devastated

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Dear atomic,

you've been such a great help. I really need some advice.

I can't seem to get pregnant anymore (35y old, husband is 40). We have been trying since July, been on diet since April.

In July I used cheapy OPKs and didnt really have a positive, so our one attempt was probably mistimed.

But since August we used Clearblue (the one with flashy and solid smiley). We always had our one attempt at the first solid. You are probably right, we should go to e4d. We didn't do that regulary these last months tbh.

My husband has given up Sauna (just figured out a month ago, that it might be harmful, it wasn't a sway tactic).

We just did: limiting attempts, diet, fasting for 12 instead of 16 ours. I even ate 4 instead of 3 meals these last eight weeks. Still no snacking. Dropped clomid. Couln't get femara. Spermiogram of my HB last year was ok.

My Cycle shortened since the diet from about 40 days and longer to about 31 days these last months. It has never been so regular.

We are doing no other sway tactics. I have even given up the idea of a girl, I just want to get pregnant and have been crying a lot.

We only have one biological child (nearly 8), our other son is the adult stepson from his former wife (long story). So I fear that after all these years we are to old.

I feel like we have lost so much time, saving money for HT. 2 years went by, then my miscarriage in april. And now it's nearly winter and still no baby. I am taking folate acid and thinking about prenatals.

On the other hand I remember that you wrote somewhere that boy moms often panik when not getting pregnant and then do a full blue sway.

Oh and we did Jump and Dump. I dropped that 2 months ago. This month I feel asleep after the attempt but got a slight UTI.

How long is recommended to lie still after the attempt? I am ready to drop more tactics. I just want a sibling for my son. I was down to 56,5 kg in summer (startet with 62,5 kg) and now gained 2 lbs and held steady there for 8 weeks.

I haven't tracked totals anymore for 2 months, but i def. ate more than the months before.

Did a lot of sport 6 days a week. In September it dropped to 4 days a week. Now I did no sports for 2,5 weeks because of holidays and because I have a horrible cold. Also drank tea these last few days because of the cold (before that it was lots of coffee).

We did no shallow release. Please help. I feel like I spend all my fertile time for HT and now get punished by not getting pregnant anymore.

Last year at the HT clinic my thyroid was ok. Had a Vit D deficiency (don't know, if I still have it, as we kept HT a secret to my doctor at home).

I always thought we were a high fertile couple, but we are not anymore.

Oh and I drank a lot of diet coke, better drop it, right? I will try to eat more fats (eggs, fish, jogurt), just had cheese but that was it basically, I probably eat to much bread/carbs (whole wheat, but still to much I guess ... I have always been a carb junky).

Sorry for the long post, I just can't seem to stop crying today when AF arrived.


note: wanted to add, for 3 days I had brown spotting. Long wait for the full flow. Could this be a progesterone issue? I know spotting before AF from my previous cycles. ... also: can UTI prevent conception?


Again I am sorry for so many questions. Thank you so much in advance!!

[Racey hoping pink]

Hi just wanted to send you a virtual hug, so sorry for your loss earlier in the year, I'm nearly 36 and my hubby 42, we have 2 boys but really want a 3rd and last baby. We are having a similar issue, we have tried every 4 day for 3 cycles and I was upset when my period arrived recently too, we are going to try the 72 hour pattern now rather than 96 like we had and I'm feeling more positive and hopeful. I've been lying down for 10 mins after and using a tiny amount of conceive plus. Wishing you all the best, I hope we both get our bfp very soon xx

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Thank you so much. We even did 2 attempts 48 hours apart this cycle and it didn't work. But the first one was probably too early. Every 72 hours sounds good, thank you we will probably try that. Is "conceive plus" a prenatal oder some kind of jelly? :) sending you hugs, too and yes, it would be so wonderful if we would both get bfps soon.

[Racey hoping pink]

It's a fertility lubricant, I use it because of dryness down there, I tried a little sylk at first but thought it might have been hindering conception and I remembered Atomic said small amounts of a fertility lubricant are likely ok for swaying pink so I switched to a sperm safe one. x

[atomic sagebrush]

Please do not add in prenatals. That is not what is happening here. Only eat 4 meals if you are losing too much weight. This is clearly a mechanical problem to me and not a diet/supplement problem.

The FIRST thing you need to do is go to every 4 days in the 72 hour pattern. If you've been doing one attempt, you should not feel devastated about not conceiving yet, that is quite common. Give e4d a try first and then we will go to e4d plus one.

The sauna may be having a BIG effect. As did the jump and dump especialy if you did that immediately rather than after 5 minutes. Also try laying down part of the time on your stomach, not only your back.

You just did all the testing for IVF. If you were "too old" they would have known that then. You are not getting pregnant because the one attempt wasn't enough.

Did you ever take medication for the Vit. D deficiency?

I never recommend more than 2-3 servings of Diet Coke anyway. But I don't think that's what is causing this.

UTI is unliikely to cause trouble conceiving.

The spotting before your cycle starts is quite common. Was there 14 days between ovulation and the onset of the red flow? I do not think this is a progesterone issue but instead that you've stuck to the one attempt too long.

Any antihistamine or jelly?

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Thank you so much for the quick answer! It helped to clear my head and to calm down.

No, we did not use any antihistamines or jelly.

Understood, I will not add a prenatal and DH will quit sauna for some time :)

How many month would you recommend the 72h pattern? I hope we can keep up, lol, as my sex drive is low these days (DH is happy about the new pattern though :) ... about 3 months and if it won't work, then try 72h plus another attempt at solid smiley?

Yes I did take a Vit D suppl. last year for the time of stims, egg retrieval and for the transfers, because the HT doctor thought that the deficiency was significant in my blood works. After that I stopped / forgot to take it. I also had Vit D defiancy a few years ago.

I haven't tested it again. Do you think I should get a supplement and take one every few days? (You don't recommend these things for daily intake is what I read?)


Thank you for the thought of IVF Testing last year. Haven't thought about it that way. Our pretestings were good, so you are probably right

Do you think, more veggies could help conceive? I was good on eating fruit daily but was very lazy about veggies these last months.

And yes: it is about 14 days from first solid smiley to flow :)

Atm I still have horrible throat ache and coughs. After this virus, would you recommend exercise again? I used to cycle and walk until 2,5 weeks ago and liked it very much. Is it a sway tactic that would be dropped sooner or later?

[atomic sagebrush]

For 2-3 months or even longer if you choose. It's all about what you feel comfortable with.

We don't need to add an attempt until you are ready.

Let's go ahead and add in the Vit. D again 3x a week. Get the lowest dose you can find (NOT tens of thousands of IU) While I don't think that's what is happening it will help us rule it out.

Again, I don't think this is a diet issue. Fine to eat veggies if you like but I think this is just a case of not enough attempts, plus the sauna and J and D.

Exercise done in a reasonable amount shouldn't need to be dropped. Once you're feeling better you can add that in again. Let's start with 4x a week.

If it's 14 days from O to the red flow with a couple days spotting beforehand that is likely ok. How much fat are you eating??

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Thank you atomic. I am feeling better.

I am currently CD 15. Got flashy smileys since for two days now. We attempted on CD 12 and CD9 and will keep the 72h pattern. DH avoids sauna now and I didn't add a prenatal :)

Saaadly, I suddendly gained nearly a 1kg (nearly 2 lbs). I couldn't do sports as I had this cold now for over 3 weeks (dizzy, coughing, sweaty) and ate a little more chocolate each day, so now I am heavier :(

But still didn't snack and today was the first day where i could do sports again, yay. Still a little sick but not so dizzy anymore.

I am considering skipping this month because of the sport and weight. But I am still more than 4kg lighter than when starting and I read today that a cold sways a bit pink?

Also you were right? I didn't track anymore. Now I did. I ate about 1800kcal but only about 35g fat (too much bread and chocolate these last 3 weeks). 3 weeks ago, weight and diet were perfect for months. I really worry that now I did a full blue sway this months.

On the other hand I feel like we really have trouble getting pregnant now and that I shouldn't skip a month. I think we wont skip.

I am motivated again though and will regroup and eat more fat from tomorrow on and continue getting started with the sports again :)

[atomic sagebrush]

2 lbs is nothing. Don't worry about that.

Do not worry about exercising right now.

You don't need to wait to try if you feel up to it. I am fine with you trying this month.

It is what always happens when people don't track. They cut back more and more and don't realize it.

???? I am really confused what you are saying when you say you were eating 35 g fat. That is TOO LOW and I would have wanted you to increase that. So if you were worried you had increased to 35 g fat that is fine, that is barely more than the minimum. You can have up to 60 g fat. EAting 1800 cals and 35 g fat will not sway blue.

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Thank you :) no sorry I wrote that in the wrong way. English is not my native language.

I meant that I thought I would be getting about 50g fat or 60g, but it was much lower these last days and probably weeks. I didn't notice because I didn't track totals. But I will now continue to track again to up fat to 60g and eat more things like Jogurt and cheese instead of so much bread. I started with PCOS LE in April and have sadly shiftet to LE these last weeks (less fat, more chocolate and bread). But I want to regroup and get back to PCOS LE and aim at about 1800kcal and 50 to 60g fat. This was what I did in summer and want to get back to it :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh ok. Yes, that is not enough fat and protein so please do track to be sure you are getting enough. That type of diet would be better both for your sway and your chances of conceiving.

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Dear atomic
my situation changed and I just want to get pregnant now. I would really welcome either gender with great joy.

I startet the diet after my miscarriage with DC in April 2020 (we went HT for a daughter).

Attempts were from July onwards, with first just one attempt.

Since November we did e3d and hubby dropped sauna. Got pregnant then with a chemical (HCG slightly elevated but bleeding at about 4+3).

I also ate a lot more and due to three colds in a row I couldn't exercise and gained 3 pounds.

I am not doing the diet anymore. I just eat moderately but still don't snack und push back breakfast. I take just folic acid. Sometimes I now take a multivitamin as I had Vit D defiency and I don't know If I still have it. (took 1 Multivitamin every week oder 1 every two weeks).

Hubby is 40 and highly stressed at work atm. He will get another Spermiogram in March. He has trouble with e3d and at our last attempt when clearblue said peak Fertility he couldn't finish (never happened). Today I got my period. I just knew I wasn't pregnant as we ended up e4d and missed both peak Fertility days). I don't want to pressure dh. We are doing no other sway tactics. I am shocked as I always thought we were high Fertility. I have only been successful pregnant once. Our other son is my adult stepson. My fears of never having a second biological child keep me from sleeping at night. DH is also worried that we might not have a second biological child.

I can't keep up the 4 to 6 days exercise anymore but I did manage 1 hour exercise bike for about 2 or 3 days a week. I would like to keep that because it helps me to feel better? ¡

What can I do to boost Fertility? Oh and I drank about 5 cups of coffee because I like the taste so much and sometimes extra diet Coke. I figured out yesterday that this might be a big problem so I will now stop coffeine. Can I do something else to get pregnant? (I am 35). I would like to add attempts, could this give us a better chance? I thought maybe 2 attempts (one each peak Fertility day) if dh can manage. If not then I will not pressure him of course. It's the middle of the night here and I can't sleep because of my sadness and crying. I think with spending 2 years on HT (saving money, waiting, etc) I wasted my fertil years.

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Oh and dH has an autoimmune condition and now has been taking vitamins for some weeks. I have had high amh when we did Fertility testing 2019 and they suspected pcos. My cycles are about 33 to 38 days long. But clearblue now always tells me my 2 peak Fertility days and I have ewcm and ovulation pain. So I hope that I really ovulate but I am not sure? I had problems with long cycles all my life (and with skin outbreaks which have worsened). I drank Fertility tea for some days now. They help me shorten my cycle I think. ANY help would be appreciated. TY atomic!!!

PS: BMI is now up to 21,0 again.

PS: I think I really need to track again even if I don't do LE anymore. I have always had problems eating enough fat. (much albeit dark bread and fruits but sadly also sweets again sometimes). I will try to add full fat Jogurt again.

[Ami129]

I would focus on trying to be as healthy as you can- exercise in moderation and not too excessively as that might screw up your cycles. Avoid too
Much caffeine also and make sure you have enough calories. Is your partners autoimmune issue under control? The Chinese believe that keeping your abdominal area warm and eating warm foods improves fertility- so wearing a vest or you can buy these special Chinese belt sorry I forgot what they are called and eating warm meals and avoiding cold salads or uncooked veg. Are you charting your cycles? If you have pcos you might not be ovulating regularly so charting and using ovulation tests will help you see if you are.


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[atomic sagebrush]

Please keep the exercise even at reduced amount.

I strongly urge you to NOT go from drinking 5 cups of coffee to no coffee. You will feel miserable if you do that. just reduce gradually to 1-2 cups a day.

I suggest you have your Vit. D levels tested again. You may need more D than is in a multivitamin.

Are you eating a lot of carbs? Becuae if you really have PCOS, and you're eating too many carbs, that can cut odds of conception by a lot.

The odds are very good that at 35, having had a baby in the past, you are still totally fertile. Do not worry yet.

I would strongly urge you guys to do e4d (in the 72 hour pattern) anyway. Just having 2 attempts in what you THINK is the fertile window is not foolproof because you can end up ovulating sooner or later than you think you will. I would do e4d and then add in another attempt either at positive OPK or some other point in the fertile window.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and dH has an autoimmune condition and now has been taking vitamins for some weeks. I have had high amh when we did Fertility testing 2019 and they suspected pcos. My cycles are about 33 to 38 days long. But clearblue now always tells me my 2 peak Fertility days and I have ewcm and ovulation pain. So I hope that I really ovulate but I am not sure? I had problems with long cycles all my life (and with skin outbreaks which have worsened). I drank Fertility tea for some days now. They help me shorten my cycle I think. ANY help would be appreciated. TY atomic!!!

PS: BMI is now up to 21,0 again.

PS: I think I really need to track again even if I don't do LE anymore. I have always had problems eating enough fat. (much albeit dark bread and fruits but sadly also sweets again sometimes). I will try to add full fat Jogurt again.

If you are getting your period regularly and getting pos OPK and O symptoms as you describe at the appropriate part of the cycle then you are all but certainly ovulating. You don't typically have fairly regular cycles if you are not ovulating.

What is in the fertility tea? (if you don't know just tell me the brand). Most of those things are worse than nothing.

I think we'll be better off having you cut back on carbs and eating more fat. That will be by far more helpful to your cycle than "fertility tea" which usually ISN'T helpful to fertility at all.

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Thank you!!

I try to calm down a bit. My doctor said the same as you did yesterday and because of the chemical in december she thinks I must be ovulating.

I will keep exercise 3 to 4 days a week. The fertility tea is rasperry leaf tea. It helps shorten my cycle a bit and on both months with the tea my endometrium was better. Before the tea my Gyn noticed that it could be a bit thicker.

I now take folic acid and vitamin d. I will get my levels checked in march. We have an appointment at a fertility clinic in our town in march. DH went for a check up for his prostate (had nothing to do with fertility) and there his doctor found a small inguinal fracture and a varicocele? This doctor didn't know if this would affect his fertility but said probably not.

I found the old spermiograms from our HT attempts from 2019 and noticed that DH then had reduced progressive motility. We never noticed as I never looked at those spermiograms (it was about 23% percent both times and should be over 32%).

Hubby trinks nettle tea for his severe autoimmune condition and we both now eat more fruit (he already ate much fruit) and started to trink vegetable juice again. I don't know if this makes a difference. It just gives me a feeling to be able to do something.

And I will now try to eat more healthy fat and less carbs (too much bread and a bit to much chocolate these last 3 months). My weight ist steady.

Do you think the red raspberry leaf tea is okay or should I skip this?

I also drank "baby dream tea" for one month with mixed herbals but this one I eliminated as I thought it could confuse my body even further.

Thank you atomic, we will do e4d (every 72h if hubby feels up to it) with an extra attempt at peak fertility (solid smiley on clearblue).


PS: I feel so bad for pretending to be a fertility patient for HT in 2019 and now we might really struggle with this. I never expected this. It feels like it's my punishment for getting so disappointed about a certain gender. But theres nothing that I can do about it now.

[Ami129]

It sounds like you have made some little changes to your diets and lifestyle that will hopefully make the difference. The veg juice is better than fruit juice, especially with pcos and cutting back on your exercise a little but still staying active will hopefully help keep your cycles regular but still help your fertility. There is some fertility yoga you might find helpful for increasing your lining- you can find some on you tube searches. I had same issue with thin lining- shown on scans and very light periods and also suffered an early miscarriage a year before falling this time. I increased it with increasing green leafy veg, fertility yoga, moxibustion, raspberry and nettle tea and Mayan fertility massages and then managed to conceive. I hope you get
Your BFP soon x


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[Drunken Cockatoo]

Ami this sound good thank you!! I will search the Fertility yoga on YouTube und buy more veggies and leafy greens tomorrow

[atomic sagebrush]

Is it just raspberry leaf or does it have other ingredients?

Reduced motility ALONE is not a big deal. It's only when it happens alongside a lot of other things that it matters.

I can't find the Baby Dream tea specifically but yes if it has other herbs you should avoid it. The herbs that are supposed to "help fertility" often cause far more harm than good.

Please don't feel like you are being punished. Remember, all of us who do end up getting the baby we hoped had gender desire the same as you, and many of us did do IVF as well. But we did go on to have our desired gender. That would not make any sense for you to be "punished" and the rest of us, even those of us who did all the same as you, still got our desired gender!

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Dear atomic,

today another cycle ended for me without pregnancy (period arrived).

The tea I now drank was red Raspberry leaf tea and my cycle was very strange this month. Often they are far to long (35 to 38 days).

But this cycle was 28 days long but clearblue ovulation test showed max Fertility about a week ago. Before that it was just a Flashy Smiley. We began attempts every other day about 12 days ago which may have been to late?

I always thought that clearblue is very exact? Could it have been wrong? If it was right then max Fertility was at CD 19 and 20 and period arrived at CD 28. Maybe the tea did more harm than good. Cycle before that was 33 days but with spotting 4 days before real period. But second half of my cycle then was 14 days if you count in the spotting days. I guess that my hormones may be wrong?

We have an appointment for a Fertility clinic in March and we even considered egg donation in Czech Republic or adoption now. I feel like a second biological child might not happen for me. Also this month there was NO noticeable ewcm or any mucus which worries me. But during our attempts there was no dryness either (sorry if TMI).

The baby dream tea has lady's coat, rosemary, yarrow, lemon grass, mugwort, red Raspberry leafs and basil. I only drank this for one cycle in January until I read your warning. Then I stopped.

[atomic sagebrush]

Clearblue is no more exact than any other OPK. It is easier for some people to read.

Your cycle can change at any point. Maybe the RRLT had some effect, maybe it was just coincidence.

Many people get a false positive at about a week before AF comes (a week after ovulation). When did you start testing with the OPK?? Do you think you started testing too late?? And missed the true ovulation at CD 14, then got a false positive a week later?? This happens a lot with peopel who have longer cycles, they think they don't need to start testing till later and miss their true ovulation.

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Thank you this really could have been what was going on. I started testing at CD 15 because my cycles are too long. And we started attempts at CD 15. Probably far to late.

Thank you also for clarifying the Clearblue Thing. I always thought it was more exact because it measures two hormones. Gives me a bit peace that maybe we were just to late this month with attempts

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, that's exactly what happened. You missed your surge and then caught only the secondary estrogen surge.

The Clearblue with its "two hormones" is no more reliable it just gives you more warning about when ovulation is coming. But it then gives an entirely different subset of mistakes and confusion so it's no more reliable at all.

And it wouldn't have mattered even if it was "more reliable" because you are supposed to start testing sooner than that. The Clearblues cannot measure the changes in your hormones if you don't start testing early enough to detect them.

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Atomic, thank you so much. Since your last answer I have read a lot about temperature and cm and LH tests. Ah, why didn't I try the temperatur thing sooner.

I am measuring this cycle for the first time. I am currently on CD 18. On CD 12 and 13 I had ewcm. Since CD 15/ 16 my Temperatur has risen. Clearblue stick showed the static smiley only yesterday on CD 17. Clearblue Monitor showed no lh rising at all and still gives me high instead of max Fertility. Maybe we really sometimes missed ovulation these past cycles?

We are having attempts every 2 days this cycle (we started them on CD8) . We are not doing a strict sway anymore. I really just want a second child. But I have kept the PCOS diet and still don't snack and BMI is steady at 20. I think this helps with my sometimes long cycles. DHs next Spermiogramm is soon. He took vitamins for 2 months and did a more frequent release. I think he sometimes had abstained for too long. And he quit sauna. I hope we will figure this out. I hope his sperm motility will improve a bit. Thanks so much for your input to not just rely on Clearblue!!

[Drunken Cockatoo]

And I just read about Ubiquinol. Never heard of it before. Maybe we could use that, too? To improve egg quality?

[atomic sagebrush]

You don't need to temp test really though. It's ok if you want to but the main thing you needed to do was start testing before CD 15!!

If you thought you were having delayed O and a short LP I can just about guarantee you were missing O!

If you want to take ubiquinol that's totally fine if you'd like, but be aware it is not really particularly effective at all and is basically what doctors (and me LOL) give to people to help them feel like they're doing something to solve a problem. But I truly think the issue is that you were missing O at least some of the time.