Please help me Atomic, I'm desperate

[Sallystutt]

Hi Atomic, I'm hoping you can help me. I've been ttc for 6+ months but thinking about it for way longer. I have been trying 1 attempt with roughly 2.5 days cutoff (recently I've been aiming for 1.5 but I have had confusing OPKS that seem to peak but then peak more a day later for example)
This cycle i ended up with 2 attempts O-3 and O-1 and I'm freaking out and regretting it.
If I'm not pregnant this cycle and even this timing hasn't worked - what would you recommend? E4D? Or E4D + Bd at OPK? I've been thinking about trying to get my hands on Clomid but is this advised if my cycles are generally regular (ovulation typically CD14-17) ? Please help! it's only as i sit here crying about my messed up sway I realize how I am not ready to just leave it up to fate as i thought yesterday.

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, I would have suggested trying O-1 and then e4d before going to e4d plus one more at positive OPK but it's done now. You can still get a girl that way and our results with 2 attempts are not much worse than 1 (it's three attempts that has been uber boy friendly)

Can you explain what you mean by "peak and then peak more a day later" please?

What to do next is at your discretion really though. For best chance of pink I'd have had you try at least a couple months on straight e4d before going to the e4d plus one, but it's not the dreaded three attempts at any rate.

Please don't cry about a messed up sway - that is really not a big deal.

[Sallystutt]

Thank you Atomic ❤️ That really does help.

I thought I had my darkest OPK at CD14, the lines started to get a little lighter and then just over 24 hours later I got what was a true 'peak' a blazing OPK. I convinced myself to BD again after this one because longer cut offs haven't worked for me.

Having this scare really reiterates how important giving this my all is so I will definitely try E4D next cycle if I can. Would you suggest clomid or myo-inositol?

I've noticed I'm getting bad cramping a week before AF and more spotting than usual after AF for a few days... my gyno says it's fine but if you have any insight to what could cause this please let me know! Sorry a little random!

Thank you again x

[atomic sagebrush]

You don't measure from your darkest OPK though. There is no such thing as "peak" the way the apps describe it (peak darkness). What is called peak, and has been called peak since the invention of natural family planning method, is a period of time that the OPK test line is as dark or darker than the test line. The "darkest OPK" is meaningless and for some reason the apps have seized upon this meaningless designation and told everyone using the apps that they are in some way important when they aren't.

I want you to have your attempt at the first positive OPK. Not the darkest. So if that's why you're concerned, because you had a pos OPK and then got a darker one later on, then please don't worry about that.

It's not unusual to see changes in your cycle with swaying. How long is the spotting going on. Was this just this cycle or ongoing?

I always recommend Clomid for pink swayers if they can get it. It doesn't matter if your cycle is regular or not. Myoinositol depends on circumstances. Do you have moderate to severe PCOS, or more than 30-50 lbs to spare?

[Sallystutt]

Wow that's really interesting! Mindblown...I feel like I've missed this and just assumed (going by apps and BDM book).. I've been trying for 6/7 months with 1 attempt 2 or three days before darkest opk. but i guess my cut off was Maybe not as long as i thought...

But worrying too as i had my first attempt one day before the first positive and then 2 days later at the darkest one another attempt...I know timing is said not to sway but does this mean my odds are bad? Have I inadvertently swayed boy? Diet is not perfect but it's ok, I will improve it though. And add exercise.

I can order clomid online so i will definitely do that as soon as I know I'm not pregnant this cycle (i hope I'm not at this point).

No diagnosed PCOS and my BMI is healthy, i probably have about 10lbs to lose.

Thanks so Atomic you don't know how much i appreciate your help!

[Sallystutt]

43181

I think I had my first positive at CD14...Bd the night before and again the evening of CD15 ��

[Sallystutt]

43182

First BD Cd13 10pm
first positive (equal lines CD14) 2pm after which the line started getting lighter...then afternoon of CD 15 it starts getting darker again before getting darkest that evening.
second BD evening of CD15 (after getting what i thought was 'peak' opk around 4pm)

Is that normal for the lines to be equal, then get lighter then get darker again? I'm Sorry for all the questions, I feel so silly I've been reading them wrong all this time.

I'm sort of hoping I'm not pregnant this cycle because I'm worried about the two attempts right around ovulation...if I'm not pregnant i plan on buying a package or a personal plan here.
But also if I'm not pregnant then that's 6+ months of trying even with multiple attempts and nada :/

I'm a natural worrier! First worrying I've messed uo my sway then worrying I'm having trouble getting pregnant at all! With my first DS it took about 5 months but i was BDing tonnes and using pre seed etc.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yep, unfortunately for us all (even me since I now have to spend a lot of time explaining this), the apps and BDM (which is garbage) have really screwed up a lot of women's chances of conception, waiting around for some "darkest" OPK that may never even come.

??? So you were having your attempt 3 days before darkest OPK?? Was it even positive at that time?

It is very likely you only still had one attempt. If you ovulated sooner after the first pos OPK, you would have been in only with the one attempt (which would have fertilized the egg). If you ovulated later, the sperm from the first attempt was likely dead leaving only the second shot to fertilize the egg. This is very likely just one attempt.

[atomic sagebrush]

You did not have two attempts "right around ovulation" in the way you're thinking of it. The truth is, the vast majority of all conceptions HAPPEN right around ovulation because that's the only way you can conceive. Sperm does not live (at least, with the ability to fertilize an egg) anywhere near as long as some people claim it does. Most pregnancies are from O-1 and O-2, with a small percent early on O day, and an even smaller percent O-3. There are NOT these gobs of pregnancies that come from very long cutoffs, it just isn't true. And like I already explained, depending on when the egg dropped, that was very likely just one attempt anyway.

Please don't feel silly. It is the fault of the people who have ignored decades of research into how OPK work and tried to make them mean some other thing that has never been true at all.

All the OPK do is measure the concentration of hormones in your urine. They don't tell you the hormones in your blood, and they don't tell you if they have ovulated or not. What the hormones do is send a signal to your body to ovulate at some point, and then your body decides to do that on its own timeline. Once that signal is received, you can ovulate even if the test stays positive for some time after, or not ovulate yet even though the test has gone to negative. The amount of hormone in your urine is NOT related directly to the amount in your blood (because your urine can be all sorts of diluted even if you don't think you drank much water) and the darkness of your test does not mean anything.

So yes, you can absolutely have a positive test, that then appears to go negative, and then back to positive. All this likely means is that one of your batches of urine was more dilute than the other two.

[Sallystutt]

thank you Atomic, I really hope you're right and it was just the one attempt! Literally every friend i have who has a girl wasn't trying to get pregnant and of course the opposite for those with boys! I just know there's something to it. Not to mention how boy friendly my old diet was!

So regarding OPKs for next cycle, if I'm not pregnant this one. my first positive is just equal lines? Or one line slightly darker? Is it more helpful to use clear blue Digital ovulation tests with smileys? Or do you recommend I go straight for E4d?

[atomic sagebrush]

We see a lot of oopsies among our girl moms. Completely out of all proportion even though they're very much in the minority on the site.

Any test that's as dark or darker than control is positive. Be aware you can have false positives and false negatives (OPK are kinda lousy but they're all we have).

I don't think the smiley tests are any better. They can still be misleading. It's whatever you think will work better for you.

Whether or not to go for e4d is at your discretion. You've been trying for a while, but with possibly too long a cutoff at least to start with. I can see wanting to give it a couple months having one attempt at first pos OPK (not waiting for darkest, which can come too late!) But e4d is good too, getting very good results!

[Sallystutt]

43196 Hi atomic...so i did fall pregnant this cycle with two attempts... could you please take a look at my tests and make an estimation as to when you think i might have ovulated? Feeling happy to have a BFP but sad that it happened the one month out of seven that I had two attempts. Any insight is welcome 💕 thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

I can't really see your picture very clearly, for some reason it won't blow up to a larger size on the screen. The truth is even if I could see it clearly I would probably not be able to tell you when you Oed anyway.

If you want, you can give me a rundown of when the positives came and when your attempts were and I'll give you my opinion.

[Sallystutt]

thank you that's kind of you.

So first attempt in fertile window was CD13 (evening)
CD 14 OPK...test line darker than control line at 1:40pm. gradually gets lighter (though still slightly darker than control line)
CD15 line is definitely darker...'peak' dye stealer at 5:30pm. second attempt done at 10pm...EWCM during CD13 - 16.

I go back and forth between thinking its a 50/50 shot because even though there were two attempts it's taken 7 months of doing a 1 attempt 1 or 2 days before POSITIVE opk (2 or 3 days before 'peak'). So maybe my husband's sperm doesn't live so long...

To thinking I've definitely put myself more in the boy range because of 2 attempts + timing. Plus DH's diet was very good. Plus I Also stressed out a lot about these things...i actually thought there's no way I'll fall pregnant because of how stressed i was...

[Sallystutt]

God I wish I had my one attempt in between those two days. Years of thinking of swaying and I've totally half assed it thinking I wouldn't get a BFP anyway.

[atomic sagebrush]

Having attempts 1-2 days before a positive can be 4 or even more days before peak. it is unusual to get pregnant from that timing and does not mean your husband's sperm doesn't live very long.

Your first attempt was CD 13. This puts you ovulating CD 14 or even 15. If you Oed CD 14, you had one attempt because you would have ovulated already before the attempt 10pm on CD 15. If you Oed CD 15, that in MOST cases will still be one attempt, because the egg would have been fertilized by the CD 13 shot before the CD 15 would have capacitated. If you Oed CD 16 for some reason (possible, but not that likely) you ~maybe~ had two attempts but more likely the CD 13 shot would already have died by then, leaving you with one attempt.

It's always best to go in expecting 50-50 though. Just for the sake of your heart, keep in mind it can go either way, and then we hope you will get a happy surprise!

[Sallystutt]

thank you Atomic, this at least stops me beating myself up which I have been doing. It's strange going From being so excited to seeing a positive pregnancy test to being so down because you think you've messed up.

But is it even possible i ovulated on CD14 if that's when my first positive OPK was?

Probably a stupid question but does it matters than the egg can be fertilised after ovulation? Something to do with it taking 12 hours to travel down or something?
Is BDing every other day considered a technique for swaying boy?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes it is entirely possible to O the day of your first positive OPK. They can be false positives and false negatives, so it's possible to have your positive come "later" than it really is if you had a false negative the day before.

Yes, the egg can be fertilized after ovulation. Anywhere from 8-12 hours. Some say up o 24 but that is quite unlikely and is given more as a guideline for people who are trying to prevent pregnancy not achieve it.