Sorry for Repeat thread

[sofkay]

Atomic i have miscarried at 7 weeks +6 basically 8 weeks today.
Scan showed nothing.
At 6 weeks i got a pic and a heartbeat.

Why did it happen even after heartbeat? It cant have been choromozonal or could it still? Whats likely cause at 8 weeks?

Ive read they could have had down syndrom how can i stop myself producing more downs/chromo issue babies? Im 30 are my eggs are that bad?
What supplements can i take to stop this?

Is it true im now more fertile? Even with husband sperm issues? (low count which quadropled but low motility in second test).. he hasnt really taken supplements for 8 weeks either :( i got too confident and happy.

Im paranoid i produced a downs baby so will keep mis carrying again and again or that was my one and only chance and its gone.

[atomic sagebrush]

I answered most of this in your other thread but I'll reply to your other questions:

I can't tell you why your pregnancy didn't work out. Chromosomal abnormalities are the most common reason but there are many other reasons.

Yes, pregnancies end after a heartbeat. It's great to get a heartbeat but unfortunately sometimes pregnancies don't progress after that for a variety of reasons.

This doesn't mean your eggs are bad. Many of us have had a loss first then went on to have normal healthy pregnancies.

If there was any magical supplement that existed to prevent losses, I'd have you take them already. Many of the things that some people claim prevent losses do nothing, and many many more are harmful. PLEASE run everything by me before you take anything.

I would put hubby back on the supps. I answered about fertility in the other thread.

It's totally normal to have a lot of fears after a loss. We can't predict the future but nearly everyone who suffers a loss goes on to have a normal healthy pregnancy in the future. Please don't despair, the odds are that this will never happen again.

[sofkay]

Hi Atomic
Reading a lot about vitamin B3? For me, him as well?
I doubt a damaged sperm got to egg so i dont think it was him.
Should i up my COQ10? I was on 300mg should i double?

How soon will my body ovulate? My lining was 15.5mm ive heard thats good?

I am also wondering if instead of taking all my old vits i should take a pregnancy one now?

Any opinions be great, esp on B3

[atomic sagebrush]

If you would like to take a prenatal or multivitamin that will have all the B3 you need. DO NOT TAKE a higher than 100% dose of anything other than Vitamin D or folic acid (better yet folate)

I would not give a woman in your age group more than 300 coq10. It's not likely this was caused by poor egg quality caused by high blood sugar.

Again, I want to stress to you that while there are plenty of people out there willing to take your money to sell you supplements, the truth is they really don't do much. Most people (with the exception of famine victims and those who have severe eating disorders for decades, and of course the exception of those who have drank alcohol or smoked or whatever) have plenty of nutrition and losses are just really bad luck that strike out of the blue like lightning. So my concern is that you please do not go out and take a bunch of supplements. I have seen nothing but bad things come out from taking gobs of supplements. Not only herbs, but nutrients taken at too high a dose can make you ill and can affect a pregnancy (and may cut your chances of getting pregnant dramatically as well)

Yes, damaged sperm can get to eggs. Sperm can have damage to their DNA that is invisible and they can still swim just fine even when that is the case. We know because of genetic testing that many people have had done on losses that there can indeed be things wrong with sperm that cause miscarriages.

Can you go over the vitamins you were taking?? Sorry I know you've done that for me in the past but just want to be sure I have the most up to date list. Both prior to conception and during your pregnancy.

I can't tell you when you will ovulate. Your lining alone doesn't tell us that. You may need to have a period before conceiving, has your doc given you guidance on that??

[sofkay]

Hi for when i conceived i was taking:
Myo Inositol, CoQ10 300mg, 100% Vit C, D3, Zinc, Omega 3, B12 + Folic acid.
When found out pregnant switched to a pregnancy vitamin + Omega 3: https://groceries.asda.com/product/womens-health-pregnancy/asda-women-pregnancy-multivitamins-omega-3-tablets-capsules/910001559437
Wondering if i should take vitamin link above, Myo Inositol and CoQ10 when i try & conceive again

[atomic sagebrush]

How did you come off the myoinositol?

did you switch suddenly or wean off all those and go onto the pregnancy vitamin?

How much Omega 3 were you taking?? Did you continue this on into pregnancy or stop it?

I want you to just take the same thing starting now. I don't want you to switch from one thing to another this next time.

That ASDA vitamin is fine. I DO think you may want to get a separate folate and take a total of 1200 mcg (so the amount in the ASDA vitamin, and then two more of 400 mcg - take morning, noon, night through the entire first trimester of pregnancy and then gradually wean off by spacing doses further and further out till down to one per week, then drop them.

[sofkay]

Myo i only took AF - O to be honest.
Omega 3 amount i cant remember but i kept it up thru.pregnancy as well.

I am considering this time doing Asda pregnancy vitamin thru entire conceive time so no switch, unless its awful for conception? It comes with a omega 3 tab as well
Add myo Af-O
CoQ10 300mg all the time till Plus test
I am up for doing more folic acid? If thats wot u mean?

[atomic sagebrush]

I would have you do Myo daily AF-O (500 or 1000 mg) and then O-AF or BFP take every other day or halve the dose. I don't think it's healthy for you to go off and on it like that. Then at BFP please wean off gradually.

Too much Omega 3 can be bad. How much comes with the ASDA?

The ASDA is fine to start now and continue thru pregnancy.

Yes more folic acid or better yet folate. Take this extra all thru the entire first trimester then gradually wean off by spacing doses till down to the amount in a prenatal. Don't stop folate/FA suddenly and don't take the higher amount all thru pregnancy.

[sofkay]

Asda fish oil 477mg and DHA 200mg
I could take a different pregnancy supplement but it doesnt come with omega 3 and supplement omega 3 which has 1000mg omega 3 oil 180mg EPA and 120mg DHA
Reason i like idea of pregnancy supplement is it has B3, Selenium added as well. It would be a more all in one supplement.
Myo- i could do 2 spoons AF-O and 1 spoon O-next af?

Can i ask why you are more fertile after a miscarriage? How?

[atomic sagebrush]

Virtually all prenatal supplements (or in fact any supplements) have B3. It is also called "niacin" so it may be listed under that name.

I find 1000 mg to be too high so please take that every other day. Fish oil can be a strong blood thinner and having your blood be too thin is just as risky for a pregnancy (and possibly more so for some of us) as having thicker blood.

Fine to do 2 spoons of myo AF-O and then 1 O-AF. Do wean off it gradually though at BFP, don't just drop it suddenly even at the 1 spoonful

I don't personally think you are always or even usually more fertile after a miscarriage (like I said in the other thread, I am skeptical of that claim as I've not observed it to be true) I think that is most likely a comforting fiction/twisting of the facts doctors tell people so they don't despair after a loss. It is based on the idea that women who DON'T get pregnant quickly after a loss sometimes have trouble conceiving, but this doesn't mean that then the women who do get pregnant quickly are somehow more fertile than normal. There has been very little study done about that. It ~may~ be that some people hyperovulate due to still having some hormones in their system, or that possibly there might be a higher quality egg, but at the same time, many people will not have a regular cycle and it may be harder for sperm to meet egg as well (due to poorer quality EWCM). We just don't know because unfortunately doctors seem to prefer just saying the same old things they've always said rather than ever doing any new investigations into things like this. :/

Has your doctor given you the clearance to try with the first cycle or does s/he want you to wait?

[sofkay]

Virtually all prenatal supplements (or in fact any supplements) have B3. It is also called "niacin" so it may be listed under that name.

I find 1000 mg to be too high so please take that every other day. Fish oil can be a strong blood thinner and having your blood be too thin is just as risky for a pregnancy (and possibly more so for some of us) as having thicker blood.

Fine to do 2 spoons of myo AF-O and then 1 O-AF. Do wean off it gradually though at BFP, don't just drop it suddenly even at the 1 spoonful

I don't personally think you are always or even usually more fertile after a miscarriage (like I said in the other thread, I am skeptical of that claim as I've not observed it to be true) I think that is most likely a comforting fiction/twisting of the facts doctors tell people so they don't despair after a loss. It is based on the idea that women who DON'T get pregnant quickly after a loss sometimes have trouble conceiving, but this doesn't mean that then the women who do get pregnant quickly are somehow more fertile than normal. There has been very little study done about that. It ~may~ be that some people hyperovulate due to still having some hormones in their system, or that possibly there might be a higher quality egg, but at the same time, many people will not have a regular cycle and it may be harder for sperm to meet egg as well (due to poorer quality EWCM). We just don't know because unfortunately doctors seem to prefer just saying the same old things they've always said rather than ever doing any new investigations into things like this. :/

Has your doctor given you the clearance to try with the first cycle or does s/he want you to wait?


Ill stick with Asda omega 3 basically 477 fish oil 200 dha? Instead of 1000mg fish oil 180/120 dha/epa???? Opinions?

Also, drs havent said much as to be really blunt i had an attempt on my life monday morning and so its all been about me. Everytime i laugh (like this afternoon) i feel guilt such imense guilt.

[sofkay]

Hi atomic to add is there anything at all i can add to help my egg quality? Anything?
Im reading about DHEA or melatonin as a supplement??
Im very dupious of continuing coq10 @ 300mg considering my egg was clearly a dud. It feels like i need to put more effort in.. i was taking 2 tbspoons myo as well so im really not sure what to do!
To add in my miscarriage report at 7+6 my lining was 15.1mm thick and E something (googled and means progesterone producer) was on left.
I keep passing big lumps of clots now, i have to pull it out. I know its not baby as scan sunday they couldnt see anything at all. It was thick, stick and like how id imagine muscle to feel and look if you sliced it off

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh I'm so sorry to hear that - what a terrible couple weeks for you! :heart: :heart: :heart:

I prefer the lower dose fish oil daily OR the 1000 every other day.

[atomic sagebrush]

sofkay, I promise, there is nothing that we can take to fix egg quality really. I know people say there is, but they are just trying to placate people and/or sell vitamins. Some of these supplements ~may~ help slightly in an IVF cycle where a woman is trying to make 30 eggs at once. But for the average person trying for a natural conception they just don't do anything and most of them carry risks and side effects that are in many if not practically all cases, worse than nothing.

If there was any magic pill I could give you guys to prevent losses we would all already be taking it (as would the millions of women who have infertility problems). People take all these supplements and many more and have losses still, unfortunately.

It is NOT clear that this was a problem with your egg quality. As I mentioned this could be a problem with egg, sperm, or the way they combined, but it could also have been a problem where the baby implanted in a poor spot (like on the cervix, I had a miscarriage due to that reason) or immune issues or thyroid issues or a low grade infection or a host of other things. We just can't know, and even if if it was a bum egg, that doesn't mean that the vast majority of other eggs you have are still perfectly good (and in fact given your age they almost certainly ARE!) Tons and tons and tons of women have had losses with their first pregnancy and gone on to have normal pregnancies, doing nothing any different, not taking any of these things.

PLEASE do not take DHEA. Given your age there is practically ZERO chance you are low in DHEA (that only happens after 40 and in many cases not even then) and taking it when you don't need to take it will give you a kind of PCOS since it raises your testosterone levels. This in turn raises blood sugar and high testosterone and high blood sugar is very harmful for your eggs. So in trying to fix a problem that probably isn't even there (assuming you have egg quality problems when you most likely don't) you would actually create what you fear - reducing your egg quality in a misguided attempt to fix it.

PLEASE do not take melatonin. While melatonin was shown in a couple studies to possibly help with egg quality IN IVF ROUNDS, melatonin has been proven to cause developmental delays when the melatonin supplements are used during pregnancy. And since melatonin is something the body makes naturally and uses during early pregnancy, stopping it suddenly may actually TRIGGER a miscarriage (because your body is used to high levels and then those levels drop sharply). The ONLY people who can take melatonin are people doing IVF where they will freeze their eggs/embryos and not be pregnant in the same month their eggs are retrieved. This is because they can gradually wean off melatonin because they're not pregnant. If you are going to be pregnant in the same month you've taken melatonin it is a terrible idea to take it at all, because you can't drop it suddenly (could trigger miscarriage) and you can't wean off it either because you'll be taking it during pregnancy and may harm your baby's development! And none of us know how long those effects last so even if you weaned off quickly, the melatonin may stay in your body for some time after and could harm the baby.

And again, at your age it's very unlikely you need it at all anyway. You create a real problem trying to fix a problem that very likely isn't real.

The best thing you could do is eat a lower carb, higher protein, higher healthy fat (but not SUPER low carb) diet like South Beach or Perfect Health Diet. Even this is in no way a magic bullet, but it may help a little (and is better proven than any supplement.)

You can continue coq10 and myoinositol. They are not a magic bullet that prevents any problem in a pregnancy. They ~may~ help a little, but there are no supplements in existence that can prevent all issues with a pregnancy. It just isn't how it works. I wish it was, but it just isn't. I am not at all sold on either one if you prefer to drop them. I don't think they caused your loss, and nor do I think they prevent most, if any losses either.

It's normal to have large clots but please keep an eye on it, if they are huge like lemon sized, you have a temp, any strange vaginal discharge (you will know it when you see it, it will be the wrong color and smell really bad) or the bleeding shifts into high gear go back in to the doctor (even the ER) and get it checked.