need it. For those who don't it causes a lot of trouble. Do you have reason to think you need it??

[atomic sagebrush]

Is lubricant not allowed in pink sway? If we need to use it, is there any one that you recommend? Or just forget about it totally?


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Sperm safe, conception friendly only when you're having trouble conceiving. Smallest amounts you need for comfy BD as larger amounts may sway blue.

The allegedly pink friendly jellies did not work and really cut odds of conception.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi again! Sorry I’m just going crazy looking at different Facebook groups for gender sway and getting stressed! Does PH still get high result? I looked at the spreadsheets and it seems it has good result but I have also read in a forum you mentioned it doesn’t get good results plus we shouldn’t only look at the statistics in the spreadsheets to get answers! There are lots of Facebook groups that have debunked the timing but still believe we should test the PH and keep it low to sway girl! I’m really confused!


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pH does not do anything. We had our results analyzed by a statistician and every single pH method had the identical results for those who got girls and those who got boys. It does nothing but cut odds of conception.

Those Facebook groups are full of really unhealthy and unscientific advice. Be sure to run their tips past me before using them (especially the ones regarding supplements!)

[dreamgirl2]

Thanks a lot atomic you are a great help! I just get really confused with contradicting things I see on the Facebook and to be honest I think I should get out of all those pages because they do stress me out and I am already stressed with the whole swaying and conceiving idea and don’t need any more!
We have managed to bd without lubricant but just in case we need it.

I just saw the myoinositol and COQ10 in some websites and forums saying they would help with conception but No I don’t have any specific health reason that I have to use them so far! So I may get the COQ10 if you think it might be good although I think it’s too late for this cycle as I am on CD10 and have had bd on CD6 and 9! How should I eat it? Is that end of period to ovulation or the whole cycle?

Also, about E4D, so we are supposed to bd again on CD12 and 15! I haven’t had a flashing face yet so I may not have my ovulation until CD14! My question is if I don’t get the smiley face or high LH on CD12 do you think it’s a good idea to wait and bd on CD13 instead? I’m worried if I ovulate on CD15 then CD12 is too far from it and as we bd at nights then CD 15 would be too late like last month! Sorry for this, I’m really worried these days and you’re the only person I trust who can help too!



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[atomic sagebrush]

I don't think the coq10 does anything really but I understand sometimes you just have to feel like you're doing something.

You can start it now and it won't cause any harm. At BFP be sure to wean off it though rather than just stopping cold turkey

The "magic" of e4d is that you are not thinking about it, worrying about it, trying to make it come out a certain way. Because you don't truly know when you'll ovulate. It may be CD 14 but it may be CD 13 or it may be CD 16! It may be CD 14 but that CD 12 was actually a great day to BD to conceive that day. You just don't know. Please just do the e4d pattern as it falls without moving any of the days.

[dreamgirl2]

Ok thanks! It’s so hard! I’m just overanalysing the whole situation as I’m stressed about it so much but you’re right! We’ll just go ahead with the pattern and see what happens!


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[dreamgirl2]

Is there anything that helps with implantation? I’ve heard eating B6 and pineapple after the ovulation? Is that just another myth?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Is there anything that helps with implantation? I’ve heard eating B6 and pineapple after the ovulation? Is that just another myth?


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No. It's not necessary to take things for implantation and in fact it may cause more trouble (some of the things people suggest cause more harm than good.) EAting pineapple is harmless but no B6 and do not take the bromelain supplements (active ingredient in pineapple)

[dreamgirl2]

Hello! Unfortunately, our E4D didn’t work either! I took a pregnancy test which was 8dpo and 5 days to my period and it was negative. I’m absolutely devastated! I was really hoping it would work and interesting thing was that we bd either O-1 or O day based on E4D so I was really hopeful but no luck again! So, I will be trying this month again but do you think I just stick to E4D? Do I need to change anything? Anything in my diet? Or should I do E4D+1? It’s so frustrating! I’m going to see my doctor next week to get checked as well.


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[atomic sagebrush]

Some months just arent the month, though. When it's BFN we often assume we did something wrong, but sometimes (a lot) there's something awry with egg or sperm or they don't find each other and it doesn't mean that in a different month you couldn't do the exact same thing and have conceived.

So what to do next is at your discretion. For best odds of pink, stick with e4d, for better odds of conception, add the additional attempt at pos OPK while continuing the e4d attempt.

[dreamgirl2]

Ok thanks! I should have a think about it. I really want to get pregnant soon but I do want a girl so badly! It’s always been my dream to be a mum of a girl! I may try E4d for another month and see what happens! Thanks


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[atomic sagebrush]

Hey, also I can send you the original version of your plan if you would like, just message me your email (by clicking my user name) and I'll send you the original, or else you can wait for tech support to reformat and post it in your custom coaching forum.

[dreamgirl2]

Does taking a prenatal vitamin really have an impact on swaying? I used to take them for a few month with my boy and obviously he is a boy! But I think it helped me to get pregnant! What do you think about it?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Prenatals do not help you get pregnant (unless you are a famine victim living in a 3rd world country or who is profoundly nutritionally deficient from years of eating disorder or chronic disease. They are fine to start at BFP.

YES they really have an impact on swaying. I can't recommend them for pink because they a)don't help anyone get or stay pregnant, only folic acid/folate does and b) they sway blue and we had 80% success for blue with them (plus a blue sway)

[dreamgirl2]

Alright! That makes sense! I think it’s just the way they are advertised that are so misleading! I will then just stick to folate and have my fingers crossed!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes they really push them but of course most of the people promoting them are making money that way.

The best research available indicates it is fine to start them at BFP (and may even be desirable for some people who respond badly to the B vitamins)

[dreamgirl2]

Thanks a lot atomic!


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