Miscarriage 10/8/19 ttc...

[sofkay]

Hi Atomic,
i am 14 dpo today - i ovulated 1st September 2019
I got this this morning. not sure what to think of it? it doesnt seem very strong tbh? so i am suspicious either a pending chemical Or Old HCG from old baby? if thats even possible?

41937

very suspicious isn't strong enough for a actual bfp?

also, i need advice on dropping supplements which i might start doing just incase... im taking 1 scoop myo, 300mg coq10 (both are daily). the other one is just a general pregnancy multivitamin (which ill continue obviously) opps forgot and i am taking 200mg folate and i might keep this going because before pregnancy i had low folate anyway.

[sofkay]

To add, i just went to buy my pregnancy multivitamin supplement as my current one will run out after today..
they didnt have my usual in stock and i had to buy one without the omega 3 supplement that comes with it which ordinarily has: Fish Body Oil 477 mg
providing: DHA 200 mg. Feel like i need some kind of sub for this.. options are: 540mg fish oil, 117 dha and 177 epa with vit e at 11mg a-TE??
or.. 1000mg fish oil, 180mg eph, 120 dha no mention vit e but probably has the same thing as other one

[atomic sagebrush]

I prefer the lower dose fish oil. The higher doses have seemed to contribute to bleeding from the placenta called subchorionic hemorrhage, which can cause miscarriage.

[atomic sagebrush]

Have you gotten a negative test since the miscarriage?

It seems plenty dark to me for a positive (nowhere near faint like a chemical). But if you haven't had a negative test or a 0-5 reading on your HCG test then we can't know for sure yet.

[sofkay]

Hi atomic cant lie i never did do a preg test after. I guess wait and see if get AF? I am normally due it Sat just gone..

Ill retest fmu test tue or wed? Not sure which day yet..

How can i get off Myo & CoQ10 safely? Taking 300mg coq10 & 1 scoop myo a day

Re fish oil ill go for a low, safe dose :)

I hope its a new pregnancy. I can only guess it is as no AF and i defo ovulated, all the temps etc are good! & usual signs show O happened.

Retest Tue or Wed tho??

Too add further on 20th august was at about 60hcg and 22nd 30 somit close to 40. I ovulated 1st september this cycle.

[atomic sagebrush]

LOL no need to lie, it is actually very common not to test after a loss. We just don't want to see that negative test. :heart:

I hate to say it but I need to let you know I find it very unlikely that your HCG levels dropped and then you ovulated in such a short time span, particularly given how far along you were at the time of the loss. Anything is possible but my gut instinct tells me this is most likely from the original pregnancy and not a new one. I hope I'm wrong.

I would be more inclined for you to have a blood test, if the levels are higher than they were the last time we will know it's a new pregnancy. I would wait as long as possible, as long as you can stand, before testing again.

I would just start spacing the doses on myo and coq out further and further till down to one per week, then you can drop them.

[sofkay]

Do you mean as if its not pos i ovulated at all? Ie hcg wasnt low enough etc to ovulate at all?

[atomic sagebrush]

If your HCG was still above 5 it is very unlikely that ovulation happened. Your HCG would have had to drop very quickly to 0-5 and then your body would have very quickly had to make enough FSH (which the HCG prohibits) to grow a follicle to be ovulated. All this happening between August 22nd and Sept 1 seems unlikely to me, I'm sorry to say.

I know there are some people on line who will swear they did ovulate when their HCG was high, and they will tell you this is because "my period came so I know I ovulated". But they mistook a breakthrough bleed from dropping estrogen with a true period coming. They had a bleed without ovulating and assumed it meant they ovulated when they didn't, and mistook their breakthrough bleed with a true period.

That having been said, we did have 2 separate people on here who had a higher HCG level (teens/20's) and then did ovulate (and we know they ovulated because they got pregnant.) So all hope isn't lost, I just don't want you to get really excited just yet since we don't know what's happening.

[sofkay]

hi atomic quick question is biotin at 400ug ok to take if your pregnant? it says its 400% rda?
likewise with high doses of vitamin b6 at 10mg (714% rda) and b1 5mg at 455% rda?
is vitamin e at 100% rda safe?
thanks and sorry for all questions again!

which would be better tho - a pregnancy supplement with 76% rda vit E but 400ug/400% biotin

or vit e at 33% with v1 and b6 at 455,714% rda?

i do think at the moment i could be pregnant, but at present just taking vitamin d3 and folate. need to sort a multivitamin asap but dont want to make any mistakes this time, last one miscarried 7weeks+6 so i am concerned something went wrong with placenta or other and might be a deficiency at fault?

do i need omega 3 in my pregnancy? some say yes, some say no. neither of above tablets come with omega 3.

i shall stop asking question now!
oh, to add tell me if im wrong but when i get multivit i might carry on the folate at half dose,200mg so total really folicacid/folate would be 600mg. again i was deficient at one point in life (years ago now but..)

[atomic sagebrush]

Higher B6 is better than higher biotin altho that level of biotin is also likely fine.

We ~think~ Vit E at 100% is safe. There's been some conflicting info about supplemental E so I can't say for SURE if anything is safe but anything 100% and lower is believed to be ok.

Again, and I'm sorry to go on and on about this but the most likely (by far) cause of miscarriage at that stage gestation is chromosomal. Sperm, egg, or the way they combined. So many things have to go just right for a pregnancy to work itself out - the miracle is not when something goes wrong, but that it goes right as often as it does

It is very very unlikely for people in First World counties unless you've had a history of severe eating disorders and a very low BMI, to be deficient in any nutrients to such extent to cause a loss. We have a lifetime of eating and storing nutrients and as long as you've got a normal BMI and don't have any underlying health issues the odds are very high this was just sheer bad luck and nothing more than that.

The fish oil is omega 3 so if you continue that (even at spaced out doses) the odds are you're getting enough. Or you can just take care to eat fish 2x a week (no more than that due to risks of mercury).

I want you to continue the higher dose folate/folic acid alongside your multivitamin all through the entire first trimester and only at that point then gradually wean off. Folic acid/folate is the only nutrient every really proven to help prevent some losses (since it helps prevent neural tube defects). So just to be on the safest side, carry on with that all thru the first tri, then the neural tube will be formed and you can wean off the extra folate/FA at that time. :)

[sofkay]

im torn between these 2

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/sanatogen-mother-to-be-x30 doesnt come with omega 3. unsure if i need to supplement this seperately?
i like this as less vit e and not excessive amounts b1,b6 but does have high biotin.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vitabiotics-Pregnacare-Max-Tablets-Capsules/dp/B007MMSWPY/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=56937331361&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5MTi9qzd5AIVw0MYCh0rpgK6EAAYAiAA EgKt7_D_BwE&hvadid=259045354959&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1006933&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t2&hvqmt=e&hvrand=16118503570643336948&hvtargid=kwd-298944652020&hydadcr=28149_1724799&keywords=pregnacare+max&qid=1568912167&sr=8-1
or this one. but excessive b1, b6. lower then other one vit e. comes with omega.

is the omega a nec' supplement?

[atomic sagebrush]

Do not take the Vitabiotics product as it has some things in it that you should avoid IMO as they're not proven adequately safe to my liking during pregnancy. The Sainsbury is better.

It's up to you about Omega 3. Some choose to and some don't. Totally at your discretion. I took it with my younger 3, but not my older two, and see no difference LOL

[sofkay]

Do not take the Vitabiotics product as it has some things in it that you should avoid IMO as they're not proven adequately safe to my liking during pregnancy. The Sainsbury is better.

It's up to you about Omega 3. Some choose to and some don't. Totally at your discretion. I took it with my younger 3, but not my older two, and see no difference LOL

Strangely enough i liked the sainsburys one when i saw it.
Why is the vitabiotics one dangerous? What have they added?

[atomic sagebrush]

There's no reason for a pregnant woman to be taking l-arginine at all and inositol during pregnancy only under the care of a doctor. It's a lowish dose of inositol, but a fairly high one of l-arginine which can cause herpesvirus to flare up and that may be harmful to unborn babies. Plus it may raise testosterone and is 100% proven to affect levels of sex hormones (as is inositol.) I just prefer you guys avoid things that may affect sex hormones when pregnant, as sex hormones are what keep you pregnant! (let alone any negative effect on unborn baby)

[sofkay]

There's no reason for a pregnant woman to be taking l-arginine at all and inositol during pregnancy only under the care of a doctor. It's a lowish dose of inositol, but a fairly high one of l-arginine which can cause herpesvirus to flare up and that may be harmful to unborn babies. Plus it may raise testosterone and is 100% proven to affect levels of sex hormones (as is inositol.) I just prefer you guys avoid things that may affect sex hormones when pregnant, as sex hormones are what keep you pregnant! (let alone any negative effect on unborn baby)

Thanks once again, interesting stuff! Something told.me.something wos up wiv vitabiotics couldnt put finger on it!!

[sofkay]

atomic, before i buy can i just triple check that the amount of panothatic acid at 8.7mg is ok? Last Qu :)

[atomic sagebrush]

It's slightly more than the standard recommendation (6/7 mg range) but I wouldn't worry about it. Not hugely more.

[sofkay]

really am confused my vitamin malarky! dont wanna take ''too much'' and cause problems that i shouldnt.. same time dont wanna take too little!!!

i was looking at our nhs the freebies they give to some people only have folic acid, vitamin D & Vitamin C thats it!!

How crutial are these B vitamins? Iron etc?
Is it ok to take folate & folic acid.. plan was 400 folic acid, 200 folate? as if i buy the pregnancy supplement its folic acid not folate.

[atomic sagebrush]

Just watch out for things that are like WAYYY over the recommendations. A little bit more is ok, it's the vitamins that have like 800% of stuff that you need to watch out for.

I do like you guys to take iron when pregnant. Most people get more than enough B vitamins since food is fortified with most of them and if you eat a normal healthy diet you don't need extra. So you could take the free NHS vitamins and then get an extra iron 18-30 mg.

Yes you can mix folate and folic acid. The only people who can't are those who can't tolerate folic acid (they should never take folic acid or even eat foods fortified with it) but that is a small minority of people with the MTHFR mutation or a history of repeat unexplained losses.

[sofkay]

Hiya to check when i finally get pregnancy vitamins i am alright just to jump in and take them straight away?
Im currently 600ug folate & vitamin d3 only...
I was planning to keep up a extra 200ug folate along sode 400mg folic acid thats in pregnancy supplement. Please advise what you thinks best. Also can i take folate 200ug at same time as pregnancy supplements? Or better to take different times?
Thanks soooooo much!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yep start them right away.

200 folate on top of 400 folic acid is fine.

I woud take the folate at a different time of day to be sure your body always has a steady supply of folate/FA coming in.

[sofkay]

thank you and you think it is better for me to take them then not?
https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/gb/groceries/sanatogen-mother-to-be-x30?storeId=10151&langId=44&krypto=yIOWpTQNhxySAN5gICZWEmv89iCWOPtr%2BGz1chnx3 QirlnXcn%2BPgsPyrMySz03bDNrH5JfbGPfjZ8qjHLew7yLw8O 8ttjgNSEYwtL4nolcEV6oTUeZ4He1dcd4HegHZlWaZBhbhigCa yFGTEOzC%2ByMno2%2BPXw8DPmtdKaUbgcAY%3D&ddkey=https%3Agb%2Fgroceries%2Fsanatogen-mother-to-be-x30

even with the high'ish vit e, high biotin and panothenic acid?

yes ill do 200ug folate morning and if these are definately ok just to start and no levels are too high? then ill start these tomorrow... is taking this supplement alongside folate 200ug better then keeping up with folate 600 + d3 only? (even if i add one more vitamin on your advice instead of this supplement?)

[atomic sagebrush]

I recommend more than 400 on folic acid (I'm not convinced 400 is enough for many people) so I'm happy to see you take the extra 200.

I think those prenatals are fine. The Vit. E is not even up to 100. Biotin is less than in many other prenatals and the PA is barely more than 100.

I think it's better than just folate and D3. I think a few extra nutrients can't hurt at all and the iron may help a lot.

[sofkay]

I recommend more than 400 on folic acid (I'm not convinced 400 is enough for many people) so I'm happy to see you take the extra 200.

I think those prenatals are fine. The Vit. E is not even up to 100. Biotin is less than in many other prenatals and the PA is barely more than 100.

I think it's better than just folate and D3. I think a few extra nutrients can't hurt at all and the iron may help a lot.

Thanks soo much :)

[sofkay]

Just to thank you again.
Had progression thru tests so knew was a new pregnancy but got it confirmed today as new. V v early days 5wks.
Saw nothing but a sac and yolk but all where it should be & this time measuring perfectly with dates i gave her, Ovulation 1st Sept etc! :) :)
I have started Preg supplements & folate @ 200mcg.

[atomic sagebrush]

Excellent! Huge congrats!