2 miscarriages in a row :(

[sunflowertravels]

It's with a heavy heart that I once again write a post like this 4 and a half months later. I miscarried yesterday at 10 weeks :( I had an ultrasound at 6 weeks 4 days and baby had a heart beat and looked good. Everything was on track as should be. At 10 weeks I started having some very dark brown discharge. I called my doctor to ask about a scan (I had one scheduled for 12 weeks but wanted to go right away just incase something was wrong) and she was a bit reluctant as it wasn't bright red. She eventually agreed when I insisted and two I went in that afternoon. Sadly I found out my baby stopped growing shortly after my 6 week 4 day scan. I am devastated :( As in many miscarriages, they have no idea why it happened and if anything, my doctor was very shocked.

I had another miscarriage back in December at 9 weeks. I went for my 8 week scan and all they saw was an 8 week gestational sac and a yolk sac. That's it. No embryo. They asked me to come back in a week for another scan, but I already knew the prognosis was grim. I have two sons (2 and 4) and at 8 weeks they were active and bouncing around. Sure enough I went back at 9 weeks and all that was there was the yolk sac and only enough the gestational sac had grown again to 9 weeks. But no embryo/fetal or heart beat. I was told it was a blighted ovum.

We were so confident, including my doctor, that my next pregnancy would be successful. My doctor said the chances of a repeat miscarriage weas low and I have always conceived on the first try and have had two healthy pregnancies, I feel like I got my hopes up too high, because here I am experiencing my second loss. I am now terrified of a repeat.
Oh course, and I know I shouldn't have...I have gone down a google hole and have made my head spin even worse. That I now have a high chance of it happening again and only 2 percent of women who have one miscarriage with have anther. And other articles that my chance of another one is now 40%...the list goes on (I think I need to stay off google).

I don't know if there is anyone here who is very knowledgable on miscarriages and the different types. As mentioned, I was told my December miscarriage was a blighted ovum since there was no embryo ever seen or detected but a growing gestational sac (my body did not clue in there was no baby). A yolk sac was present but never any fetal pole/embryo. I have read conflicting information on the internet that a blighted ovum is only a gestational sac and can't have the yolk sac and others say that sometimes it can have a yolk sac, just not a fetal pole/heart beat, and be classified a blighted ovum. My doctor called it a blighted ovum. I ask this because if that is the case, then my two miscarriages would be classified as different. One being a blighted ovum and the other being a 'first trimester' miscarriage (as my doctor put it). With my first miscarriage the sac kept growing. With my recent one, the sac stopped growing when the baby heart stopped. My doctor seemed to be positive they weren't "the same'. I'm not an expert in any way so I'm truly unsure.

Has anyone here had healthy, easy pregnancies and then gone on to have a couple miscarriages before having another healthy baby again? I recently turned 37 and my husband will be turning 38. I have two health boys ages 2 and 4. For all 4 of my pregnancies (the boys and the miscarriages) I have conceived on the first try. Would my egg quality have any baring on this? (like went down hill since I had my 2 year old). Or could there be any underlining issues for two consecutive miscarriages? (like an infection in the uterus?). Am I at a point where I need a fertility specialist for testing or pregnancy monitoring? (I've been with my family doctor). I am wondering if I can emotionally go through this again...

I apologise for all the questions. I am just grieving and broken hearted and looking for answers (that I may never get) and hopefully some light at the end of this dreary tunnel. I appreciate any feedback. Thank you kindly ladies

[mommymachine]

I am so so sorry this happened to you again. I have had 3 miscarriages. 2 were between my 4th and 5th child, and 1 was between my 5th and 6th child. The last one was my furthest miscarriage, I think around 6/7 weeks. I went and had an ultrasound and the baby had a heartbeat, but it was slow, and apparently a lot if not most of those babies don’t make it. I went back 9/10 days later and the baby had died.

My youngest child was conceived 3 months later, a completely healthy little girl :)


3 blue 3 pink

Swaying blue in May!

[sunflowertravels]

Thank you so much for your reply mommy machine. That makes me so happy to hear that you have been able to go on to have healthy babies after your losses. I truly hope there is some hope for me too. I am sending my blue dust your way and will keep my fingers crossed you get a health baby boy :)

[Lailanela]

I'm so sorry you have to go through this for the second time. I'd say stop reading on Google, it will help you. I am just the same and always try to find some information. But it's better not to. It really is not representative. I know it's hard but it helps. ❤
And if it helps you in any way: I've had two miscarriages not in a row but still. And I was quite young, but it still happened and for some time I thought it was my fault or that I am cursed. But I overcame those feelings, these things just happen. Some women don't miscarry and some do a few times. But that does not mean you can't have a healthy baby. I got a healthy baby after both miscarriages. I think it happens most of the time. My cousin also had two miscarriages in a row after having two boys. It was really hard. But in the end she had her baby girl.
I wish you all the luck in the world. ❤

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh no I'm so terribly sorry to read this.

You do not have a high chance of it happening again. The two miscarriages were totally different causes and I agree with your doctor. You just had terrible luck in having two completely different and random losses but the odds are good that it won't happen again.

Miscarriages are related to egg quality, but the thing is even young women with great egg quality make bad eggs now and then. Other losses are caused by an issue with the particular sperm that fertilized it, or something going wrong very early on in pregnancy. Honestly, so many things have to go perfectly right in order for a pregnancy to occur, the strange thing is not that it goes wrong sometimes, the strange thing is how often it works. It's just very easy for small things to happen that end up with the pregnancy not developing properly. As we age, the chances that a small thing goes wrong do increase, but it is astronomically unlikely that you go from having all 100% perfect eggs to being infertile in 2 years.

If you had an infection in the uterus usually there would be other symptoms and the doctor will be on the lookout for that.

They can do some testing, but they usually don't do it till there have been three losses (two losses are not that unlikely) I don't think a fertility specialist is in any way warranted at this point.

Please let me know how I can help.

[sunflowertravels]

Thank you so much Lailanela for your kind words and well wishes. They mean so much during this very painful time. I am trying my best to stay off Google and take the time I need to grieve and process everything. This has been a more difficult miscarriage then my last. I lost way too much blood over the weekend and my blood pressure plummeted causing to be very dizzy that I could no longer stand. I am finally stabilising, but it was very scary in the moment. Taking everything one small step and one day at a time.
I am truly sorry to hear that you too have experienced losses. It's nothing I would ever wish upon anyone. I am truly praying that when the time is right and we are ready to try again, that we are able to have a healthy baby. As much as I'd love a daughter one day, I would welcome another baby boy in a heart beat.
Thank you again for your reply and encouraging, kind words :)

[sunflowertravels]

Thank you Atomic for your response and kind words of encouragement. I am trying my best to be hopeful for the future. I am too looking at it was terrible luck with the twi miscarriages that appears quite different. While I am 37, I don't see how all my eggs suddenly went south, when I had two perfectly healthy baby boys no problems at 33 and just about 35 (he was born 2 months before my birthday). I get pregnant so easily, so that has never been my issue.
I was wondering if you had any insight in to the following...
My family doctor says when we are ready, we can try any time after having one period. She also said a fertility doctor would tell us to try right away. My Naturopathic doctor has told me I should wait a minimum of 3 cycles before trying again. She wants to me take some supplements, such as CoQ10 and oocyte, that are supposed to help "improve egg quality". She said its because an egg takes 3 months to mature.
What are your thoughts on this? Have you seen women take these supplements and have "improved" egg quality and to try again? I feel like even if I take her recommended supplements and go on to have a healthy baby, I will never actually know if they worked or if it was just better luck this time. It makes me worry if I tried sooner that three months, that I would be at risk of a "bad egg' again. I waited 2 cycles this past pregnancy from my miscarriage in December.
I am truly not sure what to do as I hear and read so many conflicting things. I know at the end of the day, it's our choice on what to do, but any insight would be greatly appreciated :)
Or if there are any ladies on here who have been through something similar, I would love to hear from you, if you'd like to share :)
Thank you so much!

[atomic sagebrush]

Your naturopath is wrong. Waiting 3 months or more to try has been associated with lower fertility rates https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/pregnancy-after-miscarriage-when-to-try-again/ and while this may be coincidental it is best for you to try as long as you've had one period. You are not more likely to make a bad egg if you try soon. That's completely untrue. The ONLY reason women were ever told to wait was not for medical reasons, but for psychological ones. Doctors used to have very paternalistic attitudes about women's pregnancies and our mental resiliency, and forced them to wait after losses for absolutely no reason. Sadly, some of these beliefs are still carried on to this very day.

You can absolutely start Coq10 but none of the supplements are magically preventative of a loss. It is really a massive step in the wrong direction to delay trying when there has been evidence that trying sooner actually yields significantly higher rates of conception, in favor of taking some supplements that in many cases do little to nothing. You can see this for yourself on fertility sites, where many of the women are taking large amounts of supplements and not conceiving anyway. These supplements are not magic miscarriage prevention pills.

Can you please let me know what supplements the naturopath is advising?? Many of the things they have people take are worse than nothing.

[sunflowertravels]

The naturopath believes that in those 3 months I have time to "improve my egg health", because eggs take 90 to mature. They believe by me taking Ubiquinol Coq10, folate and melatonin, as well as a healthy diet, I can improve the health of my eggs for pregnancy, but it will take a minimum of 9 months. I conceive easily (that's never been my issue) but they want to see if they can improve my egg health. Do you believe egg health can be improved by doing so? That's why they want me to wait 3 periods.
Thank you again for your insight and response Atomic :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I understand the rationale they're using, but like I said it makes no sense to take some supplements that will probably help very little (you can find entire websites full of women taking all these supplements both for natural conceptions and IVF and they are not getting pregnant/are not getting good eggs for retrieval with IVF. Supplements are just not the magical things that some claim that they are). If it was easy to "improve egg health" there would not be millions of women struggling with fertility because these supplements are known about by everyone on fertility sites, most people take them, and they're just not magic pregnancy pills. I so very much wish they were, but they aren't.

So to me, it makes absolutely no sense to delay when we have data that indicates delaying can possibly lower your chances of getting pregnant again, chasing this myth of "improving egg quality". This is especially true for you because your losses were totally unrelated and one of them may not even have been egg quality. It may have been sperm or a random chance error that happened very early on in development for no reason at all. It very well may have been that your eggs are great quality and then you got the random chance bad luck that even very young women can get (after all, even 20 year olds can have miscarriages).

You can work towards improving egg quality without waiting around because for all we know, you may not even get pregnant the first month or even two. And there will still be benefits from that. This idea that if you don't do anything for a full 90 days is really rather silly. There is not some switch that gets flipped at that point if you do everything exactly so that makes a healthy egg. If you are working towards better egg quality even for a few weeks it will still help!

I would not have you take melatonin. Melatonin during pregnancy may be unsafe for the fetus according to animal studies and we do not know how long these effects last in the body. (and it is 1000% NOT PROVEN SAFE, anyone who says it is is fibbing. It is not adequately studied in anyone. Every reliable source says not enough is known to advocate it during pregnancy.) You can't just take it and stop taking it at BFP, either, because your body needs some in early pregnancy to sustain the pregnancy and going from taking a sky high dose to taking none may contribute to miscarriage. You must wean off it slowly, and that then lengthens the amount of time it is in your system. The only people I recommend taking melatonin are those who are doing egg retrieval where the eggs will be frozen and then implanted later, giving them time to wean off the melatonin when not pregnant. Anyone who is trying naturally or having IVF transfer done the same month as egg retrieval, I do not recommend it.

Ubiquinol and folate are fine, but they're no magic bullets. No matter if you took them for 90 days on the button, they are not guaranteed to prevent miscarriage - I wish it was as easy as just taking a couple pills, I really do, but there are hundreds of people just on this site alone who took them and still had losses. It is NOT WORTH delaying to "let them work" because it's very obvious they are not magic miscarriage preventatives.

One thing I would definitely recommend is for you to switch to a lower carb (but not very low carb) diet with more healthy protein and fat like South Beach, Perfect Health Diet, or Protein Power Plan. If you want a sway-friendly diet that fits in this category you can use the atomic fertility diet here (5 from the top): https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html. Drop sugar and white refined grains entirely (many can tolerate pasta since it's higher protein, and white rice if you really cannot stand the whole grain versions of these things). Use full fat dairy ONLY, no skim. Eat healthy fat like olive oil and coconut oil instead of other vegetable oils. And do 30-45 minutes of exercise 3-5 days a week if you aren't already (up this to 60 minutes 4+ days a week if you're hoping to sway pink)

I would wait one cycle and then try. Waiting one cycle will allow any products of conception to be eliminated and give you a "fresh start" basically. But there's no point to waiting 3. It doesn't accomplish anything and may hurt your chances.

[sunflowertravels]

Thank you, as always, Atomic for your quick and detailed replies. I greatly appreciate the time you take to respond. I can tell that you sincerely care for the women here on this forum and how you genuinely want nothing but the best for them and to help <3

I believe at this point, my husband and I will TTC again when we feel emotoinally ready. With doctors saying one thing and ND's saying another and things you read on line...its overwhelming. Last time we waited two cycles because that's when I felt mentally and emotionally ready. Not sue if this time we'll wait just the one or more. As you said, there is no magic pill. My next egg released could be perfectly healthy. Its hard to say. I don't want the false hope that taking supplements for 3 months will give me the perfect egg in 3 months. I have beeb asking myself if you can actually truly improve the quality of your eggs, or if they just are what they are as we age.
I want to ask about the lower carb diet (in which I am totally up for). I have been vegetarian for 2 years now, with the odd bit salmon or tuna here and there. My main source of protein comes from eggs, nuts/seeds and tofu. Would it still be possible to do a lower carb diet as a vegetarian using your atomic fertility diet? I would still like to sway pink, however my main priority is for a healthy baby and pregnancy. One attempt and 60 minutes of cardio comes easily for me. I often do more than 60 mins. Cardio is a stress relief for me. The diet will be a challenge (I am finding, like many others, working from home now and watching the kids and not being able to go anywhere because off COVID19 to be stressful and I admit we are all eating more and lots of carbs) but I will do the best I can for my health and the heath of * hopefully * our future baby. Would you suggest 12 weeks on the diet? or would 8 be okay? I have not been doing anything near the LE diet since February.
My doctor has recently put me on iron supplements that I need to take for the next 2 months. I lost too much blood during my last miscarriage and my blood pressure has been very low and I've had horrible headaches. I hope the iron is okay. Does B 12 sway blue? My Naturopath recommended I take Vitamin D drops, but I know they sway blue, so I'm not sure what to do.

One more question. Do you think it would be worth me having my thyroid checked? I have read studies that women having hypothyroidism have a much higher miscarriage risk. I had it tested after mat second son but not sure if things can change in 2 and a half years. I love my family doctor but I find when it comes to testing, I really have to beg to get blood work done.

Thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions :) I hope you're keeping safe and healthy during these uncertain times <3

[atomic sagebrush]

Above all else that is what I think is best. :heart:

It absolutely is still possible to do a vegetarian diet with higher protein/lower carb intake, particularly with eggs. It's never going to be as low carb as a meat-containing diet, but there is also data that eating more vegetable-based foods can also help fertility! Exercise also dramatically improves your body's ability to tolerate carbs so since you're exercising you can eat more carbs than a similar person without them having the same deleterious effect.

I would have a couple eggs a day, tofu or soy 3x a week (I'd be cautious having massive amounts of soy), legumes, nuts, whole grains, seitan, that kind of thing.

Any amount of time on diet is fine. For egg quality I do not believe it requires the full 12 weeks to see improvement, plus I also believe that higher blood sugar can have other negative effects for pregnancy without being egg quality related and a change in diet can work to prevent that immediately. I believe this type of diet will still sway pink.

I ABSOLUTELY want you to get your thyroid checked. A blighted ovum is not the manifestation I tend to see thyroid-related losses (thyroid tends to be more along the line of having a seemingly normal pregnancy and then an unexplained loss of a genetically normal baby at 12-14 weeks) but what we don't want to see is you have another loss that could be prevented.

I have the same trouble with the blood tests and doctors (as do many of the gals on here). So irritating! I'd be happy to pay out of pocket for tests rather than have to go in there and beg, it's one of my pet peeves. :/

I 1000% want you to take the iron as directed. Low iron can be dangerous and early pregnancy is a very iron-greedy time. Please take it as directed for 2 months then go to a maintenance dose of 3x a week.

I do believe B12 sways blue but I have a compromise way of taking it (I may have said this on the other page, but if I didn't) find the lowest dose B12 you can find (this is usually 500 mcg) without any other ingredients - particularly B6! - and take it 2x a week. If you're low in Vit D, you should take it as the doctor directs you for however long and go to the maintenance dose of 2x a week. If you're just worried about being low in D and aren't sure if you are, then take the lowest dose you can find (usually this is 400 IU, for some reason Vit D is measured in IU not mg) daily for 2 weeks, then maintenance dose of 2x a week.

Thank you! I hope you and your family are safe and healthy as well! :heart:

[sunflowertravels]

Thank you Atomic, I'm feeling very good about moving forward with a lower carb vegetarian diet (and cutting our sugar and refined carbs, etc). I think with all the stress and unhealthy-over eating I've been doing this past month, it will feel good to eat healthy again. The perfect kick start I need. I will absolutely seek to get my Thyroid tested and if I have to pay out of pocket I will (I am in Ontario, Canada, and while I am grateful for our healthcare system, some doctors don't want to run tests unless necessary because out health care is universal and they bill the government). It was tested a couple years ago and came back good, but I know things can change as time goes on. Even if nothing is wrong, it's always good to get a snap shot of your health and see where you are at. I am hoping my doctor is supportive in investigating this . I personally think a full hormonal blood work check up would be good considering my two recent losses.

Thank you for your suggestions regarding B12 and Vit D. With being a vegetarian, it can often be hard to get B12 in my diet. However, I was looking at the back of my carton I have of unsweetened almond milk and I noticed it has been fortified with B12. I'm thinking instead of a supplement, I will have some almond milk pour over berries, or make a smoothie with it with some plant based protein I have.

As much as I'd love a daughter, at this point, after experiencing two miscarriages, a healthy baby is what I hope to welcome to our family. I will sway with one attempt and exercise and diet to the best of my ability, but at the end of the day, I am okay with what the universe gives me :)
Thank you again for your support <3

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: the almond milk will absolutey work for B12 esp. since you're eating eggs too.

:agree: a full workup may be in order.

Everything else is looking great to me! Please don't hesitate to contact me with any other questions or concerns, and keep me posted as to how you're getting along!