Folic acid

[HMama2014]

Does reducing it right away cause miscarriage? It’s that why it’s best to slowly reduce intake? Like I’m taking 1200mg and if I just go to 800 right away will it be okay??

[atomic sagebrush]

That is what our fear is, and we've had several people mysteriously lose pregnancies after stopping it so I have you guys wean off of it very gradually.

Are you at the end of the first trimester?? I like you guys to take it at the higher amount all thru the first trimester and then gradually wean off (or if you prefer, start the weaning process at the 10th or 11th week gestation)

Just space the dose further and further out till you're taking only the amount you wish to be taking. This should take 3-4 weeks depending on how much you're weaning (in the case of going from 1200 to 800 should only take 7-10 days)

[barrebabe]

Why wean off of it at all..!?

[4blue2pink]

worryingly over here (UK) we are told to take it before conception and for the first 12 weeks and then its just assumed that you stop, all the maternity notes say is "take folic acid daily until you are 12 weeks pregnant" there is no mention of weaning off it. in all my pregnancies ive never once been told to wean off it, i only learned about that on this site, thankyou Atomic! :heart: and id assume most UK swayers wont know to wean off it.

this is the NHS advice page and no mention anywhere of weaning off :(

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/pregnancy/why-do-i-need-folic-acid-in-pregnancy/

[atomic sagebrush]

Why wean off of it at all..!?


My real question is, why NOT wean off them?? It causes no harm to wean and may help!

Because when it comes to vitamins, your body "gets used" to them coming in at certain levels. If it "thinks" you're getting too much it will excrete more and save less from your diet. Then let's say you stop taking them suddenly. Your body is not that smart, it carries on excreting more and saving less for a while before it figures it all out. So you go from taking a good amount of something, not only to taking NONE of something, but even having your body continue to get rid of what it thinks is excess, you go from feast to famine overnight and bodies aren't good with stuff like that.

Folic acid is a water soluble vitamin. Your body isn't great at storing it. So unlike things like Vitamin D which your body does store, if you stop taking folic acid and your body isn't saving it from your foods (and even excreting it!) you have none coming in. Your baby needs nutrients. I have seen firsthand several unexplained losses where the people dropped folic acid suddenly. Do I KNOW this is what happened? No, but it's happened often enough with no explanation whatsoever that it is just a sensible precaution.

Please ladies, just wean off stuff. Even if 1000 doctors say it isn't necessary. It hurts nothing and may save your baby's life in addition to helping your body to continue to function.

[atomic sagebrush]

worryingly over here (UK) we are told to take it before conception and for the first 12 weeks and then its just assumed that you stop, all the maternity notes say is "take folic acid daily until you are 12 weeks pregnant" there is no mention of weaning off it. in all my pregnancies ive never once been told to wean off it, i only learned about that on this site, thankyou Atomic! :heart: and id assume most UK swayers wont know to wean off it.

this is the NHS advice page and no mention anywhere of weaning off :(

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/pregnancy/why-do-i-need-folic-acid-in-pregnancy/

It's not just in the UK, it's that way here too!! even though they know that elderly people and those on daily aspirin are causing themselves serious harm stopping vitamin pills and aspirin cold turkey, no one has ever bothered to extrapolate that to pregnant women. Docs have pregnant women drop folic and aspirin both cold turkey and I truly believe this is causing a fair number of miscarriages.

This is entirely my pet project, you're not going to hear it from anyone else. I saw several people on IG (blue swayers who on IG take a high dose of folic acid) have sudden losses at 12-14 weeks (and babies were genetically normal) and I started investigating it there. I saw enough hard evidence regarding weaning off supplements that I made it my cardinal law at that point and see absolutely no reason not to have you guys wean off stuff. No harm, likely big help. :)

[4blue2pink]

It's not just in the UK, it's that way here too!! even though they know that elderly people and those on daily aspirin are causing themselves serious harm stopping vitamin pills and aspirin cold turkey, no one has ever bothered to extrapolate that to pregnant women. Docs have pregnant women drop folic and aspirin both cold turkey and I truly believe this is causing a fair number of miscarriages.

This is entirely my pet project, you're not going to hear it from anyone else. I saw several people on IG (blue swayers who on IG take a high dose of folic acid) have sudden losses at 12-14 weeks (and babies were genetically normal) and I started investigating it there. I saw enough hard evidence regarding weaning off supplements that I made it my cardinal law at that point and see absolutely no reason not to have you guys wean off stuff. No harm, likely big help. :)

its such an easy thing to do and as you say could literally save your baby's life, im so sorry for all those women who lost their babies :( thankyou for putting the info out there, i wouldn't of known if it weren't for the posts you made about it on here.

[barrebabe]

My real question is, why NOT wean off them?? It causes no harm to wean and may help!

Because when it comes to vitamins, your body "gets used" to them coming in at certain levels. If it "thinks" you're getting too much it will excrete more and save less from your diet. Then let's say you stop taking them suddenly. Your body is not that smart, it carries on excreting more and saving less for a while before it figures it all out. So you go from taking a good amount of something, not only to taking NONE of something, but even having your body continue to get rid of what it thinks is excess, you go from feast to famine overnight and bodies aren't good with stuff like that.

Folic acid is a water soluble vitamin. Your body isn't great at storing it. So unlike things like Vitamin D which your body does store, if you stop taking folic acid and your body isn't saving it from your foods (and even excreting it!) you have none coming in. Your baby needs nutrients. I have seen firsthand several unexplained losses where the people dropped folic acid suddenly. Do I KNOW this is what happened? No, but it's happened often enough with no explanation whatsoever that it is just a sensible precaution.

Please ladies, just wean off stuff. Even if 1000 doctors say it isn't necessary. It hurts nothing and may save your baby's life in addition to helping your body to continue to function.

Sorry I meant why not just keep taking it? Why stop at all - whether gradually or not?

[barrebabe]

I have MTHFR mutation (which it’s estimated 25% of Caucasians do), so I will always be on methylated folate pregnant or not. But none of my friends here have ever stopped folic acid or folate until after delivery so that’s why I was wondering why we wouldn’t just suggest it for the entire pregnancy.

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry I meant why not just keep taking it? Why stop at all - whether gradually or not?

People DO continue to take the amount in the prenatal.

We can't take higher dose folic acid after the end of the first trimester because it's been linked to some things like asthma and some women store up massive amounts of it, which has been potentially linked to autism. Once the neural tube is formed it's believed we no longer need quite as much and so I have you guys come off the extra at that point in time (plus most people are recovered from having been on LE Diet and are no longer suffering from morning sickness at that point in time)

[atomic sagebrush]

I have MTHFR mutation (which it’s estimated 25% of Caucasians do), so I will always be on methylated folate pregnant or not. But none of my friends here have ever stopped folic acid or folate until after delivery so that’s why I was wondering why we wouldn’t just suggest it for the entire pregnancy.

People wean down to the amount in a prenatal. They continue taking it the whole pregnancy, just not at the higher dose.

[laurelw]

How much should we be taking through to 12 weeks? 1000? 1500?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[4blue2pink]

we are advised 400mcg daily here but should i take a higher dose? (currently not swaying or ttc just thinking ahead)
i will be 30 for the next baby does that make any difference? may seem a stupid question but i had a few comments from midwives during my latest pregnancy about my age (im 29) feeling quite confused about the whole having babies in your 20's vs 30's thing, does it really make such a huge difference?

[atomic sagebrush]

How much should we be taking through to 12 weeks? 1000? 1500?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like pink swayers to take 1200-1600, somewhere in there.

[atomic sagebrush]

we are advised 400mcg daily here but should i take a higher dose? (currently not swaying or ttc just thinking ahead)
i will be 30 for the next baby does that make any difference? may seem a stupid question but i had a few comments from midwives during my latest pregnancy about my age (im 29) feeling quite confused about the whole having babies in your 20's vs 30's thing, does it really make such a huge difference?

When you're actively planning a pregnancy yes take the higher amount. When you're between babies stick with 400.

Your midwives are as they say, "kookoo for cocoa puffs." All of our odds of trouble do gradually rise over the course of time, and this picks up the pace over time, but at 29/30 I would have absolutely zero qualms about egg quality.

We are finding more and more that the "rule of 35" is based on really poor data (seriously, it comes from the 1600's and apparently doctors never felt the burning need to amass more data from a world without rickets, LOL) and they basically have used this information to scare women into changing their behavior in ways that some find more socially acceptable. The fact is, a woman with proven fertility, in good health, really does not have much higher risk of a poor pregnancy outcome than when she was younger.

[4blue2pink]

When you're actively planning a pregnancy yes take the higher amount. When you're between babies stick with 400.

Your midwives are as they say, "kookoo for cocoa puffs." All of our odds of trouble do gradually rise over the course of time, and this picks up the pace over time, but at 29/30 I would have absolutely zero qualms about egg quality.

We are finding more and more that the "rule of 35" is based on really poor data (seriously, it comes from the 1600's and apparently doctors never felt the burning need to amass more data from a world without rickets, LOL) and they basically have used this information to scare women into changing their behavior in ways that some find more socially acceptable. The fact is, a woman with proven fertility, in good health, really does not have much higher risk of a poor pregnancy outcome than when she was younger.

Thankyou Atomic :heart: im taking the 400 daily at the moment and will continue to do so, should i up it once i get to 12 weeks out from ttc? is it ok to take 3 of the 400mcg tablets per day to make up the 1200?

thats what i thought, i know so many women who have had their babies in their 30's including most women in my family, im the odd one out starting younger! one cousin just had her 1st at 36 another at 39 and my great-grandma had her 2 youngest children in her 40's, none of them needed fertility treatments. But it seems the medical pro's are obsessed, as soon as they realise i'll be 30 next birthday its all doom and gloom, risk this-risk that, problems getting pregnant etc.. but what they say doesnt seem to fit with what actually happens in the real world!

just out of interest is there an age where you would reccommend switching things up for egg quality just in case? sorry if this seems a silly question its just i know i'll never get a helpful answer out of any medical professional on this subject!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that's what we like to see - take 400 morning, noon and night. It's better used by the body tht way.

Yes it's actually quite bizarre when we think about our family histories, isn't it?? My mother, stepmother, and grandmother had babies at 38. My stepmother's mom had an unplanned, successful pregnancy at 45 (this person is perfectly healthy and 60 years old now!) My greatgrandmother and both my husband's grandmothers had larger families with wide age ranges and simply HAD TO be having kids well into their 30's if not even beyond that (I don't know their ages.) I was even looking at some geneological stuff my dad sent me and was surprised to see several births to women in their 40's - one of whom had bought a birth control device that failed and she threw it into the river in anger, LOL. All these people had healthy babies who grew up to have healthy babies of their own. In my experience, we are seeing good rates of conception up till 43, and then it does drop off.

I think the medical professionals who are saying things like this to you have completely lost the plot. People do things all the time that could be far more harmful than being 30 years old, for criminy's sake. I suspect that these people, at least some of them, have an opinion regarding the size of your family and are saying negative things to you for their own reasons (which is something we've seen happen repeatedly, particularly in the UK.)

Regarding when to change things up, we've had good results with the alternate forms of LE Diet (both the PCOS and atomic fertility type diets) so I'm fine with you guys making that switch at any time. I would even consider having everyone switch, but I find that many people cannot stick to those diets, they are much more expensive, and a lot of people end up losing too much weight on them, so I stick with that version of diet for whom it is appropriate. But yes anyone who is worried about egg quality, it gets just as great results to use whole grains instead of white, limit sugar, and have full fat instead of skim dairy. You could even up protein/fat to 50-60 g to be sure you'e not getting too many carbs (but for those who are just on the diet as a preventative, I'd stick with the lower range unless you have reason to believe you have any PCO-tendencies.)

Now as for when I start having real concerns about egg quality, I'd say minor concerns beginning at 38 and more serious concerns at 40.

[4blue2pink]

Yes that's what we like to see - take 400 morning, noon and night. It's better used by the body tht way.

Yes it's actually quite bizarre when we think about our family histories, isn't it?? My mother, stepmother, and grandmother had babies at 38. My stepmother's mom had an unplanned, successful pregnancy at 45 (this person is perfectly healthy and 60 years old now!) My greatgrandmother and both my husband's grandmothers had larger families with wide age ranges and simply HAD TO be having kids well into their 30's if not even beyond that (I don't know their ages.) I was even looking at some geneological stuff my dad sent me and was surprised to see several births to women in their 40's - one of whom had bought a birth control device that failed and she threw it into the river in anger, LOL. All these people had healthy babies who grew up to have healthy babies of their own. In my experience, we are seeing good rates of conception up till 43, and then it does drop off.

I think the medical professionals who are saying things like this to you have completely lost the plot. People do things all the time that could be far more harmful than being 30 years old, for criminy's sake. I suspect that these people, at least some of them, have an opinion regarding the size of your family and are saying negative things to you for their own reasons (which is something we've seen happen repeatedly, particularly in the UK.)

Regarding when to change things up, we've had good results with the alternate forms of LE Diet (both the PCOS and atomic fertility type diets) so I'm fine with you guys making that switch at any time. I would even consider having everyone switch, but I find that many people cannot stick to those diets, they are much more expensive, and a lot of people end up losing too much weight on them, so I stick with that version of diet for whom it is appropriate. But yes anyone who is worried about egg quality, it gets just as great results to use whole grains instead of white, limit sugar, and have full fat instead of skim dairy. You could even up protein/fat to 50-60 g to be sure you'e not getting too many carbs (but for those who are just on the diet as a preventative, I'd stick with the lower range unless you have reason to believe you have any PCO-tendencies.)

Now as for when I start having real concerns about egg quality, I'd say minor concerns beginning at 38 and more serious concerns at 40.

Ok i will do the divided doses :)

Yes!! looking at my family and also just other women generally there are so so many who have babies without any issue in their 30's and 40's, the mum of Britains biggest family has had babies right through her teens, 20's, 30's and early 40's, the age gaps didnt get bigger as she got older either, i think her youngest 2 are 14 months apart and she had them both in her 40's.

your right about the big families, back when they were the norm women must of had babies into their 30's and 40's especially as contraception wasnt really effective! i know my great grandma didnt plan the 2 she had in her 40's and (much more recently!) a friend of mine had her 8th 9th and 10th babies in her early 40's without any issues. Its just crazy that we are considered "past it" by 30!!

LOL at throwing the birth control device in the river!!

Yes i agree 100% about the professionals not liking big family's and saying things because of that, they seem quite smug about the fact that i might struggle to have more past 30.

diet wise i did the pcos diet last time after having an opposite on the standard LE, as far as im aware i dont have PCOS. i had an opposite on pcos diet too but was planning to do that diet again as cutting out sugar and white carbs made me feel really good and ive actually kept those changes ever since :)
for the dairy should i do 1 serving of full fat milk per day or almond milk? im happy to do either.

thankyou for taking the time to answer, i felt like what the doctors say couldnt be right but they are so adament! late 30's-early 40's makes a lot more sense and its good to know my eggs aren't totally scrambled just yet!! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh yes totally - we have the same thing here in the US as well, with many of our biggest families having kids well into their 40's.

My stepmother's mom who had her daughter at 45 was completely humiliated by it, poor thing!! So I suspect we'd have seen far more people doing that if it wasn't so frowned upon during that time.

I do want you on the PCOS-type diet again. I really do think we see better results with that for anyone who can stick to it (it's much harder to stick with and people lose scads of weight on it)

Full fat dairy, not almond milk. Almond milk is fine to have, but whenever you have actual dairy it needs to be full fat.

[4blue2pink]

Oh yes totally - we have the same thing here in the US as well, with many of our biggest families having kids well into their 40's.

My stepmother's mom who had her daughter at 45 was completely humiliated by it, poor thing!! So I suspect we'd have seen far more people doing that if it wasn't so frowned upon during that time.

I do want you on the PCOS-type diet again. I really do think we see better results with that for anyone who can stick to it (it's much harder to stick with and people lose scads of weight on it)

Full fat dairy, not almond milk. Almond milk is fine to have, but whenever you have actual dairy it needs to be full fat.

It seems the "medical advice" is designed to try and manipulate women into doing what society see's as correct. not just age either, there was no mention of postpartum haemhorrage with my first 2 baby's but then i was 100% going to bleed to death after the birth of my 3rd because it is SO risky to have more than 2 kids!! your uterus just cannot handle it, its only designed to function properly for 2 pregnancies!!!! funny how 2 kids is also generally seen as the ideal/aceptable number..

ok PCOS diet with full fat dairy it will be :) is there any point adding almond milk? i wasnt sure if it was replacing cows milk for pink swayers?

[atomic sagebrush]

In many, many cases this appears to be the case, sadly. (although hearing someone try to scare someone about postpartum hemorrhage after 2 pregnancies is a new one for me!)

No I want you guys to have dairy still if you like it. No benefit to switching over to almond milk that we're aware of, and many people may lower their fertility too far if they go fully vegan.

[4blue2pink]

In many, many cases this appears to be the case, sadly. (although hearing someone try to scare someone about postpartum hemorrhage after 2 pregnancies is a new one for me!)

No I want you guys to have dairy still if you like it. No benefit to switching over to almond milk that we're aware of, and many people may lower their fertility too far if they go fully vegan.

they are obsessed with pph over here, they admit the evidence of more baby's=greater risk is based on 3rd world studies and is considered very poor quality but it doesnt stop them preaching it as if its the gospel truth. if you decline the injection to deliver the placenta for your 3rd+ baby it causes panic, even though every midwife i've asked has admitted they've had women who have had the injection and then hemorraged anyway..
ok so i'll go with cows milk rather than almond milk, is it 1 serving of full fat milk per day for the pcos diet? or is that just for people who've got issues with their cycle?

[atomic sagebrush]

Wow that's amazing, I"ve added that to my notes! I was not aware of that pressure being put upon people.

You don't have to have a serving of full fat dairy on PCOS diet if you'd prefer to "spend" your protein/fat on other things, BUT just be sure you're NOT eating skim dairy, it is the worst for blood sugar! Anyone who is having wacky cycles or trouble conceiving/poor egg quality should have the serving of full fat dairy (even if not on PCOS-type LE Diet) because it's a miracle for fixing fertility issues and cycle weirdness.

[4blue2pink]

Wow that's amazing, I"ve added that to my notes! I was not aware of that pressure being put upon people.

You don't have to have a serving of full fat dairy on PCOS diet if you'd prefer to "spend" your protein/fat on other things, BUT just be sure you're NOT eating skim dairy, it is the worst for blood sugar! Anyone who is having wacky cycles or trouble conceiving/poor egg quality should have the serving of full fat dairy (even if not on PCOS-type LE Diet) because it's a miracle for fixing fertility issues and cycle weirdness.

ive often wondered if the large family US mama's face the same hysteria over pph risk im guessing not!
i wont touch skim dairy! thankyou for answering my questions i really appriciate it :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Not that people have told me and I didn't get it from my doctors - but that doesn't mean it isn't happening!