Vitamin b6 and vitex

[twinkle]

Hello again everyone. I have been away for a while as our last m/c has taken alot to phisicaly recover from. Anyway a quick run down

I had a m/c of twins Lost first one in May 11 and the 2nd in June 11. Had ERPC or D&C in june and my life kind of went a bit downhill from there was told i had PID then told it was strep then told i have a hormone imbalance.

I had been eating a not strict pink diet for a little while before the pregnacy too ease myself in and loose some pregnacy weight and then after the m/c went straight back into it in the hope i would recover the next month and didnt want to waste time waiting another 6 weeks to get back into it.

Anyway im rambling now to correct the hormone imbalace i have been taking vitex (started last month) which gave me a 24 day cycle the last one was 22. But my LP was 9-10 days +opk was cd13 af on the 25 day and have been told to try vitimin b6 as well to help. What is the safe way to take vitex and b6 while ttc?? i know some are to take af- ovulation and some you come off slowly after your BFP

Thank you for your help and taking the time to read

[twinkle]

This is what im doing at the moment

Folic acid - whole month
Baby asprin - 1 3x a week whole cycle
Vitex - whole cycle
B6 - ??? havent a clue how much or when to take it really
cetirizine hydochloride - one a day af-ovulation
Rephresh - 1/2 a tube every 3 days af - ovulation
Timing - one off try with a 2 day cut off (may change this as timing is hard with my cycles at the moment)

We are trying to be team baby as we are so desprate to have another baby but i just cant give up on my sway compleatly and a part sway has to be better than none at all

[rainbowflower]

sorry for your losses. I've had similar luteal phase issues since my AFs arrived as I'm still BF so I'm taking:

morning:
400mcg folic acid (all cycle)
400mg vitex (AF-OV)
30mg B6 (OV-AF)

evening:
800mcg folic acid (all cycle)
400mg vitex (AF-OV)
30mg vit B6 (all cycle)
1000mg omega 3 only fish oil (every other night from AF-1ww) - this one is said to improve your uterine lining so implantation is easier. I believe this is important if you have a luteal phase defect to give the egg a better chance


during the day I'm also drinking 2 cups of raspberry leaf tea because it:
1- hormone balancing, so can mildly help luteal phases
2- lowers pH
3- improves uterine lining, again - giving that fertilised egg a better chance of implanting

[twinkle]

thank you so much for the info. i think i might get some omega 3 fish oil as well then, I drink pepermint tea with aspartamine in but i dont think i could do the rasberry leaf tea as well but my LP is the one thing im worried about and at 37 i dont think i really have a lot of time on myside bearing in mind it has been 8 months since my last m/c and im just getting back on track

[rainbowflower]

I'd perhaps switch from peppermint to RLT then if you couldn't do both - RLT has more benefits than the peppermint and I add some sweetener to that too

the omega 3 also has the benefit of improving egg quality BTW - hopefully that means less chance of MCs too

have you been TTC since your MC?

[twinkle]

I did to begin with, but i got so poorly and was on antibiotics for about 2 months we stopped but i remained on the diet of sorts (vegataran and tried to keep to low everything) as i wanted to be ready ttc as soon as i was ok again. We have been back trying properly since december but with christmas diet went a bit out the window with far too many cheats , i hoping all the other things we have done will help as i dont want to wait a cycle to try again. A healthy happy baby to take home is the most iportant thing a little girl would be a added bonus. I need to be more strict with myself over what i eat

[rainbowflower]

I think Christmas was long ago that you don't need to worry about some cheats back then :)

you're right, a healthy baby is most important and pink is a bonus

[twinkle]

Thanks for your help im going to look at getting some rlt next week and try it Ive also look at the boots website and they are doing 3 for 2 on the vitamins and going to get some omega 3, with a bit of luck i will have enough time to build some super cozy linning for a bean very soon

[atomic sagebrush]

First of all I'm happy to see you again Twinkle but sorry it's under these circumstances. :( (((hugs)))

Can you please tell me more about this hormonal imbalance? Who told you this? Did you receive a proper diagnosis from a medical doctor? There are many types of hormonal imbalance and in order to proceed safely I need to know a bit more info so I can best help you know what to take and when. If this is not a medical diagnosis and just something told to you by an herbalist, then we need to proceed differently as well.

B6 is fine to take (I would have you start at 50 mg every day of yoru cycle) BUT I personally would have you contact your doctor for advice and see if they will give you prog. suppositories. I am under the impression that in the UK that is not always something doctors are willing to help you with so def. start the B6 now. This amount of B6 is safe to take throughout your cycle and also into pregnancy.

Clomid is something that will help you lengthen your luteal phase in a much more effective way than B6, but again, you may not be able to get ahold of it. If it were up to me, I would have you consult a doctor and try to get Clomid and/or progesterone supplementation because they are both much more effective than B6, but I understand that may not be possible with your medical care system.

When you are TTC, vitex is best taken AF-O only. This should help with any hormonal imbalance.

[atomic sagebrush]

I'd perhaps switch from peppermint to RLT then if you couldn't do both - RLT has more benefits than the peppermint and I add some sweetener to that too

the omega 3 also has the benefit of improving egg quality BTW - hopefully that means less chance of MCs too

have you been TTC since your MC?

I would not have you drink pep tea with any sort of hormonal imbalance. Switch to RLT, definitely.

Do be aware that omega 3 may sway blue but WILL help make a heatlhy baby.

[atomic sagebrush]

This is what im doing at the moment

Folic acid - whole month
Baby asprin - 1 3x a week whole cycle
Vitex - whole cycle
B6 - ??? havent a clue how much or when to take it really
cetirizine hydochloride - one a day af-ovulation
Rephresh - 1/2 a tube every 3 days af - ovulation
Timing - one off try with a 2 day cut off (may change this as timing is hard with my cycles at the moment)

We are trying to be team baby as we are so desprate to have another baby but i just cant give up on my sway compleatly and a part sway has to be better than none at all

How much folic? Should be 2000 mcg at least with a history of m/c.

:agree: baby aspirin

Switch vitex to AF-O only

Don't take cetirizine on O day, stop the day before O just to be cautious. Also, you do not need to take it from AF-O, you only need to take it for 4-5 days prior to O, or any day you have EWCM, whichever is longer. this may be something to drop if you don't get pg because you need at least some EWCM to conceive.

:agree: Rephresh altho you may want to drop it if you don't get pg.

Timing - one attempt with a two day cutoff (plus everything else you're doing) is almost certainly going to prevent pregnancy. You may as well be on birth control. If you want to do jsut one attempt, push it closer to O (so 1DBO) and/or I would also have you do more than one attempt. Using RepHresh and cetirizine makes it much, much more difficult for sperm to survive to reach an egg, so you need to start off with more sperm to begin with to make up for the greater amount you will lose in the process. We do not believe that timing sways. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

[twinkle]

The hormonal imbalance was diagnosed by the gyane dr at the hospital after i had a ultrasound and a MRI scan done to find the cause of my pain (which has now gone) and irregular bleeding (also stopped) and the exessive strange cm in the 1st half of my cycle, a little tmi maybe lol. The gyane dr at the hospital had onlt seen me from across her desk never ran any bloods or examined me on the 2 visits i had with her. Her only help was to say your body should sort its self out but if not them maybe its somthing you will have to live with.

I was unhappy with her so made a drs apointment for a second opinion/help with the imbalance. My gp said well your 37 and have 5 happy healthy children do you think maybe you should count your blessings. I had tears stingging my eyes but managed to hold it together and eplaine how the loss of the twins had made us realise how much we did infact want to expand our family. Her fix for me was well i think you should go on the pill for at least 3 months and come back and see me after then. She did mention taking progersterone but i think i will have to wait til the 3 months is up before she will even consider it.

Thank you so much for all your advice i will leave the rephresh out this month

folic acid - all cycle
baby asprin - 3x a week all cycle
vitex - af-o
cetirizine hydochloride - before o when i have more cm
b6 - 50mg all cycle
rlt instead of peppermint tea

The more i read and follow the more i belive timming isnt such a big factor but its just one of those things i worry about so maybe i will do a shorter cut off

[twinkle]

I also think the based the imbalance on the fact my cycles were always 27-28 days and now they are anything from a 22 day cycle. Would have liked a blood test to confirm and also to clarify what was out of balance

[atomic sagebrush]

So they never gave you any kind of official diagnosis?? Is your cycle short only in the last half of the cycle or is it just short overall?? It's ok for your cycle to get shorter as you age, that happens to many people but you do need at least 10-12 days AFTER ovulation to help a baby implant and better still, 12-14.

Going on the pill for 3 cycles may help, and also will sway pink for you. Personally i would be a little reluctant to do that without having had any kind of blood test or official diagnosis because the Pill can make some hormonal imbalances worse.

Did you read the timing link I posted in the above answer? It may help you let go of timing a little bit. At 37, you simply don't have the luxury of time to play around with cutoffs. You need to get pg as soon as you can.

[twinkle]

At the moment my Lp is about 9-10 days. I have been thinking about it all weekend and i have decided i am going to go back to the drs again this week and ask for bloods to be done and ask for progesterone, whats the worsed she can do...... say no. I hope with me asking nicely and taking im my data from may last few cycles she might be a little more helpful. I have read your timing link thank you, im considering just not worrying about timing too much my want for a heathy baby kind of is out waying the desire for pink but i know if/when i get a bfp i will be praying the whole time for pink and hoping that i didnt miss out because of it, its hard to know whats for the best. Thanks again atomic your always so helpful

[rainbowflower]

good luck Twinkle - I went to the GP for similar reasons before Christmas and took my charts, etc. but got a bad response... so booked to see a different GP at the same practice and got the same response. Hope they take you seriously, but I have serious doubts about the quality of fertility knowledge by GPs in this country!

[twinkle]

I totaly agree with you and sadly i think im wating my time but ive got to try just to know that thats not a option. Also i sadly think the hospital gyne drs i saw were just as unhelpful she was of the opinon of well you have kids already so think yourself luck, which i do im very greatful for the children that i have been blessed with. I will post on here and let you know how i get on, my only saving thought is she did mention about progestone last time but i didnt press her as she had made me feel like crap and reduced me to tears but this time im going to be strong and be more asertive (sp)

fingers crossed only 24 hrs till my apointment

[rainbowflower]

aww I was reduced to tears by my doctors too.. they pretty much said they wouldn't do anything until I'd been TTC for a year and didn't even know what a luteal phase was.

crossing my fingers and toes (and legs, seeing as I'm in the 2ww) for you! let me know how you get on

[twinkle]

I have everything crossed for you rainbowflower thats apart from my legs!!!

Well i managed to get a earlier apointment and went into see the dr today, as predicted no help acording to her a short LP and short cycles just mean you get more chances and not aproblem and she would not give me progesterone as i was ttc

She was also very unimpressed with our choice of trying again and said well if you have another m/c i will refer you to the recurrant miscarrage clinic. Also went to great lengths to say just because i had 5 healthy children didnt mean the next one would be as i am getting older so are my eggs. Now i know im 37 and not as fertile as i maybe was at 20 but come on im not a dinosaur yet!!

Now im going with total PMA and going to prove the dr that i can and will have my rainbow baby and im looking forward to going to her to get booked in for my antinatal appointments and i WILL give her no chance to spoil MY dream to become a mum one more time

[twinkle]

right now to get things clear in my head again

Folic acid - 800mg allcycle
vitex - af- ovulation
b6 - 50mg all cycle
baby asprin - 75mg every other day or every third day??

timing mmmm im not to sure still what is the easiest/best
RePHesh im not to sure what to do with that either maybe a bit the day before bd?

[rainbowflower]

sorry just seen your reply!

firstly, thank you :)

secondly... I think doctors can be blunt like that sometimes. Think we're stupid and need to know the risks of these things... maybe some women do go in naively and not look at that sort of thing, but their words can be hurtful.

folic acid - you want mcg, not mg
vitex would probably be 800mg, is that what you meant?
B6 - great! I'm taking an increased amount after OV but not because I read it's a good idea, more because I read that increased doses can delay OV so I thought I'd take less before OV to delay OV less and more afterwards
I don't know about aspirin, I'm not taking it because I'm still BF

[twinkle]

yes sorry folic acid 800mcg
vitex im unsure of the mg it says 20 drops and tahrs what im taking
B6 - i thought that would lengthen my LP?? and the vitex may delay it?
I forgot to add the cetirizine hydrochlride im going to take that the mornings we plan to bd
oh my this is so confusing lol.

[atomic sagebrush]

right now to get things clear in my head again

Folic acid - 800mg allcycle
vitex - af- ovulation
b6 - 50mg all cycle
baby asprin - 75mg every other day or every third day??

timing mmmm im not to sure still what is the easiest/best
RePHesh im not to sure what to do with that either maybe a bit the day before bd?

First of all I'm so sorry you guys are having trouble with doctors. :( Twin pg are just more apt to be lost than singletons are and it may very well have had nothing at all to do with the state of your eggs. Many women have healthy pg in their late 30's and early 40's.

I would have you increase folic to 1200 or even 1600 jsut to be on the safe side.

Start the aspirin every third day and you can increase it if you want to, as long as you don't have any bleeding or bruising.

[atomic sagebrush]

yes sorry folic acid 800mcg
vitex im unsure of the mg it says 20 drops and tahrs what im taking
B6 - i thought that would lengthen my LP?? and the vitex may delay it?
I forgot to add the cetirizine hydrochlride im going to take that the mornings we plan to bd
oh my this is so confusing lol.

If the bottle of vitex says 20 drops, that's what you should stick to. They are all formatted a bit differently so best to go off the bottle.
B6 can lengthen LP but can sometimes delay O for people. Personally I think it's best to stick with one amount of B6 throughout the cycle. Your body can't take note of dosages of stuff and act accordingly and I think it gets "confused" by dramatically different levels of nutrients. It may not "like" having a higher dosage of B6 and then excrete a lot, then when you cut back on B6 suddenly, it takes awhile for your body to realize that so it keeps excreting a lot of the stuff but you're taking less, so it's almost worse than doing nothing at all. Plus, all the mechanisms that rely on the B6 get used to it being at a certain level and operate under the assumption that level will continue, so when the level suddenly increases or decreases, it can affect all sorts of things.

Please note - your body is "used" to getting varying levels of nutrients via foods, it's the high doses of vitamins that confuse it.

[twinkle]

Im really sorry for being a pain in the butt atomic but do you think suddenly taking the b6 and not gradually starting it was a bad idea? Im taking 50mg of it. The pack is a one a day bottle of 10mg tablets so taking more than the recomended dose on the bottle but had read on here i think that upto 100mg was safe. Also im dropping the aspirin all together as im spotting and crampy on it and it makes me feel uneasy about a pregnacy sticking if im having spotting. This is my tweeked sups

Vitex - 20 drops af to O
B6 - 50mg all cycle
folic acid - 1200 all cycle (as they are in 400 tabs i will take 3 now)
cetirizine hydrochlride - one tab a day in the lead up to o

Ive also decided to be really strict on the diet so i can stress less with timing which i still can decide what to do on. I dont want to regret things later on but DO want to be pregnant soon

[atomic sagebrush]

No, you CAN suddenly start taking vitamins, you just can't suddenly STOP them. Your body is good at getting rid of stuff that isn't supposed to be there, but the trouble is that it keeps ON getting rid of stuff not realizing that you're not taking it any more.

Everything else looks fine.

[twinkle]

Thank you so much atomic you are a life saver.

All the spotting seems to have stopped again now so not sure the aspirin will be any good for me really

[atomic sagebrush]

?? the aspirin is for acidity, not for thinning the blood. Thinning the blood has nothing to do with acidity, it's just a side effect.