Progesterone or creamy cervical mucus higher with girls or boys a few days past ovulation

[grace36]

I am curious if any moms that have had girls noticed more creamy cervical mucus after ovulation


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[grace36]

Also has anyone noticed if higher progesterone levels early on are more likely with girls than boys?


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[atomic sagebrush]

I am curious if any moms that have had girls noticed more creamy cervical mucus after ovulation


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We have found no reliable pattern for EWCM, creamy CM, etc in terms of gender.

[atomic sagebrush]

Also has anyone noticed if higher progesterone levels early on are more likely with girls than boys?


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No, that hasn't been the case for us at all with people pregnant with both genders needing progesterone support at times and other times high prog with either gender. This notion, while I know it's out there, has not proven true at all over the past 10 years for us.

[grace36]

Thank you atomic! I couldn’t remember if there had been a difference between my son and daughter. I so appreciate you getting back to me [emoji4]


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[atomic sagebrush]

Happy to help!

[grace36]

Atomic, I’m hoping to get some guidance. My husband and I have been trying for a girl using the shettles method on and off for a little over a year now. I know that sounds ridiculous. Only reason I have been kind of stuck on this theory is because my daughter was conceived with trying 4 days before I ovulated due to having to travel for work and my son was conceived from trying one time when I got my positive surge. So I guess he could have gone either way regarding that theory.

We did get pregnant a few months ago by accident. I had had the flu and wanted to hold off for that cycle. The only time we had sex my husband pulled out. I unfortunately had a miscarriage and it took a long time for my HCG numbers to come down. Now my doctor would like to put me on Femara because my progesterone has been low and she doesn’t think I have had a very strong ovulation since she had been monitoring me and would like to speed things along since I’m 37.

I have to let go of this Shettles timing because I think it has really kept us from getting pregnant. So happy to see successful sways here having nothing to do with timing. Wish I had found you guys a long time ago. My question is that it looks like the best results with the LE diet require you to be on it for at least 12 weeks. I really don’t have 12 weeks. My husband is almost over having a third at this point and I am really ready to be pregnant after all of this as well. But of course after all this time I would still LOVE to have a girl.

I exercise 4-5 times a week, may need to cut back on weights and stick more to cardio. Right now I have a balance between the two. Mostly do Orange theory. I have a BMI of 20.33. I do eat chicken most days for lunch and dinner and sometimes eggs for breakfast so I’m guessing I would need to majorly cut back on protein to get to 40-50 grams of protein a day but I’m used to watching my calories. What does 40-50 grams of protein look like? I eat a lot of fruit mostly berries and some dairy. I’m also a regular coffee drinker and love a margarita or two on the weekend. So at least I have that in my side:)

Any tips on how to get on the diet quickly and any chance it will even help? My period is due in three days so I will be starting the Femara very soon. I would be grateful for any guidance[emoji1317]


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[atomic sagebrush]

How did you determine ovulation when you got pregnant with your daughter?

I fully agree that Shettles prevents conception (plus it doesn't work). I know it's hard to let go of, but most of us on here, myself very much included, have numerous timing opposites and Shettles is as debunked by science as much as it's possible for something to BE debunked. YOu probably saw this already but here's the full case against Shettles. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

My suggestion would be for you to just start LE Diet (or even just go vegetarian) and continue trying. You're experiencing one of the main drawbacks to those sway tactics tht really inhibit chances of conception - husbands start to rebel. You CANNOT take any time off from trying for any reason because if your husband pulls the plug, then you have no chance.

We have had good results with Femara and I'd be very happy to be put onto it! Definitely take that.

:agree: continue exercise with more focus on cardio

40-50 g would vary depending on what you're eating. I would probably just go vegetarian rather than try to work out LE Diet by this point. OR you could ddo it at the higher levels (50-60 g protein) so as not to be such a huge shock.

[grace36]

Thank you for your reply! I appreciate all of your advice so much! Started my period today and will start Femara on day 3. My doctor also has me scheduled for an HSG test where they flush my tubes and get an X-ray. Not crazy about doing that but she really feels it will be therapeutic and help our odds. Not sure if that swayed either way but I think I should probably do it.

I feel like if I went vegetarian I might end up gaining weight. I’m thinking I will just try to limit my protein/chicken/eggs intake. I was going to try and use my fitness pal to figure out how many grams of protein I am having daily? Is there anything else to the LE diet other than low calories and low protein? Any sample meal ideas that have been used on the past? And what number of calories would be best to aim for each day?

As far a supplements go... I noticed you recommend fiber. Should I take fiber as a supplement? I have been taking calcium with vitamin d. Magnesium and small amount of cranberry. I did that in the past with my daughter but I also noticed you don’t recommend that but was hoping to keep that since I’m finally letting go of timing. Wanted to get your opinion though. And wanted to know what is the correct dose of folic acid since I am not taking prenatals?

To answer your question...As far as determining ovulation. I use the clear blue ovulation kits and also watch for cervical mucus and cramping and it seems I tend to ovulate the day after I receive my first positive surge about 24-36 hours later.

Thank you so much Atomic!









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[atomic sagebrush]

WE don't believe the HSG sways and it may help boost chances of conceiving.

My Fitness Pal is not a good way to track protein intake because it counts the small amounts of protein and fat in fruits and vegetables. We don't track those (and in fact track nothing in low carb veg, they're free and unlimited.)

Another trick I've used at times to help people who felt they couldn't manage the tracking was "the law of halves". Simply eat normally but whenever you go to eat protein, eat half of what you'd normally eat It is not my favorite approach because people end up cutting back too far sometimes (so if they were eating 60 g protein, and started halfing that, they'd end up at 30 g which is below my minimum cutoff for protein.)

no, the Low Everything Diet is NOT "low cal and low protein." LE Diet is the lower normal range of healthy protein, fat, cal intake for a prepregnancy diet as recommended by the World Health Organization incorporating the advice of reproductive endocrinologists for healthy weight loss prior to doing IVF rounds. So the minimums are actually just as important, if not more so, as the maximums are, because LE is meant to be a safe and healthy diet to eat before conceiving. You can't just cut back on stuff (without being very, very careful not to cut back too far.)

LE Diet is:

1500-1800 cals for most (not counting cals in low carb veg), a small minority (1-3%) drop to 1200-1500 cals and a larger minority (20-30%) go up to 1800-2000 cals or even beyond to keep weight loss under control. Our BMI cutoff is 21.5 means you stop losing and try to hold steady where you're at (and if a lb. or two comes off on accident it's not the end of the world) and 18.5 is the absolute cutoff, don't go beyond that, do whatever it takes to keep weight on. So you'd adjust your cal intake to prevent your weight from dropping below those levels.

40-50 g protein for most (not counting pro in fruit and veg) and anyone with PCOS, more than 30 lbs to lose (especially more than 50 lbs) insulin resistance, egg quality issues, or who is over 40 goes to 50-60 g

30-60 g fat (not counting fat in fruit and veg) and anyone with PCOS, etc (as outlined above) goes up to 50-60 g

the increase to 50-60 g protein and fat while keeping calories constant in effect cuts carbs for that group of people who needs lower carbs.

The bulk of your protein and fat intake should come from vegetable sources rather than animal sources (so use oil instead of butter, have more nuts/grains/legumes rather than meat)

And don't forget, no highly fortified foods like breakfast cereal, power bars, meal replacer shakes.

Then, anyone with PCOS, etc, eats whole grains rather than white (but we've had such good results with whole grains you can still have them even if you aren't in that category) and full fat dairy instead of skim (again, we've had good results with full fat dairy within limits, so you don't necessarily need to have only or mostly skim dairy.)

Those with PCOS, etc, avoid sugar but those without it can have sugar

Some people like to have 2-3 12-16 oz servings of artificial sweetener a day. That is the amount proven safe before pregnancy by the FDA. I don't want you guys having any more than that.

RE your supplements, personally I got boys on cal-mag and gave it up to finally get my girl, but if you believe in them as long as you find cal-mag WITHOUT that added vitamin D (even if this means you have to take Tums for calcium and magnesium pills separately) it's all good.

Cranberry has not worked for us and had a host of risks and side effects that were very concerning. I've never recommended it (because I saw how much harm it caused when I was back on Ingender) but as long as you don't take it beyond ovulation it's your call to make.

I like anyone doing any type of sway diet (even if it's not LE) to be on 1200-1600 micrograms (mcg) of folic acid or folate. This is because we are eating less nutrients and folate/FA is the only nutrient ever proven to prevent birth defects when taken before conception. I like you to start this higher dose right away, continue taking it till the end of the first trimester, and then gradually wean off by spacing doses further and further out till you're down to the amount in your prenatal (which should be started immediately upon getting your BFP.)

[grace36]

Thank you so much! This is very helpful! I am starting Femara for the first time today and having the HSG done later this week. My diet is pretty consistent during the week. On the weekends breakfast and lunch are similar but sometimes dinner is out and about. Wanted to see if you see if anything that jumps out to you from my regular diet that I should cut back on?

Breakfast: English muffin with light cream cheese and dab of strawberry jam comes about 183 calories or I have a half of English muffin and one scrambled egg
With cold brew coffee low calorie creamer and equal

Lunch: 1/3 of a cup of rotisserie chicken on low calorie bread with a dab of mayo and sprinkle of cheese. With some blackberries and cup of popcorn or serving of popcorner chips (pop corn chips) and a Diet Coke

Cold brew coffee and with equal and light creamer usually with a snack which I should probably do away with. Sometimes a smoothie or yogurt or fruit

Dinner: grilled chicken rice and veggie or chicken and salad or possibly chicken tacos.

Whole fruit popsicle or small serving of low calorie ice cream in the evening

I have noticed you mentioned fiber and wanted to see how you incorporate that in. Is it through supplements? My husband and I as I mentioned before have been taking calcium/magnesium. I found one without vitamin D:) Also one serving size of cranberry and folic acid. I was only taking 800 mcg of the folic acid so I am going to add one more to bring me to 1600. Is there any difference between the folic acid or folate that is important to know?

Also I really feel I need to eat breakfast. Would it be best to push it back to later in the morning or early afternoon?

Thank you so much for your advice!! [emoji1317][emoji1317][emoji1317]


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[atomic sagebrush]

Can you please bump this for me?? Sorry I didn't realize it was as long as it is and I need to get dinner ready! Thank you!

[grace36]

Bump:) Is this how you bump a post?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes perfect thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

Do you have totals for the day?? I want to be sure you're getting enough protein, fat, and cals. The types of foods all seem great (although chicken twice may be quite a bit of protein, depending on serving size)

Most people do take fiber supplements. Let me reread your post before I sound off on that.

Folate is well tolerated by everyone. A minority of people have an inability to metabolize folic acid and it can cause issues for them with pregnancies (possibly miscarriage, for example). Folate is more expensive and harder to find, but it's safer for everyone to take.

Fine to push your first meal back a few hours. That's what most of us do (myself included). Both 2 and 3 meals are equally acceptable on LE Diet, do whatever works for you. I ate at 10-11 am (I get up early) then around 4-5 and had a bedtime snack since I can't sleep on an empty stomach. But you should time the meals however will work, even if it means eating breakfast. Skipping breakfast is no magic bullet, fine to eat in the morning if need be, it's just one little thing that may help a bit.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok. Reread your information. Since your progesterone is low and your BMI is below my minimum cutoff I DO NOT want you to take fiber. Please no fiber for you.

[atomic sagebrush]

So the diet you have listed above is not what you think your LE Diet should look like, but is your regular diet?

How much fat do you estimate you're eating a day??

I think you'd be better off having full fat dairy only from here on in. I am wondering if your low progesterone is due to inadequate intake of saturated fat.

[grace36]

Thank you so much Atomic! I found folate at a local vitamin shop. Should I do the same dose as the folic acid I was taking? They come in 400, 800, and 1000 mcg.

The foods I listed are basically my diet during the week days. The weekends we eat out a bit more. I can figure out my totals. I used to have two eggs but cut back to one or just the English muffin by itself. The chicken I do a 1/3 of a cup for lunch which is 12 grams of protein, and dinner is usually 1 serving (one small/medium size thin cut chicken breast (around 18-20 grams of protein I believe) along with a carb and veggies. I also eat a lot of berries-blackberries and strawberries. Not sure it that is ok. Do you think I might have a decent LE diet going already? I will ovulating some time next week so it’s almost time. Wasn’t sure I had the diet correct but I have started Femara for the first time and will try the one attempt when I trigger.

Interesting to hear that full fat dairy might help. I love dairy but I usually do 2 percent or skim milk and cheese and low calorie yogurt. I’m guessing when you say full fat that be whole milk? And I will hold off on the fiber if you think it is best. Hope I did my BMI correct. I’m 5’6 and weight ranges from 125-127.




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[atomic sagebrush]

I like you guys to take 1200-1600 mcg folate. If you break that into smaller doses it's better utilized by the body. (so 400 3x a day, 800 morning and night.) The 1000 is a high dose so obviously you'd only take that once.

All foods - including berries, are fine in LE Diet limits. Yes, that diet is quite LE friendly, if anything may be too restrictive but we'll know that when you get the totals added up.

Yes full fat dairy is whole milk or cream (so instead of having skim milk in coffee, for instance, you'd have whole, half and half, or cream) and full fat yogurt. I want you to skip fiber. According to the BMI calculator you're 20.2 BMI which is definitely below my cutoff point, so no weight loss.

[grace36]

Thank you so much Atomic! I am so happy to hear that my diet already has LE friendly foods in it! Still trying to figure out my dinner calories so I can have a total amount of calories and protein. Also so helpful to know about the folate vs the folic acid. Is there any way to know if we are not metabolizing folic acid properly?

I just had my HSG done yesterday and that went well. My husband also had a semen analysis and his numbers came back great. I am currently on day 6 of my cycle and will be going in on day ten for an ultrasound to get a better idea of how I’m responding to the Femara. Hoping for one dominant follicle. If we have two we plan to hold off this cycle.

I wanted to ask you what you think would be best to do as far as timing and frequency go. My doctor will have me do a trigger shot once my follicle measures 20. Since my husband had good numbers for his sperm count the doctor said we don’t need to worry about trying every other day or every day, she said er can do whatever we want. I thought we could start trying once a day with pulling out until I get the ok to do my trigger shot and then do our one attempt. I usually surge on my own around day 12 or 13 and today is day 6. What do you think would be best?



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[atomic sagebrush]

Most people who don't metabolize it properly will have repeat losses. But many people in that category have a couple normal pregnancies and then start having issues. When in doubt, use folate. Folate used to be quite expensive and hard to find so keeping folic acid as an option made more sense, but nowadays folate is cheaper and widely available so anyone who wants to make the switch, I'm all for it.

Re number of dominant follicles, I hate to see people skip months on Femara for only 2 dominant follicles. If you're hyperovulating, sure, but many people release two eggs every month and only end up with a singleton. Two eggs does not always or even usually equal twins, and since you can only be on Femara a short time, with your doctor's blessing I'd have an attempt. Your call, but it may be you always release 2 eggs on Femara.

Do be aware since you're on Femara you cannot expect to surge/ovulate on the same day you normally do. This doesn't matter since you're having scans and trigger shot but just so you know.

For the first month, if you want to have your husband do daily release with pullout and one attempt at trigger that's fine. In future months I'd consider doing regular release with one attempt at trigger next month and then in Month 3 if necessary, we'll start adding attempts. On Femara we have to be proactive about adding attempts as we go.

[grace36]

Thank you Atomic! So grateful for your help!

I’m glad you mentioned that ovulation and surge may be different on Femara. Have you noticed it has been earlier or delayed for the majority or random? Today was my first day (day 7) of using advanced clear blue kit and clear blue monitor. I already noticed a second blue line showing a lot more than it usually would this early on with the kit.

We haven’t had sex since before my period so we need to get started tonight with the pulling out. I don’t want to abstain because we are both over 35. Bummed that it seems like it might be coming sooner than usual. My husband seemed to have a high sperm count or above average so I was hoping to get some try’s in before hand. I am going to go in tomorrow for a scan just to see what’s going on if the kit continues to get darker. Is there a certain amount of try’s with pulling out that may help decrease sperm count a bit or does it not make a big difference? Looks like we might only get one or two try’s in before our 1 attempt.

Also I didn’t quite understand your suggestion for next month? I wasn’t sure what the difference is between daily release with pull out and one attempt at trigger and regular release with one attempt at trigger.

And lastly would you have the one attempt right before you trigger? And is there anything else that you would recommend like a warm bath or shower before? Hopping up right after attempt? Shallow penetration? Thank you so much!





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[atomic sagebrush]

More likely delayed because it's not possible to ovulate within 5 days of your last dose (well, very distantly, but I can count on one hand in 10 years the number of people who it's happened to and at least 2 of them messed up on their dose and missed a day)

You're testing with OPK and you just took Femara? Put all worries that O is nigh out of your head. The Femara for 3 days can make false positives on OPK (so that dark line is almost certainly from that.) It's all but impossible to O the day after you stopped the Femara provided you took it every day you were meant to.

We have found 7-10 days to reduce sperm count reliably but many guys are depleted sooner.

Daily release will deplete sperm numbers. Regular release every 2-4 days will not deplete sperm numbers. So the first "strictest" month you're coming in with depleted sperm numbers and one attempt. Second monty, you're coming in with normal sperm numbers and one attempt. Just a gradual reduction in the strictness of the sway to boost odds of conception.

I would have the attempt night of trigger shot. Whenever it's convenient.

A lot of people choose to do hot bath/hot shower but I've never seen any reliable evidence they work and they do cut odds of conception. J and D, on the other hand, does also reduce odds of conception but did seem to add a little in our results, so if you MUST I'd give J and D a try after 5 minutes this month, then gradually extend it over time till you're laying down the full 30 minutes or more by the last month of Femara.

[grace36]

Thank you Atomic. I appreciate your guidance. I went in yesterday on day 10 just to see if I had one or more follicles. I already had a 22 on my left and a 14 and 12 on my right so the doctor advised me to have sex yesterday and trigger. I was concerned with the 14 and 12 ml follicles but she said I didn’t have anything g to worry about, that they were small enough.

So we tried before I picked the kids up from school around 1 and triggered in the evening around 9. Debating if we should get one more attempt in tonight. I have triggered in the past without Femara and my left side seemed to ovulate earlier than the 36 hour mark. Any thoughts? I would guess that I would ovulate anywhere from this evening to tomorrow morning. Thank you so much!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes those would never be ovulated.

If you want a better chance of pink, stick with one attempt. Better chance of conception, have another attempt.

[grace36]

Thank you Atomic! I’m happy to hear you think the other two are too small to ovulate as well. I was a bit nervous about it.

Do you think that we had a decent one time attempt even though it was before the trigger? Attempt in the afternoon and triggered in the evening 8 hours later? We had tried the night before but we pulled out.


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[atomic sagebrush]

It's definitely well within the realm of possible to conceive with an attempt then! I can't give you a guarantee of course, but a lot of people would be quite pleased with that timing. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and there's no way those smaller follicles are going to end in conception! The other one is way too far ahead.

[grace36]

Atomic you made me feel much better[emoji1317] Thank you! I felt some strong ovulation pains this afternoon. A little later than I would have expected but grateful to feel like it has hopefully been a good ovulation. Hopefully the Femara will help with my progesterone as well. I also took your advice with having full fat dairy instead of the low calorie. I will test for that next week. Thank you again! I will keep you posted!


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[atomic sagebrush]

You can have O pains before, during, and after ovulation (I know it's hard to believe, but it's true!) so it doesn't pin it down as much as we'd like, but the trigger shot will ensure O occurred! Good luck!

[grace36]

Thank you Atomic!

I am hoping that the Femara will help my progesterone levels this time but I am 4 days past ovulation today and have not noticed an increase in cervical mucus. Since ovulation. Does cervical mucus correlate to progesterone levels?


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[atomic sagebrush]

No, you would see your cervical mucus dry up after ovulation. Progesterone has nothing to do with cervical mucus and in fact causes it to dry up and become very sticky, if there at all.. Estrogen causes cervical mucus and that's why most people see EWCM go away after ovulation. Sometimes you'll see a surge of EWCM about 7 days after ovulation; this is because your body releases a surge of estrogen at that point to help maintain the lining long enough for a new pregnancy to send a signal to the corpus luteum (the hole your egg comes out of after ovulation) to continue making progesterone and sustain the pregnancy.

[grace36]

Hi Atomic! Looking for some last minute advice. I am being monitored on Femara again this month. Went in today and have a 24 mm follicle on my right and a 17 mm on my left. We had sex last night but pulled out because we wanted to make sure I didn’t have multiple follicles. After my appointment we had our one attempt early this afternoon. I am going to trigger now just a few hours later. My doctor knows that I have some anxiety over trying on top of ovulation so her recommendation was to have lots of sex today. Would you have one more attempt today? My only concern is that our pull out last night was too close to this mornings one attempt. Probably only about 12 hours between. Will that be a good enough attempt? My husband has a good sperm count. And do you think that 17 mm follicle could ovulate as well? Thank you so much!


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[atomic sagebrush]

It's only distantly possible the 17 mm could catch up.

THe pullout is not an attempt. That doesn't count. So far you've had only one attempt.

Whether or not to add an attempt is at your discretion. For best chance of pink you'd stick with the one you had. For a better chance of conception, add an attempt, but only one more. Don't have more than one more round of intercourse.

Good luck and pink dust headed your way!

[grace36]

Thank you so much Atomic! Grateful to hear back from you. My other concern was that my one attempt was too close to the pull out the night before. Do you think 12 hours is enough time to regenerate quality/quantity of sperm for a good attempt? And if we had another attempt would you have it tonight or tomorrow? I triggered around 4:30 this evening. Thank you again for all your help!!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Pullout does not count as an attempt. And having a release one day and then another the next doesn't deplete sperm numbers. It takes many days of release in a row or two releases IMMEDIATELY (within 1-3 hours, up to 6 at the longest) to lower sperm count. So that was never in play anyway. He had a good size batch by the next day. Men are talented that way LOL.

I'm too late to reply to your other question, but you'd have it as soon as possible after triggering to be sure you beat the egg. The time between attempts doesn't matter really when doing that second attempt for the sway, though. So if you haven't had an attempt please do.

[grace36]

Thank you! We did not end up having another attempt. I’m glad to hear the one we had was possibly a good one considering it was close to the evening before. Since I triggered at 4:30 pm yesterday I’m expecting to ovulate around 4:30 this coming am which will be 36 hours. I think I will hold tight with our one attempt yesterday if you think it is a good one.


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes it was a viable attempt, and I"m fine with you guys sticking with the one attempt. Good luck and pink dust!

[grace36]

Thank you for all your advice Atomic! I just had my progesterone tested and it came back at 33 8 days past trigger shot. I was on Femara 7.5 mg. I’m a little concerned that my levels may be high. Have you seen levels that high from medicated cycles?


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[atomic sagebrush]

There's nothing wrong with that, I've often seen people around 35. Good luck!

[grace36]

Thank you Atomic. I was very hopeful but it doesn’t look like this is going to be my month. I think I need to move on with more attempts next month and save them for after I trigger. I didn’t have any cervical mucus before and I’m wondering if maybe that is why this month didn’t work out. I had a strong ovulation for the first time in a while. Do you have any tips? I’m really ready to get pregnant. Hopefully I will be able to take the Femara again next month.


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[atomic sagebrush]

What I would have you do is 2 attempts at the trigger. Or you could compromise and have one attempt after the trigger (in case we were too early this time) Totally up to you. I would try very hard to avoid 3 attempts as that was quite blue friendly.

Cervical mucus is not predictive of conception. We have people with lots of visible CM who don't get pregnant and then others have no CM and do (this actually happened to me, one time I conceived with NO visible CM despite checking 2-3 times a day, and did not even realize I'd ovulated!)

[grace36]

Thank you again Atomic! I wish things had gone as we planned but I had a really strange cycle this month that felt like it almost wasn’t going to happen.

This is my third month on Femara and the first two months I had a big follicle ready to trigger on day 10. This month I had 4 follicles growing at the same rate and very slowly. So we were not sure if we were going to be able to try but finally by day 14 I had two follicles close to 22 mm and two smaller ones around 14 and 16. (The multiple follicles stress me out quite a bit but I’m trying to get used to it. ) I have always been open with my doctor about how we were trying for a girl to complete our family and that I was trying to time things a bit and was hoping to have one attempt. She had been fine with it but this time she suggested if we really want to get pregnant that we should try after the trigger and two times or more would be best.

My husband is really ready to move forward and get pregnant and I usually feel like I am too but of course now that it’s all said and done I am rethinking everything and why I didn’t just stick with one attempt after the trigger. I surged on my own in the morning around 10 am. Which also threw things off for us. We ended up having our first attempt that afternoon and decided to give ourselves the best chance to conceive we went for one more attempt that evening. The doctor also wanted me to trigger even though I surged on my own. So I triggered that afternoon.

I’m guessing the Femara was already completely out of my system by the time I ovulated on day 15 since it has such a short half life. So not sure that will sway for me at all. And I would also guess that the two attempts would put me in the blue zone as well. If I am fortunate enough to get pregnant would I be more likely swaying blue with those aspects? Also curious how often have you seen two follicles leading to twins? Would be so grateful for your honest feedback.


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[atomic sagebrush]

I would have had you add an attempt at this point anyway. Two attempts has not been much worse than 1 attempt - I think it's 67% as opposed to 68% right now and I have you guys start off with one attempt and go to two after a couple months on Femara because over time the Femara has a cumulative effect and makes it harder to conceive anyway.

You are not understanding how Femara works. It's not something that is "in your system" and then "out of your system". It has a monthslong effect on your hormone levels in a pink friendly direction and this extends even beyond the month you've taken it, let alone later in that same month.

Two follicles can be twins but many times it isn't. We have had people who had FOUR follicles and were told to TTC by their docs who either did not get pregnant or got pregnant with just one. So two follicles is not even remotely a guarantee of twins!

[grace36]

Thank you so much for your response Atomic. I have been a mess over here concerned mostly about twins. I am trying my best to relax but the idea of twins is a bit overwhelming to me since we already have two children. Thank you also for making me feel better about the two attempts and for explaining how the Femara sways.

For a blue sway do you suggest three or more attempts? And in your experience how often do you see twins with Femara, trigger and times intercourse when there are more than one follicle?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, I recommend 3 or more attempts for blue because in our results we had far more boys conceived with 3 attempts than with 1 or even 2. We had almost 60% boys conceived with 3 attempts even with otherwise good sways.

"Femara with trigger and timed intercourse with more than one follicle" is such a small and specific group that I could not ever track such a thing. We haven't had that many Femara twins, though, and like I've said, with more than one follicle we have actually had far more singletons than multiples!!

[grace36]

Thank you so much Atomic[emoji4]


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[grace36]

Good morning Atomic! I’m waiting to get my progesterone checked this morning and I have been a nervous wreck over having more than one follicle. I wanted to ask you how many follicles you would count as a possibility to have ovulated after taking the trigger shot. I had two 21.5 mm on my right side along with a 14mm and a 15.6 mm on my left side. I was thinking the two 22mm were the dominants but the more reading I’ve done it seem some people trigger with smaller sizes like the other two I had and still have multiples. I have had some pain on my left side and now I’m really concerned. Would you consider me having 4 follicles or less?

If we are not pregnant this time I don’t think I will try again with more than one dominant follicle because it stresses me out too much. I’m 37 so I think she felt the likelihood of all these follicles having good eggs was small. Just wanted to get your thoughts. Super nervous if my progesterone levels come back high this afternoon. And wondering what we will do moving forward if I’m not pregnant. Feeling very sad.


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[atomic sagebrush]

You had 2 follicles that ovulated. Anything is possible (if the docs measured wrong, for example) but it's also just as possible that the doctors in those people you read about who had multiples, missed some other follicles that were further along. (I have had one set of triplets in a woman who was told by her doctor there was only one egg!) The most likely case scenario by far is that the two big follicles went, and the others were way too far behind to catch up. And once the bigger eggs were ovulated, the hole they came out of, the corpus luteum, makes hormones that prevent more eggs from being released.

The left sided pain does not mean you ovulated from that side. After ovulation your body still has to reabsorb those additional follicles and that can cause pain. Ovulation can actually relieve pain (like popping a ripe zit, LOL) and so it's very common to have worse O pain on a side that did not ovulate.

It is a mistake to not try in months with 2 follicles. Many many times we release 2 eggs and most of the time we only conceive a singleton. You will miss out on months you need to be trying with that approach. Yes, if they saw 4-5 fully developed then it might make sense to wait (although we've had some people who had tried a long time who were told by their docs to try even with 4-5 follicles, who did not get pregnant at all, or had singletons) but not with two. Most of the time 2 ovulations does not mean 2 babies and you can't afford to start skipping months for no reason.

A high progesterone level does not tell you how many eggs you released.

[grace36]

Atomic you always know just the right thing to say. I needed to hear that for sure. I wish I could give you a big hug. Thank you again for helping me to ease my nerves a bit. My progesterone came back at 22.6 so that means I have a chance this cycle. Thank you again. I really appreciate your words!


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[grace36]

Quick question for anyone who has taken Femara? Today is day 3 of my cycle and trying to decide if I am going to take Femara this month or go without. Do you know if starting past day 3 may help to stimulate just one dominant follicle? My doctor lowered my dose this month because last month I had 2-3 dominant follicles but I was wondering if maybe I should consider starting it day 4? At my doctors office they either start you on day 3 or 4. Any experience with doctors pushing back the start date for something like that? Trying to decide whether to take it this month or just go without so I don’t have to stress about too many follicles. Would be grateful for your advice Atomic.


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[atomic sagebrush]

I feel we see better rates of conception starting it CD 3.

The theory is that starting it later will make fewer follicles, but I have seen plenty of twins in CD 5-9 dose and plenty of singles in CD 3-7, and given that I also feel it's better rates of conception with CD 3-7 that's what I recommend.

STarting it CD 4 is also an acceptible option, but if you're trying to stick with the theory about the number of follicles I'd just wait the extra day and start it CD 5.

[grace36]

Thank you Atomic. When I posted it was already day 3 for me and I decided just to go ahead and start. Hoping for one healthy follicle this month instead of two so I can relax and try. Thank you for your input.


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[atomic sagebrush]

Most doctors will have you try with two follicles. Two follicles does not necessarily or even usually make two babies.

[grace36]

Atomic hoping you can help. It’s my 5th month on Femara and we decided we would try before I triggered and for the days following because we wanted to give ourselves the best chance to get pregnant this month. My lining was at 5 and the doctor added in estrogen patches the day before I triggered to help increase my lining. I go to get my progesterone checked tomorrow but already feel pretty discouraged because I haven’t noticed an increase in the lotion like cm that I have on months where my progesterone levels have been high it seems more thin and watery. Do you know if the estrogen patches can effect progestrone?


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[atomic sagebrush]

What can happen is that your body can basically use up its raw materials making estrogen after you've been on Femara (since you make a big burst of it all of at once)

But that having been said I think you're way overthinking this. We have not found that you can tell things like your hormone levels on the basis of observing your CM, particularly where progesterone is concerned. You can certainly tell when you're fertile, but not the amount of progesterone you're making.

[grace36]

Thank you Atomic. Unfortunately my progesterone wasn’t as high as the doctor likes to see when on Femara this month at 13.8. Looks like we are going to give IVF a chance moving forward. I’m turning 38 this year so praying this will work for us.


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[atomic sagebrush]

Good luck!! Have you considered donor eggs?? Might be something to read up on even if you decide to go a different way. :)

[grace36]

Thank you Atomic. I don’t think we will do donor eggs? Do you think chances with IVF for a 38 year old are pretty slim? Maybe we are better to just stick with the Femara rather than waste so much money.


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[atomic sagebrush]

Your doctor can better advise you after doing your pretesting. Obviously your odds at 38 are not as good as at 28 but people still have had success with their own eggs if they have good pretesting. :)