Delayed ovulation

[Chocolatina]

Hi, I’ve started with my opk this month planning my first attempt, however my ovulation is delayed/missing. I’ve been on the LE diet for 3 1/2 months, vegetarian, I always tried to have at least 50 g of fat daily. I am nursing my 16 month toddler once a day. After the birth I got my period back 4 months ago, so yesterday should have been my fifth ovulation. My period has always been regular (despite the scarce nursing) and I feel the ovulation with terrible cramps and recognisable change of CM, I haven’t had them yet and my opk are all negative. Could I have messed up my period somehow? I eat twice a day with 1500-1800 cals of daily intake. I believe I haven’t caused any delays with my diet as it has been pretty much the same since before my period recovered after the pregnancy and intensive nursing. The only thing that changed this month is that I started taking fibre as the mildest laxative possible for digestion problems, I had psylium for about 2 weeks. I’ve had it many times in the past for long periods, it has never affected my period, though. My cardio consists of 60-70 mins of brisk walking. Since May I lost a total of 9 kilograms, 6 of them with the LE diet, my last month I attempted to stay at 57 kilograms exactly in order not to mess my period up. Any ideas what can I do?

[atomic sagebrush]

Psyllium can absorb fat very easily so I would suspect it may be related to that, but then again the diet can have a cumulative effect - you can roll along ok for a while but eventually your body starts to notice the lack of food coming in.

Let's go ahead and boost fat up to 60 g (just add in a serving of full fat dairy daily) and then cut out the psyllium. if you need a laxative, try Miralax instead.

No more weight loss till we get this sorted out!

[Chocolatina]

I already cut the psyllium, of course, I will up the fat intake. I am concerned that I may have lost my period altogether, is there a chance for that? Or is the ovulation going to be just delayed... of course, only a doctor can say for sure, but from your experience? I lost my period once in my youth due to a very harsh diet and I am stressed it might have happened again but I really cannot compare my eating back then with now. Now I eat 90% if how I usually eat so I really do believe it can’t have been dieting... ugh I am so frustrated
Edit- I still have no traces of incoming ovulation and my husband’s pushing me to drop everything... I am pretty sure I am eating enough, the change is skipping the meat which I didn’t like and eat much anyway... I am not willing to even try for a third child if I haven’t given it a chance for a girl after two boys. Is there any chance to get back my ovulation while swaying or should I leave 4 months of efforts behind and go boy-friendly? Is there any chance for a period without an ovulation? I have no idea what to do

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry, I should have said "cut it out indefinitely". I know you dropped it for now but you'd be surprised how many people start back on things after something like this happens.

You won't lose your period indefinitely if the issue stems from diet. We will fix diet WITHOUT SWAYING BLUE and it will come back again. In most cases, ovulation even in the month that it comes late, still comes. It's somewhat unusual, not impossible, that you'd have an anovulatory cycle where no egg is released and then have a bleed (not a period but a bleed when estrogen drops) and then that acts like a reset and you'll have a normal, or more normal period. So yes, to answer your question, you can have a "period" without ovulating, but it's more likely your ovulation will just happen later.

DO NOT go off diet now. What we need to do is make small changes over time without going full HE Diet and then what that accomplishes is to gradually turn the dial back in the "fertile" direction just enough, so you'll be ovulating but still in the pink zone.

Above all else, don't worry! This happens sometimes and I have helped I'm sure into the thousands of people by now correct for this. It's not any cause for concern I promise.

[Chocolatina]

So today is the 18-th day from the 1-st day of my last period and the ovulation prediction strips are as negative as they come, no second line at all which means no ovulation within the next several days. My ovulation is pretty sharp at 14 days each month, period at 27, so unfortunately I don’t see how ovulation will happen from now on... I won’t take any fiber until after I get pregnant, that’s for sure. But what do I do now- I start eating 60 grams of fat every day, that’s all? No other changes? Will this get me an ovulation next month? What should I expect now- the “period” and regular ovulation after (keep my fingers crossed)? How does it usually go, you said you had many similar cases that were fixed? Do I stop breastfeeding since it is only once daily in case the prolactin interjected the ovulation (it did not happen before, though, 4 months of absolutely punctual ovulation with breastfeeding).

[atomic sagebrush]

Wait, you're only on CD 18?? That is still in normal range! Gosh I thought you were way overdue. Please try not to worry about that. Even ovulating as late as CD 21 is considered normal and up to CD 35 O is something we see frequently (even without swaying). While I know it sucks to have a delayed O it's really not worth worrying about.

You can and in the vast majority of cases WILL still ovulate. You're not correct to tell yourself "well I haven't ovulated so far, that means I can't see how it will happen". It does still happen. Even in most cases people think they had an anovulatory cycle they did still ovulate, just later on. The odds are all but 100% that you'll still ovulate (I say that because you really haven't cut back too drastically on your food intake).

It is also possible that you did ovulate and just had false negatives on the OPK tests. That can happen.

What you should expect is that you will still ovulate and have a normal period. That's almost certainly what will happen. So I would either continue doing OPK or else go to every 4 day method if you prefer and wait to see what happens.

OR, another much less likely possibility on the table is that you could have an anovulatory cycle, have a breakthrough bleed at some point that will reset your hormones and then the next month you'll ovulate in a more normal time frame. But I find that much less likely than that you'll simply ovulate a bit later than normal.

DO NOT stop breastfeeding for this. Once a day is quite unlikely to delay O and I suspect given that you were not seeing a delay from it before, that this is more likely to be diet related.

[Chocolatina]

Oh, I still have a chance? I will keep testing, do I still up the fat to 60 g? If yes, do I still keep the one attempt at positive opk, am I within the girl range? I doubt the tests were falsely negative as I did not have the usual strong pains and change of CM, either. I never in my life had delayed ovulation or period, it is just so weird and utterly unusual but I trust your words unconditionally. Another thing- I had a bit of a cheat day yesterday (more sugar than necessary), it doesn’t matter that much in case I actually have my ovulation despite the day being close to it, right? I guess it is the overall strictness that counts...?

[lad]

Hey Chocolatina! I don't know if this helps but I had a really similar situation this month. I think I was exercising too hard at the beginning of the month, and didn't ovulate at my normal time (14 days). I switched to just walking an hour a day (instead of running 4-5 miles), and sure enough, soon I had EWCM. We'd just started giving up on the OPKs and were doing E4D, and then I got a positive at cycle day 19! Unfortunately I don't think we conceived -- pretty sure I'm about to start my period. But it was good to know that I ovulated, and that my body is still functioning. Now I just have to figure out how to ride the line between getting my runs in and also not delaying ovulation for this next month!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh, I still have a chance? I will keep testing, do I still up the fat to 60 g? If yes, do I still keep the one attempt at positive opk, am I within the girl range? I doubt the tests were falsely negative as I did not have the usual strong pains and change of CM, either. I never in my life had delayed ovulation or period, it is just so weird and utterly unusual but I trust your words unconditionally. Another thing- I had a bit of a cheat day yesterday (more sugar than necessary), it doesn’t matter that much in case I actually have my ovulation despite the day being close to it, right? I guess it is the overall strictness that counts...?

Yes, you absolutely have a chance, an excellent chance. Anywhere from 50-60 g fat, being sure that you're having 1 serving of full fat dairy daily and 4-6 eggs a week, is what we're aiming for.

You can still try for one attempt at positive OPK if you want, or you can do every 4 days in the 96 hour pattern whichever you prefer.

Nothing you eat now and then, even if it's right before ovulation, matters. We have good results that show us that only after 8+ weeks on diet, does it really get truly reliable, and 12+ weeks is best (even when people were quite relaxed over time. And 2-4 weeks on diet, even though most of those people were very strict, got poor results. So there's just no way a small cheat can matter.

[Chocolatina]

Atomic, you were absolutely right, on CD 21 yesterday I had a positive opk, out of a sudden, with no graduate change of colour of the second line of the opk stripes (which I usually observed when we ttc last time). We had our one attempt although I wished to try a 2-3 day cutoff for the first several months as both of my boys are conceived on a positive opk day (first boy one attempt, second boy one attempt on +opk, one attempt 2 days prior). Now another question (or two actually)- does the delayed ovulation mean anything - over matured egg, swaying more blue, lower odds of conception, anything else? Second q- I never found out how do we proceed after this one attempt on positive opk- do we abstain, do we dtd with protection (does it matter what) or can we just have unprotected sex as the ovulation is gone and when? Thanks a million for your support!

[atomic sagebrush]

The reason why ovulation is delayed makes a difference. There are a few different reasons why O can be delayed. In your case I think it was that you weren't eating quite enough and that would only sway pink.

Don't worry about a "over mature egg". That is not actually a thing when we're talking about this type of time frame and the idea has really fallen out of favor anyway.

If you're sure you ovulated you can have unprotected sex. Some people worry about things like pH and prefer to use barrier method birth control. It's your call to make really. I would not have your husband abstain for all that time though!

[Chocolatina]

Atomic, I hope it’s ok to continue here, I know it takes a while for you to see new comments in old threads, I’ll wait as much as it takes. I’ve got my period today, so disappointed... anyway it was just my first month attempting. Do you have any vague idea how many months does it usually take to conceive with one attempt, cardio (walking) 6-7 days, LE veggie no meat? I mean average (I am 35, DH 37, 2 kids, no special conditions). It cannot be predicted, but what are your observations throughout the years supporting here? I did not expect it to happen immediately but I saw that to many girls it actually did. The idea is to lower the fertility but the attempt is in the best moment possible, after all... DH abstained (unintentionally), perhaps if we include FR instead it will help...?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes of course!

We have an average of 3 months to conception, which is in keeping with the average time to conception without swaying (3-6 months).

Most people do eventually give up on one attempt and go to e4d and then e4d plus one. The amount of time you want to spend on one attempt is up to you though. Some people are in more of a hurry to conceive than others are.

Both abstain and FR can cut odds of conception. Your husband should be doing FR becuase it's safer but if you want better chances of conception, we can do regular release instead.

[Chocolatina]

Will regular release lower the chances for pink or will it just improve the chance for conception? I think I read somewhere your opinion that the theory of FR, abstain and other patterns influencing the sway has been debunked. But I really want to give it the best chances for a girl. I will stick to one attempt for at least 6 months as I use opk and know when my O is going to happen.

[atomic sagebrush]

The abstain and FR haven't worked. (I actually made up the FR myself LOL). Only the one attempt worked. So I think it's fine for you guys to drop abstain and FR and do regular release every 2-4 days with the one attempt. It's your choice, you may want to try a month with FR and then do regular release, whatever you feel most comfortable with.

[Chocolatina]

Atomic, I just wanted to share that I got my ovulation sharp this time (in case someone reads the thread- your advices were brilliant without me having to drop LE). I had an LH surge on CD 13 (as I always do). We had our one attempt on that day, the first with positive opk. But I have another concern- I did an unintentional jump&dump, we DTD (me on top, maybe not a favourable position for conceiving, I am thinking now), and I had to go to the WC about 30 mins later, I am afraid I lost too much “material”... I am looking for reassurance I didn’t lose it all and still have a chance at getting pregnant, some of it still went in, right? :) ‘cause it seemed to me a lot fell out... sorry for the dumb question. I am now blaming myself I ruined our one attempt and a whole month of waiting and swaying with my need to pee...

[atomic sagebrush]

If you laid down for 30 min. after intercourse you did not do a J and D. Anything that comes out after 30 minutes is just semen with dead/dying sperm in it - all the good sperm goes up inside the cervical crypts. I got my girl with me on top!

[Chocolatina]

Thanks a lot, this sounds promising :) I read your J and D essay (updated in 2017), is it still valid- do I up my chances for a girl a bit if I J and D 5-10 mins after DTD? I am willing to try it next month if I don’t conceive this month if it did prove to work over the years...

[atomic sagebrush]

We don't know for sure but yes I'm fine with you guys starting off with 5 min J and D and then extending. It did seem to add a little something but that can be a fluke.

[Chocolatina]

Ok, another issue- I just got my period on CD 24 (usually it is on CD 27), with first positive OPK on CD 13, does this make it a too short luteal phase? Can this be a one-time thing or should I be concerned? I’ve been on LE since mid August, cardio has not been hard - one hour of brisk walking 5-6 days a week. This is my second unsuccessful month of DTD. Last month I got a delayed ovulation, perhaps due to some psyllium fiber intake, but this month I was careful not to eat too little, especially during the holiday period. I am surprised of this outcome and a little worried ��can I conceive at all with such a short LP? Did I do something to cause it? Still breastfeeding once a day, there were no problems with my LP since the recovery of my period after giving birth, but the overall length has been varying between 24 and 33 days (so irregular). Maybe it is breastfeeding?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, you can still conceive with a short LP of 10 days like you're describing. But it can absolutely be a one time thing too.

Breastfeeding can contribute but I want to be sure you're eating enough, especially fat and cals. What do you esitmate you're eating on those?

[Chocolatina]

Since my delayed ovulation I aim no less than 55 grams of fat daily, I don’t count them too precisely, but I included some Italian cheese in my daily menu. Regarding cals- it really depends, I eat twice daily, so I decided I won’t count them as I came to the conclusion that whatever I eat I can’t go over 1800 and when I go light I try not to have just a salad, but also bread, cheese, olive paste. The rest of the time I eat cooked food, veggie, some chocolate almost every day. I would say 1600 at least. I managed not to lose more weight so I think I’m doing a satisfactory job with the LE- not too obsessed coining each gram, not too loose, as well.
I’m thinking that the breastfeeding is doing some tricks with my hormones- since I got my period it has never been sharp- it comes anywhere between 24 and 33 days which is really untypical for me. I started considering weaning my toddler, I’ll give myself one or two more months and if I don’t conceive I may stop breastfeeding him. I feel that it acts quite the contraceptive. It isn’t easy for me to follow LE and find one hour every day for my walking so I really do hope it happens soon. Did you have many breastfeeding moms that managed to conceive quickly? I know it’s different for every woman, but I just want to know I have a chance... after all my OPK detect a clear LH surge ...

[atomic sagebrush]

If you're breastfeeding you need to be at more like 1800-2000 cals.

You can get pregnant nursing, and the older your child is, the less the breastfeeding acts as a contraceptive. So if your child is a toddler the effects are likely not that great and it is more likely to be diet related.

Yes, we have many women (myself included) who got pregnant easily while nursing. Most people can. It's always fine to wean if you want to wean, but I just don't want you to think you have to if you don't want.

[Chocolatina]

Ok, so it’s been pretty weird... my period that came too early (CD 24) was a bit lighter than usual, but instead of ending completely, the flow intensified on the eighth day of the menstruation and continued the same on the ninth day. For some reason I decided to do a pregnancy test today and it came out positive with a faint second line, it is CD 32, ninth day of the menstruation, I didn’t test first thing in the morning, but at noon. So I called my OB, she will see me in two days to make sure it is not an ectopic pregnancy. I don’t experience any pain, it seems it may be an early abortion when the HCG is still high and the test detected it, could it be a successful pregnancy with all this bleeding? Should I do something in terms of swaying or do you have any thoughts, recommendations? Will that affect my overall baby making? I had a missed abortion before DS2, hope this time the situation is not that dramatic...

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes it can still be a successful pregnancy even with bleeding. I had one of my pregnancies start out with five days of heavy bleeding and ended up with a healthy baby from that. I do think they need to do some testing to rule out any cause for alarm and then we will see where we're at.

Please don't do anything for swaying. Go ahead and start a prenatal and avoid anything you are taking that might harm a new pregnancy.

[Chocolatina]

My bleeding has been menstruation-like for five days, then 1-2 days of spotting, after that heavy bleeding, third day now. I went to the laboratory today to have my HCG tested as my doctor wants to have it followed and it is very low, so according to the blood test today- no more pregnancy. I guess I am continuing with the swaying and everything. I really do hope I will be able to try again this month... I know that an early abortion happens very often and most women don’t even realise they’ve had it, but it still sucks, I feel like it has somehow been my fault that I did not support my body well enough in order to keep the pregnancy. I know it isn’t like that, but it will be bugging me and I will be a little worried it will keep happening...Thanks so much for your support so far!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh, ok, I'm so sorry to hear that.

Yes, it's totally normal to feel like that, just keep in mind that women who are doing everything in their power to get pregnant also have losses and it's believed that the vast majority of all losses are just bad luck and nothing to do with anything the mother did. :heart: Let me know how I can help.

[Chocolatina]

I went to the doctor and she said it was either an early abortion, or a false positive test and abnormal period due to stress or other factors. Anyway, I am continuing with my sway. She said a pregnancy during breastfeeding will be less likely to occur since the prolactin is still at high levels and contradicts with the pregnancy hormones, but I am not giving up :) thanks a lot for your support, I will start with further questions soon, I am sure of it :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh these damn doctors, there is no such thing as a false positive with abnormal period due to stress. that's gibberish. You had an early loss.

She is also wrong about getting pregnant when breastfeeding. YES, it is somewhat harder to get pregnant when breastfeeding but once the cycle normalizes the prolactin is not having much of an effect any more. When there is enough prolactin to inhibit pregnancy, it makes you not ovulate or your ovulation is delayed and then your LP would be crazy short (like 3 day LP, that kind of thing). It is very unlikely the amount you're nursing has a negative effect as long as you're having a regular-ish cycle.

[Shelby27]

Jumping in just to add my sister had an OOPS conception at 6 months postpartum exclusively nursing. My mom also conceived my sister 3 months postpartum nursing me (my sister and I are basically Irish twins - August 1 & August 24). So ya being unable to conceive nursing is absolutely wrong!

[Chocolatina]

Thank you so much, ladies, it is really encouraging to hear that. I have been tracking my ovulations since the first period after the birth and I always had them, so I am pretty optimistic that I can conceive prior to weaning DS2. I am also fairly sure that it was an early loss, I started feeling the early pregnancy symptoms like the super sensitive nipples (nursing wasn’t very pleasant), the enhanced smells, my toddler got really nervous like he was threatened of being replaced :) he even pointed at my belly once and said “Babyyy!” I also felt terrible hunger, like I hadn’t eaten for days, I never had that with my previous pregnancies or in PMS. Anyway, it is in the past, I will keep trying, I had a few glorious days of cheering on LE and drowning myself in chocolate stuff, now I am back on track :) I have been on LE plus 1 h of daily intensive walks for about 24 weeks now (or more like 2-3 h of walking, 1 of which non stop)), so whatever I could- I did, it is in God’s hands now :) I hope I will get a regular ovulation after that weird period... and I also hope it is not a “sign” not to put efforts in girl making... I had a missed abortion before conceiving DS2, I was devastated and said Oh whatever it is, just to have a baby...I did a loose sway (unsuccessful apparently) and was totally ecstatic when I had him :) but this time I am not giving up my girl dream! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Let me know how I can help!

[Chocolatina]

Is it possible that my ovulation is delayed due to the eventual early loss I had? It is CD 17 and still no ovulation (usually comes on CD 13-14). I use OPKs- all negative, also no change in CM or other symptoms (they are usually pretty distinctive), so I can’t have missed it. I make sure I eat enough cals and fat- no less than 55 grams a day. Maybe my body is recovering the whole period, I don’t know...

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, but it's more likely you need to eat even more. I would up cals and fat a little more.

[Chocolatina]

Oh, OK, I will try...uhm do you have any suggestions how can I up my cals without adding too much fat/protein? I am fairly certain I go over the 60 grams of recommended fat very often as I eat cheese and chocolate every day (in an attempt to up the cals and because I love it!). I wonder what could I add?

[atomic sagebrush]

fruit and potatoes are always good options. We don't count protein or fat.

But you can up fat to 65 g if need be.

[Chocolatina]

Ok, so on CD 29 I got a positive OPK- I expected a period as I thought I would have an anovulatory cycle due to the early loss, but instead I got the ovulation symptoms, so I tested and got a +. What should I think of that in terms of pink swaying? I made sure I ate enough cals and fat, so I consider this huge delay a consequence of the loss (plus I still breastfeed once a day). We had our one attempt of course, I am also on LE and 1 h daily walks, nothing more.I am thinking- does this mean anything at all regarding the sway or egg quality?

[atomic sagebrush]

It's fine. You should have an attempt if you haven't already. This doesn't signify anything for your sway (though I do believe your diet is still playing a roll, it sometimes takes a few months for your body to fully recover.)

It has NO effect on egg quality. There was a theory for many years that delayed ovulation might be making poor egg quality, but over time we have learned it was the underlying reasons why ovulation was delayed (both eating too little and having severe PCOS make for poorer egg quality and delayed O) and not just having the egg come a bit later for various reasons. Your eggs have been in your body waiting since before you were ever born and until they are ready to be ovulated, they are dormant anyway. People get successfully pregnant when they are ovulating even once in a year or even more than a year (that's what happens to many of those women who did not realize they were pregnant).

Long story short, you're good to try if you would like.