One last chance for Baby girl

[Onelastchance]

Hi,

I am new to this website.
I am trying TTC a baby girl. I have 3 boys, all conceived 1 night before O (all confirmed by ultrasound on morning of O). Tried to sway for baby 3 but ovulated 3 days earlier, and got my baby boy. I am turning 40 this year, so this is urgent! Been trying 3 days before O for the past 6 months, but no bfp cause I never know when I ovulate so ended up with a o-5 several times, and one o-3 which didn't work. All confirmed by ultrasound. I have ultrasound follow up 3 times a month so spot ovulation.

I have tried cal/mag and Dr Papa's diet for number 3... obviously didn't work. Baby 1 DTD every 2 days, Baby 2 only once night before O. Baby 3, only once night before O.

I don't know what to do anymore I want to try one last sway... I will need a program and coaching urgently. Expecting AF in 2-3 days.

Who can help me and advice on how to proceed please?

Thanks,

Onelastchance

[atomic sagebrush]

Timing doesn't work. You got boys for some other reason. Timing has been as debunked as it's possible for something to BE debunked: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

I strongly urge you to go to a different method than timing. You're not going to get pregnant continuing with that method for the reasons you already understand - it's impossible if your cycle is not regular and given your age, time is not on our side here. I hate to see you squander any more time on timing, but if you're sold on it, we have a method that will help you boost your chances of an O-2 cutoff if you would like to try that.

Dr. Papa's diet and cal mag also does not work. I got all my boys with high dairy intake, my third and fourth boy with cal-mag supps, and gave it all up and finally got my girl. We have a different diet based on newer research and you can find that here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/16780-low-everything-diet-nutshell-version.html

But that having been said, given your age I think you should follow this variation of LE Diet which will be better for egg quality and your sway (you have to scroll down the first few posts to find the LE Diet variations) https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

I also recommend you do cardio exercise 60 minutes a day, 4-7 days a week. We've had great results with that.

I am happy to help you in any way you need - just let me know how I can help!

[Onelastchance]

Hi Atomic,

I am so sorry for this late reply, this lock down situation with 3 "baby" boys, and no husband during the day (he still have to work - medical), it's been so hectic!

I have been following the LE diet, funny thing is, this is already a bit how I've been eating for the past 6 months, which explains this lost of weight. The only thing is, I had been eating quite a lot of eggs as advised by Dr Papa, and quite a lot of nuts (cashew nuts) I've stopped eating that.

Cardio time is impossible now :-(... but I have barely the time to eat, or sit down, and I am still shrinking in size it's almost scary. My problem now is that I do not have the food resources, because we are not allowed to go to the supermarket. I am left with very little vegies, but quite a lot of rice, pasta, no more almond milk but full cream milk and things like that... plus I can't eat sodium free, it's getting so complicated to eat already... so sodium free...:-( I know you said it doesn't matter that much, but I have been so "programmed" already it's hard to go back, but I have no choice...

I am expecting my period in 5 days. Didn't give it a go this month, couldn't because of timing and Covid19 work duties for my husband.

Do I still have a chance now in this situation ? Anything you can advise ?

Thanks and hope you're taking care of yourself,

Onelastchance

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh phew I'm so glad you quit eating all the eggs!!! I have seen the vast majority of the people eating lots of eggs having boys.

Sodium doesn't matter AT ALL. Just let that go now. We have not been doing that for years and our results are higher than eveer. Please eat whatever it takes of your available food to keep weight on. If you can't get pregnant you have no chance of a baby girl, and if you cut back too far you will stop ovulating and will have to eat blue friendly in order to restart your ovulation!

We actually get plenty of girls with people eating full fat dairy. You do need some fat to continue ovulating and so I think you having some full cream milk is a good thing!!

There are actually quite a few similarities between the French Diet and LE Diet. I am of the opinion that's why the mineral balancing diets appear to work for people- because the diets are not just different in minerals, they are different in LOTS of ways and the French Diet for pink is much more "low everything" and the French Diet for blue is much more "high everything".

You absolutely and totally still have a chance of pink!!!

[Onelastchance]

Hey Atomic,

I am soooo depressed now. Decided this month to move closer to ovulation, and try a o-2, or o-1.5...DTD on CD13 based on cycle symptoms (no more o tests due to lockdown :-( - last one was CD12 and it was staring to get darker). And here I am now, CD 17 and ovulating I can feel it ;-(. So 4 days cut off, or to the best 3.5, which i again not working for me for having tried everal times.. I screw up every month because my ovulation is sooooo irregular from CD12 - CD 18 I never know. Last month was CD 15.

Is there any group of "old" girls like me... 39 or up trying to conceive. I feel guilty sometimes trying to have a baby at that age, thinking how old his parents will be, and the risks associated with down syndrome etc...and yet, i can't seem to let go that dream, i will always feel like that last baby i missing...need to share experience and stories with people in my situation if i can.

Take care,

Onelastchance

[atomic sagebrush]

Have another attempt immediately!!!! 3.5-4 day cutoffs are abysmal rates of conception. Adding an attempt now will NOT count as going against one attempt because your lst attempt was so long ago it no longer counts.

In future months I think you should go to e4d method (after your period ends start having unprotected sex every 72 hours and continue on till you're sure you've ovulated, even if it means going all the way through till when your next period begins.) I know you wanted to do timing, but it does not work, has been completely debunked as thoroughly as it's possible for something to be debunked by science, and cuts odds of conception dramatically. Since time is not on our side here, you really need to start thinking about giving up on timing stuff or there will be no baby.

Re having a baby at 39, the risks are very much overblown. Yes, it's true that rates of Downs and such do go up but the vast majority of babies are born normal and healthy. I had a baby at 39 and 42 and they don't care at all how old their parents are, not to mention the fact that so many more people are doing that nowadays it's really not even remarkable any more.

[mommymachine]

Just jumping into say, my parents were 40 and 42 when they had me. Yes they were older than the parents of my peers but they were ever loving, ever present parents. My dad did everything with me and never let age slow him down. I even dragged him to Disneyland with me this past February at age 74 AND He went on rides with my children and I.

Also, my husbands aunt had her first children, healthy twin boys, at age 48. They are 7 years old now and doing great.


3 blue 3 pink

TTC blue!

[Onelastchance]

Thank you Mommymachine, and thank you Atomic... your messages gave me a big deal of comfort. It is so hard when you don't have a mother, or a sister, or someone really close to talk about all of that. My friends would think you already have 3, say thank you and stop trying. Now, well, yes I want to try and swaying, but if it were a boy ? Wouldn't it be happiness anyway ? I only have one brother, his kids are older, we live quite far away from each other, so I feel lonely... so having a big family is beautiful. I am grateful for my kids, just can't seem to be able to give up on that last baby :-).

Thank you for making me feel not that old :-)

Atomic, we tried to DTD last night... and tried and tried... until it was pointless trying anymore. I didn't put any pressure, didn't even mention the day or date... but he was tired, and started to get nervous and frustrated when didn't work first time. Tough when that happens.

Am having a blood test done on Tuesday. Dr came to see my child and asked me why I lost so much weight in 6 months :-/ ... So having it done next week. Hope everything ok. Anyway, I know i lost all my weight from Dr Papas diet, which I followed for more than a year. And it is still so hard for me to stop eating normally again... i mean... eating some cheese, or normal bread, or a coffee or even a chocolate sometimes.

Atomic, i really do feel i am doing this diet wrong, because it seems so easy. From what i am learning to calculate, i eems to be aroung 1300 - 1500 calories. Is that ok? I also seem to be craving sugar much much more than before. Maybe because I am being less hard on myself.

Anyway, I will need to let go that cycle again, and start looking forward to the next one.

Thanks for your all encouragements.

Atomic... wow great for your baby at 42, you gave me back my smile.

Mommymachine, did you sway after your 3 boys ? How did you get 3 girls ?

[atomic sagebrush]

The LE Diet is MEANT to be easy. The reason I started all this was from watching so many women like you who tried to follow Dr. Papa's diet, or the Ingender Diet which is even more restrictive, who spent months and even years and made themselves very thin and even ill, only to get BOYS anyway either because they gave up on diet after having been on it for a year or more, or seemingly for no reason even though they stuck with the diet perfectly! It just could not be possible that anyone had to eat this way since so many people still got boys anyway.

So YES IT IS absoulely 100% right and correct for you to be eating 1300-1500 calories or even more than that. I really prefer most people eat 1500 calories or more, but I understand you're not able to do that just yet.

We have such good results with eating things like coffee, chocolate, potatoes - my daughter is like 30% potato, I ate so many potatoes with her!

I think the reason you're craving sugar is because you were starving and your body was in famine mode. Now that you're out of that mode, it is looking for ways to quickly regain a lot of weight, so we will need to avoid that pitfall of eating too many calories and gaining lots of weight back (a little is ok and may be what you need to get pregnant). But I PROMISE you can have the various foods on the LE Diet - we are eating all that stuff, while sticking in the limits, and have better results that way than ever before, far better than when we were eating stricter and more limited diets.

[Onelastchance]

Hi Atomic,

I hope you're well :-).

CD 3 now... My doctor asked me to have a blood test done due to loss of weight and severe loss of hair, and everything came back normal. I think that french diet has been very very hard on my body.

My problem now is I have to put on some weight back... How do I do so without spoiling my girl sway. I am still skipping breakfast, had some rice, tons of vegies and some mayonaise for lunch, and I feel like having a toast every afternoon with my fruit, would that be ok ?

Also I had to eat some fish yesterday :-( (husband watching my weight!! :-))... is that ok ? Hope not too much sodium.

Any advice you can have as to how keep my weight and not spoil my sway.I am having about 1300 calories / day.

Also another question, since it is hard to just "Decide" the day we DTD, husband needs to be available. If we really get close to O and it makes me ovulation, how about i use some Geliofil ? Is it harder to fall pregnant with geliofil ?

Thanks,

One last chance

[atomic sagebrush]

Did they test you for anemia?? I was anemic last year, not even very severely but just at the borderline, and my hair fell out! The calcium in the French Diet can block iron absorption so I would have you add in 18-30 mg iron 3x a week.

The first thing I would like to do is see you eat 1500-1800 cals a day. No more 1300.

Are you eating 50-60 g protein and fat?? If not, do. I am really concerned about you not eating enough!! I am worried that you have switched from the restrictive French Diet and are now cutting calories too much, so your body cannot recover from that nutrient deprivation.

Low carb vegetables are free and unlimited. We do not count anything in them and you can have as much as you want. We also do not count protein or fat in higher carb veg (like potatoes, maize, and sweet potato) or fruit, so you need to get that 50-60 g protein and fat without counting the protein and fat in fruit and veg.

Sodium does not sway. It doesn't work at all. Most of us have totally given up on it and our results are higher than ever. And I got my 4th boy while limiting sodium, and then gave that up when I got my girl. The minerals just don't work and it is much easier to follow diet when you aren't limiting sodium.

When I have swayers who are not conceiving I have them add in a serving of full fat dairy every day (no skim dairy), 4-6 eggs a week, and a serving of fish every week. So I am fine with you eating fish once or even twice a week.

Yes toast and fruit is fine to add, I just want you to be sure you're getting enough fat and protein too.

It will be very much harder to fall pregnant with Geliofil and it also does not work anyway. At this point I would be having you give up stuff like Geliofil, not adding it in!!! I would strongly advise against adding it in.

[Onelastchance]

I didn't see the result, Dr called to say everything was good. He tested lots and lots of things... even diabetes, thyroide, FBS, FBC, ESR...I asked if i didn't have anemia, he said no but recommended a cal/mag/zinc if I felt tired, but not necessary. He thinks it simply comes from the whole 3 months confinement alone with my 3 baby boys, and the anxiety that comes with. He recommended I take half of 1.5mg lexotanil everynight just to help relax and let go. Now, I know bromazepam is not ideal to take when pregnant, but I still ask you do you have any idea about that ? He says it's nt dangerous to have such a low amount for a couple of weeks, but do you know if it sways either way ?

Can you advise on my diet ? Examples :

Saturday :

9am : Black coffee (is black bad or is it better with milk ? or doesn't matter ? )
12:00 : 4 tbspn rice (130 cal approx), 4 tablespoon of mixed veggies (carrots, cuccumber, peppers, and a few pieces of potatoes - no idea how to calculate calories :-/), and 5 prawns (medium size - no idea how much it weighs so kept it small portion - it's 99 calories for 100grs) with 1 teaspoon of mayonnaise (31 calories))
3:30 : 1 apple (95 cals), 1 pear (102 cals), 1 camomille tea and 2 white timtam biscuit (240 cals)(feeling good treat)
7:00 : 1 slice of hawaienne with mozzarella (300 cals) with 3 table spoons of veggies and 2 glasses of white wine (160 cals) (but alcohol is only week ends)

Total approx : 1157 calories (oops) but not counting veggies

Sunday :

9:00 - Cofee with 1 tea spoon full milk powder
12:00 - 3 table spoon lasagna (300 cals) with cucumber and carrots and 3 mnms (12 cals)
4pm - 1 apple (95), 1 pear (102) and 1 toast with peanut butter (220 cals)
7pm - 2 toasted sandwhiches with mozzarella cheese (400 cals ) and cucumber, 1 hot milo with 1 tblspoon full cream milk (150 cal)

Total : 1279 calories

Ok now i think i didn't eat enough this week end :-/ ...

I am concerned about the too much mozzarella cheese .. i have to cook for the whoe family and with lack of time hard to cook separately. Is it ok if i have mozzarella cheese ? Is there a limit you think ?

Ok, for geliofil won't use it.

Girls doing the LE diet... any sharing of eating ideas ? :-/

Onelast chance

[Onelastchance]

Also can someone tell me what is jump and dump ? I understand the jumping part but dump ? And when ? Straight after ? Or after a while ?

Also... what is CFR in frequency BD ?

Some sugar seems to have better result than none right ? (was watching the girl sway stats on GD) For DS3 I was on a really low diet (Similar to Dr Papa but without the cow mil - i was having lots of almond milk calcium and rice milk calcium and calcium supplement and sometimes goat milk yogourt) with ZERO sugar...So zero sugar, plus zero salt plus zero everything... god that was hard... and a baby boy in the end... but beautiful though :-)

[atomic sagebrush]

We believe things like antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications sway pink. Please have a plan in place with your doc about when and how to come off it.

Black coffee or with milk is fine. Whichever you prefer. Just no sugar. Some whole milk or even cream would be a good way to get in some fat here.

You do not count calories in low carb veg, so you would not count calories in things like cucumber, carrot, and pepper
You count only the calories in a potato, and I can't tell you how many calories since i don't know the amount you ate. Google is a great place to find out how many calories and also to get pictures of serving sizes.

1157 calories is not enough, obviously, and that looks very low in protein (though the prawns help) and probably fat as well, but I can't say for sure since the totals on those are not given. I can't figure the totals for you guys as I have no idea if you used oil to cook the veggies or anything like that. If you didn't, DO! It's a good way to get in some fat.

The second day is a bit better, but all you need to do is just eat a bit more! You don't need to eat only 3 T lasagna, have 4. Or have 2 pieces of toast rather than an apple AND a pear (just have one fruit or the other).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the amount of mozzarella you're eating. You NEED the protein and fat in it, desperately, or you are not going to be able to get and stay pregnant.

We have some diet support threads and you can find links to them here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/67718-time-new-le-diet-support-thread.html There are LOTS of ideas!

[atomic sagebrush]

Also can someone tell me what is jump and dump ? I understand the jumping part but dump ? And when ? Straight after ? Or after a while ?

Also... what is CFR in frequency BD ?

Some sugar seems to have better result than none right ? (was watching the girl sway stats on GD) For DS3 I was on a really low diet (Similar to Dr Papa but without the cow mil - i was having lots of almond milk calcium and rice milk calcium and calcium supplement and sometimes goat milk yogourt) with ZERO sugar...So zero sugar, plus zero salt plus zero everything... god that was hard... and a baby boy in the end... but beautiful though :-)

Thanks,
Caroline

atomic tough love alert...

OLC, please listen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have been trying, and on diet for quite some time - starting with the French Diet and now on more of an LE Diet. Right? Plus, given your age, you need to get pregnant quickly. You have got to do what it takes to get pregnant now. This is when we start dropping things like J and D and CFR (which never worked anyway, the people who did it properly did not get pregnant, and the people who claimed to do CFR did it wrong, that is a junk statistic based on one attempt working since CFR was only ever done wiht one attempt, and should probably be taken out.) There are full directions for how I want you to do J and D in your plan.

I made a personalized sway plan for you that takes your personal situation into account, and rather than have you now go through our statistics and try all these things that did not work and cut odds of conception to nothing (making it take even LONGER for you to get pregnant) I want you to follow the stuff I put into the plan for you which is what will work FOR YOU. Please stop going over the stats. It does nothing to help you, I promise there is nothing in there that I have missed. I have way more information to go off of, in my mind and in my notes that I use to make the custom plans, than has ever been added to the stats by a factor of 100 times probably. The stats are for entertainment purposes only, and I have a full essay on why they just are not very helpful here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/43555-thoughts-stats.html

I stated in your plan I want you on full fat dairy only, whole grains rather than white bread, and for you to start off limiting empty carbs (such as sugar). This was to HELP YOUR SWAY. We have far better results with the type of diet I put you on than the one that has the sugar in it. (72% vs. 66% for the standard LE) I do not understand why you would then ditch that in favor of some very poorly defined statistics in which some people say they had "some sugar". The alternate diet gets BETTER results. Now, it may come to pass - and it's looking that way to me - that you simply can't eat enough without resorting to sugar. In that case we are going to have no choice but to have you eat sugar since you can't keep weight on without it. I mentioned in your plan that we may end up having to do that. But I want you to understand that the reason why we're doing that is NOT because of something in our stats results (we don't even KNOW what "a little" or "some" even means!! To some people that is a teaspoon, to others, a half-cup a day!) but because it is what is necessary FOR YOU to be able to get and stay pregnant without wasting away to nothing.

For now, till we get your diet sorted out, I do want you to continue eating sugar (if it's in the form of M and M's or TimTams or whatever, if that helps for now, let's keep going with it). It is my hope that over time we will be able to dial that back somewhat But I DO want to see you on whole grains and full fat dairy, no skim, starting right away.

Long story short, even though I put "no sugar" in your sway plan (for reasons that vastly outweigh anything you are going to find in the stats, so please stop using the stats instead of the plan I made you) since you are having so much trouble getting adequate calorie intake, we are going to drop that rule, have you keep in some sugar FOR NOW to be sure you don't waste away to nothing. But I do still absolutely want you to switch to whole grains, full fat dairy only (no skim at all) and over time we ~may~ be able to cut back more on sugar. Right now, it is clear to me you need the sugar to keep weight on, so don't drop it yet.

[Onelastchance]

Oh Yes yes yes doing exactly what you told... the CFR question was just that now with the deconfinement starting, I am finally having some more time to read around. First message you invited to read that stats link, so i finally took the time. My questions were just to better understand the conversations, but not going against your plan AT ALL!!!! :-) Not going over the stats, just finally had time to read it.

Sugar wise, I am really having almost none for most of the days. Week ends are harder, but week days, no sugar. I just realised i screwed up with my milo cup though! Angry with myself :-(

Dairy... i am only using full cream milk as you said. I don't have skim milk at home.

I haven't been using much asparthame is that bad ? :-( I feel very nauseous with it. Would edulcorant be similar ? I have erythritol (edulcobio) do you know anything about it? won't use it if you think it's not good.

Dropping the timing this month... ready to let go :-). Will keep doing the one attempt of course.

The jump and dump question, is just because i don't really get the dump part. Anyway I am doing the lying down like you said. It was just to understand the conversation. English i not my first language so sometimes I struggle a bit. Which made me read that part of my plan again. I think I asked before but when you say "wipe away excess" it's pushing the rest out ? Usually, I postpone toilet time as much as possible, sometimes all night...and don't push anything out.

I feel like Im asking a lot of questions, sorry Atomic :-).

I am getting much better with counting calories.

OLC

[atomic sagebrush]

Please ask as many questions as you have, that is what I'm here for. I am always happy to help people, it's just that I hate to see people who get a plan and then go over the statistics and make a totally different plan! It contributes to that "control freakish" feeling that may sway blue.

Aspartame is not necessary, I doubt it does anything, and larger amounts may even sway blue.

"Jump and dump" is really just meant to be a funny name. You don't have to push anything out, just get up and go to the bathroom and wipe off any semen on the outside.

[Onelastchance]

Thank you :-)

Now, urgent question, sorry Atomic... husband wants to eat mussels tonight!!! I read in the LE diet to try to avoid shell fish right ? Or it is ok if once in a while ? I am 7 days away from O... so no mussels will simply mean no mussels... i'll figure out something else :-)

[atomic sagebrush]

Within limits some shellfish is fine. Totally ok to have the mussels! The only reason there is any mention of shellfish is that there's an old wives tale where people are told to eat massive amounts of shellfish for daughters, and I want you guys to stick in the limits rather than eating "magic foods". Enjoy, they sound delish!

[Onelastchance]

Hi Atomic,

Thanks for reply. I finally didn't have the mussels, I wasn't sure when dinner time arrived so went on something else. But will do next week end.
Feeling depressed though, it was my sons birthday yesterday, I ordered a chocolate cake, I had a tiny piece yesterday, and it's sitting in my fridge and i'm serving pieces to everyone and dying to have some... but well. Also, CD 12 and nothing seems to be happening, ovulation will be late again this month and we are going away with the kids for the week end at the in law's and these will be the 3 crucial days if i ovulate late again :-(. Kids sleep in our room.

So totally depressed. I jut want to eat, i am constantly starving, been months and months (even if it easier on your diet), but just want to be pregnant and eat whatever i want and put some weight back on, I look like a ghost. And again, ovulation is playing me this month.

[atomic sagebrush]

Eat a piece of cake. You need the fat and calories, and like I was saying, it looks to me like you can't get enough calories without having some sugar now and then. I think you're going to have to keep going with some sugar, the M and M's, TimTams, a piece of cake now and then because you aren't able to get enough calories without it.

[Onelastchance]

Hmmm...M&M's and timtams, and nutella are no more happening at the moment... trying to stick to your plan as much as possible. But you are right, I feel like i keep eating, and i keep losing. It must very much be the not eating at all from 7pm to 12 or 1pm everyday. It's funny in the morning it's not hard at all. Once I have lunch, I crave so much... I feel super hungry all afternoon. Oh well, I'll have a piece of cake tomorrow :-). I managed to avoid it today. I do have the necessary fat in my diet.. with cheese and at least 1 yogurt a day, and a little milk in my coffee... so why is my ovulation going back to delaying mode ? :-( Anything else I can do to help that ?

[atomic sagebrush]

Add them back in. As I mentioned in the plan and in this thread, I wanted you to try for no sugar, and then we may need to add them in. Well, we need to add them in! Some people can't get by with just the alternate diet and you are apparently in that category, so please adjust the plan accordingly now since I find you are not getting enough calories to continue ovulating.

[atomic sagebrush]

Are you getting 50-60 g protein and fat not counting the protein and fat in fruit and veg?

[Onelastchance]

Update:

Why do I keep having the timing wrong?!!!

Cycle 1 : BD CD 13, O on CD 16
Cycle 2 : BD CD 12, O on CD 17
Cycle 3: BD CD 15, O on CD 18
Cycle 4 : BD CD 14, O on CD 17
Cycle 5 : BD CD 12, O on CD 15
Cycle 6 : BD CD 13, O on CD 16
Cycle 7 (this month) : BD on CD 16 (thinking, not trying cut off anymore) and O on CD 19!!!

Seriously, it's like nature is finding its own way to make me ovulate 3 or 4 days everytime after BD and it changes everymonth. And yet, I use Ovulation tests. Now, this month, maybe you can help me Atomic :

Chances to bd were either CD 14 or CD 16 (away with the kids - all sleeping in 1 room!). So I opted for CD 16 closer to O or even through O. Did Ovulation test from day 10 to day 16. Used my last of CD 16 and it was much darker. Not positive yet, but getting really dark. So BD'd on CD 16 and oh miracle it worked! (Cause I cannot decide when BD will be successful - DH has low sex drive). Had EWCM CD 16, thought it was a good deal. CD 17, EWCM again, but didn't want to risk a second attempt. CD 18 yesterday EWCM again in the morning and thought it was drying up last night, so didn't BD. And this morning, really thought O was over, and here I am feeling really wet even though I can't see any EWCM, but the wet feeling is here. So I am guessing O is for today ? And I can't BD tonight!!!! :-( DH has huge presentation tomorrow, and colleagues are coming over for work, they might work until midnight. Atomic, what do you know about CM ? Is the wet feeling really indicating ovulation ? This is a very late ovulation (CD 19 on 27 day cycle). God, I am really getting depressed with irregular cycle.

[atomic sagebrush]

You need to go to every 4 days. That's the only thing you can do here. (although this month was weird because you guys were away.)

But that having been said, it is still entirely possible you ovulated earlier than you think. Many of us notice that wetness even a day or two after ovulation. With my daughter I had EWCM for a couple days after O (and my O was confirmed by ultrasound so this was a for sure thing)

Go ahead and have another attempt today. Yes, it may be too late, but maybe not, and CD 16 for a CD 20 or 21 O is not going to end in conception.

[Onelastchance]

Hey,

I just wanted to come with an update. I think Im calling it a "quit". Opk only became positive this morning (cycle day 20), so I am clearly delaying ovulation more and more. We've DTD on day 14, and DH has not been able to "complete" since then... it just doesn't work :-(. I managed to make him "complete" on the day before yesterday and inserted myself with a seringe... but I know chances are almost nil. I think I am getting really close to depression now. Went from size 38 to size 34 in a year, and I am really close to a size 32.

I am turning 40 next month... so it's now been 12 months of missing the timing, it;s really like ALL odds are against me.

I guess, I'd rather have 3 boys with a mother, rather than 4 without, I don't think this all very healthy. I am sooo depressed, and I am not sure how I will ever manage to accept that I now have to let go.

I desperately tried to DTD last night, and again this morning... finally hubby left for work feeling totally diminished, and me totally depressed... No chance do I get to try again tonight it won't work.

:-(

[Northernsparkle]

Hey, I don’t often come on here anymore as I’m so busy with 5 kids but happened to see your post and it really struck a chord so just wanted to give you some reassurance.
I was in your situation except with 4 boys and me approaching 40 and DH approaching 50 and so ridiculously desperate for a little girl. DH had agreed but as soon as I had my iud removed we starting having the same issues - he was suddenly either too tired, ill or couldn’t finish.
I was beyond depressed and constantly in tears and our marriage began to suffer.
I could see that he desperately didn’t want to disappoint me but the added pressure of knowing exactly when we needed to dtd was making it impossible for him. Then I would become angry and frustrated and he’d feel even more inadequate and even more desperate to be able to do what was needed of him. It was a vicious circle.
I decided I had to take the pressure off and told him we would stop trying and just see what happened. In reality I carried on as before and was strict with my diet and opks. I made sure we had time alone so that we could do e4d even if it meant booking a day off work or waking up super early. Instead of being stressed and reminding him how important dtd was I made sure we had lots of affection that didn’t have to lead to dtd and reminded him how good a dad he was to the boys and how proud I was of him as a husband. Basically I had to rebuild his confidence whilst secretly keeping a tight grip on my sway but going it alone. It was tough for a while but I was amazed how quickly it worked. We were soon doing e4d with none of the issues he was having before. Inbetween e4d or outside of my fertile window I would make sure I made him finish in other ways too so that it took the focus of always having to be inside of me.
At first it was a very conscious switch from feeling like he was to blame for my desperate state of mind to reminding myself that he was feeling like the responsibility for my happiness was all on his shoulders.
Sorry for the long reply but reading your post I just really felt for you and wanted to offer you an alternative to giving up which is exactly how I was feeling.
That was 2 and a half years ago and we now have a beautiful, mischievous 15 month old daughter who has completed our family and the relief of not having to deal with gender disappointment anymore is indescribable.
I wish more than anything that all the ladies on here get to feel that too.
Sending you a virtual hug and the strength to give that final push to follow your dream. I am proof that it really is possible even when it feels like you have reached the end of the line.
Hope this helps a little x


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atomic sagebrush]

I am so sorry you guys are struggling.

Is there any way you can do some sort of compromise where you ease up on diet and then just accept that whatever happens, happens?? that has been a kind of transition for many of us. We decide, well, this is probably not going to happen, and try to move on, but because the door is still a little bit open it isn't so soul crushing and we can give ourselves time to get our head and heart right before closing the door forever?

[Onelastchance]

Thank you so much for your reply... I read it days ago, but I was feeling so down, I couldn't get myself to take the time to discuss it all... But after a few days here I am. Still feeling so low.

Thank you for sharing your story with me. And I am soo glad you managed to get your baby girl, I am starting to really think this is never going to happen to me which really gets me depressed. Life is not fair. I lost my mum suddenly I was 17, and since then I have been waiting to have children of my own to fill somehow that huge hole in my soul. It took me years to meet someone with all the stress of never having kids. I finally got married at 34, MC at 34, 1st boy aat 35, 2nd boy at 36, MC again, 3rd boy at 38, and trying since then. I do not have a sister, I have one brother but a weird sister in law and 10 years younger, we do not have much in common so my brother I don't see him much. No god mother, or aunts that Im really close to... That leaves me with a dad (an incredible one :-)), a brother, a husband (who I consider as my miracle), 3 boys... no girls whatsoever in my life and that makes miss my mum even more. Also, I dreamt of giving my daughter her name... my way of making her live some more. Anyway, my doctor told me a daughter would never give me a mother back... of course I know that... I/m not crazy :-). But it would be life giving me mother-daughter relationship no matter how different that turns out to be. I ser all around me girls complaining about mother in laws, and I think that's all im ever going to be.. a mother in law who needs to ask permission to hold her grand children. Ok you all, don't shout at me, I know that can be different... I am hurting right now so be nice :-). I know many people cannot have kids, and I feel for them, and I am sooooo proud of my boys make NO mistakes. They are my universe...but why is that hole so deep and big and so empty ?

I have a female cousin, younger but who I love very much... And yet here she comes, 26 years old, gets married. Falls pregnant no MC, gives birth to a son, cries a little she wanted a girl, Stays at her mom's for help, has 2 sisters to share things with, falls pregnant when baby boy is 3, no MC again... and oh surprise... baby girl... ! How can anyone just be so lucky ? I love her, but she gave birth 2 weeks ago, and I cannot see her baby, I cannot share her happiness, and I feel like an aweful person. Sorry for all that, I feel horrible, and I do feel grateful for what life gave me.. SO grateful. But why can't I keep following my dream too ? Also both my parents got cancer so a non healthy diet freaks me out too. Cow milk for me is the last thing I want to be having, then how could I get that calcium. Thanks to Atomic I managed to let that go (the calcium requirement). One thing I am having a tough time to let go is timing. All my boys were conceived 1 attempt, night before O... third one on diet. So I can't keep thinking why would another shot be different ? But I am working on it.

What was your timing ? E4d worked for you then... Was it close to ovulation ?

Sorry for the late message everyone, and sorry for sending negative vibes.. It will get better.

[Onelastchance]

Hay Atomic, thank you for your message.

Yes I am trying to let go, but it is SO hard... how can anyone just let go a dream ? I feel like I could try for a few more months. But hubby is giving up, and is thinking now it's too late and doesn't want baby 4 anymore. What if the baby is not normal ? Whaf if you die ? What if its boy number 4? And could I take the responsibility all by myself...? Anyway, I'll see how next cycle go if we succeed in DTD at all...

Anyway I have a few questions :

- Sperm sorting is available here... Now I know you don't believe in it but what if I had a shot ? It would help in the 1 attempt, in the DTD problem, I ccould keep doing the diet... but husband is not too keen for the moment... But if he was, maybe that could help. I would never do the invitro one though.
- I feel like not using clomid or femara is playing against me. But because of family breast cancer, Dr are against me taking any hormones. Could I still get a girl without it ?
- I have a very short luteal phase which I suppoe means I have low progesterone... Isn't low progesterone a boy sway ? And please don't say low progesterone means high oestrogen, because to me high oestrogen is dangerous for breast cancer!

I am so confused right now and so tired too.

[Onelastchance]

I am really thinking too much aren't I ?

[atomic sagebrush]

You know, my husband said all that stuff too, and at some point I realized it was him just not wanting another baby and he invoked my health and safety out of his own reason. Not trying to cause trouble in your marriage at all, but I do want you to advocate for what YOU want and not assume that's he's ~necessarily~ saying that out of the goodness of his heart. Maybe he is, but maybe not, so don't walk away without advocating for your own wishes if it's something you will live to regret.

It absolutely is always possible to have a 4th boy. You guys do need to accept that going in of course even though I know how difficult it is.

I don't think you should be doing one attempt any more anyway so if you're still doing that we need to revisit. This is why I put in your plan that I wanted you to be doing the e4d method after having the one attempt (and honestly, I would LOVE to see you drop your cutoff stuff now too and just do e4d)

I think that what you need to do is about the polar opposite of doing sperm sorting. Your husband is not on board with this, he's not going to be on board with sperm sorting, and just giving it to you straight, chasing after stuff that doesn't work and is super invasive may end up wrecking your relationship. You need to let go of all the stuff you were trying to get him to do and just see what happens. He may be way more cooperative if you are able to stop pressuring him to do things a certain way and I just don't see how sperm sorting is going to do anything other than make matters worse.

Yes, you can absolutely get a girl without Clomid and Femara. I did! Girls are conceived every day without those medicines.

Short LP actually is often caused by low ESTROGEN. At about 7 days past ovulation the body is meant to release a big surge of estrogen to help maintain the lining long enough for a baby to implant, and send a signal to the body to keep making progesterone. So in many cases (and indeed, MOST cases on this site) what happens is people, particularly those who are naturally very thin, diet too strictly or are exercising a lot, can't make enough estrogen for that to happen. Regardless of their progesterone levels without that secondary estrogen surge, their lining sloughed off and their LP was short. The odds are quite high (indeed I'd bet money on it) that you have low estrogen, not high, and that is what is causing your short LP.

Low progesterone swaying blue was one man's theory. It never made sense, was trying to prove that timing worked (which has been absolutely debunked), and was never tested with any blood tests or anything to prove it. We have seen SO MANY CASES of women who always had perfect LP having boy after boy (ME!) and women with short LP having girls, and then gobs of people who went onto LE Diet and developed short LP and had girls, and other women who went onto the HE Diet and their LP normallized and they had boys, that it simply cannot be true. Our experiences which are numbering into thousands of people here are just not at all bearing that out.

[atomic sagebrush]

I am really thinking too much aren't I ?

Yes LOL but that's what I am here for. :) I can help put some of these concerns at rest for you, hopefully.

[Onelastchance]

Yes LOL but that's what I am here for. :) I can help put some of these concerns at rest for you, hopefully.

Thank you. You know I love reading your messages. It gives me some king of support, leaving me feeling less lonely, even though I know I am alone on that journey :-). But it gives me a sense of being normal, and gives me hope somehow.

I am doing the e4d... but again, i should say I am trying. Never know when hubby will be ok. He's more a every 5-6 days person... but i try the e4d. Waiting for AF to arrive in a few days now.

Another question :
I now have more time for myself. To remind you I am off exercise since we decided I didnt have anough time during lock down to do it well. So I am off exercise. Should I go back on cardio this cycle or stay on no exercise ?

Thanks :-)

[atomic sagebrush]

even every 5-6 days can work so if it's that or nothing, take every 5-6 days!!!

I am inclined for you to stay off exercise. You're already thin, you're having disruptions in your cycle, I just think you need to preserve your energy for continuing ovulation.

[Onelastchance]

Hey Atomic,

So here I am ... back ... ! I didn't give up on diet, and even though I am making sure to get enough calories, I am still losing weight but slowly... I think it's the skipping breakfast part. But anyway, I think skipping breakfast is not bad for health, so I am carrying on.

I did kind of let things go a bit this month. No testing until day 14... no temperature. I've just been watching for EW thing, and doing e4d which surprisingly is going ok this month. Dtd on cd5, cd 9, cd 13...next one would be cd 17 which would be a good thing since i usually ovulate on cd 18-19... but hey, as always, didn't work that way.

We BD CD13 at 10pm... thought this was just rehearsal. I lied down, until next morning. Next morning, had a bit of "discharge" so thought all sperm out. Didn't matter since still far away from ovu. Had no EW that I could see anyway. CD 14 evening eggwhite, and and very sore boobs, so thought I would check. I had a lot of water, so it was very diluted urine but very negative test as I expected. This morning CD 15 did a test, just to check with second urine, and oh god... dark positive ovulation test!!!! So now...
DTD CD 13, positive CD 15 early morning with 2nd urine and after drinking water, which means I should ovulate CD 16...now my dilemna... if I ovulate 24 hours later, which means CD 16 morning, its a good thing... but if i ovulate late CD16, its going to be full 3 days after... If i have another attempt tonight and ovulate tomorrow morning, it's clearly a 2 attempt...I'm not sure what to do.

Based on previous experiences (only 2 months that i m sure with ultrasound help), I ovulated following day around 6pm after positive OPK...but this morning was quite dark (darker that my usual first OPK)... Is it the same pattern everymonth or can it change ? I mean do I always ovulate same amount of time after OPK, or can be sooner some months, and later for other months...

I'm really hesitating because if we have another go tonight, it would be late since we have a wedding... and I bet husband wont be up to it...

Basically, if I dont have another go, at best it would be 2 or 2.5 days cut off, at worst 3 days cut off... what to I do ?

Very very weird though, I've had not EG except last night, and no feeling of "wetness" - just very sore boobs and sore under my arms like i usually am hen i get closer to O and period.

Please let me know what you think.

OLC

[Onelastchance]

Just wanted to remind, this is my first "proper" attemps at e4d, husband could not finish in the last couple of cycles. Before that, several months of trying the one attempt, but got wrong timing everytime

[atomic sagebrush]

If you're still losing weight then you are not getting enough calories. YOU MUST EAT MORE. If you think you need breakfast, eat it. We have fine results even with eating breakfast.

I want you to have an attempt. You're already doing the e4d further apart than I would prefer, so please please have an attempt right away if you haven't already. This is NOT two attempts.

You can't tell your pattern of ovulation based on what happened in previous months. It just doesn't tell you what will happen in the future. So you may still be a day or two out from your ovulation. We just don't know.

so if you guys weren't able to attempt last night, try today. And when in doubt, have attempt! This message came through late my time and I didn't see it till just now, so I couldn't reply any sooner. Don't ever wait for an answer from me. You need to do whatever it takes to get pregnant now.

[Onelastchance]

Unfortunately, that didn't work. We were too tired after wedding, my husband couldn't get in the mood. So this is it, again, like every single month.

I am confused by your message : you say we are already doing the e4d too far apart than you would prefer, but isn't e4d every four days ? So we're supposed to dtd every 4 days right ? Which what I had been doing this month ... that's not right ?

Another question : I haven't been tempting this month... except for this morning. My opks were perfect positives yesterday, so I was expecting my tempt to be low today to be on ovulation day. Since my first positive was at 6am yesterday, I thought maybe if I ovulate even 36 hours later, that would be today, and less than 3 days since last attempt... but temperature was 36.5...normal... no dip, no spike... :-( I read everywhere how adequate tempting is... and yet, would there be anyway I can still ovulate today but not see a dip in the morning ? Or is it more likely that I will ovulate tomorrow...we are sleeping at in law's tonight :-(, so that's not happening. And I am guessing tomorrow night would be too late.

Has anyone had experience with tempting ? Do you always have a dip on O day and a rise on following day ?

Last month, I had a significant rise less than 48 hours after surge but had not tempted the day before.

This is so hard, and this was my last attempt as a 39 years old :-(

[atomic sagebrush]

You need to still have an attempt ASAP in case you haven't ovulated.

We have two ways to count the e4d. One is every 72 hours (and that is what I want you guys to do here.) This IS every four days because people count it as Day 1 (attempt) Day 2 (skip), Day 3 (skip), Day 4 (attempt.) Other people stretch this another day to every 96 hours. But most of us do the 72 hour approach, and it doesn't need to be that exact number of hours it's just that is how to count the days.

You can't just randomly take a temp, it doesn't mean anything, but I still strongly urge you to have an attempt ASAP and please from here on in always have attempt, when in doubt have attempt because I can't always be on here to answer every day. Today very possibly not too late for an attempt, please have one at the first available opportunity.

[Onelastchance]

Thanks Atomic,

Did have an attempt last night (sunday) but from what i think, that as far too late.

I think I ovulated on Saturday 8pm from what I felt, 36 hours after positive opk. Temp stayed same though 36.6 yesterday, 36.6 this morning. Very dry since then. But no ultrasound to confirm, so in doubt, dtd again last night.

If I ovulated on Saturday night, that would be a complete 3 day cut off :-( (72 hours)... chances are tiny tiny right ? :-(

[atomic sagebrush]

We can't know when you ovulated though. now if you see a big temp rise tomorrow it may be that you will have more info, but for now we just can't tell.

[Onelastchance]

AF came this morning... 3 days late. I had really sore boobs, cramping a lot, I really thought something was up... but no :-(.

Atomic, I had a few cheating days. I voluntarily gave myself a bit more food to compensate for all that diet and weight loss. Had a couple of toast and a fruit in the morning for 4 days (at about 9:30 am), let myself have a piece or 2 of chocolate after each lunch and diner for a few days. Didn't go overboard, but cheated a bit to give my body a bit more fuel. Is it going to hurt my sway really bad ? :-( It felt really good to have a full stomach though :-(. But been back to "serious mode" for the past 4 days.

I'm really starting to think it's never going to happen now. With me turning 40 this month, it's like the end of the world, end of my dream... too risky for a down syndrome baby, baby will have old parents, too risky for my health and so on and so on...i'm feeling i've hurt my body for so long trying on that diet (this diet is healthy, but Dr Papa's really really strict), and all that continuous deception with not being able to DTD on the days we have to, and seeing AF arriving everytime. My eggs must be too old...

It's been a tough year...

[atomic sagebrush]

Remember OLC - I have wanted you to loosen up on diet!! So yes I think that's just fine! In fact I really really urge you NOT to go back to strict mode.

I had my daughter at 42 and she will be eight years old tomorrow, and is perfectly healthy. I know they say so many scary things but they are based on very old data from the 1600's!! More and more women are getting pregnant over 40 and while chances of chromosomal abnormalities do rise the vast majority of babies are born perfectly healthy. We have lots of women on this site and elsewhere who have healthy babies over 40.

[Onelastchance]

Hi Atomic,

I hope this email finds you well...
After 15 cycles, I got my BFP today at 14 dpo...

I felt I was pregnant, but didn't want to test because then I would start obsessing about indications that it is indeed a boy.

I tested with a 25miu/ml test at 2pm today. It was positive...not faint, but not dark either... which leaves me thinking it definitely is a boy since if it was a girl it should have been much darker at 14dpo, since HCG is suposedly higher for baby girls...

I do not want to have a blood test, I will overanalyse the low HCG... I did that for 3 months with my 3rd boy... infact I so believe in that now that it was true for me last time...

I've seen recent researches confirming that again..

So, my question is... what do you know about it all ? Have you seen any truth in all of this ?

Conceived night before positive opk, with a less strict diet since I have lost so much wait, but still skipping breakfast and not snacking. I bet another baby boy on the way!

Anyway, We have to get through the first 3 months first, then see what happens. It just feels REALLY good to wake up and have a HUGE bowl of cereals! No more skipping breakfast!

Please let me know if you know anything about that HCG level,
Thanks,

OLC

[atomic sagebrush]

OMG huge congrats!!

First of all, you may have miscalculated the number of DPO you were. That happens ALL THE TIME.

Secondly, HCG is only higher in girl pregnancies on average. On average means an average across the population like height. There are absolutely women who are 6 feet tall and men who are 5 foot 4 and you can't guess gender on that basis alone. There are even taller women like Gwendolyn Christie. And most people fall in the mid range. So lets say you have a person who is 5 foot 8. You cannot know at all if they're a man or woman! HCG works just the same way.

Thirdly, you can't tell your HCG levels in the blood on the basis of your pregnancy test anyway. There are too many things that go into the darkness of a pregnancy test. Starting with the individual variations of the tests themselves, how much dye they have in them, that kind of thing, and the concentration of your urine, which varies wildly even with FMU. And most important, it matters how much HCG you had to start with. Women can have anything from 0-5 HCG when they are not pregnant, and then once you conceive, the levels double. So depending on where you start from it goes like this:

0, 1, 2, 4, 8, 16

versus

5, 10, 20, 40, 80, 160

So at the exact same point in gestation some women can have 10x the HCG as another woman and you just cannot tell from a pregnancy test, OR even a blood test where you are on the continuum.